How to - Deal with LE.

[anarky]

if you're caught with a crackpipe - distributing or possession - you'll get a fine.
doesn't matter if you brand it a 'glass pipe' , it's still a crackpipe...

Yeah what I was going to say FTL already said, if you've just bought it from a shop and get caught with it...it's not really a crime is it? Unless you have a bag of something in your other pocket...

 

[RedLeader]

In your first post, you write:

"If someone smokes up/rails one with you, they can't be a cop. (wrong)"

I am assuming you mean this that an officer is doing such, so as to more effectively "blend in," and not doing it as part of a personal life...

So to what extent are undercover police officers allowed to use drugs while on the clock? I mean, what drugs can they use and how much of them are they allowed to do?

Does an undercover officer relinquish any of his/her job rights once under the influence? Can an undercover who is not sober as a result of such actions still make an arrest or later testify about what s/he saw or did with someone, during such an intoxication, on trial?

 

[anarky]

No one is above the law...

 

[fortehlulz]

So to what extent are undercover police officers allowed to use drugs while on the clock? I mean, what drugs can they use and how much of them are they allowed to do?

Show me some legislation which says you can't arrest someone after a few beers/a joint/whatever - its not there. Just because they're engaging in 'controlled conduct' (read the whole thread, this has been covered) doesn't mean they aren't a cop anymore. There is NO limit on controlled conduct.

As to the validity of evidence gathered while intoxed, again, we are starting to go far beyond harm minimisation.

Let's put it this way. U/Cs wear recording or live listening devices. Don't bother PMing me asking where or how they're concealed, you will be ignored. An affadavit prepared by a U/C is a direct transcription of the LD's content, along with any additional description needed. You best beleive that technology is not your friend. The cop can be so fucked he has no recall of the buy transaction which occurred if it has been recorded on video.

If you have ongoing, running commentary, recorded for posterity, it doesn't matter how absolutely assbackwards maggotted the cop gets, as its not what he's saying or doing which is relevant - its what YOU'RE doing The U/C is not the focus of the investigation. The U/C is but a tool utilised to gather evidence. How he/she operates in obtaining information about how you carry on your personal affairs or obtains admissions is totally irrelevant if they obtain said information.

Proper crims do NOT get totally and completely wasted then do business. That's another reality of the situation.

No one is above the law...

LOL - except the Australian Crime Commission - as they can do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want.

 

[static_mind]

The dogs, I was to the belief that often the handler would guide the dog to a specific person and even maybe give a subtle signal to indicate drugs.

Thus the handler was given a "legal" ability to seach dodgy looking people.

Is that at all true?

 

[lil angel15]

^^^

I think you will find that fortehlulz will respond with something similar to what he detailed below.

Remember, the dog 'indicating' is much like the 'strong odour of cannabis emanating from the vehicle' - not something which can be disproved later

 

[fortehlulz]

The dogs, I was to the belief that often the handler would guide the dog to a specific person and even maybe give a subtle signal to indicate drugs.

Thus the handler was given a "legal" ability to seach dodgy looking people.

Is that at all true?

While that may indeed be possible, good luck proving it

That said, pretty much as per lilangel above. Its just another pretext used to get a search going.

 

[dnaenterprises1@ya]

fortehlulz, can u explain search warrants a bit? Does someone have to be home to witness it? Are cars parked outside included? Can they dig holes and break walls looking? Does it matter whose named on the warrant? What if they find nothing, can I still be taken to the station?

 

[fortehlulz]

fortehlulz, can u explain search warrants a bit? Does someone have to be home to witness it?

Different issues state by state. In NSW for example, if noone is home during warrant service, an impartial third party (eg a JP) must be on hand to make sure that there's no impropriety.

Are cars parked outside included?

If they aren't on the property (eg they're in a public area) a warrant for the given premises does not cover a car external to the premises. If they're named in the warrant or they get a seperate warrant however....

Can they dig holes and break walls looking?

Yep. Just as an example, check the wording of this Victorian search warrant proforma http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_reg/cwr2004327/sch1.html

"This warrant authorises:
(Name, Rank and No.) of (Agency and Address) Or all members of the police
force:
- to break, enter and search any place named or described in this warrant for
any article, thing or material of any kind described in this warrant"

They can break shit... they can go into your roof, knock in your walls, or even start digging around with probes and ground penetrating radar if they're so inclined.

Does it matter whose named on the warrant?

A warrant is issued to search premises, typically. So not really. That said, it will be relevant who's home. Should you happen to be at someone's house when a warrant is executed, even if nothing is found and you had nothing to do with it, a big fat report will be compiled on you and fed into the intel system.

What if they find nothing, can I still be taken to the station?

If they find nothing, they have no reasonable grounds... so unless they came with an arrest warrant in hand as well, or you consent to attending the station to 'assist with their inquiries', that's a big no.

 

[dnaenterprises1@ya]

Cool, thanks man. What if they come with an arrest warrant, are they allowed inside to search for the person? What if the person is happy to leave, can they still come in and look around?

