Russell Brand... your thoughts?

[Chaurus]

Rape has precious little to do with sex, it’s all about power and control. Even a cursory knowledge of Brand’s life suggests this fits him to a tee.

Is that true, @Shambles?

I hear that statement thrown around by desperate (thankfully not usually rape victims themselves) ladies a lot.

Why can't a rapist just want to have sex without their object's of desire's consent?

I don't know much about rape myself, so I could be wrong, but I just find this too convenient to circumvent other, more troubling, possibilities.

 

[4DQSAR]

Sci-Hub. The Identification of Sexual and Violent Motivations in Men Who Assault Women: Implication for Treatment / Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 2006

I provide the above merely as a index paper. One really needs to read as many as the citations as possible AND search for papers which cite this one.

It requires active reading but I warn you, since THIS paper is based on STATED reasoning, it IS important to read more; many more. But be warned, it is disturing. Control can mean control over a 'dangerous world' and proving physical power can make the world feel less dangerous.

 

[Chaurus]

Sci-Hub. The Identification of Sexual and Violent Motivations in Men Who Assault Women: Implication for Treatment / Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 2006

I provide the above merely as a index paper. One really needs to read as many as the citations as possible AND search for papers which cite this one.

It requires active reading but I warn you, since THIS paper is based on STATED reasoning, it IS important to read more; many more. But be warned, it is disturing. Control can mean control over a 'dangerous world' and proving physical power can make the world feel less dangerous.

Thank you, I could just scan a few paragraphs, and it has brought up at least one interesting point already.

I will try to read this later. On my way to work now.

 

[notsmokeymcpot420]

I previous mentioned 'The Dark Triad' but it seemed to go unremarked.

Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy

Where in the triangle a person may be will be unique to that case.

I mentioned it because DECADES before any legal charges were framed, they were NOT hidden traits.

I hope I was fair, I noted that heritability and upbringing both play there part so RB was dealt a bad hand. However, fame was likely what 'fixed' those traits as the associated behaviors were allowed, overlooked, forgiven, excused. But point to ONE example where rather than admit fault, it was ALWAYS something else. The alcohol, the drug addictions, the sex addiction - never HIM.

I've only ever seen the inside of a British prison from the perspective of a vistor and what those I visited told me. But taking away ALL power, ALL individuality and ALL freedoms will be far harsher on someone inside the dark triad, If only because failing to engage with forensic psychiatrists to whom patients within the dark triad are not particulaly rare could potentially see him serving the entire ten and a half years.

Failing to engage or worse, pretence of engagement would prejudice any parole board (who WILL read a pychiatric report) and in theory even after ten and a half years parole could STILL be refused.

Psycopathy is the most refractive attibute to treat but it IS possible but IS dependent on a wish to change.

If you know anyone who has served a long term in prison - ask THEM. The system is honed to deal with whatever choices the convict makes. Want to attack the screws, fine, you end up on the seg and get a decade added to the sentence. It isn't really optimized to treat personaliy disorders but is the final sanction - that person is removed from society.

Yea I did my HS senior thesis (is that even a thing really?) on Machiaevelli --- Half the class thought I was talkin about tupac for a good 10 minutes... I dig alot of his shit but it does lean towards 'dark psychology' which is kind of a pseudo term I dont care much for itself but get the implication.

Speaking of HS some kid -- well man now obviously is sitting a sting after getting busted by none other than chris hansen --- post tv series.......Should see if there is an obit for that fckin guy yet

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

Is that true, @Shambles?

I hear that statement thrown around by desperate (thankfully not usually rape victims themselves) ladies a lot.

Why can't a rapist just want to have sex without their object's of desire's consent?

I don't know much about rape myself, so I could be wrong, but I just find this too convenient to circumvent other, more troubling, possibilities.

Well what exactly is that but power and control? It's clear as day, no?

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

Reality TV comeback in eleven years or so.

 

[notsmokeymcpot420]

Is that true, @Shambles?

I hear that statement thrown around by desperate (thankfully not usually rape victims themselves) ladies a lot.

Why can't a rapist just want to have sex without their object's of desire's consent?

I don't know much about rape myself, so I could be wrong, but I just find this too convenient to circumvent other, more troubling, possibilities.

Yes it is true --- or certainly was the dominant theory in psychology at the university I went to. (and probably every other one)

Of course there are exceptions but the vast majority of ppl are not into someone genuinely not wanting to be with them. Maybe daterape there is a little higher chance of that being the motivation but that may still be speaking out of school.

