Phenethylamines 2C-B, worth trying on its own?

[emkee_reinvented]

This substance is very dose sensitive. Make sure you have a milligram scale.

10 mg is sweet, 15 mg for me meant enter cartoon-land.
Very steep curve, always had people take 5 mg and then decide.
Do i want a bit more.

Well dosed its nice, but i prefer 2C-T2 or 2C-E else. both 10 mg over 2C-B

Edit: correct in NL 1 -st in the RC scene, and forbidden, that it was already in sexshops.
Wish i knew, real brand Nexus.

 

[4DQSAR]

Edit: correct in NL 1 -st in the RC scene, and forbidden, that it was already in sexshops.
Wish i knew, real brand Nexus.

Well it was a 'smartshop' but it wasn't far from de oude kirk in Amsterdam so I ASSUME a lot of local outlets had it.

I don't think I went into a sexshop because I didn't want to be treated as some 'idiot British tourist' and although I would need to LIVE in The Netherlands, I think in 3-4 months I could get beck to where I was and in maybe in a years just speak Dutch BADLY I can listen better than I can speak, read better than I write (although I do know when to use 'het and when to use de' and always, always to use 'u' in place of 'je' so although I'm an idiot, at least the person I'm talking to thinks I'm a polite idiot...

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I don't think I went into a sexshop because I didn't want to be treated as some 'idiot British tourist' and although I would need to LIVE in The Netherlands, I think in 3-4 months I could get beck to where I was and in maybe in a years just speak Dutch BADLY I can listen better than I can speak, read better than I write (although I do know when to use 'het and when to use de' and always, always to use 'u' in place of 'je' so although I'm an idiot, at least the person I'm talking to thinks I'm a polite idiot...

Never knew 2C-B was sold , brand name real deal 'Nexus' from South-Africa.
before appearing as a RC, would i have known. I would entered a Sexshop.

For drugs i will do thing s, i d never consider,
like going in for a Porn mag or Dildo orso. Embarrassing thought.
And there was no internet yet, so lil to no porn.

eMKee

How come you seem healed after you seizure s, re-learning English.
Or is this just my assumption, you come over, not as scattered as me.

 

[4DQSAR]

I ended up in specialist neuroligical unit (possibly the most famous on in the nation and a damned long drive for my wife) and my wife asked the consultan who said it was quite common. I have also had dreams in Dutch where I was lost and everyone I could talk to could only speak Dutch.

It was odd rather than scary. She could undersrand me so she had to interpret into English.

They injected me with a couple of different medicines designed to stop seizures and it made no difference whatsoever. I really WISH I could switch off my English as clearly the memories of every Dutch word I ever heard were available to me. I managed to cope in Dutch. But if it takes multiple seizures... I will just re-learn the proper way.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I ended up in specialist neuroligical unit (possibly the most famous on in the nation and a damned long drive for my wife) and my wife asked the consultan who said it was quite common. I have also had dreams in Dutch where I was lost and everyone I could talk to could only speak Dutch.

It was odd rather than scary. She could undersrand me so she had to interpret into English.

They injected me with a couple of different medicines designed to stop seizures and it made no difference whatsoever. I really WISH I could switch off my English as clearly the memories of every Dutch word I ever heard were available to me. I managed to cope in Dutch. But if it takes multiple seizures... I will just re-learn the proper way.

After speaking English 7 day s, my dream s become in English.

So my mate who slept next to me. A super spot we camped, top of a mountain.
We were their with a family, he was acquainted with. So we were part of it.
When i woke first words "Good Morning ... " from my lips, he looked at me and said.

He eMKee, we are Dutch. What s up ? Are you OK.

I was but the effects of the seizures, restraininin me and wrong med s.
Physical takes over 5 year s, mentally i have no idea. With training daily.
And do a lot promoting neuro-plasticity.

But healing the brain is not as easy as the body, wel my experience.
Fueled by lack of a good up to date medical system. 100 year s behind at least.
So i DIY, greeting s eMKee. I ll grab any straw towards healing.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

2c-b is a good one -- I had a friend that fuckin IV'd it which I can't imagine (If I recall that one burns like holy hell if you snort it) but he said it was alot like MDMA mixed with LSD.. Orally it has some empactogen qualities as well.

