Do you think dealers are inherently “bad” people?

[frogluvr]

I recently saw a similar discussion online and I’m curious about you guys thoughts on this subject ^^

I think dealers are usually demonized and seen as evil or bad people, especially by non drug users. Imo It’s much more of a moral grey zone and I’ve met a lot of genuinely kind and caring people that are actively dealing or have in the past.

I remember my old plug would always ask me how I was doing in school, how I was, always complimented me and called me sweetheart when I’d get in his car etc. - genuinely a nice guy imo, still kinda miss him sometimes ^^

I think it’s quite easy to get emotionally attached to a dealer because of the lonelines/isolation that’s often accompanies the addiction. A few caring words can truly make a difference when you’re struggling and they don’t judge u for using like most people tend to do.

On the other hand they’re still actively sustaining the addiction that’s slowly killing you, which ofc makes the question a lot more complicated.

Anyways looking forward to u guys replies :>

 

[papercuts]

Interesting question, but I think most of us here won't judge the person selling any more than they judge us as the buyer, it's just not part of the equation. While I've known dealers who look physically formidable, I've never felt intimidated, but you wouldn't would you? You're both in agreement over what you're doing. Have I ever got close? Well, yes, the guy I lived with immediately before my husband drove a taxi and sold from that, so, yes, I did indeed get attached and fall in love.

 

[placebonaut]

as with all professions they are a slice of society, the good, the bad, the idealistic, the desperate.

don't tar them all with the same brush, there are plenty of nice ones about, however it's a sad fact that drug users have a higher proportion of issues than non-drug users, and dealers have a higher likelihood of drug problems driven by those same issues themselves, you end up with the "cream of the crop" in your average drug dealer.

but they're people just like average joe public.

generational trauma, poverty, abuse, mental health issues, addiction, greed, easy money, hippies spreading the love, there are lots of drivers for why people end up dealing. maybe that doesn't make them inherently bad per se, it might make them more likely to do bad things though, but that's more to do with the situation that made them a dealer in the 1st place.

The other category worth mentioning is the "professional dealer", quality, reputation, standards, which are all good for the users, though this is imho more likely to be an OCG - though if they keep the nasty stuff directed at other OCGs then it's less an issue, but they're very capable of doing bad things...this is the compromise we make where there's no legal alternative

 

[Gridlink]

The notion that dealers are inherently bad people is of course bullshit as most people using this site already know. Generally I would say most professional dealers I have dealt with were/are good people. And some of the best people I have known, in 2 or 3 cases, happened to be dealers. It's the users who tend to be the most desperate and who end up doing shitty things to people to fund their habit, and that is just a product of capitalistic economics where the product is expensive (because it's illegal).

Someone earlier said something to the effect that dealers are "still actively sustaining the addiction that is killing you" no matter how good they are as people. But I see two problems with that line of thought. 1) it always takes a drug addict to sustain an addiction, but not necessarily a dealer. And more importantly 2} generally it is the illegality of drugs that causes the negative consequences of use, and not the drugs themselves. I guess what I am saying is that it is short sighted to blame dealers for problems that actually stem from flawed drug policy.

It would make more sense to discuss whether policymakers and people with vested financial interests in current drug policy are "bad" people, when you think about it.

 

[spypilot]

i feel like it depends on what they push and if theyre aware of what will happen to those who buy

 

[placebonaut]

i feel like it depends on what they push and if theyre aware of what will happen to those who buy

they will push what is in demand and are fully aware of what will happen to those that buy, they see the worst of it.

agree with @Gridlink to a degree, the user is the only person who is ultimately responsible, the dealer is an enabler, a pusher is something different, a user can have reasons for not being responsible - little snakey get's to eat it's own tail

 

[PtahTek]

depends on how far one would go to profit in my perspective of "good people" in general.

 

[4DQSAR]

I've only ever noted that they all lie someonewhere along the line from being people who treat drugs as a comodity which they are prepared to buy and sell for a profit and understand, accept and mitigate the risk to people who buy in to some myth. Be it power, money, respect or whatever it is they personally lack - but external validation of some sort.

Retailers are almost uniformly at the right end of that spectrum, wholesalers more to the left. The futher up, the more to the left.

Heck, go up far enough and these are people who aren't in the source or destination countries but silo people below them to take the risks.

But as a species, best avoided for your own health, wealth and wellbeing.

 

[Sixx_Psychonaut]

Definitely not, drug dealers have been there for me more than my blood relatives. PWUD are my chosen family.

 

[aleksandrashvarc09]

I recently saw a similar discussion online and I’m curious about you guys thoughts on this subject ^^

I think dealers are usually demonized and seen as evil or bad people, especially by non drug users. Imo It’s much more of a moral grey zone and I’ve met a lot of genuinely kind and caring people that are actively dealing or have in the past.

