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Codeine Extraction

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^ How well do the CO codeine + ibuprofen tablets dissolve? As easy as the codeine + APAP formulation?

From memory they dissolved a lot easier than nurofen plus but not nearly as quickly as the good old C.O. pain tablets. I used the same water/filter etc that I use with the C.O. pain tablets and where I normally get a clear solution first filter, the codeine+ibuprofen gave a slightly milky solution. Sorry I can't be too specific. I'll see if I can get some more this weekend, give it another shot and actually pay attention this time :)
 
^ I commend your efforts to satisfy my curiosity. :D

Are the CO ibu + codeine very popular? I haven't seen them around anywhere but I haven't really been looking I'll admit.
 
^ I commend your efforts to satisfy my curiosity. :D

Are the CO ibu + codeine very popular? I haven't seen them around anywhere but I haven't really been looking I'll admit.

^^ I think they've only been on the market for a month or so. I've only seen them in one chemist so far and would have completely missed them if the pharmacist hadn't recommended them as a cheaper option to P+ :D
 
While P+ is cheaper than N+ the tablets are significantly larger, maybe why you need so much water? I'd usually use about 100ml for 24x C.O. pain tablets. Hate to recommend specific brands however the new C.O. codeine + ibuprofen are cheaper than P+ and smaller.

Never used the CO tabs but might give it a go. Not using this amount of water because I need to, only because of the reason I stated above ie if you lose x amount of water when using 50ml, you'll lose 5 times more codeine than if you use 250ml water for the same process.

EDIT: Actually, just found this post: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=5431785&postcount=177
Apparently the more water you use, the more paracetamol/ibuprofen will dissolve, and you only need a small amount of water to dissolve the codeine. So I guess a smaller amount water is better; I just have to be careful not to lose any! :)
 
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Found a new brand of paracetamol and codeine today - Pharmacy Choice. Not sure if these are the same as the Chemists' Own brand? The chemist I got them from was not a chain store and did not stock the Chemists' Own.

The ingredients are listed as:

Actives-
Paracetamol 500mg
Codeine Phosphate 10mg

Some other ingredients-
Cellulose – microcrystalline, Croscarmellose sodium, Magnesium stearate, Povidone, Stearic
acid, Pregelatinised maize starch, Crospovidone.


They crush up very easily, don't seem to have as much binder as Panafen Plus. Dissolve easily and filtering gives a slightly cloudy solution. First time I've tried paracetamol tablets, other times it has been ibuprofen. I wonder how they'll go...

Images, sorry for bad quality, camera on my phone is shocking:

NSFW:
image036m.jpg


NSFW:
image037v.jpg
 
^^ I've never seen that brand before, and I thought I'd tried them all. I see you bought caplets, they suck. Get tablets. The chemists own tablets have C/O stamped on them. No need to crush them, I use cold water to disolve, and then put it in 3 coffee filters in the fridge for an hour or two.
 
I've found the caplets are really hard to dissolve, every time I've used them I've had to crush them beforehand, whereas you can just leave the tablets in water for five minutes.
 
I think we've ascertained that the Chemist's Own and Amcal brands are the same, these seem to be a different shape and don't filter to clear so perhaps they're different.
 
I've used Pharmacy Choice a few times, I can't remember how well they dissolve... it's either Amcal or Pharmacy Choice that dissolve pretty well with no crushing, I can't recall which one.
 
^ How well do the CO codeine + ibuprofen tablets dissolve? As easy as the codeine + APAP formulation?

Hey mr blonde, I did another cwe on the c.o. codeine +ibuprofen tablets on the weekend. I was wrong about the size, they are all but identical to the P+ in size, no fancy logo on the tablets but a score on one side. They dissolved fine without crushing when left in water for 15 minutes. Same as my first test they filtered to an opaque white solution rather than the clear I get with the paracetamol + codeine ones.

Hope this helps,

Stay safe kids! :)
 
There seems to have been some speculation that a testing facility may exist somewhere in Aus where samples of extracted product could be legally analysed. I'm certain that's not the case.

