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Tryptamines Psilocybin extraction methods
- Thread starter red22
- Start date
Ive summed all our proposals and i now rely upon two sources of information notwithstanding all the other patent info we have dumped into this thread (frankly you could take em conglomerate em into one big paper and feed it into Ai's theres so much info here)
Source 1: Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US11851452B2/en
Methanol Acetone, HCl, EtOH, H2O, EtOAc (ethyl acetate buyer back there) all can produce the salt precip
Source 2: Crystallization of Organic Compounds, 2nd Edition O Reilly and other crystallization techniques (past org2 level stuff)
Going back to the "Psilocybin crystallization for beginners" in this thread
Whether simply evaping some HCl(aq) will precip psilocybin - WITH NO SEED CRYSTAL (once ya have the seed crystal then yes all ya need do is temp control for more nucleation seeding) but the other person (that "we" shit) we mentioned psilocybin HCl
US11851452B2 — Google Patents
Psilocybin + HCl → R₃NH⁺ Cl⁻
EtOH / water / EtOAc / other solvents = crystallization environment
Temperature + solvent loss + supersaturation + nucleation history = solid-form selection
So the patent evidence supports:
HCl → hydrochloride identity → crystallization environment → Form A/B/C
rather than:
HCl + EtOAc → Form A
That is the key distinction.
And importantly, the patent gives us Form A from EtOH alone and from acetone, so EtOAc cannot be considered a necessary structural component of Form A.
What remains unproven is whether an EtOH/H₂O/HCl environment specifically selects Form A rather than a hydrated/solvated competitor. Google Patents
During the simultaneous evaping and dry gassing HCl into it (because tossing in muriatic wet HCl has water content that mucks up solubility for crystallization)
thats where im at, we proved the zwitterionic state allows us to form all kinds of forms
using the patent's naming:
Zwitterionic psilocybin
Lastly, the solvent used, the patents show little bit of solvent gets locked into the final crystal salt lattic (again solvent choice toxicity noted)
Source 1: Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US11851452B2/en
Methanol Acetone, HCl, EtOH, H2O, EtOAc (ethyl acetate buyer back there) all can produce the salt precip
Source 2: Crystallization of Organic Compounds, 2nd Edition O Reilly and other crystallization techniques (past org2 level stuff)
Going back to the "Psilocybin crystallization for beginners" in this thread
Whether simply evaping some HCl(aq) will precip psilocybin - WITH NO SEED CRYSTAL (once ya have the seed crystal then yes all ya need do is temp control for more nucleation seeding) but the other person (that "we" shit) we mentioned psilocybin HCl
US11851452B2 — Google Patents
Patent anchor
The key direct passage is that psilocybin was slurried in 1:1 EtOH/EtOAc, HCl was added, and the resulting material was identified as crystalline psilocybin hydrochloride Form A. The patent therefore directly establishes the HCl/Form-A relationship, but it does not establish that EtOAc itself is required. Google PatentsCompound / solvent → temperature/history → crystal
- Psilocybin + HCl
→ HCl protonates the tertiary amine and supplies the Cl⁻ counterion
→ psilocybin hydrochloride
→ this is the fundamental salt-forming / ion-pairing step.
→ The subsequent crystal can be Form A, B, or C depending on the solid-state environment. - Psilocybin·HCl + EtOH
→ patent used pre-existing non-crystalline hydrochloride
→ EtOH solution was cooled from 40 °C to room temperature
→ HCl Form A crystallized.
→ This is the strongest evidence that EtOAc is not inherently necessary for Form A. - Psilocybin + HCl + EtOH/EtOAc
→ HCl establishes the hydrochloride
→ room-temperature crystallization
→ HCl Form A.
→ This is the patent's direct demonstration of forming the HCl salt and Form A from psilocybin itself. - Psilocybin·HCl + EtOH/EtOAc
→ elevated-temperature slurry treatment
→ HCl Form A.
→ Again, EtOAc is a compatible crystallization medium, not proven to be part of the Form-A lattice. - Psilocybin·HCl + acetone
→ room-temperature slurry
→ HCl Form A.
→ This is especially important because it demonstrates Form A in a completely different solvent environment. - Psilocybin + HCl + EtOH/EtOAc + Form-B nucleation history
→ room-temperature slurry with Form B present
→ HCl Form B.