You dont get it (either) because you dont think like a rapist lol

I get the impression @tryptakid knows more than me about psychology in general (and that is hard to admit - but credit where do)

Oh yea this is worth watching --- he is a confirmed pedophile as well quite the little song and dance he did about screwing someones granddaughter.... "She wasnt on her menstrual and at least it was consensual" --- Hmm.....

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

By definition if someone is capable of menstruation then they're not a child. You can debate the ethics of fucking young adults, but paedophilia is something quite different and very rare.

So whilst I don't condone Russell and his gang, paedophilia it isn't. Just predatory sexual behaviour.

 

[paranoid android]

Wales - where men are men and sheep are nervous

Are you sure you havent confused Wales with Nova Scotia? Apparently its a profitable place to live if your a sheep farmer with a camera

 

[Bleaney]

I previous mentioned 'The Dark Triad' but it seemed to go unremarked.

Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy

Where in the triangle a person may be will be unique to that case.

I tried to ask for clarification on what you meant by 'The Dark Triad'.

I'd never heard of it, tbh.

But now I know that it refers to Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy, at least in this context.

From what I gather prisons aren't optmimised to treat anything. Very very far from it. There's neither the staff, the funds, or the training.

Off topic, but I heard that if you go in with a benzo dependency, you get a 3 day "taper!" If you're lucky!

That is terrifying. Imagine having go through 2 separate absolute hell scapes at the same time; benzo withdrawal, which we now know can last from months to years, and the accompanying anxiety and insomnia rebound involved with that, whilst also attempting to adjust to prison. Terrifying enough on it's own, without being made 1000 times worse by benzo w/ds at the same time.

I'd seriously end things beforehand if I knew I was going to be serving time, with a benzo habit. There's absolutely no way I'd cope with getting that particular rug abruptly pulled from under my feet, in that situation.

 

[4DQSAR]

By definition if someone is capable of menstruation then they're not a child. You can debate the ethics of fucking young adults, but paedophilia is something quite different and very rare.

So whilst I don't condone Russell and his gang, paedophilia it isn't. Just predatory sexual behaviour.

Call it menarchephilia if you wish. You ARE aware at what age girls start mentratring, I assume? Do you think a 12 YO can give informed consent?

UK law does use seperate legal pathways for girls under the age of 13, if you weren't aware. It varies nation by nation but 13 is the most commmonly used age.

 

[Bleaney]

By definition if someone is capable of menstruation then they're not a child. You can debate the ethics of fucking young adults, but paedophilia is something quite different and very rare.

So whilst I don't condone Russell and his gang, paedophilia it isn't. Just predatory sexual behaviour.

Yeah, I'm not sure why he was greeted by chants of "There's a Brand new Nonce" upon his arrival at the prison.

There's never been any mention of Brand having sex with girls under the legal age of consent, whether they might have been either post pubescent or pre-pubescent.

Apparently the term "Nonce" can also denote other kinds of sexual offending, at least according to the dictionary definition, but with it's modern day usage, we all know very well that it refers to exactly one type of sexual offenses.

And it's one thing which Brand has not even been accused of.

 

[4DQSAR]

Yea I did my HS senior thesis (is that even a thing really?) on Machiaevelli --- Half the class thought I was talkin about tupac for a good 10 minutes... I dig alot of his shit but it does lean towards 'dark psychology' which is kind of a pseudo term I dont care much for itself but get the implication.

I can only apologise and yes, there is argument over if the term is valid BUT I was basing it on the fact that FORESIC psychiatrists DO use it.

I was very lucky to know Dr. Ed Whelan, the senior consultant psychiatrist for a large NHS trust. It was he who mentioned the term to me and for whom it's use was limited to.

 

[Bleaney]

Call it menarchephilia if you wish. You ARE aware at what age girls start mentratring, I assume? Do you think a 12 YO can give informed consent?

UK law does use seperate legal pathways for girls under the age of 13, if you weren't aware. It varies nation by nation but 13 is the most commmonly used age.

I believe that Hebephilia and Ephebophilia are the terms for an interest in underage, but post pubescent girls. However, no one uses those terms, AFAIK, so the terms, and the distinctions they create, may as well not exist. Hardly anyone seems aware or even cares what the precise definition of peadophilia is. It's having a thing for pre-pubescent children.

At least I have never heard anyone use the words 'Hebephilia' and 'Ephebophilia', nor have I ever even seen them written anywhere, in any context, outside of wikipedia and dictionaries.