First RC they made illegal I think? (I'm sure that isn't correct but first I can recall)

The body load is rough with any 2c-x product I have tried. I prefer the nbome but that is an unusual experience.

I guess if you had to compare it then sure.
However imo its pale in comparison to both.

If anything 2cb works fine as something to add to either MD or acid, or a triple threat combo if you have the need.

By its own its a waste of time imo, its just not worth it for me.
The overall buzz is quite meh and the visuals arent enough for me to feel its worthwile doing.

Although i know several people who love the stuff so each to their own.

However the mythical combo of Ketamine and 2cb was quite good.
Overall i prefer lsd with ket, but that can easily go South since the ket can really make the lsd paranoia go into overdrive.
But 2cb has zero mindfuck so the ket doesnt really mess with it.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

After speaking English 7 day s, my dream s become in English.

So my mate who slept next to me. A super spot we camped, top of a mountain.
We were their with a family, he was acquainted with. So we were part of it.
When i woke first words "Good Morning ... " from my lips, he looked at me and said.

He eMKee, we are Dutch. What s up ? Are you OK.

This was 30 year before my seizure s, it reads as if it caused it.
But i think i am indeed bilingual. Like 4DQSAR

I was but the effects of the seizures, restraining me and wrong/ no med s.
Physical takes over 5 year s, mentally i have no idea. With training daily.
And do a lot promoting neuro-plasticity.

But healing the brain is not as easy as the body, wel my experience.
Fueled by lack of a good up to date medical system. 100 year s behind at least.
So i DIY, greeting s eMKee. I ll grab any straw towards healing.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I guess if you had to compare it then sure.
However imo its pale in comparison to both.

If anything 2cb works fine as something to add to either MD or acid, or a triple threat combo if you have the need.

By its own its a waste of time imo, its just not worth it for me.
The overall buzz is quite meh and the visuals arent enough for me to feel its worthwile doing.

Although i know several people who love the stuff so each to their own.

However the mythical combo of Ketamine and 2cb was quite good.
Overall i prefer lsd with ket, but that can easily go South since the ket can really make the lsd paranoia go into overdrive.
But 2cb has zero mindfuck so the ket doesnt really mess with it.

Give the choice a Beer or bump of K, the latter wins by long shot.

So even solo it outbeat s Booze ime, a drug 40 % of NL s population consumes.
I prefer 1cP-MIPLA [novelty], all Lysergic s need s nothing to make em better.
on Lysergic s my Mom alway s assumes i am drunk ?
so to a straight-edger its seems they produce a same sort of image.

In my mother s brain, can t imagine it that they resemble each other, to other s.
But to my Ma they do, offered her a blotter 1cP-MIPLA, offered to be sitter.
She declined, already had stopped smoking then drinking, and last Cannabis.

So straight edge, but less sober/ logical thinking then most on Bluelight.
Seems like you get more stupid when you stop using drugs.
And switch to eating trash, watching telly and lots of sitting.

The only reason i am able to imagine why to stop imo, the money cost.
If it starts becoming more important then food, activity s and family, kid s,
your on a the wrong track. I am not, so why stimulate me to stop.

I take my responsibility s and HQ food over Cannabis.

While being the bad example herself on what can happen.
Would one follow the advise. Getting fat, in active and dumber.

 

[4DQSAR]

Give the choice a Beer or bump of K, the latter wins by long shot.

So even solo it outbeat s Booze ime, a drug 40 % of NL s population consumes.
I prefer 1cP-MIPLA [novelty], needs like all Lysergic s need s nothing to make it better.

Of the lysergamides, I have a reliable report that the 8-allyl was, in there words 'like LSD with training wheels' which I take to mean it doesn't lead people into a bad headspace.

I'm reminded that for DECADES Nick Sands was quite legally producing the (R)-seybutyl momologue of LSD AS LSD and apparently no end user ever noted it not to be LSD.

