Heroin/Opioid Thread - Serious Discussion Only

[theartofwar]

^ I just tried to go for a 2 day deal, and it turned into "one more night... oh im meeting up withthis new girl.. want to use tonight" etc etc - addiction will flip your brain upside down.

 

[Draigan]

I converted to a recreation user sorta, but the thing is that I do them often enough to get a fog brain. I do them like maybe 3x a week. I still use them when I am in emotional pain too. I just don't use them everyday or build any heavy habits.

The thing is.... even as a moderate user, they fuck me over. I get WD even after one day of use.

Maybe if I did them once a month on Weekends, but then what the fuck is the point. Lets face it, we use opiates to deal with emotional BS, and if you don't do it for that, its not really that much of a great experience IMO.

The other downfall about being a recreational user is that my body is not used to the opiate so its kinda like doing them for the first time again. I.e sick, headache, stuff like that.

 

[theartofwar]

I converted to a recreation user sorta, but the thing is that I do them often enough to get a fog brain. I do them like maybe 3x a week. I still use them when I am in emotional pain too. I just don't use them everyday or build any heavy habits.

The thing is.... even as a moderate user, they fuck me over. I get WD even after one day of use.

Maybe if I did them once a month on Weekends, but then what the fuck is the point. Lets face it, we use opiates to deal with emotional BS, and if you don't do it for that, its not really that much of a great experience IMO.

The other downfall about being a recreational user is that my body is not used to the opiate so its kinda like doing them for the first time again. I.e sick, headache, stuff like that.

I always use for emotional reasons - That's really odd you mentioned the headaches, day after yeah? It's been so long that my tolerance was low enough I could use and actually feel something like a side affect the day after lol .

 

[Draigan]

I usually get head aches when I am on them if I do get one. The day after for me is shakes cold depression. Codeine is amazing!! Takes away those symptoms and tapering off codeine is easy as pie.

Its weird, if I do oxy 3 days is a row, the 3rd day is such an amazing high, if I can get enough to get high, ha! But day one and 2 are not so amazing usually.

I think its because I do such a huge ammount after not taking them. I might go a week with out oxy and then just out of the blue do 140 mg. Its fucked, my tolerance never goes down. It costs a fucking fortune to get high. The other day I did like 10 20's and didn't really feel anything.

Lol my poor friend is banging 2 30mg hydromorphs at a time and not feeling anything. He says it makes him a bit sleepy. Now thats a habit, damn...

 

[theartofwar]

I usually get head aches when I am on them if I do get one. The day after for me is shakes cold depression. Codeine is amazing!! Takes away those symptoms and tapering off codeine is easy as pie.

Its weird, if I do oxy 3 days is a row, the 3rd day is such an amazing high, if I can get enough to get high, ha! But day one and 2 are not so amazing usually.

I think its because I do such a huge ammount after not taking them. I might go a week with out oxy and then just out of the blue do 140 mg. Its fucked, my tolerance never goes down. It costs a fucking fortune to get high. The other day I did like 10 20's and didn't really feel anything.

Lol my poor friend is banging 2 30mg hydromorphs at a time and not feeling anything. He says it makes him a bit sleepy. Now thats a habit, damn...

bro I went from 10-12 80s to the H switch, then I was on 220mg of methadone - kicked that shit - stayed clean for about 3 months - now I can get so nicely jammed off of 30-50mg - it's made it so much more affordable, so far I can keep my use in line, im sure soon enough I'll be like fuck, i miss having that low tolerance again .

 

[Draigan]

10-12 80s holy shit how the fuck u afford that yo? I've heard of that kind of habit in rumors lol.

Its like an old story I hear every now and again. "I know somebody who does 10 oxies a day."

Im always like wowwwww lol.

Not only how did u afford it, but how u make sure it was always there?

 

[theartofwar]

I went thru 75k in about 4 months, switched to H then - im broke as shit now, I spent my last $ on more jams lol - believe it or not I used to make money and have a decent life at one point, gotta love being an addict.

