Kratom Questions for those who have used Kratom long term (a year or more) especially for mental health

[Mycophile]

The last few days I was all manic and high on Kratom and thinking how great it would be to just be on it all the time for the most part but become a "master at tapering" so I can get off whenever I want, but I have to ask:

1) Since I know I would almost certainly allow my dosages to get higher over time (this also means I'd no longer be using extracts, which I am doing now), isn't there the very real possibility that I could get in deeper than I expected and then not be able to get myself to really taper off when I want to?

A) I mean, how much harder is it really to taper off of, or simply cold turkey stop, lets say, a 15 gram a day habit you've had for 1 year vs a 5 gram habit you've had for one month?

I know that the answer would be somewhat subjective, and I have gone through WD when I was stupidly taking like 30 grams a day (but I wasn't on those doses for more than a week, I'd just keep stopping and going through WD and then resuming) but is it really a lot harder to stop when you've been dependent on it for longer and at higher doses?

And I'm particularly talking even more about THE LENGTH of the habit.

B) Even if the dose is the same, will the WDs be THAT much worse if you stop a 10 gram a day habit that you've had for 6 months vs one you've had for one month? Is there a point where you feel that the WDs don't necessarily get worse cause they're already as bad as they can get?

Again, the only reason I don't know these answers is cause for years I've had this pretty weird habit of only using like a few days in a row, then stopping and getting WD and getting through it, then waiting a bit and starting again, rinse and repeat. I've never actually tried to taper. It's always been cold turkey.

But if I could really learn to taper and be confident in it, maybe I could allow myself to use Kratom as a medication where I can be on it for like a month or two at a time before tapering for a break.

I just want to know if I'm fooling myself or not, because if the potential WD eventually won't get worse past a certain point then I might as well stay on longer before the inevitable break and enjoy the benefits.

Perhaps it does get worse if you've had a longer and bigger habit but some of you guys taper off before it gets to the point, or else you are used to stronger opioids (I'm NOT) so it doesn't really bother you?

 

[CfZrx]

I don't want bad long term effects. Like, I'll openly admit that I've developed some bladder issues where I wake up to piss like 3 times a night, and SOME people have theorized that this is because of Kratom and that it damages the bladder. There are posts on here where people say that it does this, but does it really? Could my bladder issues be unrelated? (And it's NOT BPH. I've had it checked with a urologist).

Idk, I used the shit out of kratom with zero negative consequences. The legal side is a bit terrifying with the current US admin. Never good to have a couple kilos of sched 1 type dope (how they see it, not me) .

I've been off the stuff for multiple years now. When I switched from MSContin to methadone I quit kratom. No WD whatsoever, although methadone is a he;lluva drug

 

[Mycophile]

Idk, I used the shit out of kratom with zero negative consequences. The legal side is a bit terrifying with the current US admin. Never good to have a couple kilos of sched 1 type dope (how they see it, not me) .

I've been off the stuff for multiple years now. When I switched from MSContin to methadone I quit kratom. No WD whatsoever, although methadone is a he;lluva drug

Yeah, for me it's definitely best to have as many kilos as possible. The legal side is scary. In my state it seems to be ok, but I'm really not so sure that the AKA's idea of going after 7-OH is going to work. They think that lawmakers will be like "oh, see, they are being reasonable because that stuff is even too addictive for them so that actually must mean that the kind they support isn't that bad."

In reality, lawmakers probably just see "AKA is now agreeing that ALL Kratom is bad so lets ban ALL of it." They won't recognize the differences.

 

[Mycophile]

The last few days I was all manic and high on Kratom and thinking how great it would be to just be on it all the time for the most part but become a "master at tapering" so I can get off whenever I want, but I have to ask:

1) Since I know I would almost certainly allow my dosages to get higher over time (this also means I'd no longer be using extracts, which I am doing now), isn't there the very real possibility that I could get in deeper than I expected and then not be able to get myself to really taper off when I want to?

A) I mean, how much harder is it really to taper off of, or simply cold turkey stop, lets say, a 15 gram a day habit you've had for 1 year vs a 5 gram habit you've had for one month?

I know that the answer would be somewhat subjective, and I have gone through WD when I was stupidly taking like 30 grams a day (but I wasn't on those doses for more than a week, I'd just keep stopping and going through WD and then resuming) but is it really a lot harder to stop when you've been dependent on it for longer and at higher doses?

