Psychedelics and Social Alienation

[spaceyourbass]

I was too in a superficial way. But the desire for something more, chasing "something" brought me to psychedelics. Once i tripped there was no going back, sure i had more fun before the trips, but the trips showed me a higher level of life that i couldn't ignore. There were times when i felt alienated where i wished i could go back and tried...all in futility, the desire for more and the desire to trip returned, which couldn't and wouldn't be suppressed anymore. It's like trying to make a river flow the other way, it's a one way journey, the only place to go is further.

Not everyone who is like I described is superficial. Some people have to put food on the table and don't have the luxury of tripping. Then you got folks who honestly can't stand to be so detatched from reality. That's what you're doing...experiencing a new reality for yourself while the rest of the world is in the same old...reality. All I'm saying is tripping is not for everyone.

 

[PepperSocks]

Im very happy to read this, and to know other people have gone through the same similar experience.

Few days ago i tripped so hard that i believe from your knowledge of understanding.. i've just reached stage 2.. i felt so alienated, a loner.. i felt like i'll never beable to interact with people.. but. Thinking about what you said and where im at now.. it seems i've reached a point of been a 'new' person and i just have to build from that over time.

I know the feeling, the few days after a hard trip are even more disconnected than usual. I think i need to make a correction to what I wrote. Stage 2 seems to be the long one, the one that cannot be sped up but only ridden out, it's the stage where you discover the "new you", and the comfort of being the new you builds ever so slowly. The 3rd stage is just BEING the "new you" and making new social connections. The rest of your life is stage 3 if that makes any sense.

I'm gonna compare this to puberty. The first part of puberty is giddy and fun, you notice girls' boobies! you become aware of higher feelings of pleasure. Stage 2 is the whole identity crisis part of puberty, "coming into your own" and all that shitty awkwardness. Stage 3 is being comfortable with you as you will be for the rest of your life.

I love how this is coming out into the open and being understood, i've had these thoughts for so long, it's so nice to see we're not alone in this

 

[Headspace]

Thanks for all the good responses, it is nice to know that I am not the only person to experience these problems. I just feel like its going to be alot of effort to get into a good state of mind however ultimately when I do I will be a better person for it. I have a problem with flipping into my own internal thought narration during social situations and find myself missing things that are said, usually this would never happen unless I was alone without anything to hold my attention. I also had some weird moments where everything suddenly feels very surreal and superficial. Today at work I got really annoyed with how phoney and overconfident everyone was being (obviously I didn't show it), this previously didn't bother me. I don't know if i'm annoyed because I see them differently or annoyed because simply didn't realise what phoney seeming people they were. However I am more positive now than before.

 

[Roger&Me]

^ ^
The red pill? Or the blue pill? The choice is yours...

I would just take them both and trip balls.

 

[walshd55]

I know the feeling, the few days after a hard trip are even more disconnected than usual. I think i need to make a correction to what I wrote. Stage 2 seems to be the long one, the one that cannot be sped up but only ridden out, it's the stage where you discover the "new you", and the comfort of being the new you builds ever so slowly. The 3rd stage is just BEING the "new you" and making new social connections. The rest of your life is stage 3 if that makes any sense.

I'm gonna compare this to puberty. The first part of puberty is giddy and fun, you notice girls' boobies! you become aware of higher feelings of pleasure. Stage 2 is the whole identity crisis part of puberty, "coming into your own" and all that shitty awkwardness. Stage 3 is being comfortable with you as you will be for the rest of your life.

I love how this is coming out into the open and being understood, i've had these thoughts for so long, it's so nice to see we're not alone in this

Thank god for this thread...The SAME EXACT thing has been happening to me...I've become hyper aware of social games and ego manipulation and at first it was just really cool...Then it made me alienated and I've been diagnosed with social anxiety but since then I feel like I'm entering into the third stage where ego games and the desire for attention are no longer important to me and because of it I can rise above it--via ubermensch lol--its all about accepting your difference and sense of well being and then stepping into your new shoes...You just need to break them in....

