💊 Drug Discussion 💊 Most Expensive Drug of All Time

[cnnka]

Are you sure this isn't just your standard Afghan / Pakistan brown? That can also smell.

I've never heard this before from anybody in Germany or Southern Europe.

Seems highly unusual that something almost completely synthesised in Mexico would surface in Germany, where the Turks largely control the trade and they sell the usual brown freebase.

If you do happen to be wrong, don't worry because the substances are superficially quite similar.

Yeah it’s pretty standard over here for lots of years , didn’t know that it was sold mainly in Mexico but it’s a staple here just like brown black tar is largely available.
I’m from southern Europe and I know what’s in the “market” at least for my country.
My brother last month visited Germany and was looking for some hash and he scored black tar from a random guy at the street so I sense it’s pretty common over there also.

 

[cnnka]

Spice was a big problem in the UK, particularly in the homeless population just around the time it was banned, and for a year or so after each of the subsequent variants got banned, until eventually all of them did, in the one fell swoop of the NPS Act in 2016. The vendors were virtually giving these substances away in last minute fire sales as the ban dates loomed, and they clearly had huge bulk that they had not shifted.

These drugs were never very popular amongst most recreational users, as they tended to be unpleasantly fierce, and unpredictably strong. However, it seems logical to assume that a number of dealers or criminal gangs took advantage of the availability of the substances at ridiculously cheap prices for kilos of the stuff. They ended up finding a market for these drugs among the homeless populations who could get utterly annihilated for hours at a time, for very little cost.

These substances were also available throughout Europe, in the mid 2010s, but I don't know if the same things happened to the same extent that it did in the UK, in other European countries.

The spice variants were also available in the USA, but I really don't know how much they did or did not gain any traction, amongst different populations.

I do recall that there were lots of threads about spice, and all of it's subsequent variations on EADD and other sections of bluelight back in the day. Many posts were from USA users IIRC. Not sure how representative that might have been of the bigger picture of what was happening over there. Obviously the USA has a much larger population than the UK, so there were bound to be more posts from American users, although of course that doesn't necessarily mean that a greater proportion of the population was using these things,.

I think the spice variants would probably take the crown for the cheapest drug of all time. At prices something like £5 per kilo for the pure powders.. (I cant remember exactly, but it was certainly incredibly cheap.) And a little of that stuff would go a very long way. Just dissolved in acetone and sprayed onto plant matter, or weed, there'd have been thousands of little bags of that stuff produced for next to zero cost. The acetone would evaporate, leaving the plant matter coated in spice, often very unevenly, leading to 'hotspots' in the bags, that would take people's heads off. As we saw.

Spice was pretty popular the same time in southern Europe was very potent stuff people had seizures my best friend had three seizures was very addicted to the stuff , me personally I only liked the first time cause of huge weed tolerance , didn’t like it at all very “chemical” you was super high unwilling to move and in the inside you freaked out u was only smoking it , when there was no weed available.
On the pros stuff was very cheap and you could smoke it anywhere in a rolled cigarette and no one sensed nothing.

@F.U.B.A.R. Hows the 3fpm is pretty available and legal here I dint like stimulants in general

 

[Dr. John Thackery]

Fuck that, I'd choose crack everytime. The only time I enjoyed synthnoids was in combination with 3-fpm.

That was fuckin awesome...

AB pinaca was great

if it’s only a cannabinoid spice ain’t such a big deal to me it seems.

but some of the products have psychedelic drugs in them. 5HT agonists mixed with synthetic cannabinoids.

other stuff too (anyone know what else)?

the ones that are just purely cannabinoids don’t seem too bad.

obviously worse than weed due to the sheer intensity and ease of overdosing, but i thought they were pretty cool when i sampled jwh and the pinaca series

 

[Kaos_8180]

Well, idk about that, because all you need is morphine base and glacial acetic acid that isn’t a watched chemical, and I watched a Vice documentary about some junkies in Eastern Europe that were scoring wild poppies out in the fields and cooking the sap down into an injectable solution; however, after their samples were lab tested they resulted in only readings of mostly morphine with some codeine in it as a part of the crude mix. Although, the dudes in this documentary didn’t strike me as very knowledgeable chemists at all, and honestly anyone with access to opium poppies could make black tar easily so long as they understand how to process it which isn’t very difficult to do. Extracting freebase morphine from the opium sap is the first step followed by reacting with the glacial acetic acid rather than trying to source/use acetic anhydride.