I remember my old plug would always ask me how I was doing in school, how I was, always complimented me and called me sweetheart when I’d get in his car etc. - genuinely a nice guy imo, still kinda miss him sometimes ^^

I think it’s quite easy to get emotionally attached to a dealer because of the lonelines/isolation that’s often accompanies the addiction. A few caring words can truly make a difference when you’re struggling and they don’t judge u for using like most people tend to do.

On the other hand they’re still actively sustaining the addiction that’s slowly killing you, which ofc makes the question a lot more complicated.

Anyways looking forward to u guys replies :>

I think both things can be true at the same time. Someone can genuinely be kind to you and still be doing something harmful, and the kindness doesn’t magically cancel out the other part.

 

[4DQSAR]

Definitely not, drug dealers have been there for me more than my blood relatives. PWUD are my chosen family.

'Amateur psychology' is one skill-set I have seen used by multiple retailers.

If someone is a steady income stream potentially for DECADES then of course you matter to them - you put bread on their table!

 

[Sixx_Psychonaut]

To add to my earlier comment… Have you ever been to a resturant and ordered a glass of wine or other alcoholic drink..even a cafe and had a coffee aswell as gone to the bottle shop to pick up a 6 pack or what ever you drink if alcohol is a personal drug of choice…well the person who took the money for the glass of wine and also the one at the bottle shop are drug dealers…even the people at the cafe with the Barrista being the drug manufacturer and the person serving you dealing the drug caffeine among others included that produce dopamine like sugar.

In saying that I don’t differentiate between illicit and legal drugs and over the years people who have dealt illicit definantly have been some of those I’ve been lucky to have in my live in a really supportive and positive way with my welfare the main priority and have been able to have honest open conversations with them without fear of judgment which can be not the case with a lot of my family of origin that haven’t been educated around harm reduction and hold strong stigmatising views that promote harm.

I believe what works for some might not work for others and what might not work for others works for some with different drugs working for different people at different times in their lives and think drug supremisim is extremely harmful too.
I won’t judge what ever substance in what ever ROA they want to also.

 

[Gridlink]

'Amateur psychology' is one skill-set I have seen used by multiple retailers.

If someone is a steady income stream potentially for DECADES then of course you matter to them - you put bread on their table!

Customers matter to any good retailer regardless of product.

 

[4DQSAR]

Customers matter to any good retailer regardless of product.

Yes, but your typical baker won't sit down with you as you cry on their shoulder.

Why I know the difference is because I've been in the room more than once where a dealer has had a damned good laugh about a customer 'cracking up' in front of them and how they had to 'waste time keeping them afloat'. I told you, retailers LOVE the power they hold over their customers.

Customers with a decent job or other solid income (generally) get more 'love' as they don't ask for credit or come up short, don't bring static or call at stupid-o-clock. Even dealers know such customers are like gold dust and hang on to them however they can.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

Absolutely not. Some are, obviously, but there is nothing inherent or necessary for the profession that makes one a bad person.

 

[garygroundwork]

some do the right thing

good business. good product. honest. easy transaction. they look after you. you look after the. mutual respect.

then there are low lifes you avoid.

 

[Gridlink]

Yes, but your typical baker won't sit down with you as you cry on their shoulder.

Why I know the difference is because I've been in the room more than once where a dealer has had a damned good laugh about a customer 'cracking up' in front of them and how they had to 'waste time keeping them afloat'. I told you, retailers LOVE the power they hold over their customers.

Customers with a decent job or other solid income (generally) get more 'love' as they don't ask for credit or come up short, don't bring static or call at stupid-o-clock. Even dealers know such customers are like gold dust and hang on to them however they can.

True, I'd say some dealers are in it for the power (being in a close second place to money) but I have also met dealers that I spent a long time with who were not like that. But then, those dealers were also financially very successful and could afford to throw someone some free shit if the person was having a shitty day, for example or smoke someone out if they were in withdrawals and broke. I've also known the same people when they were not dealing (post-arrest) and they were just as kind. But if they were not financially successful while dealing, perhaps they would have abused the power they had over customers instead of eschewing it in acts of customer relationship management. So I both agree and disagree with you, I guess.

 

[4DQSAR]

As a friend noted, 'you can't get lay ons at the pub'.

But so often debt spoils things.

AFAIK retailers at best have their own rough-and-ready form of local Columna Maenia where EVERYONE would agree a customer was infamia so other than gutter level (tiny high price deals, low weight, dubous products), that person would not be served.

In the UK it has got crazy over the last decade or so. When I was a teenager yes, debt was an issue but the point for dealers was always to get the money, even if it meant a customer paying every week for a year. But now there are kids murdering each for trivial amounts.

To me, this is just another reason why all well informed adults should have the right to legally buy and consume whatever they want.

We have tried everything else so at the very least adopt the Dutch gedoogbeleid (tolerance) model where mere posession isn't in itself illegal.

 

[jose ribas da silva]

What the fuck is that? Dealers are the fucking devil, Beelzebub, Astaroth, Mephistopheles, you name it.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

the world famous heroin. smuggler David McMilliam to me is a classic outlaw hero and I don't think his a bad person.