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💊 Drug Discussion 💊 Most Expensive Drug of All Time

BTW one of the most expensive to produce is SR-17018. Patent gives overall yield of just 19.2% over five steps and will you just look at the list of exotic precursors, reagents (Hydrazine FFS!), co-reactants, catalysts, absorbants and so on and so forth. Then it takes DAYS and time and space both cost money. So on a per-dose basis, either someone is using it as a loss-leader or has access to some manner of 'exquisite technology'. The patent deals in milligrams of product and who can say that if scaled, a slightly exothermic reaction which isn't an issue at microscale could be a much bigger issue at scale. That's a chemical engineering problem outside my domain of knowledge. So an opinion only.

I don't know the price people pay but if it IS a loss-leader and is part of a 殺豬盤 scam where the closely related but far cheaper cyclorphine is then popular because people think that a 'magic pill' will just stop physical dependence... while failing to note that about 90% of clients relapse within 12 months. buy now. Turn the tables by taking their money and never buying at an inflated (real) price based on cost-per-dose.

It's akin to cryptoscams. Early investors DO make $$$ and will wholeheartedly support that scam BECAUSE they got in and out in the first 24-48 hours. Timescalee may differ but who is to say it is not a Ponzi scheme, for example? So costly to make that unless people just keep pouring in money, the few at the top of the pyramid are the only winners.

I compared it with the structurally similar cychlorpine. Patent gives overall yield of 56% over just two steps. Why? Because while 1,3-dihydro-2H-1,3-benzimidazol-2-one is an item of commerce, 5,6-dichloro-1,3-dihydro-2H-1,3-benzimidazol-2-one is not. In fact the five steps is a huge improvement on the original Janssen patent but I estimate on a per-dose basis, SR-17018 is several orders of magnitude more costly than cyclorphine.

I can PM the patents and systematically go through all of my analysis. I did post them but it seems to have been removed. I did not detail each step, only gave the yields to make it more accessible for people with different skill-sets to my own. But I do always endevour to provide that information because I am as fallable as anyone else - so if I'm wrong, correct me. But I fear some people view my skepticism as if I am emotionally welded to a given case. I am not. Skepticism is the basis of the scientific method. I'm 100% for safer opioids. Two biased opioids are already in use. Oliceridine (Olinvyk™) and tegileridine (Aisute™/艾苏特), both developed by Trevena. So should we not at least read all available materials on all three compounds?

SR 17018

https://sci-hub.st/10.3390/molecules26154509
Sci-Hub. Comparison of morphine, oxycodone and the biased MOR agonist SR-17018 for tolerance and efficacy in mouse models of pain / Neuropharmacology, 2021
Sci-Net: Effects of a highly G Protein-Biased Mu Opioid Receptor Agonist, SR-17018, in Non-human Primates
Sci-Net: G Protein-Biased Mu Opioid Receptor Agonist SR-17018 Has Low In Vivo Efficacy In Non-Human Primates
Sci-Hub. Molecular Modeling of µ Opioid Receptor Ligands with Various Functional Properties: PZM21, SR-17018, Morphine, and Fentanyl—Simulated Interaction Patterns Confronted with Experimental Data / Molecules, 2020
Sci-Net: Opioid Analgesics: Rise and Fall of Ligand Biased Signaling and Future Perspectives in the Quest for the Holy Grail

Oliceridine


Tegilerimide

恒瑞医药

恒瑞医药是一家从事创新和高品质药品研制及推广的民族制药企业，已发展成为国内知名的抗肿瘤药、手术用药和影像介入产品的供应商。2020年，公司入选全球投行Torreya公布的全球1000强药企榜单，位列第21位。在美国制药经理人杂志（PharmExec）公布的2021年全球制药企业TOP50榜单中，恒瑞医药排名连续三年攀升，位列第38位
www.hengrui.com

I regret all other accessible references are in Chinese, thus I ask for any BLer with the ability to transliterate technical documentation.

I affirm that I do not or have not worked with or for Trevana or any related companies, nor have recieved any fical or material reward for mentioning Trevana and hold no assets, materials, shares of other monitary instruments associated with that company. I do not and have not knowingly stated a false, inaccurate or misleading statement. I declare no conflict of interest.
 