→ This demonstrates that nucleation history can redirect the crystallization outcome even within the same general solvent system. - Psilocybin + HCl + EtOH
→ salt-screen slurry
→ HCl Form C was observed in the patent's screen.
→ Form C was subsequently characterized as approximately an ethanol solvate.
→ Therefore EtOH does not automatically mean Form A. - Psilocybin·HCl + EtOH + toluene antisolvent
→ crystallization/antisolvent environment
→ HCl Form C, the ethanol-containing form.
→ This reinforces the importance of solvent environment. - Psilocybin + MeOH/H₂O
→ fast evaporation
→ ordinary psilocybin Form B, characterized as the trihydrate.
→ This is not HCl Form A and is important evidence that water can strongly influence the solid form. - Ordinary psilocybin Form A + water exposure
→ high relative humidity, 75–95% RH
→ water uptake
→ ordinary psilocybin Form B/hydrate.
→ Again, this demonstrates water's ability to redirect the solid-state structure.
The hierarchy we're left with
HCl = decisive salt-forming component (HERE I WAS RIGHT)Psilocybin + HCl → R₃NH⁺ Cl⁻
EtOH / water / EtOAc / other solvents = crystallization environment
Temperature + solvent loss + supersaturation + nucleation history = solid-form selection
So the patent evidence supports:
HCl → hydrochloride identity → crystallization environment → Form A/B/C
rather than:
HCl + EtOAc → Form A
That is the key distinction.
And importantly, the patent gives us Form A from EtOH alone and from acetone, so EtOAc cannot be considered a necessary structural component of Form A.
What remains unproven is whether an EtOH/H₂O/HCl environment specifically selects Form A rather than a hydrated/solvated competitor. Google Patents
During the simultaneous evaping and dry gassing HCl into it (because tossing in muriatic wet HCl has water content that mucks up solubility for crystallization)
thats where im at, we proved the zwitterionic state allows us to form all kinds of forms
using the patent's naming:
Zwitterionic psilocybin
- Form A — unsolvated
- Form B — trihydrate
- Form C — mono-ethanolate Google Patents
- HCl Form A — essentially unsolvated crystalline HCl form
- HCl Form B — distinct HCl polymorph
- HCl Form C — ethanol-containing solvate/“ethanoate” form Google Patents
Lastly, the solvent used, the patents show little bit of solvent gets locked into the final crystal salt lattic (again solvent choice toxicity noted)
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Dipping a glass rod into the solution, removing it to let the solvent evaporate, and re-introducing the rod leaves behind a microscopic seed crystal that triggers crystallization
yeah, the glass rod scratching technique (creating tiny quantum scratches on glass beakers,) works,Dipping a glass rod into the solution, removing it to let the solvent evaporate, and re-introducing the rod leaves behind a microscopic seed crystal that triggers crystallization
dropping a pre-exisiting seed crystal the size of a particle of sand (which is what that libretext discussed from what i read on its site) or dust works (i was actually thinking drop a tiny grain of silica dioxide sand in there) BUT theres still a hypothesis problem here:
Not every crystallization technique, including methods involving nucleation sites created by scratching with a glass rod, will work effectively for all compounds.As mentioned earlier, the nature of intermolecular forces (hydrogen bonding, dipole-dipole, London dispersion, ionic) dictates how molecules or ions interact with each other to form a crystal lattice
Each compound has a distinct solubility profile in various solvents at different temperatures. A successful crystallization requires the solution to be brought into a supersaturated state
To be an effective nucleation site, the compound's molecules must be able to interact favorably with these surface groups. If the interactions are weak or unfavorable, the scratch might not be an effective nucleation site.
Molecules must be able to adsorb onto the nucleation site and remain there long enough to form a stable cluster. If the binding is too weak, they'll desorb before nucleation can occur. If the binding is too strong or non-specific, it might lead to a disordered aggregate rather than an ordered crystal.