And I'm particularly talking even more about THE LENGTH of the habit.

B) Even if the dose is the same, will the WDs be THAT much worse if you stop a 10 gram a day habit that you've had for 6 months vs one you've had for one month? Is there a point where you feel that the WDs don't necessarily get worse cause they're already as bad as they can get?

Again, the only reason I don't know these answers is cause for years I've had this pretty weird habit of only using like a few days in a row, then stopping and getting WD and getting through it, then waiting a bit and starting again, rinse and repeat. I've never actually tried to taper. It's always been cold turkey.

But if I could really learn to taper and be confident in it, maybe I could allow myself to use Kratom as a medication where I can be on it for like a month or two at a time before tapering for a break.

I just want to know if I'm fooling myself or not, because if the potential WD eventually won't get worse past a certain point then I might as well stay on longer before the inevitable break and enjoy the benefits.

Perhaps it does get worse if you've had a longer and bigger habit but some of you guys taper off before it gets to the point, or else you are used to stronger opioids (I'm NOT) so it doesn't really bother you?

Could someone else please respond to this post?

Sorry, I'm just still trying to make some new decisions about whether I'd like Kratom to have a bigger role in my life and talking to people will help me decide (I really would and would generally like to take it daily for extended periods even though I'd probably frequently have periods off it as well).

 

[cnnka]

Look don’t over complicate it. Kratom had WD’s as any other opioid . If you take it for months years and you cold turkey it you’re probably going to have some , but those aren’t so bad to always think about them , a week max of light sickness and you’re done with them there’s no comparison with other opioids.

 

[Mycophile]

Look don’t over complicate it. Kratom had WD’s as any other opioid . If you take it for months years and you cold turkey it you’re probably going to have some , but those aren’t so bad to always think about them , a week max of light sickness and you’re done with them there’s no comparison with other opioids.

Yeah, I know, I've done Kratom a lot over the years, but I still would like some opinions of long term users.

Like, do you think that if you have a 15 gram a day habit for one month that the WD will be about the same severity and length to get over it as if you have that habit for a year?

I'd personally think it would be the same right?

 

[CfZrx]

Yeah, I know, I've done Kratom a lot over the years, but I still would like some opinions of long term users.

Like, do you think that if you have a 15 gram a day habit for one month that the WD will be about the same severity and length to get over it as if you have that habit for a year?

I'd personally think it would be the same right?

I don't get taking more than a teaspoon or two. It never seemed much different to me than when I took 4 teaspoons. In my experience, you get as much as you're going to get from kratom in 1 tsp. Kind of like how you dont get much more buzz from a dose of suboxone above 6mg.

 

[cnnka]

Yeah, I know, I've done Kratom a lot over the years, but I still would like some opinions of long term users.

Like, do you think that if you have a 15 gram a day habit for one month that the WD will be about the same severity and length to get over it as if you have that habit for a year?

I'd personally think it would be the same right?

Yeah I thinks the severity of the WD would be the same , maybe you have more psychological issue with the longer period but as far as WD and sickness I think would be the same.

 

[cnnka]

I don't get taking more than a teaspoon or two. It never seemed much different to me than when I took 4 teaspoons. In my experience, you get as much as you're going to get from kratom in 1 tsp. Kind of like how you dont get much more buzz from a dose of suboxone above 6mg.

Before tolerance set it I could definitely feel “higher” with higher dosage. That’s why you’re “chasing the dragon” and you keep upping dosages. I started with 3-4 grams I ended with 15-17grams plus 200mg MIT extract

 

[CfZrx]

I started with 3-4 grams I ended with 15-17grams plus 200mg MIT extract

Holy balls dude!

 

[cnnka]

Yes, the amount was very large and the taste was really disgusting. The funny thing was that because I couldn’t stand the taste, I used to put a clothespin on my nose while I was drinking the kratom
When I also found the MIT extract, I went overboard. The paradox was that no matter how much I took, I couldn’t get high at all, so I ended up quitting it.

And the other thing it does someone could say it’s good or bad. When I was taking another opioid, it would block it even 24 hours later that is, the poppy pod tea I made never hit me the way it should have.