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Syntherize said:
The only reason I could think of why someone would seek it out and/or manufacture it is for the higher 6-monoacetylmorphine content which apparently is more potent than diacetylmorphine while also being more potent with longer legs…
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Seems like a damn decent reason to me! so is pure 6-mam a thing and anyone ever have that? Same with 3 I suppose --- just outta curiosity.
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Fuck that, I'd choose crack everytime. The only time I enjoyed synthnoids was in combination with 3-fpm.

That was fuckin awesome...
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I dont even smoke crack or like stimulants and I am prone to agree with that statement. Did ppl really see spice as a crack alternative? Meth I can see, but synth cannibinoids! Price wise it makes sense but the effects are miles apart.
("I cant afford mushrooms so I'll by a pack of heroin" - logic if so)
Bleaney said:
Spice was a big problem in the UK, particularly in the homeless population just around the time it was banned, and for a year or so after each of the subsequent variants got banned, until eventually all of them did, in the one fell swoop of the NPS Act in 2016. The vendors were virtually giving these substances away in last minute fire sales as the ban dates loomed, and they clearly had huge bulk that they had not shifted.

These drugs were never very popular amongst most recreational users, as they tended to be unpleasantly fierce, and unpredictably strong. However, it seems logical to assume that a number of dealers or criminal gangs took advantage of the availability of the substances at ridiculously cheap prices for kilos of the stuff. They ended up finding a market for these drugs among the homeless populations who could get utterly annihilated for hours at a time, for very little cost.

These substances were also available throughout Europe, in the mid 2010s, but I don't know if the same things happened to the same extent that it did in the UK, in other European countries.

The spice variants were also available in the USA, but I really don't know how much they did or did not gain any traction, amongst different populations.

I do recall that there were lots of threads about spice, and all of it's subsequent variations on EADD and other sections of bluelight back in the day. Many posts were from USA users IIRC. Not sure how representative that might have been of the bigger picture of what was happening over there. Obviously the USA has a much larger population than the UK, so there were bound to be more posts from American users, although of course that doesn't necessarily mean that a greater proportion of the population was using these things,.

I think the spice variants would probably take the crown for the cheapest drug of all time. At prices something like £5 per kilo for the pure powders.. (I cant remember exactly, but it was certainly incredibly cheap.) And a little of that stuff would go a very long way. Just dissolved in acetone and sprayed onto plant matter, or weed, there'd have been thousands of little bags of that stuff produced for next to zero cost. The acetone would evaporate, leaving the plant matter coated in spice, often very unevenly, leading to 'hotspots' in the bags, that would take people's heads off. As we saw.
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Spice was a bit of a problem in the US too -- nothing compared to when they started selling JWH-018 powder though. Alot of ppl burnt they receptors out on that --- I suspect some of the hash I was buying may have had some sprinkled in but ill never know.
 
Kaos_8180 said:
Etorphine sou is extremely and tremendously dangerous with 0 recreational value bc its so potent. Like etorphine is even more potent than fentanyl isnt it??
Click to expand...

That was my take on it -- it has been available (Idk if it woulda made it) but I wasnt personally interested.

May I ask why it theoretically would be so desired?
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Seems like a damn decent reason to me! so is pure 6-mam a thing and anyone ever have that? Same with 3 I suppose --- just outta curiosity.


I dont even smoke crack or like stimulants and I am prone to agree with that statement. Did ppl really see spice as a crack alternative? Meth I can see, but synth cannibinoids! Price wise it makes sense but the effects are miles apart.
("I cant afford mushrooms so I'll by a pack of heroin" - logic if so)