 

[paranoid android]

Lol my poor friend is banging 2 30mg hydromorphs at a time and not feeling anything. He says it makes him a bit sleepy. Now thats a habit, damn...

Let me get this straight. Your friend is shooting 60mg's of hydromorphone in 1 shot and feeling basically nothing? Wow . That tolerance is beyond insane. I have never heard of anyone doing 60mg's of hydromorphone in 1 shot much less doing that much in 1 injection and still be able to live. I personally think that is alot worse then taking 10 80mg oxy's a day.

You have to remember that hydromorphone is alot more potent when given IV then oxy is. I mean wow that's insane is the only word i have for 60mg's of hydromorphone in a shot. I don't even know how much methadone he would need to cover him that would be a fuck of alot that's for sure. I pity your friend if he has that bad of a habit i really do.

 

[Hendrix Haze15]

Looks like I wont make it to 30 days I already have me relapse planned out

I'm just going to do it once though , even though Ive said that a hundred times before

ha thats what I said on Tuesday. I'm only going to get one bag and leave it at that. Well now its Thursday and I've ran threw 5 bags and don't wanna stop and jump back on the subs

 

[eon_blue]

I've become a recreational drug user since getting clean from dope...except that I won't touch any opiate with a mile long stick.

The whole "a drug is a drug is a drug" is bullshit, in my opinion. It's a blanket statement that doesn't apply as a general rule to everyone. It may be true as far as AA and our government is concerned, but when it comes to addiction, everyone has their drug of choice. For some, it might be stimulants/depressants alike, but for me it was opiates alone.

I've found that with heroin/opiates I have absolutely no control, and I've proven to myself through experience that I can keep everything else in check but them.

I actually haven't done any coke or meth in over a year, these days I roll every few months at a rave and drink with friends whenever the mood strikes.

Sucks about the opiates, but it's better than being the strung out, lying POS junkie that I used to be, that's for sure.

 

[eon_blue]

I honestly can't imagine what it is like for you guys suffering with IV addictions. PPT withdrawals are already so bad and that is orally with crappy bioavailability, couldn't imagine intense dope withdrawals from an IV habit.

I've gotten w/d's from both, and I can say that while the IV w/d's are worse overall, PPT w/d's aren't to be underestimated.

My first w/d experience was from PPT and it lasted nearly 10 days, the physical aspect that is. At least with IV heroin the worst is over after 4 or 5 days. But the pain is much more concentrated in that regard, so yeah it is a worse experience overall.

 

[InfamouzJ23]

I've been on the iv dope coaster for the past four years now and ive tried it all detox's, one month rehab, three month rehab and three months at a halfway house (still used), outpatient drug-testing rehab, on suboxone through physicians three times, and now, for the past year (last october 1st) I have been going to the methadone clince. Yes I have had a few relapses on top of the methadone and I am also prescribed xanax (2mg a day). So far, ive been doing really well......the longest ive been sober without rehab since I started the heroin roller coaster!!ONE DAY AT A TIME is the ONLY WAY that has gotten me through this. And I know that i dont want to be on methadone the rest of my life, but today, Im not gettin high

 

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

For some reason I'm not as susceptible to intense physical withdrawals. I've had the chills/sweats, runny nose and mild stomach and muscle pain but it is usually bearable.

I usually taper my H doses before ending a run and try to keep at least 3-7 days between multi-day benders.

What always gets me, though, is the depression and the psychological WDs.

 

[Draigan]

Let me get this straight. Your friend is shooting 60mg's of hydromorphone in 1 shot and feeling basically nothing? Wow . That tolerance is beyond insane. I have never heard of anyone doing 60mg's of hydromorphone in 1 shot much less doing that much in 1 injection and still be able to live. I personally think that is alot worse then taking 10 80mg oxy's a day.