 

[PepperSocks]

Thanks for all the good responses, it is nice to know that I am not the only person to experience these problems. I just feel like its going to be alot of effort to get into a good state of mind however ultimately when I do I will be a better person for it. I have a problem with flipping into my own internal thought narration during social situations and find myself missing things that are said, usually this would never happen unless I was alone without anything to hold my attention. I also had some weird moments where everything suddenly feels very surreal and superficial. Today at work I got really annoyed with how phoney and overconfident everyone was being (obviously I didn't show it), this previously didn't bother me. I don't know if i'm annoyed because I see them differently or annoyed because simply didn't realise what phoney seeming people they were. However I am more positive now than before.

I frequently of zone out in conversations, it happens when i'm thinking about something important and the conversation just isn't holding my attention, it's a weird one, don't know how to help you there, i still have that sometimes, it's natural i think, everyone does it when they've got stuff to think about.
Being aware of people's phoneyness is being aware of a part of reality that you weren't aware of before. Interactions with these people will crumble, their phoneyness is so aggravating that you are now no longer compatible with them, you're on a higher level of awareness.
When this first started happening to me, i became aware of all these previously unaware things but my daily state of mind was very positive, i became comfortable spending time on my own, and had a greatly increased self-awareness and self-acceptance. The problem is the rest of the world is still stuck in the ego driven phoneyness, they can't just let their guard down and be themselves, aware of and accepting of themselves for who they are.
I get the feeling your job is in sales. This field is full of these people. There is no way in hell i would ever be able to work in sales, no way. My best advice to you is find a new job with the type of people who are "thinkers", i've hated every job i've ever had because all my previous jobs were with blue collar red-necks who had no self-reflective peace in them at all. My current job is in a university lab and absolutely love it. The people are so open and kind, they're reflective, peaceful, nice, smart people. A good move for you would likely be to find a new line of work with like-minded people. I highly doubt if the people in my lab are into psychedelics and i'm not going to ask but I'm very compatible with their personalities, you just need to find the right job with the right people.

 

[RhythmSpring]

There definitely is a good portion of self-reflective blue collar people. But they are not redneck construction workers, that's for sure.

Anyway, being aware of ego games and phoneyness in others (as well as yourself) means you're on the right path. It can be tormenting when you hold onto these views and allow yourself to get angry about them. It can make you anxious and paranoid. The next step, then, is not to ignore the phoneyness to be happy again, but to accept it all and transcend it by having deeper personal priorities. You know when I learned this? Like last month. Haha.

 

[spaceyourbass]

I find many things odd but like someone else said in this thread, once you have seen the light, you just can't ignore it. Have you seen the light, I am sure you have as it is as concrete as the oddness in your speculations.

You do know that she won the lawsuit and got one of the largest sums of money ever from a plagiarism-type lawsuit, right? And yes, I've probably tripped more than alot of folks who do it recreationally. My first time with acid I was 13. I'm just playing the harm reduction card and telling the truth, that 'the light' is not good for everyone. I introduced a lot of people to AMT in highschool and really regret it. Some dudes couldn't handle it and were a lot less happy/productive after doing the AMT and then shrooms and LSD. Others would still talk about the good times to this day if we saw each other. Still, there's different sides to everything. Just keepin it real homey

 

[sjacobn]

Wow I can totally relate to this! Lately it seems that everyone around me is so fake and superficial even though they are acting the exact same way as they always have. It's weird and kind of unexplainable to friends/family, I just get so irritated by the way they act and find myself preferring to be alone. It really seems to me that most people act out a personality and it isn't who they truly are. It's incredibly hard to explain and when I try to explain it to people I usually just get blank stares. I'm not sure if this is exactly what your feeling, but I know that I didn't feel this way before I started to use psychedelics. So in other words - Psychedelics have made me feel socially alienated as well.

 

[France]

Great thread, I'll post a reply soon when I've had the chance to read it over.

*edit: After reading this thread, I have but one thing to add;

Don't be quick to judge everyone as superficial scum. There is good in everyone, even if you can't see it.

Remember, most of us have been brought up to think a certain way. Especially in social situations, we always try to win others over. We try to buy fancy things to impress the opposite sex. We try to look a certain way, act a certain way to fit in etc...

Assuming you do work in retial/sales, let me speak from experience. Those people at your job have to act that way, they have no choice. If you don't follow suit it will seem that you're not "Trying your best" , not "enthusiastic enough" etc...

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

Headspace, You've just started a long, difficult, uplifting, liberating journey, and once you start it's not so easy to go back. I had my first trip 5 years ago, and over time my friendships just slowly melted away, I am alienated but I am just starting to re-construct my social identity like Xorkoth's experience.