Spice was a bit of a problem in the US too -- nothing compared to when they started selling JWH-018 powder though. Alot of ppl burnt they receptors out on that --- I suspect some of the hash I was buying may have had some sprinkled in but ill never know.
Click to expand...
I remember the first time I saw Spice/K2 at my local corner store in NYC back in like 2009. I asked the cashier what it was and he told me that it was like weed. I bought a gram’s worth in a little plastic jar for $10 and took it home. It was called “Smiley Dog” brand. I searched all over the internet for information including here on Bluelight, and after many, many hours I learned that it was most likely JWH-018 or something similar back then when they first started with this shit. I only took a few tokes at a time from my bowl and then I smoked a joint with my gf another time to see what she thought about it. To me, as an experienced cannabis connoisseur at the time who smoked about a half ounce of high grade weed and hash per week this synthetic stuff firstly tasted like shit, and the high felt dirty and overstimulating even though there was a distinct efffect. Also, I learned they just spray random herbs with this stuff like Mullen, sage, etc. I never got into it, but nowadays these synthetic cannabinoids have moved so far away from their origins. Back then it was mostly just JWH-018 & JWH-210, but the new stuff from what I hear even has some stimulant, dissociative, and even benzo-like effects which is crazy. I don’t touch the stuff since I barely ever even consume real cannabis anymore (I smoked myself out since my teens lol). IDK, these substances are messing a lot of people up, and I love (sarcasm) how these substances are still around while the US government still tries to attack organic Kava Kava and Kratom (I don’t support the extracts and semisynthetics).

P.S. As per your question: I’ve never handled pure 6-MAM before. All I know is that black tar has high levels present within it. I’m sure someone could isolate it for use, but idk if it is profitable or time consuming. 3-MAM isn’t as active and is more of an undesirable product, and that’s why the 6-MAM in black tar is more potent (even though tar is made crudely) than even clean heroin, because heroin is metabolized into both 3-MAM & 6-MAM.
 
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Syntherize said:
The only reason I could think of why someone would seek it out and/or manufacture it is for the higher 6-monoacetylmorphine content which apparently is more potent than diacetylmorphine while also being more potent with longer legs…
Click to expand...
But 6-MAM is extremely prevalent in the usual brown heroin that's present in Europe. Wedinos tested examples too.

I honestly can't fathom a micro-market for Mexican heroin in countries where brown heroin is already abundant.
 
Damn -- I havent heard about the newer ideations. I see "Cannibinoids" as a category but not one I look at in general.

When I was smoking it I was on probation and yea I was AMAZED it did anything --- the last thing I tried was salvia leaves smoked slow like you would pot. "Oly shit this actually works" -- but I seemed to still be failing drug tests so it probably served no purpose at all in reality
 
notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Seems like a damn decent reason to me! so is pure 6-mam a thing and anyone ever have that? Same with 3 I suppose --- just outta curiosity.


I dont even smoke crack or like stimulants and I am prone to agree with that statement. Did ppl really see spice as a crack alternative? Meth I can see, but synth cannibinoids! Price wise it makes sense but the effects are miles apart.
("I cant afford mushrooms so I'll by a pack of heroin" - logic if so)


Spice was a bit of a problem in the US too -- nothing compared to when they started selling JWH-018 powder though. Alot of ppl burnt they receptors out on that --- I suspect some of the hash I was buying may have had some sprinkled in but ill never know.
Click to expand...
Fortunately I missed out on all the spice, K2, bath salts, and all that stuff. Always sounded uncool. I'm not even sure exactly what they all do or if any of them are actually reasonably safe or enjoyable. I gather they are mostly illegal now but are they still very common or available? Are you likely to accidentally run into it in some product in a smoke shop or as something added to some drug? I think I did hear they smuggle one of those types of drugs into prisons soaked into paper
I did almost get to do khat with a Yemeni friend of mine but he didn't come through
I understand that is a natural cathionine, but safer than the synthetic ones?
 
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notsmokeymcpot42088 said:
Damn -- I havent heard about the newer ideations. I see "Cannibinoids" as a category but not one I look at in general.

When I was smoking it I was on probation and yea I was AMAZED it did anything --- the last thing I tried was salvia leaves smoked slow like you would pot. "Oly shit this actually works" -- but I seemed to still be failing drug tests so it probably served no purpose at all in reality
Click to expand...
Just search synthetic cannabinoids on psychonautwiki.org or erowid.org. You will see how extensive the list is. Even Wikipedia has tons of information on these substances now. Just type in JWH-018 and then scroll all the way to the bottom for a list of all the suggestions related to it. Back when I first tried them there was nearly zero information on these chemicals and it was very difficult to learn anything about them online. These days there are literally hundreds of substituted synthetic and semisynthetic cannabinoids which is nuts!
 
