Opioids long term opioid dependancy --> decrease in intellect and memory?

[bingey]

^

It has been proven to impair cognitive functions with chronic use (especially when smoked or injected ) , i just read an article on it in this junky community magazine at my done maintenance center (the magazine is called mainline , unfortunately it's in dutch)

 

[Artificial Emotion]

I'd like to read this research because there is a lot of confusion on this issue. A lot of sources say the opposite so I don't know what to believe. I know it's a lot to ask, but could you pick this magazine up and write a reference to the research they are referring to?

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

It seems to me the OP is set in stone to find the answer he/she wants. Simply bad science.

I could be wrong, it seems like an honest and intelligent question...but it just seems like at first it was, "Hey you junkies, you've got dumber cuz of dope right?"

No!?

you did too you damn dopefiend, admit it.

Could be my personal bias in the other direction though. Personally I was more motivated and (possibly) a better worker/learner on the drugs. Now that im off and on bupe theres sometimes this "woe is me, who cares its all so gray" attitude that persists despite my obvious progress. (dropping from 6 mg to 1 mg in 12 months)

I know I mention my taper in alot of threads but im proud right now, plus I want people to know it is possible. (not a success story yet, but im comin)

 

[dopiate]

It seems to me the OP is set in stone to find the answer he/she wants. Simply bad science.

I could be wrong, it seems like an honest and intelligent question...but it just seems like at first it was, "Hey you junkies, you've got dumber cuz of dope right?"

No!?

you did too you damn dopefiend, admit it.

Could be my personal bias in the other direction though. Personally I was more motivated and (possibly) a better worker/learner on the drugs. Now that im off and on bupe theres sometimes this "woe is me, who cares its all so gray" attitude that persists despite my obvious progress. (dropping from 6 mg to 1 mg in 12 months)

I know I mention my taper in alot of threads but im proud right now, plus I want people to know it is possible. (not a success story yet, but im comin)

Great job man, i went from 32mg down to 2mg in 6 months. I was really impressed how different buprenorphine is when it comes to tapering.

I experienced very little w/d symptoms despite slight lethargy and when i got down into lower dosages i felt better. I blame my MORON doctor for putting me all the way up to 32mg.

I just kept getting the scripts and tapered myself down without his knowledge. I now only go see him twice a year in the summer.

Sorry, off topic. I'd like to see more on this though.

 

[PxDxA]

This is a very interesting topic and I would love to see more added to it. I wish that I could add to it but I am not that experienced around here nor do I know much about opiates, or the human brain, for that matter.

 

[tathra]

It seems to me the OP is set in stone to find the answer he/she wants. Simply bad science.

you're certainly biased. i had a hypothesis, so i'm trying to gather information to find out if its correct or incorrect. its looking as though the hypothesis is wrong, thus a new hypothesis can be formed after incorperating this knowledge.

thats how science works. you form a hypothesis and gather information through either polls or experiments, and then use the knowledge gained to either refine it or scrap it altogether and work on a new one. in this case, direct experimentation is not a possibility, so the only option was to take a poll and find out whether or not further research would be warranted. considering the little bit of good input i've recieved (most of these replies are just attacking the hypothesis, saying its wrong without providing anything useful), and since its looking as though its an incorrect hypothesis, it would be a wasted effort to experiment.

i could care less if the hypothesis is right or wrong since knowledge is gained either way, and i'd like for you to show me where i discount people's answers and call them lying, retarded junkies. \/

 

[OverDriven]

I actually really respect how you went about this thread.

Uh oh...watch out everyone...internet tough guy on the loose.

Removed offensive post -C.H.