 

[General alcazar]

To address the bladder question, kratom is a strong diuretic for me, and sometimes cause urinary retention like other opiates. I don’t feel like it has caused bladder damage, and when I’ve stopped the diuretic effects go away. It certainly doesn’t destroy bladder walls like ketamine does.
As far as stopping, tapering, while keeping a log of how much you use and when (to keep you honest), is the way to go. I’ve been using kratom off and on for about 20 yeasts, and each time I’ve stopped, the withdrawals are worse and last longer, and I don’t think I could handle cold turkey. Last time I stopped, I suffered months of PAWS. In some ways, that was worse than acute withdrawals. I don’t like being dependent on anything, but kratom levels out my moods and helps me not abuse other drugs and alcohol. I’ve decided im better off with than without it, and given how cheap it is in bulk, its not a financial burden. If it becomes illegal, I’ll probably stop for good.

 

[Mycophile]

Yeah I thinks the severity of the WD would be the same , maybe you have more psychological issue with the longer period but as far as WD and sickness I think would be the same.

Thanks. And I guess you probably also think the WD would be likely to last approximately the same amount of time, give or take?

 

[Mycophile]

I don't get taking more than a teaspoon or two. It never seemed much different to me than when I took 4 teaspoons. In my experience, you get as much as you're going to get from kratom in 1 tsp. Kind of like how you dont get much more buzz from a dose of suboxone above 6mg.

I personally disagree because it's all entirely dependent upon what your body is used to (at least in my experience). If you are used to a really high dose then that's what will feel best to you.

Like I had a point in time years ago where every one of my doses was 9 grams and that dose would get me exactly where I wanted to get. If I took less I wouldn't feel as good and if I took more I'd start to feel bad. But then eventually I allowed my tolerance to get EVEN HIGHER and there was a point where it was 11 grams and less than that didn't feel good and more felt bad.

Simply to say "a teaspoon or two" doesn't at all take tolerance into account. At least, that has been my experience.

 

[Mycophile]

To address the bladder question, kratom is a strong diuretic for me, and sometimes cause urinary retention like other opiates. I don’t feel like it has caused bladder damage, and when I’ve stopped the diuretic effects go away. It certainly doesn’t destroy bladder walls like ketamine does.
As far as stopping, tapering, while keeping a log of how much you use and when (to keep you honest), is the way to go. I’ve been using kratom off and on for about 20 yeasts, and each time I’ve stopped, the withdrawals are worse and last longer, and I don’t think I could handle cold turkey. Last time I stopped, I suffered months of PAWS. In some ways, that was worse than acute withdrawals. I don’t like being dependent on anything, but kratom levels out my moods and helps me not abuse other drugs and alcohol. I’ve decided im better off with than without it, and given how cheap it is in bulk, its not a financial burden. If it becomes illegal, I’ll probably stop for good.

Oh shit. I'm sorry to hear that and I REALLY don't like hearing that when you stopped it kept feeling worse and worse.

Is that how everyone here feels?

Do ALL OF YOU feel worse each time you take a break than the previous time?

Cause if so, that is a major factor that would probably make me not want to just allow myself to become dependent in order to treat my anxiety and depression. That's what I'm worried about.

I mean the other guy said he thought if you took a certain number of grams daily for a month then it would feel about the same to withdraw from that amount daily for a year.

Do you NOT feel that way?

And when you experienced the PAWS, were you capable of being functional at the same time, like working the same amount of hours as usual and exercising etc? Cause I LOVE Kratom and how much it helps with my mood but I CANNOT allow that to happen. It's fear of stuff like that that has kept me NOT consistently staying on Kratom over the years and just forcing myself to go through WD over and over again.

And I mean, aside from the PAWS, did you not feel like you were able to get rid of a significant amount of the discomfort by slowly tapering?

Cause I don't get why you wouldn't be able to.

This post is REALLY making me reconsider my idea of letting myself become dependent...

Also, do you think there could potentially be a middle ground of some kind between being totally dependent daily and just using it sporadically like I've been?

Cause it's just getting to be ridiculous. I use for a few days, then I get scared of dependency and stop and go through WD, then eventually start again. It's getting very tiresome.

 

[cnnka]

Thanks. And I guess you probably also think the WD would be likely to last approximately the same amount of time, give or take?

Yeah give or take based on you biochemistry at the time.

Beware I also see you said that you use it to treat anxiety and depression, I used it for the same reasons but in the long run it made them worse and on the WD the anxiety was out of hand.