chippermonk said:
Fortunately I missed out on all the spice, K2, bath salts, and all that stuff. Always sounded uncool. I'm not even sure exactly what they all do or if any of them are actually reasonably safe or enjoyable. I gather they are mostly illegal now but are they still very common or available? Are you likely to access dentally run into it in some product in a smoke shop or as something added to some drug?
I did almost get to smoke khat with a Yemeni friend of mine but he didn't come through
I understand that is a natural cathionine, but safer than the synthetic ones?
Click to expand...
I’ve never heard of “smoking khat”, but I’ve chewed the stuff before. I was getting it for like $10/g a few years ago. You want fresh khat not the dried brittle stuff, because when khat dries out (gets old) the carhinones decompose into mostly ephedrine-like compounds that lack the distinct euphoria leaving you with just hyperstimulation, anxiety, and energy without any of the fun parts. Getting fresh khat in the Western Hemisphere is actually very tricky and the fresh stuff (wrapped in green banana leaves) can go for like $200/bundle. Honestly, BK-MDMA (methylone) & 4-MMC (mephedrone) were much better. I’ve never had pure methylcathinone or extracted cathinone (unstable in hot temps) before though.
 
Syntherize said:
I’ve never heard of “smoking khat”, but I’ve chewed the stuff before. I was getting it for like $10/g a few years ago. You want fresh khat not the dried brittle stuff, because when khat dries out (gets old) the carhinones decompose into mostly ephedrine-like compounds that lack the distinct euphoria leaving you with just hyperstimulation, anxiety, and energy without any of the fun parts. Getting fresh khat in the Western Hemisphere is actually very tricky and the fresh stuff (wrapped in green banana leaves) can go for like $200/bundle. Honestly, BK-MDMA (methylone) & 4-MMC (mephedrone) were much better. I’ve never had pure methylcathinone or extracted cathinone (unstable in hot temps) before though.
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Oops, yeah, "smoking" was a brain glitch. I m want to say chewing. It's a very traditional drug in Yemen and think there were Yemenis who grow it here even, or at least import it fresh. But I never got connected. My friend was never deep into it, it was more just an occasional special occasion. But he told me some of his relatives would chew if all day and get way too into it.
I always pictured it kinda like coca leaves. I chewed them in Peru and it was enjoyable but nothing I would want to do heavily.
 
chippermonk said:
Fortunately I missed out on all the spice, K2, bath salts, and all that stuff. Always sounded uncool. I'm not even sure exactly what they all do or if any of them are actually reasonably safe or enjoyable. I gather they are mostly illegal now but are they still very common or available? Are you likely to accidentally run into it in some product in a smoke shop or as something added to some drug? I think I did hear they smuggle one of those types of drugs into prisons soaked into paper
I did almost get to smoke khat with a Yemeni friend of mine but he didn't come through
I understand that is a natural cathionine, but safer than the synthetic ones?
Click to expand...

If you are in a legal state I think the chances are pretty low. If you still live in a blackmarket state --prolly still pretty low, but less so. I have heard of such things being smuggled into prisons on paper. Usually LSD or NBOME of some kind but suboxone also seems to appear on the list along with meth. I suppose aything you can soak a dose in paper --- prison is desperate, ppl with tobbacco up they arse snortin seroquel sharin a needle per pod
(not to stereotype id be desperate too, hopefully id refrain from such foolishness though)

In a smoke shop?? I really doubt it as I think it is straight illegal and too large a risk, may as well sell real pot? But never say never I suppose

FTR it was very uncool, lionsmane and all kinds of random shite than some jwh-018 --- tasted bad, the high was 'off' -- but it was MJ 'adjacent' which you know desperation again.
 