None of the above crystal formation techniques are guaranteed for psilocybin and spontaneous crystallization and nucleation (insofar as the cold ethanol/water/hcl technique,) this is something needs be tested with product in lab setup, or some research paper specific to crystallography of psilocybin
This would be quite simple to find out. Plus, lowering solvent temperature reduces a compounds solubility. Easy easy easy. Go find out, since you are the interested one
lols (not directed towards anyone on the forum more an abstract comment)
He gonna throw dirt n sand in his sh*t to make precious crystals
Why not toss in particles of dusted organic shrooms
someone around er' has attempted to make a damn psilocybin crystal, we clandestines will figure it out in time
Head back to your personal mushroom factory, grab some of your dried shrooms mash em up with some alcohol for a few hours filter the mushie out shove it in the freezer for a few hours and something should crash out so you can take some mind altering substance what are you on drugs?lols (not directed towards anyone on the forum more an abstract comment)
He gonna throw dirt n sand in his sh*t to make precious crystals
Why not toss in particles of dusted organic shrooms
someone around er' has attempted to make a damn psilocybin crystal, we clandestines will figure it out in time
Dont smoke cigs if doing that
Take smoke breaks
In the designated
Outside area
hmmm, i assume we're worried about lighting the EtOH up in the lab
EtOH flash point (minimum bulk liquid temperature at which the liquid is releasing enough energy (in the form of vapor molecules) to create a flammable atmosphere just above its surface) is 13C/55F, Lower Flammability Limit (LFL) is 3.3% by volume in air (vol of the room/area youre in, the Upper Flammability Limit (UFL) is 19% vol by air, and autoignition temp (AIT) is 363C/685F
Means for ethanol, the AIT is a significantly high temperature. If ethanol vapor in a flammable concentration (between 3.3% and 19%) comes into contact with a surface or environment that is at or above 363 °C, it could ignite without a spark or flame. at the flash point temperature, the conditions for a flammable mixture (vapor concentration between LFL and UFL) are inherently met, below the LFL - there's not enough fuel vapor to burn TOO LEAN. Above the UFL - TOO RICH. And anywhere in between, with an energy source providing enough kj and
POOF
Btw back to the topic of diamonds: the experts use equations like Gibbs Nucleation Equation and Youngs Equation to determine the degree of "wetness" and surface area nucealtion.
Dealing with some fine micrometer angstrom measurements
If we want to be particulate matter (no pun) of fact
LC50 (Lethal Concentration where 50% population would die from the gas/vapor) for EtOH is not studied nor reports but OSHA caps it at 1000ppm (33,000ppm is equal to LFL 3.3% ) so well below that and
LD50 (Lethaal Dose where 50% population dies by consuming too much) is 13 shots (where 1 shot = 45mL 40% ABV) for 75kg human
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I went to school decades ago for computer engineering.
Here is a classmate of mine who knew me.
Omar Khan (@MobileOmar) on X
CBO @ADT, Former COO @Olea_Health, CEO @Kenmore & DieHard, @MagicLeap Prod Chief, @Samsung Prod & Tech Chief, @Motorola Global Ops Head. Husband, father, skier
all govt (with arrest powers) are stalkers, liars, cheaters, minimizers, in bed with mostly whores n rats - thats how they get ahead in their way of life
Ruses, and uses
No, kid.
They are in cahoots with the evil faction in the universe who use only libel slander and false accusation and are trying to take advantage of people who are naive gullible dupes who may think they are trying to do good and the right thing when such is not even a consideration of theirs and arent about to turn over a new leaf and finally tell the truth for the first time ever.
That is why they act that way. Literally.
Smith, agent smith
smooth i almost was in process of testing outta comp sci in 2008
X, Inc., tossed my ass over that THCA pathway excerpt
Their govt friends and high profile rich friends didnt like my ex-hacker ass anyways
Dunno ya buddy, do know X is a political media bunch paid-trolling garbage now days
But all any AI knows of me on interwebs via my screen name is law
and im cool with that
Clandestine chemist never reveals where the lab is, whats cookin in the lab, never lets anyone too close to the lab besides a protege'
I am not a chemist and never have had any lab
I argued with an undercover years ago
Who said what i typed didnt work
I argued it did by mentioning the word lab
To try to argue it worked but i made it up as an argument
There was never any lab
i knew too much for that and i listen to things on interwebs with grain of salt
no pun, however, whatcha expect from a political science and criminology major? These cops feds generally just sit in a room listening to some other guy talk about things theyve never done in a lab or kitchen
How many DEA have chem degrees
no pun, however, whatcha expect from a political science and criminology major? These cops feds generally just sit in a room listening to some other guy talk about things theyve never done in a lab or kitchen
How many DEA have chem degrees
The courts arent suppose to do or allow fishing expeditions
If you even remotely cared about the quality of the product moved, you would have a chemist use Casale's methods of extraction, it's the only even remotely effective extraction method I've heard of and it requires a legitimate chemist to produce a product that won't induce methanol-related blindness.