You have to remember that hydromorphone is alot more potent when given IV then oxy is. I mean wow that's insane is the only word i have for 60mg's of hydromorphone in a shot. I don't even know how much methadone he would need to cover him that would be a fuck of alot that's for sure. I pity your friend if he has that bad of a habit i really do.

Yah lol. I pitty the fucker 2. He has unlimited access to hydromorph, and says to me that he pretty much can't get high anymore. He says he just gets sleepy sometime. I believe him 2, just cuz off all the hydromorph he has, and he isn't really proud of it either.

Nice to see you PA! I heard your a mod now man. W00t. Havn't seen you on msn lately. I been pretty busy the last 2 weeks, but I get my new place on the first and it has internet. Yippee. I'll be seeing u then my brother

I think its awesome your a mod now bro. Your fucking excellent for the job!

 

[Draigan]

I've become a recreational drug user since getting clean from dope...except that I won't touch any opiate with a mile long stick.

The whole "a drug is a drug is a drug" is bullshit, in my opinion. It's a blanket statement that doesn't apply as a general rule to everyone. It may be true as far as AA and our government is concerned, but when it comes to addiction, everyone has their drug of choice. For some, it might be stimulants/depressants alike, but for me it was opiates alone.

I've found that with heroin/opiates I have absolutely no control, and I've proven to myself through experience that I can keep everything else in check but them.

I actually haven't done any coke or meth in over a year, these days I roll every few months at a rave and drink with friends whenever the mood strikes.

Sucks about the opiates, but it's better than being the strung out, lying POS junkie that I used to be, that's for sure.

whats POS? piece of shit?

 

[eon_blue]

^^ you are correct sir

and I should clarify: I'm not saying all junkies are pieces of shit, just saying that I was one for sure, lol.

 

[QuasiStoned]

I honestly can't imagine what it is like for you guys suffering with IV addictions. PPT withdrawals are already so bad and that is orally with crappy bioavailability, couldn't imagine intense dope withdrawals from an IV habit.

I've gotten w/d's from both, and I can say that while the IV w/d's are worse overall, PPT w/d's aren't to be underestimated.

My first w/d experience was from PPT and it lasted nearly 10 days, the physical aspect that is. At least with IV heroin the worst is over after 4 or 5 days. But the pain is much more concentrated in that regard, so yeah it is a worse experience overall.

That's one thing I really hate about poppy tea withdrawals, it's going to be AT LEAST a week a before you start to feel that you have reached the turning point. It takes me about 3 days for me to even feel the withdrawals 100%. I find this problematic because it is so incredibly easy to lose your resolve and/or motivation when the withdrawal is such a long ordeal.

If the withdrawals were only about 3 days for the worst of it I think I might be able to stay strong and get to the other side easier. Then again, I dunno if I would be nearly as functional if the withdrawals were shorter but more severe. Although terrible and psychologically disturbing for me, I have never really let PPT withdrawals keep me out of work or keep me in bed all day but I dunno if I would feel that way if the withdrawals were shorter but more painful.

Whatever the case, I am a big fan of tapering. I tolerate the withdrawals for as long as I can, then take a small get well dose. Just enough to get me feeling normal, enough to allow me to sleep. It is so much better than facing them head on, I have terrifying memories where I foolishly allowed myself to run dry and left nothing to taper with *shudders*

 

[Dopamine_Cowboy]

^ I'm a big fan of tapering also. Gradually lowering my doses eliminates most of the physical WDs, and when I'm tempted to do more than my allotted amount of dope for that day I think back to the times when I ran out and had to quit cold turkey. That puts me back on track pretty quick.

Full-blown withdrawals would put me out of commission and that is something I really want to avoid.

 

[PetSMiLE]

'The Dark Side' of Suboxone treatment/doctors...

As many people who have had/have opiate problems in their lives know, Buprenorphine (Suboxone/Subutex) is an absolute godsend for many who want to get their lives back in order. For people who *really* are serious about quitting their opiate of choice, it is as close to a miracle drug that is available on the market today.