 

[Mycophile]

Yeah give or take based on you biochemistry at the time.

Beware I also see you said that you use it to treat anxiety and depression, I used it for the same reasons but in the long run it made them worse and on the WD the anxiety was out of hand.

Yeah, that's a concern. I mean, like I said, I've withdrawn from it more times than I can count over the past 11 years cause I'm always afraid to let myself get too dependent which is why I started this thread. So I know I can manage the WDs, but I also take Klonopin which makes them easier to get through. I never get anxiety from the WD but I do get depression.

But you didn't find that slowly tapering off was able to help you avoid the worst symptoms?

Cause that's what I'm trying to find out in order to figure out if I want to let Kratom have a bigger role in my life.

And have you completely quit Kratom now? If so, how long were you on it for, and why did you stop?

Did you feel that in the end it wasn't worth it even though it did help you anxiety? If so, why didn't it feel worth it?

There's also this new research chemical SR-17018 that you can see from the other thread. I've never tried it but I'm interested cause they say it totally eliminates WD, but I'm wondering if it's safe or has any negative interactions with the meds I take, and I doubt anyone will even know cause it seems to be very new.

 

[CfZrx]

Like I had a point in time years ago where every one of my doses was 9 grams and that dose would get me exactly where I wanted to get. If I took less I wouldn't feel as good and if I took more I'd start to feel bad. But then eventually I allowed my tolerance

I personally disagree because it's all entirely dependent upon what your body is used to (at least in my experience). If you are used to a really high dose then that's what will feel best to you.

Like I had a point in time years ago where every one of my doses was 9 grams and that dose would get me exactly where I wanted to get. If I took less I wouldn't feel as good and if I took more I'd start to feel bad. But then eventually I allowed my tolerance to get EVEN HIGHER and there was a point where it was 11 grams and less than that didn't feel good and more felt bad.

Simply to say "a teaspoon or two" doesn't at all take tolerance into account. At least, that has been my experience.

Maybe if I hadn't ended up on methadone, and then buprenorphine I too would have escalated my kratom dose? I do recall giving up on kratom as soon as I was blessed with these powerful opioids for chronic pain. Once in a while I drop a teaspoon. I would have to do it more often to tell if it actually has an effect. My dream is that the kratom has an effect even with a 16mg/day bupe habit. Like maybe kratom's different pharmacology touches on receptors left untouched by lord bupe?

 

[Mycophile]

Maybe if I hadn't ended up on methadone, and then buprenorphine I too would have escalated my kratom dose? I do recall giving up on kratom as soon as I was blessed with these powerful opioids for chronic pain. Once in a while I drop a teaspoon. I would have to do it more often to tell if it actually has an effect. My dream is that the kratom has an effect even with a 16mg/day bupe habit. Like maybe kratom's different pharmacology touches on receptors left untouched by lord bupe?

You are the 2nd person in this thread to mention getting on methadone to get off Kratom, and it doesn't make sense to me because Meth and Bupe are so much stronger than Kratom that you are only putting yourself in a worse situation.

Did a doctor make you get on Methadone/Suboxone? Did you try to taper, and if not, why not?

Or was the Methadone for something like heroin but you just also used Kratom?

I still can't decide based on the answers people have given whether I should let Kratom have a bigger role in my life and maybe run an experiment where I let myself get dependent for a couple weeks in order to practice tapering off. It seems like if I get confident in tapering that I could then just let myself get dependent, which is what I'd like to do since I love Kratom so much. But people keep saying that the more times they quit the worse the WDs get. At the same time though, some are saying the WD doesn't necessarily get any worse depending on duration.

Like one person said they thought that a 15 gram a day habit you've had for a year would probably not have worse WD than the same dose for one month.

I feel like I should be able to decide after all these years, but I still can't cause I'm always starting and stopping and have never let myself get dependent for more than like a week. Maybe I should just run the 2-week then taper experiment to see how it is for me.

 

[chippermonk]

Cause it's just getting to be ridiculous. I use for a few days, then I get scared of dependency and stop and go through WD, then eventually start again. It's getting very tiresome.

Are you sure this is withdrawal that you are going through after only a couple days ? Seems like it would take more time for actual withdrawal to develop. On the other hand stopping after a few days could certainly induce craving, feeling crappy, a hangover resulting from out of whack neurotransmitters, etc ( asking for a friend )