After all, the O of the amide overlays the O found in the N-BOMes and that the alkyl is just space-filling.

It does seem that only swapping that 8-substituent materially changes the effects. After all, as long is it fits into that lopophilic pocket (as B ring in the NBomes does), it's just a matter of potency... which MAY impact subjective effects, but I doubt in a double-blind study anyone would know.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Of the lysergamides, I have a reliable report that the 8-allyl was, in there words 'like LSD with training wheels' which I take to mean it doesn't lead people into a bad headspace.

I'm reminded that for DECADES Nick Sands was quite legally producing the (R)-seybutyl momologue of LSD AS LSD and apparently no end user ever noted it not to be LSD.

After all, the O of the amide overlays the O found in the N-BOMes and that the alkyl is just space-filling.

It does seem that only swapping that 8-substituent materially changes the effects. After all, as long is it fits into that lopophilic pocket (as B ring in the NBomes does), it's just a matter of potency... which MAY impact subjective effects, but I doubt in a double-blind study anyone would know.

8-Allyl/ (R)-seybutyl momologue of LSD. have to look that up.
Its over my head, ceiling no roof. Found circle round. Al-LAD

Its that LSD is for me hard to get, i d have to go DW, no way.
So i am in the shitty situation comparing is impossible.

But ALD-52 was a gem and i assume way better then LSD.
Easy to tell apart from 1p-LSD, the closest to LSD available.
Like MIPLA is the real sweet version, and with a appealing duration.
For a 1-st timer. All Lysergic s till now been sweet, its just the sweetest.

MIPLA, or the 1Cp version, fits the description 'LSD with training wheels'
Which is a nice vocalisation. Its softer & shorter even then Al-LAD.

 

[4DQSAR]

Sorry - to be clear, Nick Sands didn't alter the 8 position. He just swapped the diethylamine of LSD to R-Sec butyl. But the fact that he was making it for over 22 years sort of suggests nobody noticed. That was the point - he wasn't breaking Canadian law at the time. Of course, that LSD either knowingly or unknowingly (I suggest the latter because I damned well wouldn't MY product to be sold where it was illegal)

I suggest that ALD52 is likely to be nigh on identical. Because it's just a prodrug OF LSD.

As for all of the other amides - the potency varies and so does the metabolism, but it's just space-filling. That's one of the things Ralf Helm MADE the NBomes for - to test if there was some extra site within that lopophilic pocket.

Of course, N-Boms are dengerous, depending largly on the ROA. I don't know exactly why the NBoms can be toxic. Maybe because they also have affinity for other 5HT receptors sush as those in the heart and lungs. But a class I would avoid.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

Of the lysergamides, I have a reliable report that the 8-allyl was, in there words 'like LSD with training wheels' which I take to mean it doesn't lead people into a bad headspace.

I'm reminded that for DECADES Nick Sands was quite legally producing the (R)-seybutyl momologue of LSD AS LSD and apparently no end user ever noted it not to be LSD.

After all, the O of the amide overlays the O found in the N-BOMes and that the alkyl is just space-filling.

It does seem that only swapping that 8-substituent materially changes the effects. After all, as long is it fits into that lopophilic pocket (as B ring in the NBomes does), it's just a matter of potency... which MAY impact subjective effects, but I doubt in a double-blind study anyone would know.

Was that a really complicated explanation for why N-bome did not stress me out in the same way that LSD or shrooms? I definitely found that to be true but wrote it off as situational or having an abundance of benzos -- the situations and access weren't really different with LSD, 2c-i, 2c-b etc, or psylicoibin even? (actually I think I was "Snobbin" shrooms at the time so they are hypothetical)

IF SO -- would this not inevitably lead to more liberal dosing. (Be that a good thing or a bad thing -- prolly bad with things that have toxicity) --- IF I MISUNDERSTOOD THAT -- Well I didn't understand that lol

Damn - more info more questions. ALD52 = LSD prodrug is that not also the case of 1p-lsd (My belief was it was a prodrug also but I never got close enough to do heavy research)

 

[4DQSAR]

Well, ALD was sold as LSD in the US but the prosecution was able to show that there was no known way of making ALD52 without making it from LSD and the defendents were all found guilty.

