A NEW Thought about Loperamide (not the same old debate)

[garuda]

If I am ever sick and the grocery store is the only dope spot, then I think it's worth a try.

If you're in a country where poppy seeds are sold I'd try to find a grocery that sells bulk poppy seed by the pound for cheap. If you get lucky and find ones with high opium residue your WD will be GONE with no debate.

Do a search here on poppy seed tea for more info.

 

[Too many doses]

It's not impossible.

Since you seem to have noticed that the study about polysorbate 80 coated loperamide was old, I expect you're aware of the study that showed that not only can a placebo have opioid-like analgesic effects, but that naloxone secretly co-administered BLOCKS those effects, which would strongly suggest that a psychological belief that something will work can induce physical changes (in this case it would appear to be increased endorphins.)

So with this train of thought opiate addicts in full wd could stop his sickness by thinking he took an opiate? This makes no scence scientifically as wd is caused by ceasing to use opiates and is an accepted medical condition.

 

[sixpartseven]

If you're in a country where poppy seeds are sold I'd try to find a grocery that sells bulk poppy seed by the pound for cheap. If you get lucky and find ones with high opium residue your WD will be GONE with no debate.

Do a search here on poppy seed tea for more info.

It would be better to use Loperamide, in my opinion, if you are trying to get clean.

It's suggested to not use an opiate that can get you high to taper or mitigate withdrawals. Because you can get high from them, the temptation to take enough to get high can be overwhelming, which is counterproductive to the persons goals.

It's like using heroin to quit heroin. It never works. Loperamide would be better because the high isn't enjoyable - if that person is in the group of people even able to get high from it - it eliminates withdrawal symptoms, is easy to taper with because the doses per pill are small and much easier to calculate than the dose you get from seeds or pods, and can be used semi-long-term.

If you are just looking to get high but can't find your opiate of choice, seeds or pods are the way to go. But if you are trying to get clean, I'd suggest Loperamide unless you have access to Suboxone or Methadone. Use this, taper down to as low of a dose as possible, then use Loperamide to finish it off.

 

[emjay]

So with this train of thought opiate addicts in full wd could stop his sickness by thinking he took an opiate? This makes no scence scientifically as wd is caused by ceasing to use opiates and is an accepted medical condition.

Two problems with that assumption. First, I never said the placebo effect is equally as strong. Second, it doesn't diminish the concept of withdrawal at all because, not only would it likely be too weak to completely prevent withdrawal... but then you also have the issue of making a user think he's taking an opiate when he's not... which isn't a frequent occurrence.

Another odd fact that I'm sure some people know that attests to the mind's power to trick itself. Heavy addicts can actually overdose just by shooting up in a new place, or somehow doing the drug under different circumstances. This is because the brain actually prepares itself for the dose ahead of time, and it's signaled psychologically by things like location and the ritual of shooting up...

 

[sixpartseven]

^ That is true, but I don't think that really says anything about Loperamide aiding withdrawal. People aren't taking the Loperamide in new places or different circumstances. They are just using it to aid withdrawal during their normal lives.

I know you aren't saying it isn't possible, and I'm not arguing with you, I'm just debating it. I do see a difference, so don't take this as me attacking you.

 

[emjay]

^ That is true, but I don't think that really says anything about Loperamide aiding withdrawal. People aren't taking the Loperamide in new places or different circumstances. They are just using it to aid withdrawal during their normal lives.

I know you aren't saying it isn't possible, and I'm not arguing with you, I'm just debating it. I do see a difference, so don't take this as me attacking you.

Don't worry, not seeing it as an attack.

I know it's actually kind of irrelevant to whether or not loperamide works, I just thought it was a good example of how strong the psychological factor can be regarding opioid use.

 

[Mystery Brew]

My question is off topic--but people were discussing it in this thread. but

what is a good dose of loperamide for a opiate tolerant person to relieve them of w/d?

 

[drug struggler]

^ I consider myself pretty tolerant (300mg+oxy/day) My recent experience was that 14-16mg's helped... But keep in mind this was a week after an oxy binge in which I was maintaining that week on 2mg suboxone/day... I ran out of the sub last sunday and subsequently started withdrawals. I swear that 14-16mg loperamide took away the chills and sweats, aches, sleeplessness, all that crap. That's just my recent experience, everyone's different.

 

[sarbanes]

I just wanted to add one thing, by getting the thread back on original topic. Who is to say the non-centrally acting antagonist (here, 3-methylnaltrexone), like loperamide, is not 100% non central? I'd rather endure a little constipation than endure induced WD. Even if it's just explosive stool, it still ain't pleasant (unless your into that type of thing). But in all seriousness, there is nothing quite like induced withdrawal. In just slightly greater than very low dose (1-3mg), I can get horrible WD from naltrexone. It's qualitatively different from normal WD. There is much more of this constant yawning with induced WD, than with natural. The only way to use opioids as a way of life, is to incorporate long term tapers into your regime (spend a year overall getting relatively clean).

 

[sixpartseven]

The only way to use opioids as a way of life, is to incorporate long term tapers into your regime (spend a year overall getting relatively clean).

That's a very good point.

I always see questions asking how to do a quick taper with whatever opiate, and I just want to say "there is no way you're going to make that happen." It took me 2 years, with the assistance of Suboxone and Loperamide, to taper down - and off - from my heroin habit.

I think quick tapers are can be successful, but for how long is the question that needs to be asked.