 

[SmokeTrails]

o shit... the guns are coming out...

im in school right now... i have been shooting dope on and off the whole time ive been in school... my GPA is 3.85... i got a C... once... so i really dont see how heroin abuse could seriously effect memory... just my 2 cents

 

[tathra]

oh, something i had forgotten. opioids inhibit long-term potentiation of synapses (do a search on pubmed for "opiates ltp" or "morphine ltp"; this information is also available in plenty of other places). now as for whether or not this directly means that memory and intellect are degraded, thats what i'm trying to find out.

another point, this old thread also explains some of the effects of long-term opiate use, and how opiates arent totally nontoxic and harmless. there is plenty of information out there regarding the detrimental effects of opioids, so please dont go spewing that they're harmless and that no studies have shown any physiological changes etcetc.

 

[SmokeTrails]

i dont pretend to think opiates are harmless... every time i run for a few months and quit... thats proof enough for me that they have got to be somewhat harmful... i think it may differ subject to subject

lets look at it this way... i shot heroin and went to class every day... i did all my homework... read all the assigned reading... took all the tests... i did everything i was supposed to do... now yes... a few times i had to wake up early i reread my papers because i wanted to make sure i didnt retype sentences... i also had to make sure everything was somewhat legible... but in the end i've goten straight As

now take another addict... has no sense of responsibility... never gos to class... stays at home shooting dope all day... of corse they will 1) have horrible grades and 2) have memory loss... i barely remember the majority of my vacations.... because they have been spent geting so obnoxiously high that i myself dont even remember conversations i had hours before... but long term effects? none noticeable as of yet (although currently once i move back down to LA im going to head back into NA... fuck this shit... ive got to get on with my life)

if your actually seriously interested in this i think the only way would be to preform all those stupid asinine memory tests on a few 100 opiate addicts... but then how the fuck can you be sure how blasted they are while they are taking the test? id feel thats a variable that needs to be monitored as well...

IMO there are so many fucking veriables in this equation... it almost seems that its just a great thing to argue about for a few weeks... hell im down

(EDIT i feel like this may be the longest post ive ever mad)

 

[op8TOOLman]

I feel longterm use DOES atleast affect memory.My memory is shit nowdays.
31,male and been using for 6 years.Mostly pharms,oc,morphine,opana.
I was clean while I went through my 5 apprenticeship and made it very easy.
NOW,though I know my trade very well the small shit I should remember easily fails me.
Not to mention in my relationships.You want me to remember,I better write it down.
Intellect?
I'd say no.

 

[tathra]

Hippocampal long-term potentiation is reduced by chronic opiate treatment and can be restored by re-exposure to opiates.

its a very complex issue and there are a lot of factors involved, such as: is the person still using? how long since the last dose? which opioid was primarily used? etc
these lead to other questions, like: how long until an opiate-adapted brain re-adapts to work properly without opiates, if at all? are the physiological changes detrimental, or could the changes actually turn out positive? etc

i know the initial question is very general, but thats how knowledge starts, very general, and then becomes more and more refined as more information is aquired.

 

[jspun]

Didn't get to read other posts but. A study was done years ago that should that a dose of a narcotic (I think it was 30-60 mg codeine) improved recall of a list of information.Don't remember specifics. Also read another study that was looking at using verapamil to treat memory deficits in protracted abstinence syndrome. So the implication is that cognitive deficits of some sort were part of the constelation of symptoms that make up PAWS. I'll take the time to read other posts and study linked above when I find the time. After years of using straight opiates and then opiates and EtOH the most recent phase with EtOH seems to show the biggest neural deficits which leags me to believe that the EtOH is the substance to blame. t methadone clinics I think its the patients who seem mentating not up to par probably have benzos in their system if you uA'd them.

 

[the unknown]

Well while your on them it no doubt IMO decreases INTELLIGENCE among hundreds of other things like motor skills and CNS.

But long term i would say yes slightly to moderately
Benzodizepines too i would believe too be true and certainly 100% memory loss, gaps, etc

 

[Cane2theLeft]

o shit... the guns are coming out...

im in school right now... i have been shooting dope on and off the whole time ive been in school... my GPA is 3.85... i got a C... once... so i really dont see how heroin abuse could seriously effect memory... just my 2 cents

As the OP has iterated and reiterated, he is talking about long-term, heavy use.

