Alcohol Serious withdrawals after only drinking every third night?

[Didgital]

Bro its your GABA system that is messed up. Benzos, alcohol, GHB all mess with it

 

[placebonaut]

Diazepam is a miracle but due to it's extremely long half life, it's one of the harder benzos to stop.

hmm, I thought that the longer half life was 1 of the reasons it was used in the Ashton Taper, the idea being that it gives smoother blood levels versus shorter acting benzos

If you think this is happening to you.. you may want to switch to a shorter acting benzo, just so you can use the valium to stop after a good taper. Just a thought, not advice.

or maybe even consider a taper off Diazepam as a next step once Alcohol is stable?

I think I am addicted to having SOME sedating substance in my system, so in effect I am at least somewhat addicted to all of them.

I feel for you, it's the same with me.

I have finally decided to quit alcohol.

That's a good positive decision

Bro its your GABA system that is messed up. Benzos, alcohol, GHB all mess with it

yeah, this is spot on.

might be worth thinking about your entire GABA system to figure out how you get it back to baseline overall.

@Troppo not sure if it's legal in AUS but I've just started to have a play with blue lotus, quite a nice relaxing evening chill from it, think it might have potential for me as 1 of the thing I'm using as substitutes for alcohol

 

[Didgital]

hmm, I thought that the longer half life was 1 of the reasons it was used in the Ashton Taper, the idea being that it gives smoother blood levels versus shorter acting benzos

or maybe even consider a taper off Diazepam as a next step once Alcohol is stable?

I feel for you, it's the same with me.

That's a good positive decision

yeah, this is spot on.

might be worth thinking about your entire GABA system to figure out how you get it back to baseline overall.

@Troppo not sure if it's legal in AUS but I've just started to have a play with blue lotus, quite a nice relaxing evening chill from it, think it might have potential for me as 1 of the thing I'm using as substitutes for alcohol

I just mean that the longer halflife benzos are useful for tapering. But if you've become entirelhy dependant on one, then you don't have many options.

 

[lyrica333]

yeah alcohol also has withdrawals

 

[Troppo]

Bro its your GABA system that is messed up. Benzos, alcohol, GHB all mess with it

Yes I've been thinking that too. Some time ago I was taking zopiclone every night and I ended up having extreme anxiety the next day as the drug wore off.

not sure if it's legal in AUS but I've just started to have a play with blue lotus, quite a nice relaxing evening chill from it, think it might have potential for me as 1 of the thing I'm using as substitutes for alcohol

Yes blue lotus is totally legal here in Australia. I have experimented with just the dry flowers, which didn't do much for me. Now I'm thinking of seeing if I can get blue lotus tincture, as it would be more concentrated. If I can't get any then I think I'll prepare a tincture myself, using blue lotus flowers and vodka.

 

[Troppo]

So I used to do the same thing sorta, I would try to use benzos not to kill alcohol wd but just to use less alcohol. There'd be plenty of night's I'd just take a benzo and not need alcohol, but then the next day I'd usually drink etc.

The problem with this was I ended up getting physically dependent on the benzos... which I suspect is happening to you. Diazepam is a miracle but due to it's extremely long half life, it's one of the harder benzos to stop.

If you've been taking Diazepam daily for more than a month, I would seriously consider that the is valium contributing to the WD's.

If you think this is happening to you.. you may want to switch to a shorter acting benzo, just so you can use the valium to stop after a good taper. Just a thought, not advice.

I'm now completely off benzos and hope to stay that way. I used some diazepam in coming off the other benzos, and carisoprodol. I've had benzo dependence on a few occasions, the first of which was with alprazolam. I'd been prescribed 4 mg per day but never took that much, as I knew it would be too hard to stop. Just to let you all know, 4 mg of alprazolam is equivalent to 80 mg of diazepam, and I would never have been able to get that much diazepam.

 

[Didgital]

hmm, I thought that the longer half life was 1 of the reasons it was used in the Ashton Taper

What I meant is there are some people who have been taking Diazepam 10+ years and because it has such a long half life, you are withdrawling for weeks if not months. Some people been taking it so long, that it's actually recommended by the doctors to never get off of it.

Its amazing for getting off shorter acting benzos though because of it's long half life keeps the acute withdrawls to a minimum.

 

[placebonaut]

Yes blue lotus is totally legal here in Australia. I have experimented with just the dry flowers, which didn't do much for me. Now I'm thinking of seeing if I can get blue lotus tincture, as it would be more concentrated. If I can't get any then I think I'll prepare a tincture myself, using blue lotus flowers and vodka.

just be aware that making your own might be a PITA, there's variability with the strength of alkaloids depending on when the flower are harvested and other factors. getting a pre-made tincture with known strength would be better, or maybe even try the 98% extract (though I've never had any and don't know how well or even IF it works, I'd also want to understand more about the 98% extract given the trends we've seen with Kratom it might not be a great idea, I have no idea!)