There were times where I thought "If i stop tripping I can go back" and i would try, I would try to be normal, but once you've seen the light you can't ignore it. I would get a profound drive to trip again that I decided I wouldn't and couldn't suppress anymore. So congrats you've embarked on what will likely be the most beneficial path of you're life. The first phase was bliss, feeling free from the previous state of bondage. The second stage was alienation, realizing that i didn't connect with anyone anymore, i lost my friends, it's lonely. The third stage is discovering your new social self. Becoming comfortable with the "new you". This seems to come only with time, you can't try to speed this one up, just ride it out, you'll make it. I'm just at the transition between 2 and 3, and it's a great lift off the shoulders, but it took 5 years of heavy social anxiety/social disconnection. These are the challenges that will make you a better person, the "hero's test".

The timeframes are different for every person, I'm just communicating my journey. You're in for a one hell of an adventure and in the end you wouldn't have it any other way

Good post, insightful. I've been through those stages. To be honest, psychedelics really tuned me on to the weirder aspects of myself, the strange and ummmm, for lack of a better word, crazy. It was incredibly hard to reconcile that with classic group of friends, hell bent on drinking and party. And I was alienated. And I found a smaller group of people who shared in the love of my wacky quirks. Some might call them hippies. And then I return to my old friends a champion with so much charisma and confidence. And they welcomed me back, complete with ridiculous wardrobe and off-kilter beliefs. Life is so awesome.

 

[Elinisti]

You do know that she won the lawsuit and got one of the largest sums of money ever from a plagiarism-type lawsuit, right?

Funny, I always thought that they ripped off Grant Morrison's The Invisibles comic. He seems to complain about it a lot. Maybe the black woman ripped him off.

My social alienation started before tripping so it hasn't been a big problem. Some people must think I'm retarted. I'm just unable to communicate with them and they understand everything wrong that I say. Alcohol, benzos etc. help but it would be nice to have some connection without drugs. Being comfortable with my self seems like a perfect advice. But what about when I'm not comfortable with other people? Something I need to learn...

 

[Ximot]

I would just take them both and trip balls.

ya, me too. that's my problem as well.

 

[drug_mentor]

I think the notion of taking psychedelics for any reason other than "to get fucked up" (a very big mistake imo), obviously leads to social alienation to a point, it also points to it existing to a point before hand.
The whole point of taking psychedelics i to break through social and perceptive norms and take a look at things from a different perspective. The majority of people are more concerned with trivial, commercial bullshit and how many sexual partners they can accumulate in a short space of time.
Just taking these drugs to "see things differently" is obviously putting one on the path to alienation from a society that takes everything that is put in front of them at face value. I have to say there are positive and negative consequences to this.
On the one hand it truly reveals how fake and bullshit and selfish society is as a whole and it is liberating to feel free of this. At the same time, humans are creatures dependent on feeling validated by their peers, this becomes an issue when your views differ so widely and you priorities shift as much as they do (or atleast can). It is hard to feel like you "fit in" with all these blinded fools in society and therefore it is easy to see how one can feel alienated.
I think the majority of people who take psychedelics for this purpose, however, already have these views deep down, and that is their reasoning behind choosing to explore them. This i the reason people who just want to get fucked up tend to favour drugs outside of psychedelics.
If you want to fit in socially then you have to abide by bullshit social norms and in general psychedelics force one to question these and ultimately see them as false, in my opinion anyway.

 

[Percussion_is_Free]

Headspace, I can sympathize plenty with what you're going through. I'm a law student--I'm constantly surrounded people who are assholes in training--all head no heart. It would be so easy to write them off as pompous, arrogant pricks with their heads up their asses. And I've gone that road....seeing them strung along by their urges, seeing their hormones lead them blindly around to conquest and oneupmanship, while I, the detached observer, watch, not wanting to play their game...

Here's a really simple idea that has helped me find the tiller for my psychedelicized mind. The key to life is a feeling of gratitude. Every molecule in your body was once dirt. Think about that! And think about the millions of years of evolution, of trial and error, of struggle, that got you from a ball of gas in space to a planet to a precambrian self-replicating ooze to a rudamentary amphibian, and so on. Be grateful for the eons of struggle that have gone into creating your body.

