Misc I feel like the smoking (cigarettes) + depression and/or anxiety studies CLEARLY have the causation backwards

[BadBoy377]

it's quite heavenly

I sense your standards are low but will respect and defend your right to do what makes you happy as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

 

[BadBoy377]

After all everyone's neurochemistry is different.

 

[Allylbenzene]

Do you know they actually made datura cigs back in the day? Ive seen ads they used it for asthma. Maybe i need datura for my asthma?

5-HT is a known causative factor in asthma:

Interestingly, the plasma level of serotonin is increased in symptomatic asthmatic patients and the use of anti-depressants, known to reduce serotonin levels, provokes a decrease in asthma symptoms and an increase in pulmonary function.
- https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2249.2007.03492.x

Release of serotonin from mast cells contribute to airway hyperresposivness in asthma

Release of serotonin from mast cells contribute to airway hyperresposivness in asthma – Uppsala University

www.uu.se

Ya quitting morphine really isnt a option for me because i do need it for pain.

Did the dr discuss morphine-induced hyperalgesia? It sounds problematic and likely counterproductive. There's also opioid-induced demyelination, neuroinflammation, oxidative stress.

 

[paranoid android]

5-HT is a known causative factor in asthma:


Release of serotonin from mast cells contribute to airway hyperresposivness in asthma

Release of serotonin from mast cells contribute to airway hyperresposivness in asthma – Uppsala University

www.uu.se

Did the dr discuss morphine-induced hyperalgesia? It sounds problematic and likely counterproductive. There's also opioid-induced demyelination, neuroinflammation, oxidative stress.

No i know about that and i dont get it

 

[Allylbenzene]

Maybe i need datura for my asthma?
...morphine ... i do need it

It's likely that morphine helps drive asthma too via histamine and TLR4.

...opioids are potent histamine releasers
— 10.1177/0310057X1204000204

Opioid receptor agonists non-stereoselectively activate the TLR4 signaling pathway
— 10.3389/fimmu.2020.01455

opioids [...] activate TLR4 signaling and subsequently induce proinflammatory responses
— 10.3389/fphar.2020.603445

...structurally diverse opioids (including the clinically relevant agonists morphine, fentanyl, methadone, oxycodone, buprenorphine and antagonists naloxone and naltrexone) interact with TLR4
— 10.1177/0310057X211063891

TLR4 → asthma:

Aberrant activation of the TLR2/TLR4 signaling pathway can result in the excessive production of inflammatory factors [...] within the airway.
...
Collectively, these studies demonstrate that TLR4 [...] plays a multifaceted role in asthma pathophysiology
— 10.3389/fimmu.2025.1605185

Histamine → asthma:

Mast cells play a critical role in the pathogenesis of allergic asthma. Histamine is a central mediator released from mast cells through allergic reactions. Histamine plays a role in airway obstruction via smooth muscle contraction, bronchial secretion, and airway mucosal edema.
— 10.3390/ijms20071733

 

[paranoid android]

It's likely that morphine helps drive asthma too via histamine and TLR4.






TLR4 → asthma:


Histamine → asthma:


E → histamine:

Morphine seems to help my asthma though

 

[Allylbenzene]

Morphine seems to help my asthma though

Morphine → E↑

Morphine treatment induced a 66.8% increase in aromatase activity
— 10.1016/j.psyneuen.2009.05.013

Morphine has also been reported to increase aromatase expression in the brain and impair testicular function
— 10.22270/jddt.v14i8.6643

Our data show that morphine induces estrogen release from local hippocampal neurons, possibly by increasing P450 aromatase activity.
— 10.1523/JNEUROSCI.3915-11.2011

E → histamine↑:

physiological concentrations of E2 has been shown to increase the subsequent histamine release
— 10.1016/j.molimm.2006.09.030

Histamine → asthma:

Mast cells play a critical role in the pathogenesis of allergic asthma. Histamine is a central mediator released from mast cells through allergic reactions. Histamine plays a role in airway obstruction via smooth muscle contraction, bronchial secretion, and airway mucosal edema.
— 10.3390/ijms20071733

Is this why people often combine M with TRT?
But it looks like it'll get aromatised due to M.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

Advice I've often heard re quitting the baccy is to wait until it looks like you have a potentially low-stress couple of months to suffer in

My experience begs to differ. After a couple of torturous attempts I took the above advice to heart and gave it a go. Then life unexpectedly threw 5 major curveballs ( well 4 major and one medium strength) at me within a month of stopping. Yet, success this time! (0ver 20 years ago now, praise be). My theory is that as I felt so very shit anyway I may as well just as well carry on the withdrawal torture, as I figured it would likely only affect my mood minimally should i relapse anyway.