Yes, diacetylmorphine is a prodrug just as Tramadol is a prodrug to desmethyltramadol; however, diacetylmorphine’s binding affinity to the mu opioid receptor is poor, unlike Tramadol which still has its own characteristic effects when ingested, but even that will vary depending on individual metabolism just as codeine is a prodrug to morphine with highly variable metabolism in different populations.

P.S. Heroin is metabolized into not only 6-MAM, but 3-MAM as well, and this is why pure 6-MAM is nearly twice as potent while being more euphoric.

Is it even possible to aquire 6-MAM or is it specifically something that you only get when you consume actual heroin? Can 6-MAM be a separate substance?

 

[Kaos_8180]

if etorphine is anything like morphine or heroin (produces a superior high to fent.. but has the potency of fent); this drug would be game changing to unleash on society and a gram would be extremely valuable

Etorphine sou is extremely and tremendously dangerous with 0 recreational value bc its so potent. Like etorphine is even more potent than fentanyl isnt it??

 

[N0ph0n0]

Im thinking abt it and if charlie perc made jenkem a gram of it would probably be worth millions

 

[Syntherize]

Is it even possible to aquire 6-MAM or is it specifically something that you only get when you consume actual heroin? Can 6-MAM be a separate substance?

I’m sure one can separate it somehow, but there are so many other opioid options that it probably isn’t cost effective unless someone just wants to do it for the heck of isolating it.

 

[Kaos_8180]

Yeah, although I've only extracted small amounts of latex from home grown poppies, it was very similar to the gram I bought off Silk Road, in taste, smell, appearance etc. So I'm pretty sure I received the genuine article.

Also someone with more experience, who knew about these things, ordered the same thing, and confirmed that it was 'good stuff', or words to that effect.

Not too sure regarding how refined it was though. It was a solid colour and texture throughout though, which I guess boded well, as to it being more refined than unrefined.

I'm more interested in opium than heroin for 2 reasons tbh:

Far less stigma, it seems to me that it's more of an 'exotic' item rather than something that is so heavily stigmatised, and it's essentially just the 'natural', 'minimally processed' version of the same substance, as far as I have gathered, at least.

I'm already carrying more than enough stigmatised things, and I can do without adding what would probably be the most heavily stigmatised thing of all, on top. No judgement on those that do use heroin, but it's just not for me.

Honestly I dont personally give a rats shits whether something is stigmatized or not lmfao. I just dont care what other people think when it comes to this stuff. People are just way too ignorant, arrogant and extremely judgy and will judge you just bc they hear heroin and automatically look at you like a pos. I dont think H is inherently bad. Its a substance. Its not capable of being good or bad. We people are what turn it good or bad. If I could find quality, uncut, non laced pure white heroin. Or even the purer brown stuff, id absolutely buy several several grams to stash for medicinal or even occasional recreational purposes. I wish real pure H was still around in the states. As far as I know H is non existent in the states anymore. Its all fucking fent, fent analogues and and fent/zenes. That shit is so much more dangerous. H can be used responsibly without becoming addicted. Just like how people drink from time to time or how people use cannabis and even opium occasionally. Its not as dangerous as the government would have you believe. It can be if your stupid about it but that's with just about anything these days. That's just my personal opinion though.

 

[Syntherize]

Etorphine sou is extremely and tremendously dangerous with 0 recreational value bc its so potent. Like etorphine is even more potent than fentanyl isnt it??

Yes, etorphine is more potent than most fentanyl analogs more along the lines of carfentanyl, but etorphine has a more true “opiate/morphine” chemical backbone as opposed to fentanyl which doesn’t necessarily follow the traditional morphine rule structure. Also, if you overdose on etorphine by taking it you will need specialized veterinary opioid antagonists that have a lot of nasty side effects in humans and there is a high risk of death too since ordinary naloxone will be ineffective. Wild game hunters and large animal veterinarians often carry it for their dart guns, and there have been documented cases of some people accidentally dosing themselves with the drug. Carfentanyl is used for big game sedation as well.

 

[4DQSAR]

AFAIK neither are considered as euphoric as less potent 'classic' opioids. Now carfentanil, I do not know about. That COULD have a more euphoric effect but I think the surprise was people telling me it works for 12 hours. There is a small amount of human data suggesting that carfentanil has a 2-phase metabolism. Possibly it just lurks in fat being so lipophilic, but that's just my own hypothesis. But equally, those people had no real way of knowing what the 'mystery powder' really was and some nitazines apparently last to 12 hours and for some are euphoric - but it's an odd one. People talk about being 'activated' as oxycodone can do then a few minutes later nod out for a few mintures... and repeat.

Not my idea of fun. But a HR worker in the US would know far more than I. I mean - experience means more than any 'book learning' when it comes to dealing with clients.

