Minimal effective dose for the long haul?

[lodgepan]

My partner and I are probably the most boring MDMA fanatics on earth. We're following Ann Shulgin's recommendation to roll no more than every three months (4x a year). We take 120 mg of pure crystal that we've reagent-tested. No redosing. We sit on the couch, put on the music, say "I love you" to each other for four hours straight, and then curl up in bed and sleep for 12 hours. We've been doing this for years. The magic is still there.

My question is about going to a lower dose. If an 80 mg dose were still enjoyable, for example, then maybe we could squeeze in a fifth annual roll, and maybe extend our magic runway even farther. If trip reports are to be believed, some people have never taken more than 60 mg, others don't feel anything until 180, and still others are doing all this but also redosing. I am sure all these reports are true, but people are different sizes, some people mix other drugs, some do it once a year or once a weekend, and all these rolls are probably entirely different experiences. So it's hard to predict from reading alone what 80 mg will mean if we've been doing 120 mg all this time.

We treat these experiences as kind of sacred, so we're reluctant to experiment and maybe waste a roll and have to wait months to try again.

If you're boring like us, and you've experimented with going lower, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks for sharing, and stay safe.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I think it likely you'd be unsatisfied with an 80mg dose

You seem to onto a good thing with your present dosage, and quality experience trumps quantity every time

(feels a bit icky using the word 'trumps' now, ewwww, apologies. Another thing the orange moron has ruined)

 

[BK38]

I think your "boring" MDMA routine is perfect. As @ageingpartyfiend said, it's better to have 4 magic rolls a year than to try and squeeze in an extra one. It sounds like a lovely time imo; if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Esperighanto]

So, the 3-month rule is not scientifically backed, and was a guess by Ann Shulgin who used MDMA for her therapy sessions, weekly, for years. And she continued to experience its effects. When I've emulated this, I've noticed that no matter how low I take the dose, tolerance formation occurs if I use it more than every month or so, but even with monthly use I did not notice a degradation of effects over about a year and a half of taking 90-120mg of MDMA monthly, with a later redose of no more than 40mg (keep in mind I weigh~100kg). With MDA I would scale it down to ~2/3 of the mass, since MDA is a tad more potent.

I tend to tell people either 4 weeks or 6 weeks, if I were you I'd feel out which is the most effective for you. Fitting 5 rolls in a year, assuming even spacing between them would be ~73 days between rolls, I suspect that 30-45 is more like the actual gap needed, but there's nothing wrong with waiting longer either.

My question is about going to a lower dose. If an 80 mg dose were still enjoyable, for example, then maybe we could squeeze in a fifth annual roll, and maybe extend our magic runway even farther. If trip reports are to be believed, some people have never taken more than 60 mg, others don't feel anything until 180, and still others are doing all this but also redosing. I am sure all these reports are true, but people are different sizes, some people mix other drugs, some do it once a year or once a weekend, and all these rolls are probably entirely different experiences. So it's hard to predict from reading alone what 80 mg will mean if we've been doing 120 mg all this time.

I found MDMA useful down to the 30-45mg range but it's subtle, more of a meditative aid than anything in that range. I also find MDMA to be superior when mixed with psychedelics and/or dissociatives, relative to not mixing it. At the same time, many people find mixes involving MDMA overwhelming and I'm kind of a notorious dosedemon as far as hallucinogens (and adjacent drugs) go. I found MDMA to stop getting more intense around the 225-250mg range, until I break about 700mg which is when it begins to feel a lot like an overdose of diphenhydramine (brand name Benadryl). I also found that the intial dose tends to determine intensity, with redoses almost exclusively contributing to just the duration. I require much less MDMA when I coadminister a psychedelic or dissociative, maybe that could help you to not use your supply as fast, just a random though.

Many peoples' perceptions of doses are also wildly higher than reality, due to using untested pressed pills.