So, wait til you feel terrible, then quit! (maybe)

 

[Allylbenzene]

However (like with pretty much every psychoactive substance) I feel like it's really obvious that they have the causation backwards...

This is quite common and leads to all sorts of funky conclusions.

and that what the study(ies) ACTUALLY show is that people who have depression/anxiety are more likely to smoke.

Tobacco is an incredibly popular choice for self-medication against cortisol/stress, on par with alcohol and cannabis...then benzos & other GABAergics.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

This is quite common and leads to all sorts of funky conclusions.


Tobacco is an incredibly popular choice for self-medication against cortisol/stress, on par with alcohol and cannabis...then benzos & other GABAergics.

why would tobacco help with stress barring one being addicted?

never heard of a non-baccy addict seeking it to calm down tbh, so I highly doubt 'incredibly popular' tbh

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

why would tobacco help with stress barring one being addicted?

never heard of a non-baccy addict seeking it to calm down tbh, so I highly doubt 'incredibly popular' tbh

I think they mean "incredibly popular" as in tobacco/nicotine being extremely widely use around the world.
It definitely does help with stress, though. The reason non-nicotine-addicts don't use it like that is because it's very, very addicted so most people who DO become addicted.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I think they mean "incredibly popular" as in tobacco/nicotine being extremely widely use around the world.
It definitely does help with stress, though. The reason non-nicotine-addicts don't use it like that is because it's very, very addicted so most people who DO become addicted.

well obviously nicotine to calm down is going to be very popular with nicotine addicts!
It helps with stress if you're withdrawing from nicotine yeah, for obvious reasons

The reason a non-nicotine addict does not reach for a cigarette to calm them down is because it would not work, simple as that. As they would quickly discover after trying!

 

[Allylbenzene]

why would tobacco help with stress

The tobacco plant has many direct and indirect anti-stress qualities. I assumed this was common knowledge.

The reason a non-nicotine addict does not reach for a cigarette to calm them down is because it would not work, simple as that. As they would quickly discover after trying!

Do you think that long-term smokers just happened to continue –after their 1st cigarette– for decades for no reason?

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

The tobacco plant has many direct and indirect anti-stress qualities. I assumed this was common knowledge.

would smoking tobacco help a stressed out non-addict?

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

Do you think that long-term smokers just happened to continue for decades for no reason

It's called addiction? Shitty, nasty-ass almost useless and very destructive drug

If they were honest I bet 90%+ of smokers would quit immediately if they could push a magic button and have no side effects.

Anything else is just the normal addict denial

 

[donotdothis]

we're all addicted to something. smoking organic tobacco is much different than herb mixed ammonia compounds. It can actually be easier to wean yourself off when the nicotine isn't freebased.

 

[drewbocop]

I smoked because I have ADHD and everything that comes along with it, diagnosed or otherwise, which also includes ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION! I quit in 2015 but still chain vape. Lungs are optimal honestly. I miss a fresh pack of Luckys or Dunhill's massively though. Thank God they ruined Luckys or I might still buy them.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I smoked because I have ADHD and everything that comes along with it, diagnosed or otherwise, which also includes ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION! I quit in 2015 but still chain vape. Lungs are optimal honestly. I miss a fresh pack of Luckys or Dunhill's massively though. Thank God they ruined Luckys or I might still buy them.

you were likely self medicating the adhd, given that nicotine is a stimulant - extremely common thing to do

 

[drewbocop]

you were likely self medicating the adhd, given that nicotine is a stimulant - extremely common thing to do

I still am, at 38. Lol

 

[Allylbenzene]

I smoked because I have ADHD and everything that comes along with it, diagnosed or otherwise

ADHD, that's been a word of the day. This post about evolving the ADHD understanding was interesting.