 

[Keif' Richards]

I know you will think I am a negative Nancy. I am not here to bullshit anyone though.

I know you have some years under your belt. As do I. I have been around addicts since birth. I was a Heroin addict and intermittent Alcoholic (I can drink 40 drinks in a day when I am on a binge).

You are an Alcoholic and there will be no peace or freedom or independence of any kind until you stop drinking. The idea of rationing Alcohol is so cliche that there are entire chapters in the AA literature about it.

Rationing will do nothing but slowly drive you insane. Period.

Be grateful man. We have Weed. Imagine how it would be if we didnt have weed? I had to have something.. when I had the primal urge to inject Heroin, I had something that could take the edge off and I owe a lot of my success to this plant.

What you are describing is the Kindling Effect and it is quite normal for Chronic, severe Alcoholics to end up with an experience like yours. I, myself would potentially have seizures if I were to binge for 3-4 days.

Every time you withdraw, go back, withdraw everything speeds up and becomes more intense. You will get sick quicker with less consumed Alcohol.

You need to find a way. You need to find a reason deep inside your soul to be alive instead of dead. Maybe it is family. Maybe it is someone you love. Maybe it is just because another soul free to live and experience happiness is a wonderful, beautiful thing in its own right.

You have to decide that your life matters. Whoever or whatever created you did not do it so you and I can poison ourselves and anesthetize our thoughts and feelings. We are not meant to die alone and alienated and that is where booze leaves you.

Judging by your withdrawal description, you are in deep. I see you have been to detox before. As shitty as it is, these journeys for people like you and me begin with a medical detox.

If you need any help or just need to talk I am happy to help.

 

[agoraphobe]

I don't see any way for me to drink any more, except maybe a beer or two.

From this thread and another of yours, you appear to be doing everything possible to have alcohol included in whatever substitute you try. The answer has to be zero. Not 1 beer and 5 other things. You have to fully remove alcohol from the equation.

 

[puke]

I've been using several substances to stop alcohol withdrawals - diazepam, carisoprodol, propranolol, and 2-methyl-2-butanol. While I'm not really addicted to any one of these, I think I am addicted to having SOME sedating substance in my system, so in effect I am at least somewhat addicted to all of them.

I have finally decided to quit alcohol. Last time I tried drinking, I waited a full week and then drank 8 standard drinks, and even doing this, I had severe anxiety and other wd symptoms for days afterwards. I don't see any way for me to drink any more, except maybe a beer or two. I am going to try scopolamine (hyoscine hydrobromide, in Kwells travel sickness tablets) every 4 nights with a beer or two (no more), as I tested doing this a while ago and I found that I was satisfied, without any alcohol cravings. The scopolamine (4 tablets, 1.2 mg) creates a bit of a buzz, sort of a dizzyish feeling, that may substitute for alcohol. I was only getting that dizzyish sort of feeling from alcohol in the end. I may try alcohol again after a few months, or maybe a year, but I suspect it is now always going to produce withdrawal symptoms.

Maybe it's time to accept you're allergic to drinking and should stop. Especially stop planning for when you're gonna drink next.

 

[placebonaut]

I have finally decided to quit alcohol.

OP has already said they've decided to quit.

The decision itself is a major step forward, well done for getting there!

 

[Troppo]

OP has already said they've decided to quit.

The decision itself is a major step forward, well done for getting there!

Thanks very much for your support. I've been an alcoholic since the age of 20 so it hasn't been easy to give it up. Fortunately I didn't need a full-on medical detox to come off it, as I was only drinking every third day, as I said.

 

[Troppo]

Maybe it's time to accept you're allergic to drinking and should stop. Especially stop planning for when you're gonna drink next.

Yes I have admitted that I must be allergic to alcohol now. It wasn't like this in the beginning, but that's how alcoholism usually goes. I'm just trying to make the decision each day that I won't drink that night.

 

[Troppo]

From this thread and another of yours, you appear to be doing everything possible to have alcohol included in whatever substitute you try. The answer has to be zero. Not 1 beer and 5 other things. You have to fully remove alcohol from the equation.

I've since given up planning to include alcohol in every solution, as it's not working out.

 

[puke]

I've been giving up drinking for the last 15 years but Sept last year it kinda stuck and haven't drank since but did have help with 7oh. Weird thing is the smell of alcohol, when someone is drinking a beer or cocktail by me, actually makes me a little nauseous the fumes or whatever maybe. Everytime I've tried to drink in moderation or somehow make some "plan" do just drink like a regular person or whatever I always end up failing. I started keeping a check off calendar on my phone of drinking and non drink days and that actually helped me seeing it written on when I get a few weeks of sobriety and getting that feeling of what it is proud which I rarely feel.