I’ve never been able to “trip” on salvia I smoked leaf I smoked extracts x50 nada nothing only slight feeling of mdma come up for couple seconds while my friends were “tripping” balls idk why and now that i thought better about it it was for the best lol
 
cnnka said:
I’ve never been able to “trip” on salvia I smoked leaf I smoked extracts x50 nada nothing only slight feeling of mdma come up for couple seconds while my friends were “tripping” balls idk why and now that i thought better about it it was for the best lol
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Me too! I’ve tried Salvia over ten times in my life, and every time I’ve tried to do it exactly as everyone said I should: using a butane torch lighter, a bong, holding multiple hits in for over ten seconds, etc. I’ve never got anything much from it even with 80x extracts that I spent over $60 on in the past (back in like 2010). The only time I actually experienced some type of effects is when I combined it with weed and a ballon of nitrous right after hitting the salvia (lol), but in my experience salvia is a kappa opioid agonist which makes it feel like a VERY dysphoric experience that is not fun with ZERO recreational value. One thing I remember about salvia is after taking and holding in multiple hits from a bong (3-5) I always felt like the wind blew out my soul from my body followed by a wave of dysphoria which totally sucks, but as far as visuals go I experienced none to speak of except when combined with the weed and nitrous as I already mentioned. No wonder they never ended up banning salvia federally in the US, bc no one even really wants to do this drug even if you give it to them for free, especially after trying it a few times…lol
 
I have mentioned this many times but of the various classes of RC, those synthetic CB1/CB2 ligands (Spice/Monkey Dust/<insert name here>) were the LEAST pure and contained the MOST dangerous side-products. Dimers, trimers and polymers. Why so dangerous? Because if smoked, they will not vaporize ahead of the flame-front being to heavy, so they are pyrolized to nice things like nitrosamines (cycotoxics).

I am convinced that in a decade or two, we will see a spike in cancer-rates among people who used those 'synthetic cannabis' class of RC.

About half of all samples had enough for them to show clear spikes on the GC-MS and even extra peaks under NMR - suggesting they were not a tiny percentage, but quite a lot OF the product.
 
BadBoy377 said:
Alright crew,

Here's one I was thinking about recently.

What do you think the most expensive (recreational) drug of all time is? Say on a price per gram, not per dose.

I'm struggling to think. Good methamphetamine used to be pricey for a gram. But something like LSD as a gram would cost... I dunno any ideas?

But the question is what do you think the most expensive drug is?

Just for fun... There's no prize or anything.

BB
Click to expand...
From my own experience, heroin
 
4DQSAR said:
I have mentioned this many times but of the various classes of RC, those synthetic CB1/CB2 ligands (Spice/Monkey Dust/<insert name here>) were the LEAST pure and contained the MOST dangerous side-products. Dimers, trimers and polymers. Why so dangerous? Because if smoked, they will not vaporize ahead of the flame-front being to heavy, so they are pyrolized to nice things like nitrosamines (cycotoxics).

I am convinced that in a decade or two, we will see a spike in cancer-rates among people who used those 'synthetic cannabis' class of RC.

About half of all samples had enough for them to show clear spikes on the GC-MS and even extra peaks under NMR - suggesting they were not a tiny percentage, but quite a lot OF the product.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your insight 🙏
 
4DQSAR said:
I am convinced that in a decade or two, we will see a spike in cancer-rates among people who used those 'synthetic cannabis' class of RC.
Click to expand...

hey at least weed that is widely available everywhere anyways wasn’t legalized and at least ppl that were drug tested for jobs didn’t smoke weed and instead smoked these far more powerful and toxic cannabinoids.
 
Dr. John Thackery said:
hey at least weed that is widely available everywhere anyways wasn’t legalized and at least ppl that were drug tested for jobs didn’t smoke weed and instead smoked these far more powerful and toxic cannabinoids.
Click to expand...

It's going to be a tough one to spot because your typical Monkey Dust user is not you average joe. No indeed, these are overwhelmingly people on the margins of society and whose mortality rate will naturally be higher than the median value.

That said, wasn't the stuff legal in some US states before weed was? So there MAY exist users who do lead a more regulated lifestyle?

I suspect people falling under buses or drowing in six inches of water are you more likely user. But I do not know since I am not based in the US.
 
4DQSAR said:
It's going to be a tough one to spot because your typical Monkey Dust user is not you average joe. No indeed, these are overwhelmingly people on the margins of society and whose mortality rate will naturally be higher than the median value.

That said, wasn't the stuff legal in some US states before weed was? So there MAY exist users who do lead a more regulated lifestyle?

I suspect people falling under buses or drowing in six inches of water are you more likely user. But I do not know since I am not based in the US.
Click to expand...
Yes, much of these synth cannabinoids were legal long before real cannabis was in the USA. I remember these days during the mid 2000’s smh
 
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