 

[tyrael]

Along the same lines, if they total (or close to) your house (that is; break walls, objects, furniture, etc.) is that basically just bad luck? Are those things replace? (wouldn't think so! lol) Or could it be covered by insurance?

 

[fortehlulz]

Cool, thanks man. What if they come with an arrest warrant, are they allowed inside to search for the person? What if the person is happy to leave, can they still come in and look around?

Its going to come back to reasonable grounds. Lets say there's a knock at the door and they have a warrant for your mate's arrest - would it not be of interest that he came so quietly and being so adamant that you didn't need to trash your place? What's that smell? The odour of cannabis?

In theory, yep, shouldn't be a problem. In practice, it depends how bad they want to look in the house.

 

[fortehlulz]

Along the same lines, if they total (or close to) your house (that is; break walls, objects, furniture, etc.) is that basically just bad luck? Are those things replace? (wouldn't think so! lol) Or could it be covered by insurance?

I'm aware of a house being absolutely totalled in the 1980s during a search warrant (as in the whole front of the house was pulled off the house to gain entry and it basically collapsed).

As they found a few small deals in the house (which was very interesting, considering the length of time the occupants had to get rid of everything), insurance didn't cover them. You best beleive that if they're going to total your place, they WILL find something (even if it came with them).

At the end of the day, wrecking your house and punching through walls creates the mortal enemy of all police - paperwork. They aren't going to do tear the place apart for no reason, they're either REALLY sure you have something, or want to ruin your day, big time.

 

[dnaenterprises1@ya]

And can u tell us a little about our rights when we are arrested? What do I have to tell them? What if its the middle of the night and I can't call my lawyer? What if I'm off my tits or drunk, can they still interview me?

 

[chopps]

i caught the train in on sunday(we usually get a bus) and was pulled aside for a "random" check. i had 1.5 pills on me at the time and handed them over without the officer having to search me. I was told im going to get a letter with a court date. Is it like other minor crimes where i can just plead guilty on the form and send it in? avoiding court, Am i going to get a criminal record? i dont know wat to do! do i need a lawyer? plz help

 

[Sustanon]

If ur arrested dont say anything without a lawyer. If they ask u questions just ask for a lawyer even if its the middle of the night. You wouldnt want to say anything stupid.

 

[fortehlulz]

And can u tell us a little about our rights when we are arrested?

You are not obliged to say or do anything, however anything you say or do may be taken down and given in evidence.

You may communicate with or attempt to communicate with a legal practitioner.

You may communicate with or attempt to communicate with a friend or relative, to advise them of your whereabouts.

In Victoria, you are not required to participate in an 'identity parade', though the police have ways around this - you'll be walked past someone in a crowded place to see if they ID you should you refuse.

In Victoria, you are not required to submit to an 'arrest photo' or 'mug shot' - however, they can pop down to Vicroads and grab your Driver Licence photo with pretty much zero hassle, and should you hold any Vicpol issued documents (eg, shooters licence) those photos are available to them too.

What do I have to tell them? What if its the middle of the night and I can't call my lawyer? What if I'm off my tits or drunk, can they still interview me?

You are required to state your name and address. Anything beyond this should be met with a polite 'no comment'. From the moment you are arrested, you should be yelling long and loud for them to call your lawyer. If you can't get YOUR lawyer, get A lawyer. If they're planning to remand you and its after hours (hence you are unable to reach your lawyer), a bail justice will be called, and you want A lawyer there to argue why you shouldn't be remanded in custody.

What if I'm off my tits or drunk, can they still interview me?

If you're coherent and it needs to be done forthwith, you'll be interviewed. If you're off your tits and its simply a case of drunk in public, you won't be interviewed, you'll be arrested and lodged in safe custody.

 

[fortehlulz]

Fortehlulz tips - Silence!

You CANNOT POSSIBLY HURT YOURSELF ANYMORE THAN YOU HAVE ALREADY BY SHUTTING THE FUCK UP! No deals are done during interviews or in the back of a brawler van. Deals are done after the tape is switched off, maybe that day, maybe the next day or the next week, you've hung yourself/the evidence is overwhelming and you have something to barter with. Interviews can last a long, long time, and the same question may be asked over and over in different ways in an attempt to elicit the desired response. SAY NOTHING - NO MATTER HOW BRILLIANT OR ACCOMPLISHED A BULLSHIT ARTIST YOU MAY THINK YOU ARE, YOU WILL SLIP UP AND THE TAPE WILL RECORD THAT SLIP UP

 

[tribesman]

With the amount you speak of, you have a good chance of getting a warning with no conviction if you play your cards right. Someone else with more experience will be able to give you more advice.

What is supposed to be the moral of this story? Don't catch the train into the event, instead drive in and out while you're on drugs?

 

[annnwar]

whats the legalities here?

i know if the dog IDs you then they have cause to search but what if there is no ID? can they still search?