 

[Troppo]

I've been giving up drinking for the last 15 years but Sept last year it kinda stuck and haven't drank since but did have help with 7oh. Weird thing is the smell of alcohol, when someone is drinking a beer or cocktail by me, actually makes me a little nauseous the fumes or whatever maybe. Everytime I've tried to drink in moderation or somehow make some "plan" do just drink like a regular person or whatever I always end up failing. I started keeping a check off calendar on my phone of drinking and non drink days and that actually helped me seeing it written on when I get a few weeks of sobriety and getting that feeling of what it is proud which I rarely feel.

Yeah I have been trying to get off alcohol for the past 15-20 years and have tried AA, counseling, detoxes, Smart recovery, and alcohol substitutes. I've managed to have a few extended periods when I didn't drink at all, so I need to get back to that state of mind. Good luck with your own battle.

 

[Troppo]

I know you will think I am a negative Nancy. I am not here to bullshit anyone though.

I know you have some years under your belt. As do I. I have been around addicts since birth. I was a Heroin addict and intermittent Alcoholic (I can drink 40 drinks in a day when I am on a binge).

You are an Alcoholic and there will be no peace or freedom or independence of any kind until you stop drinking. The idea of rationing Alcohol is so cliche that there are entire chapters in the AA literature about it.

Rationing will do nothing but slowly drive you insane. Period.

Be grateful man. We have Weed. Imagine how it would be if we didnt have weed? I had to have something.. when I had the primal urge to inject Heroin, I had something that could take the edge off and I owe a lot of my success to this plant.

What you are describing is the Kindling Effect and it is quite normal for Chronic, severe Alcoholics to end up with an experience like yours. I, myself would potentially have seizures if I were to binge for 3-4 days.

Every time you withdraw, go back, withdraw everything speeds up and becomes more intense. You will get sick quicker with less consumed Alcohol.

You need to find a way. You need to find a reason deep inside your soul to be alive instead of dead. Maybe it is family. Maybe it is someone you love. Maybe it is just because another soul free to live and experience happiness is a wonderful, beautiful thing in its own right.

You have to decide that your life matters. Whoever or whatever created you did not do it so you and I can poison ourselves and anesthetize our thoughts and feelings. We are not meant to die alone and alienated and that is where booze leaves you.

Judging by your withdrawal description, you are in deep. I see you have been to detox before. As shitty as it is, these journeys for people like you and me begin with a medical detox.

If you need any help or just need to talk I am happy to help.

Thanks very much for your insights. Sorry I was slow to reply. I have joined a Smart recovery group that meets once a week in my town and I have listened to several stories by people who are desperately battling alcohol. I feel for them as they seem to be sinking, for now anyway, but hopefully they will see alcohol differently, sooner rather than later.

Yes I am finding rationing to be difficult, some weeks I can do it ok but other weeks I give in to alcohol on nights when I was planning not to drink. I've also been to AA and have heard repeated stories about the inevitability of sinking lower and lower when you are an alcoholic, which I fully accept myself to be. Given that I am no longer getting any good emotions from alcohol, there is really no logical reason for me not to quit, but logic goes out the window and emotions take over when I get a craving to drink. I was doing well in the periods when I didn't drink at all, and I don't remember why I started again, but AA says this is inevitable until a person fully and finally quits. As much as I don't like AA meetings I may have to go back to them.

I forgot if I mentioned in my original post that I do use weed as an alcohol substitute, and most times it works well. At one stage it helped me stay sober (from alcohol) for 19 months.

I rely on my family not to give up hope but instead to be glad that I'm alive most of the time. I have my mother who now lives with me due to illness, our cat Tabby, and a second tabby cat called Mister who always visits us from a house 4 doors up.

Detoxing again under medical supervision may be my best way of proceeding. I said elsewhere on this site that I don't need it because I don't drink every day, but that was a stupid statement as I obviously still get withdrawals and the best way to get free of those is to go to detox. The closest detox unit to my location is 100 km away and you have to book in and wait for a bed to become available, and beds are in high demand due to the unit being in Canberra.

Thanks for offering to help, you have already done so with your post, but if I need further help I'll message you.

 

[puke]

Yeah I have been trying to get off alcohol for the past 15-20 years and have tried AA, counseling, detoxes, Smart recovery, and alcohol substitutes. I've managed to have a few extended periods when I didn't drink at all, so I need to get back to that state of mind. Good luck with your own battle.

I'm just starting to understand when ole timer alchies would say it's a life long battle and the one day at a time thing. I haven't used heroin in over 15 but still dream about and think about it fondly but the negative experiences with it as well as alcohol greatly out weigh the good ones.

 

[agoraphobe]

I've since given up planning to include alcohol in every solution, as it's not working out.

Well I'm pulling for you. If you ever need help reach out.