 

[Syntherize]

Honestly I dont personally give a rats shits whether something is stigmatized or not lmfao. I just dont care what other people think when it comes to this stuff. People are just way too ignorant, arrogant and extremely judgy and will judge you just bc they hear heroin and automatically look at you like a pos. I dont think H is inherently bad. Its a substance. Its not capable of being good or bad. We people are what turn it good or bad. If I could find quality, uncut, non laced pure white heroin. Or even the purer brown stuff, id absolutely buy several several grams to stash for medicinal or even occasional recreational purposes. I wish real pure H was still around in the states. As far as I know H is non existent in the states anymore. Its all fucking fent, fent analogues and and fent/zenes. That shit is so much more dangerous. H can be used responsibly without becoming addicted. Just like how people drink from time to time or how people use cannabis and even opium occasionally. Its not as dangerous as the government would have you believe. It can be if your stupid about it but that's with just about anything these days. That's just my personal opinion though.

Real H is still around, but you can’t be looking at the run-of-the-mill street sources. You must move a notch above the street dealers, get it in bulk (usually multiple grams at a time minimum), because even a lot of the fent/zine cut stuff has a tiny bit of H in it so that it can show up on cheap reagent tests. It’s the dealers who then distribute the stuff on the streets that are cutting the H with fent/zines due to the fact that so many street junkies are demanding the strongest and hardest shot available even if it kills them…smh

 

[4DQSAR]

what do you think the non selectivity of etorphine would impart to the subjective effects vs more mu selective opioids?

No idea. Possibly. Depending on what actually makes an opioid 'pleasurable'. I sense not since the Chinese developed thioenorpine and latterly TH-030418 which only makes action longer.

A weaker bridged oripavine MAY, but who would use costly thebaine to make a low-yielding low-potency compound? Speaking more broadly, yes - oxycodone and oxymorphine (and maybe 14-methoxymetopon). No bridge but same precursor. I mean, is x500 M enough for your calculation?

If so, the still unknown is how to form that methoxy methyl ether. Prof. Dr. Helmut Schmidhammer is a researcher so yield need only be 'enough' and again, thebaine is the ultimate precursor.

I just do not see 'cook' being able to use his route. Now if oxycodone or oxymorphone could selectively be 14-methylated, that would be a different story - but they can't so it isn't (AFASIK).

 

[gannetsarewe]

"Saturday night palsy" I have to remember that one

I seem to remember that Mark Linkous of Sparklehorse ended up permanently disabled from this or something very similar.

 

[KurtAurelius]

AFAIK neither are considered as euphoric as less potent 'classic' opioids. Now carfentanil, I do not know about. That COULD have a more euphoric effect but I think the surprise was people telling me it works for 12 hours. There is a small amount of human data suggesting that carfentanil has a 2-phase metabolism. Possibly it just lurks in fat being so lipophilic, but that's just my own hypothesis. But equally, those people had no real way of knowing what the 'mystery powder' really was and some nitazines apparently last to 12 hours and for some are euphoric - but it's an odd one. People talk about being 'activated' as oxycodone can do then a few minutes later nod out for a few mintures... and repeat.

Not my idea of fun. But a HR worker in the US would know far more than I. I mean - experience means more than any 'book learning' when it comes to dealing with clients.

Clients would much prefer a HR worker with actual experience, particularly lived. This is what I used to bring to the table and another chap I knew. It’s not enough being book smart and a lot of these university graduates didn’t understand this.

I miss frontline work, but the way these places are run is fucking shocking, and it’s why I tapped out.

 

[Bleaney]

I guess it's a trust issue. I was able to use the services of the charitable recovery organisation called Rise / Lifeline / SMART at one point, and while they offered and indeed maintained complete confidentiality, it's natural to be a bit wary, and to gradually open up, once confidence in the trust increases.

When I tried to get another referral for help a couple of years later, RISE no longer existed, I guess the money had gone, and there was only CGI (IIRC their name correctly.)

They were so punitive though, openly stating in the first meeting that everything I disclosed would be reported straight back to my GP, the DVLA, and even the police! (IIRC.)

I mean, who in their right mind would go ahead with that, if up until that point you had no record with the police and DVLA, and only relatively minor substance related things on your medical files? Obviously they would be ruining the remainder of your working life, by making it extremely difficult to gain employment in the future, if you conceded to let them inform the police. That kind of "help" is no use to anyone who wants to turn things around, and return to gainful employment etc.