 

[4DQSAR]

@Bleaney 'Not On Normal Courtyard Exercise' and it was in fact prison staff who marked a convict's file with the acronym NONCE.

I will let you into a secret, I worked with a guy who was arrested while trying to procure sex from a 12YO girl and while we all knew he was an idiot constantly wanting respect, he lacked the intelligence to be funny, to pretend he care or even that he tried hard to hide what he was. But you can't arrest, charge and convict someone like that UNTIL they offend (in the legal sense).

So the term WAS used in their trial... as mitigation.

He was remanded in HMP Belmarsh but not being infamous, he was given a 'legend' i.e. more socially acceptable crimes he could say he was remaded for to keep him off the seg. Then a screw left his newspaper (some are OK and if they bring in a newspaper, they leave it so inmates can read them) WITH the news item in it. There was a riot on the wing!

But my point is because legends are used because the seg only has a limited number of cells, ALL new prisoners are in the position of being judged by other prisoners i.e. does what they say match who they are? So a nonce can be sort of smuggled into the wing. So 'nonsense case' is a second meaning. I seem to recall the guy pretended it was white collar crime but then people noted he couldn't add up or spell simple words!

After he was put in the seg, he was ghosted - new name and everything. I PRESUME he is on a register somewhere BUT using the the skill-set of my co-workers, even an automated search didn't list his name so on release he was given another legend.

 

[Bleaney]

@Bleaney 'Not On Normal Courtyard Exercise' and it was in fact prison staff who marked a convict's file with the acronym NONCE.

Somehow, I doubt whether that definition or acronym is what the other prisoners had in mind, when they were doing their "Brand new nonce" chant.

 

[4DQSAR]

@Bleaney - well, as I mentioned, prisons are bizarre in that they are a microcosm of the outside world but with a bit more of a 'Lord of the Flies' ethic.

There is a thing nicknamed 'the litmus test' in which a convict is more or less forced to hand over their papers (legal paperwork including things such as transcripts of interview under caution).

So oddly, apart from those in the courtroom, people who read a person's papers may know MORE than the general public.

So obviously saying someone was scamming the bank they worked at out of millions would be so rare as to be a good choice for a legend as most inmates would have no idea what to look for. But when even an inmate realizes a person making that claim (and almost certainly with the papers) can't spell or add up - they will be considered 'snide'. But the screw purposefully leaving a newspaper was calculated.

UK prison etiquette is to leave your papers on your bunk. If it's heavily redacted, unless that person claims to be a spy... things will not be good. The panic flush is a well known sign (prisoner in seg hurredly flushing all of their papers when informed they are being moved).

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

Call it menarchephilia if you wish. You ARE aware at what age girls start mentratring, I assume? Do you think a 12 YO can give informed consent?

UK law does use seperate legal pathways for girls under the age of 13, if you weren't aware. It varies nation by nation but 13 is the most commmonly used age.

That's not what I'm saying at at all, so back off please.

I'm just saying that puberty happens, and at one time nobody was checking ID.

Seriously, back off.

 

[MsDiz]

I previous mentioned 'The Dark Triad' but it seemed to go unremarked.

Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and Psychopathy

Where in the triangle a person may be will be unique to that case.

I mentioned it because DECADES before any legal charges were framed, they were NOT hidden traits.

I hope I was fair, I noted that heritability and upbringing both play there part so RB was dealt a bad hand. However, fame was likely what 'fixed' those traits as the associated behaviors were allowed, overlooked, forgiven, excused. But point to ONE example where rather than admit fault, it was ALWAYS something else. The alcohol, the drug addictions, the sex addiction - never HIM.

I've only ever seen the inside of a British prison from the perspective of a vistor and what those I visited told me. But taking away ALL power, ALL individuality and ALL freedoms will be far harsher on someone inside the dark triad, If only because failing to engage with forensic psychiatrists to whom patients within the dark triad are not particulaly rare could potentially see him serving the entire ten and a half years.

Failing to engage or worse, pretence of engagement would prejudice any parole board (who WILL read a pychiatric report) and in theory even after ten and a half years parole could STILL be refused.

Psycopathy is the most refractive attibute to treat but it IS possible but IS dependent on a wish to change.

If you know anyone who has served a long term in prison - ask THEM. The system is honed to deal with whatever choices the convict makes. Want to attack the screws, fine, you end up on the seg and get a decade added to the sentence. It isn't really optimized to treat personaliy disorders but is the final sanction - that person is removed from society.

What are your thoughts on the “dark tetrad”?

 

[Shambles]

Bellend with a thesaurus - perfect description