At risk of yet again sounding like a preacher, I wish to remind that extracting codeine from OTC products could be considered manufacture of a schedule 8 drug. Any product containing codeine only is classified as schedule 8 in Australia.

Also, a small amount of acetaminophen or ibuprofen present should not be of concern unless large amounts of the extracted product are ingested. And that usually means something other than occasional use. Having seen a few users go down hard from codeine addiction over the years, I strongly advise against finding an ally in this drug.

BL has guidelines against discussing most aspects of drug manufacture. In establishing the merits and disadvantages of discourse on the synth/extraction of different drugs, IMO, it could be argued that presenting details of a MDMA synth may well carry less likelihood of potential tragedy from the drug itself than discussing simple extractions of a highly addictive and easily available drug. So, while I recommend high dose codeine users avoid consuming large amounts of acetaminophen or ibuprofen, I won't participate in future discussion on codeine extractions, and I'm not prepared to offer suggestions on improving yields. The processes are basic, the solubility data easy to obtain. If you need to ask, you need to study up a bit.

In the interests of Harm Reduction, I'm prepared to summarise what I could find on reagent testing for acetaminophen and ibuprofen and mention a couple of other tests that might be helpful. Excessive use of acetaminophen can lead to serious liver damage, (see this post for an explanation) so I will mention a test for paracetamol which should provide a means of evaluating whether acetaminophen is present in an extract. While high intake of ibuprofen is also of concern, there doesn’t seem to be a reagent test for this (that I could find) that doesn’t also produce colour from reaction with codeine. One (Marquis) may be usable, but it would depend on the variation of colour each drug produced.

Reagents

Ferric Chloride solution: 1.7g of the hemihydrate dissolved in 20ml water. Reacts with phenols and will produce a yellow-green coloured product upon reaction with acetaminophen. Codeine shouldn't produce a colour as it contains no phenol group (but morphine does, and is known to react). Note; the cut-off value (detection limit) doesn’t seem to be easy to find, so this first needs to be established.

Ferric Chloride is toxic, corrosive, and will produce burns on contact with skin. Inhalation or ingestion of relatively small amounts can produce iron poisoning which is damaging to organs, especially the liver. Larger quantities can result in death. Ferric Chloride MSDS. However, FeCl3 can be used safely if common sense is employed. I was etching circuit boards with it at a young age with no problems.

Marquis Reagent: Marquis turns a violet colour with codeine and a brown colour at room temperatures with ibuprofen. As mentioned, it's hard to know whether small amounts of ibuprofen in a codeine extract could be identified by colour variation, at least with the eye.

Melting Point Tests

A melting point apparatus is best if available. Alternatively, a borosilicate glass (pyrex) test tube can be used with a thermometer and heat source (metho burner will suffice). In the case of the latter, a sample is placed in the tube with the thermometer and heated until the sample melts. The temperature variation over which melting occurs (from solid to liquid) is the melting point range. Even small amounts of acetaminophen and ibuprofen present would be expected to decrease the melting point of codeine phosphate.

Codeine phosphate melts at 220-235 deg C with some decomposition

Acetaminophen melts at 169-170.5 deg C

Ibuprofen 75-77 deg C

Thin Layer Chromatography

A really good method of identifying the presence of more than one drug is to use TLC. Descriptions of the process can be found online.

IMPORTANT: While a low scaled CWE may be performed in a kitchen without much risk of serious contamination, reagents should never be prepared or used in such environments. Many reagents contain very toxic chemicals, and must never be stored with, or used around areas where food is prepared. Standard safety; always wear gloves and eye protection etc when using any analytical reagent, including Marquis, Mandelin, Mecke, Simons etc.
 
i finally did it... a crystal clear CWE!

Which method did you use? Mine always end up fairly cloudy, even if I use two layers of a tight business shirt and layer some tissues on top.

Also, when using coffee filters you're supposed to make them damp beforehand so that none of your codeine is absorbed into the filter itself aren't you?
 