I know this first hand, even though the first time I got on it I merely used it as a way to fend off WD's/cravings in between full-agonist binges. Still, I will never forget the first time I took the drug... feeling like for the VERY FIRST time since getting hooked on opiates that I was neither high, nor in withdrawal whatsoever!!! This reminded my brain that it is possible for this to happen, well at least while on Suboxone. And for me, and many, Suboxone is much easier to get off of than its Methadone counterpart because of the fact it does not get an addict high. This is also why it really is only for those serious about getting off opiates altogether.

Now here is the ugly part. Just because it is a partial-agonist and does not get one that nice full-agonist high (a la Methadone), does not mean this is not a very strong drug. It has a ceiling effect at 32mg, and for an opiate tolerant person most can take copious amounts of the drug without getting sick at all--- as opposed to an opiate naive person who will vomit profusely taking any more than 3mg.... this should be a reminder as to how strong the drug actually is regardless of how 'non-high' the addict gets from it.

Unfortunately, I have found during my opiate recovery that Suboxone/Subutex doctors tend to take advantage of this. I say this because most prescribe *FAR* more of the drug than most addicts actually need... most addicts in truth could get the same "anti-withdrawal" effect from at most HALF of their initial prescribed dose.

I have seen so many people "get hooked" on a drug that doesn't even get them high. Yes it stabilizes them, and overall that is a very good thing... better than being stabilized on Methadone IMO... which everyone knows is much harder to get off of. But why prescribe 16mg, 24mg, and EVEN as much as the ceiling 32mg right off the bat? And for MONTHS at a time??

Most people who have the guts to question their doctor and DO NOT have the desire to be physically addicted to the buprenorphine in Suboxone will realize that they will get the EXACT SAME WD prevention/relief from 8mg as 16mgs+.... this is a fact IME!!!

I had the exact same habit as a close friend who listened to his doctor and started out taking 24mg per day... sure he got off of oxy/heroin but now almost 2 years later he is STILL on his doctor's tapering schedule. Meanwhile... I have a stockpile of the drug in case I need it at all in the future because I got by starting out with 8mg and it worked fine for me... I was down to 2mg (1/4 of an 8mg wafer) within a MONTH. I SWEAR TO CHRIST I AM NOT LYING.

It is ridiculously easy to taper down from Suboxone to the 2-4mg level.... jumping off from there to ZERO is much more difficult I will admit. But this final jump is THAT MUCH MORE difficult for those who allow themselves to be part of these multi-year tapering schedules because of how physically acclimated they become to the drug... regardless of how not-high they are getting!! For crying out loud at least Methadone users get the full-agonist effects (not so much later on but initially)!!

I find it very sad that many people are mislead by some doctors who either do not know what they are talking about-- probably just took some 6 week online course to gain a certification and know nothing about the drug in practice... or ever worse DO know what they are talking about and just operate this way to make people like my close friend slaves to their clinic... ensuring yet another long-time customer who puts THOUSANDS of dollars directly into their pockets .

Call my a cynic, but I hope everyone considering Suboxone treatment will heed my word... and AT LEAST TRY getting by on a lower dose (8mg or less). People need to understand how strong of a drug Suboxone is-- I feel the need to get the word out there before people waste their time and money on a program that ultimately will make it harder to get completely sober. I feel so strongly about this I practically feel like it should be a sticky thread cautioning everyone about all the ignorant/greedy doctors.

I know this is long but I hope anyone trying to get off opiates via the Suboxone/Subutex route has the patience to read the whole thing. You will most likely be thanking me... and I am so happy if I helped someone get clean sooner

 

[AllOverItPDX]

As many people who have had/have opiate problems in their lives know, Buprenorphine (Suboxone/Subutex) is an absolute godsend for many who want to get their lives back in order. For people who *really* are serious about quitting their opiate of choice, it is as close to a miracle drug that is available on the market today.