Or think about the bliss of taking a deep breath. Take a deep breath! Be grateful that you've got this system for turning this ocean of oxygen into life energy.

So that's gratitude. Whatever helps you cultivate gratitude, focus on that. Being in a state of gratitude is to function at your best.

The second part of the equation is forgiveness. A state of grace is gratitude projected onto the outer world, with forgiveness projected inward. Gratitude, forgiveness. With every person you meet, as they approach, look past their clothes and their vibe, and be grateful for their existence. See their pain and their ecstasy. Gratitude. Then, as you interact with them, forgive yourself. Don't judge your performance. Forgive yourself.

Gratitude, forgiveness.
Gratitude, forgiveness.

That's helped out a lot in my life. If you want to know more, gurusingh.com.

 

[dread]

Ego games used to make me sick and alienate me from other people. Now they just amuse me.

 

[IGNVS]

i havnt read other responses yet, so this is a reply to headspace


after my first lsd trip i experienced alot of what you described. the day afterwords however was even more psychedelic than the day i was tripping in the meaning of the word (mind manifesting).

i was completely detached, people talking gave me strange vibes because it was completely useless what they were saying, they were like just saying and speaking to put their thoughts and atempts to satisfy themselves (which would require them to put a problem they can solve in another persons lap basically), and furthermore i had a feeling that nothing in the world would satisfy me even with me not trying to get others to help with the issue. i would eat and be hungry and seconds later feel like i needed to puke. nothing tasted good. i would go somewhere and want to be somewhere eles. eventually i cought on to this game reality was playing with me. this sense of disilusionment and realization that nothing humanity did was making sense eventually came to a feeling of acceptance.

then i had a breakthrough moment. while someone was discussing something (that sounded like jibberish and like they were shitting out of their mouth, metaphorically and literally) i thought "oh yeah, you think you want this, is this your intention? you think that will acheive the ends you desire", "ive found that no earthly thing will make me satisfied, and my body is capable of doing work, it is always churning atp, and i will be a moving living thing for the rest of my life. so reality, if my work is never over and i cannot satisfy myself i am going to do everything in my power to try to satisfy these others that think they know what they want so they can eventually realize what i know and maybe one day people will do things that make sense, but this is their choice, not mine, so i will help them get what they think they want and keep my mouth shut, because it does not need to be used to acheive my purpose"

so basically i try to play a trick on reality by eating their hunger ( if i can take a problem of theirs and put it on myself i will be able to deal with it, crush it into a tiny problem and channle it out of this world, because i am already damned to never feeling satisfied, i will make things just).

the moment this intention came into my heart, well, i dont want to say the skies parted and sound cliche', but basically i was satisfied through having that intent in me along with feeling this ability of infinate wisdom and power to be able to accomplish this goal (so long as i held the spirit in me and over all other intents). i could also see into the intents of other people, almost to the point where i could see what they were thinking just by empathizing with their anguish. no one could hide anything, it was like a light was shining through everything. it was immaculate, and on par with trying to describe an acid trip to someone who has never even dreamed before.

we might have diferent definition for things but your post clicked with me in all of the social akwardness/ complete change of personality. dont stop manifesting your thoughts after the trip is over and you will find things far beyond anything this world can offer you.

i hope this helps!

 

[ganja god]

Going back to the same unexamined life would be an existential failure. Now that you have experienced a new way of percieving things, you have better comprehension of the big picture. Its a choice everyone makes philosophy or comfort? Ignoring philosophy is ignoring the truth however uncomforatable it may be. You owe it to yourself to find happiness in your "alienated" state, or you are betraying a new and wiser side of yourself. It isn't easy, but i find that if you balance your usage of psychs with the empathogens, it helps.

 

[Changed]

echoing what others have said already: perhaps the hardest part about having your mind blown to pieces is putting the pieces back together in a way that you are satisfied with.

my first psychedelic experience was a bit over three years ago; and while I've Changed, I still haven't found the answers to the questions raised by the psychedelic substances...

 

[any major dude]

I remember feeling the way the OP mentioned after a few psychedelic experiences, its an awkward place to be at first, but much more satisfying. The feeling of realizing how obvious most motivations are is quite unsettling. Just surround yourself with people you like and get rid of the people and things that make you unhappy. Obviously this is much much easier said than done, but its a fairly straightforward goal.