You saying you did well in school while using tells us nothing and I suspect the duration of your use would not fit the criteria the OP laid out.

Furthermore, I wouldn't trust any individual to accurately be able to perceive all of the cognitive deficits potentially caused by extensive drug use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are lying or anything like that, just that it would be incredibly difficult for anyone to be able to perceive these things.

Also, you may be incredibly intelligent and school simply come easy to you while other people, no matter how hard they try, will never be able to match your scholastic accomplishments. Academic achievement is hardly an argument for the benignity of long-term opioid use/abuse.


_________________
OP- Interesting thread, I've been following it closely and I hope more is added to it.

 

[dopiate]

As the OP has iterated and reiterated, he is talking about long-term, heavy use.

You saying you did well in school while using tells us nothing and I suspect the duration of your use would not fit the criteria the OP laid out.

Furthermore, I wouldn't trust any individual to accurately be able to perceive all of the cognitive deficits potentially caused by extensive drug use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are lying or anything like that, just that it would be incredibly difficult for anyone to be able to perceive these things.

Also, you may be incredibly intelligent and school simply come easy to you while other people, no matter how hard they try, will never be able to match your scholastic accomplishments. Academic achievement is hardly an argument for the benignity of long-term opioid use/abuse.

_________________
OP- Interesting thread, I've been following it closely and I hope more is added to it.

Hardly an argument? In what circumstances are your cognitive skills more thoroughly tested?

I also don't believe the SmokeTrails' situation applies to the subject at all, a couple years of on and off H use is hardly heavy and prolonged.

No matter what there is no way you can test someone, have them heavily abuse opiates for five years and then test them again. This has been stated already, i would love to see some concrete info on this but alas i think it's not feasible.

Edit: Captain H, you removed my post?? Haha, i was completely joking man.

 

[Deleted member 80237]

If I correctly interpreted the criteria, then I qualify. 5-6 years use.

As noted by Cane2theLeft, no one can be trusted to 100% objectively evaluate their own cognitive functioning over an extended period. Changes can be so gradual that they are almost imperceptible. That said, I have certainly noticed many changes since I began using. However, I really do believe that most of the negative ones are the result of the lifestyle or the use of other substances, specifically cannabis and alcohol. When under the influence of opiates at a dose that I consider "functional" - not nodding - I often feel that my ability to recall information and reason is increased. My attention span is unquestionably longer, enabling me to commit to problem-solving for a longer period. Having said that, I also feel that my memory is, on the whole, decreased since I began using. However, there's just no way to tell what substance might be responsible for this, if any. I suffered a very traumatic skull injury about a year ago as well, so who can say?

Ultimately, I do not believe that my overall intellectual capacity has been adversely affected. However, my ability to recall information may have decreased somewhat.

Excellent thread. I'll continue to follow it and look forward to hearing what other users have to say.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Hardly an argument? In what circumstances are your cognitive skills more thoroughly tested?

I'm not saying cognitive skills aren't tested through formal education, just that there is far too much variability to draw conclusions based on that evidence alone. Some people have no trouble recalling the information they glean from their classes, while others have to put forth a tremendous amount of effort to achieve the same outcome.

 

[SmokeTrails]

true maybe i dont qualify for long term heavy use... ive never done dope for 5 years straight... id get a year and then end up detoxing... be clear for a few months... then run again... on and off like that for 5ish years... so just disregard my info then

on another note... school is incredibly easy... and its hard for me to believe that anyone could manage to not pass

 

[JayKay]

euphoria = Good for productivity - especially compared to the baseline of a person who is in pain.


withdrawals = bad for productivity

nodding out = bad for productivity lol

have not noticed any effect on actual generalized intelligence or memory, only differences in productivity.