I know this first hand, even though the first time I got on it I merely used it as a way to fend off WD's/cravings in between full-agonist binges. Still, I will never forget the first time I took the drug... feeling like for the VERY FIRST time since getting hooked on opiates that I was neither high, nor in withdrawal whatsoever!!! This reminded my brain that it is possible for this to happen, well at least while on Suboxone. And for me, and many, Suboxone is much easier to get off of than its Methadone counterpart because of the fact it does not get an addict high. This is also why it really is only for those serious about getting off opiates altogether.

Now here is the ugly part. Just because it is a partial-agonist and does not get one that nice full-agonist high (a la Methadone), does not mean this is not a very strong drug. It has a ceiling effect at 32mg, and for an opiate tolerant person most can take copious amounts of the drug without getting sick at all--- as opposed to an opiate naive person who will vomit profusely taking any more than 3mg.... this should be a reminder as to how strong the drug actually is regardless of how 'non-high' the addict gets from it.

Unfortunately, I have found during my opiate recovery that Suboxone/Subutex doctors tend to take advantage of this. I say this because most prescribe *FAR* more of the drug than most addicts actually need... most addicts in truth could get the same "anti-withdrawal" effect from at most HALF of their initial prescribed dose.

I have seen so many people "get hooked" on a drug that doesn't even get them high. Yes it stabilizes them, and overall that is a very good thing... better than being stabilized on Methadone IMO... which everyone knows is much harder to get off of. But why prescribe 16mg, 24mg, and EVEN as much as the ceiling 32mg right off the bat? And for MONTHS at a time??

Most people who have the guts to question their doctor and DO NOT have the desire to be physically addicted to the buprenorphine in Suboxone will realize that they will get the EXACT SAME WD prevention/relief from 8mg as 16mgs+.... this is a fact IME!!!

I had the exact same habit as a close friend who listened to his doctor and started out taking 24mg per day... sure he got off of oxy/heroin but now almost 2 years later he is STILL on his doctor's tapering schedule. Meanwhile... I have a stockpile of the drug in case I need it at all in the future because I got by starting out with 8mg and it worked fine for me... I was down to 2mg (1/4 of an 8mg wafer) within a MONTH. I SWEAR TO CHRIST I AM NOT LYING.

It is ridiculously easy to taper down from Suboxone to the 2-4mg level.... jumping off from there to ZERO is much more difficult I will admit. But this final jump is THAT MUCH MORE difficult for those who allow themselves to be part of these multi-year tapering schedules because of how physically acclimated they become to the drug... regardless of how not-high they are getting!! For crying out loud at least Methadone users get the full-agonist effects (not so much later on but initially)!!

I find it very sad that many people are mislead by some doctors who either do not know what they are talking about-- probably just took some 6 week online course to gain a certification and know nothing about the drug in practice... or ever worse DO know what they are talking about and just operate this way to make people like my close friend slaves to their clinic... ensuring yet another long-time customer who puts THOUSANDS of dollars directly into their pockets .

Call my a cynic, but I hope everyone considering Suboxone treatment will heed my word... and AT LEAST TRY getting by on a lower dose (8mg or less). People need to understand how strong of a drug Suboxone is-- I feel the need to get the word out there before people waste their time and money on a program that ultimately will make it harder to get completely sober. I feel so strongly about this I practically feel like it should be a sticky thread cautioning everyone about all the ignorant/greedy doctors.

I know this is long but I hope anyone trying to get off opiates via the Suboxone/Subutex route has the patience to read the whole thing. You will most likely be thanking me... and I am so happy if I helped someone get clean sooner [/QUO

I definitely agree with you from ym experience that many opiate users only need 2-4mg to stop the withdrawal symptoms from a healthy opiate addiction. I was doing 3-4 80s a day and now take about 2mgs a day. The one thing that I have noticed being on low and high doses is that low doses of sub do not keep me from mentally wanting and obsessing over other opiates. But when I was on a minimum of 8mg a day I hardlt ever thought about using opiates. I have read other fellow bluelighters having the same experiences. So it really isn't a one-dose-works-for-everyone type of med.