I certainly never went back that's for sure! When I quit benzos I ended up doing it on my own, the crucial factor was getting my mind set on being determined and committed to completing the taper, and giving abstinence another go.

I didn't quite have that whilst I was with Rise, much to the huge frustration of all the workers there, who were trying their best to help me.

 

[Syntherize]

I guess it's a trust issue. I was able to use the services of the charitable recovery organisation called Rise / Lifeline / SMART at one point, and while they offered and indeed maintained complete confidentiality, it's natural to be a bit wary, and to gradually open up, once confidence in the trust increases.

When I tried to get another referral for help a couple of years later, RISE no longer existed, I guess the money had gone, and there was only CGI (IIRC their name correctly.)

They were so punitive though, openly stating in the first meeting that everything I disclosed would be reported straight back to my GP, the DVLA, and even the police! (IIRC.)

I mean, who in their right mind would go ahead with that, if up until that point you had no record with the police and DVLA, and only relatively minor substance related things on your medical files? Obviously they would be ruining the remainder of your working life, by making it extremely difficult to gain employment in the future, if you conceded to let them inform the police. That kind of "help" is no use to anyone who wants to turn things around, and return to gainful employment etc.

I certainly never went back that's for sure! When I quit benzos I ended up doing it on my own, the crucial factor was getting my mind set on being determined and committed to completing the taper, and giving abstinence another go.

I didn't quite have that whilst I was with Rise, much to the huge frustration of all the workers there, who were trying their best to help me.

Congratulations on getting off benzos on your own! I’m currently struggling to get off alcohol dependence, because I’m in a different state right now, and I don’t have access to the medication that I need such as Librium (to taper down) or clonazepam which is supposed to be prescribed to me. What you shared is the very reason I’m very discreet about my drug history since I don’t have anything on my criminal or medical record to say otherwise, but people who will immediately try to rat you out for seeking help by sharing the truth with them are the scum of the earth seriously.

 

[Bleaney]

Congratulations on getting off benzos on your own! I’m currently struggling to get off alcohol dependence, because I’m in a different state right now, and I don’t have access to the medication that I need such as Librium (to taper down) or clonazepam which is supposed to be prescribed to me. What you shared is the very reason I’m very discreet about my drug history since I don’t have anything on my criminal or medical record to say otherwise, but people who will immediately try to rat you out for seeking help by sharing the truth with them are the scum of the earth seriously.

Exactly, anyone desperate enough to go ahead with that would be doomed to having drugs offenses on their criminal record, thus making most jobs impossible to obtain in the future following a CRB check, and likely leading to a lifetime of unemployment, where you'd be far more likely to return to heavy drug use, if there is little hope of improving your life.

That policy must have come from the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg, and any so called "Recovery Workers" who thought that was just and fair, and a good idea, should never have been working in such jobs. They clearly wanted to punish drug users for the state they had got themselves in, rather than help them get out of the mess, and return to being productive tax paying employees, or start up business operators. The whole thing shows a total lack of understanding and joined up thinking. Punishing people for being 'unemployed wasters', writing off their futures, by virtually ensuring that there would be no escape from that, and little chance of turning things around.

There are only a very limited number of jobs that the likes of Timpsons and apparently some pest control companies could offer, as these are the rare employers known to be keen on offering people with criminal records a second chance at employment. You'd fall at that hurdle in practically all other cases when applying for jobs. And then Rees-Mogg's favourite pet peeve is people on benefits, whom he blames for most of the problems in Britain today. All the problems with the economy etc - it's all the fault of people on benefits. It's people with his ways of thinking that put lots of people on benefits in he first place, and gave them no hope of escaping.

 

[Perkins : Reborn]

I've been busted for weed but nothing appears on my DBS checks.

Airports are fun, but nothing beyond that.

 

[Bleaney]

I guess it would depend on what the individual within the police chose to do with any information provided by the likes of CGI.

Some police officers genuinely seem to be kind and understanding of people in difficulties, (or at least they are while on camera on those reality TV police shows,) whilst others probably think that the more charges or prosecutions they get under their belt, the faster and further they will progress in their careers.

You might just have received a caution, that doesn't show up on any employment checks.

 

[4DQSAR]

Coppers a people. Some are nice, most are OK, but yep, you also get cnuts.

I had the great privilage of getting one busted down from desk sargent to PO.

I still saw him in the street, I'm always ready with a friendly wave.

I didn't do it for me, I did if for ALL the people he mistreated. I just know that he was ghosted i.e. put on administrative leave for six months, offered go or take demotion and I suspect for the pension, he stuck it out. Haven't seen him in a couple of years... so maybe he's retired or dead. Either way, I wish him well!