44 AC&C's... minimal caffeine effects
filtered twce with a coffee filter
started with 60 deg. celsius water then i rapidly chilled it in a ice/salt bath
in terms of effects it was on par with a few perc's
 
Having seen a few users go down hard from codeine addiction over the years, I strongly advise against finding an ally in this drug.

That is true.

... it could be argued that presenting details of a MDMA synth may well carry less likelihood of potential tragedy from the drug itself than discussing simple extractions of a highly addictive and easily available drug. So, while I recommend high dose codeine users avoid consuming large amounts of acetaminophen or ibuprofen, I won't participate in future discussion on codeine extractions, and I'm not prepared to offer suggestions on improving yields. The processes are basic, the solubility data easy to obtain. If you need to ask, you need to study up a bit.

I guess it's a call on harm reduction - what is likely to cause more harm, uninformed/careless users who damage themselves with excess paracetamol/ibuprofen or users who become addicted to codeine extracted from OTC products?

The choice to take a drug should be made in light of all the available information. In this case, yes, the information is readily available and the process is simple. I agree that most (if not all) of the questions asked about CWE have been answered, but there are questions that haven't been, and if answering these questions helps HR then I feel that they should be answered.


From a legal standpoint though, you are absolutely correct in saying that performing a CWE could be considered manufacture of a schedule 8 drug and from this angle, any information on CWE could be considered enabling. I guess providing information on a dangerous pill could save someones life, but also be considered enabling from a legal viewpoint, so it's another judgement call :) What do you do in this situation?

mangs said:
whats the best place to get cheap coffee filters?
Supermarkets have them, they are pretty cheap.
 
Which method did you use? Mine always end up fairly cloudy, even if I use two layers of a tight business shirt and layer some tissues on top.

Also, when using coffee filters you're supposed to make them damp beforehand so that none of your codeine is absorbed into the filter itself aren't you?

yes i always do this, i also squeeze the filter after each extraction to get the last little bit out, i only use about 100ml's for 44 acc's so every drop counts!
 
The choice to take a drug should be made in light of all the available information. In this case, yes, the information is readily available and the process is simple. I agree that most (if not all) of the questions asked about CWE have been answered, but there are questions that haven't been, and if answering these questions helps HR then I feel that they should be answered.

Thus my attempts to find a possible method to evaluate an end product.
 
Am I doing it right?

I've done it once before and i'm doing it atm with 36 N+ tablets.

It was with initially around 74 ml of water, dissolved the tablets then put them in the freezer, took them out the freezer, noticed the water was more pasty. Then put some of the water in a coffee filter and let it filter out.

What I've noticed is that my final product has ALOT less water than initially, maybe 1/4. The top of the filter has a moist white gluggy solution, im assume its mostly binder and ibuprofen.

i've been squeesing all of the moisture out of the coffee filter which leaves a moist powder up the top, not the best idea I know but I'm not sure if im getting all the codeine the first time.

The end result is quite cloudy due to the nurofen and squeezing.

So is it normally to finish with a fair bit less water than you started with? and do you get the white stuff at the top of your filter?
 

...
At risk of yet again sounding like a preacher, I wish to remind that extracting codeine from OTC products could be considered manufacture of a schedule 8 drug. Any product containing codeine only is classified as schedule 8 in Australia....

Having seen a few users go down hard from codeine addiction over the years, I strongly advise against finding an ally in this drug....

The processes are basic, the solubility data easy to obtain. If you need to ask, you need to study up a bit.
...

Good points p_d! I hope everyone keeps these in mind.

BL has so many CWE and codeine threads, most with 30+ pages, and most the same questions being asked over and over again. I know Mr Blonde wrote a quick guide but it seems few people are reading through the existing material.

^^ When using coffee filters I suggest filtering through cloth first to remove most of the binders/ibuprofen/paracetamol, and then filtering through the paper. Otherwise you will have to change coffee filters over and over again and you'll be at it for hours.
 
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