That's the problem with so many homologues - myths build up around each one of them some how being unique and sellers PLAY on those myths. I suppose the onset of ALD52 would be longer and people have made other amides to keep their products within local laws. I don't know if hydrolysis would be slower or faster but that extra bulk WILL reduce potency.

But if you look at a molecule of DMT you will see it buried within the scaffold of LSD. I'm honestly surprised nobody is producing tryptamines with the same amide groups that would likewise render them legal. After all, they would be products of those tryptamines.

But if, in both cases, major producers were able to sell their products AS LSD with no mention of descent, I figure they are more or less identical - just slightly difference potencies.

It's that 8 substitution that really alters the character of the drug IMO. I mean, I'm careful whose reports I trust and I feel although brief, it said all the important things.

 

[xdrc]

Sorry - to be clear, Nick Sands didn't alter the 8 position. He just swapped the diethylamine of LSD to R-Sec butyl. But the fact that he was making it for over 22 years sort of suggests nobody noticed. That was the point - he wasn't breaking Canadian law at the time. Of course, that LSD either knowingly or unknowingly (I suggest the latter because I damned well wouldn't MY product to be sold where it was illegal)

[...]

Of course, N-Boms are dengerous, depending largly on the ROA. I don't know exactly why the NBoms can be toxic. Maybe because they also have affinity for other 5HT receptors sush as those in the heart and lungs. But a class I would avoid.

Given LSD nomenclature, AL-LAD has a different R6 (not R8) substitution. Furthermore I find your claim of Nick Sands having produced significant quantities of LSB (instead of LSD) very adventurous. Would you be so kind and provide a source for that statement?

Traditional psychedelics are more promiscous than the N-benzylated compounds:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627325004702

And indeed they can show both good receptor specificity and selectivity. They are generally shown to be pretty strong vasoconstrictors though, which can wreak all sorts of havoc (limb ischemia, organ failure -> rhabdomyolysis etc). I've also heard the proposed theory (by Hamilton Morris) that their lack of 5-HT1AR activation (which causes hypothermia) may cause unbalanced hyperthermia from 5-HT2AR activation.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I suggest that ALD52 is likely to be nigh on identical. Because it's just a prodrug OF LSD.

sekio also thought the same.

There was also a recent study that showed that ALD-52 and 1P-LSD and other 1-acyl-LSD analogues are rapidly metabolized to LSD and simply function as prodrugs (I.e. they don't have "magical" effects or anything unusual and are equally likely to cause a bad or good trip as LSD). So even if you did form any sort of addition product to the aromatic nitrogen it would just turn back to LSD anyway.

On the other hand:

Sandoz labs suggested that ALD-52 might actually have advantages over LSD, reducing any side effects but achieving a stronger trip.
Measurements of brain waves while people were taking the two drugs showed that while LSD produced brain waves associated with intense concentration and anxiety, ALD-52 produced brain waves showing a more relaxed mental state.

ALD-52 is listed as having a lower (approximately 1/5) intravenous toxicity (in rabbits), a lower approximately one eighth pyretogenic effect, and double the "antiserotonin" effect as compared with LSD.

 

[xdrc]

https://analyticalsciencejournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/dta.3767

This is an interesting open access article about 1-ac prodrugs.

@Allylbenzene not sure why you are highlighting the AL-LAD, as this is of course different from LSD in that it is not a pro-drug, but simply has different R6 substitution (allyl instead of methyl). So of course one would expect different effects.

With that being said, before hydrolysis the 1-acylated compounds also seem to be weak partial agonists of 5-HT2A, and of course the rate of hydrolysis and distribution in the body (due to differences in polarity with the longer alkyl chains) may have a significant influence on the come-up and thus overall nature of the experience.

 

[Allylbenzene]

@Allylbenzene not sure why you are highlighting the AL-LAD, as this is of course different from LSD in that it is not a pro-drug, but simply has different R6 substitution (allyl instead of methyl). So of course one would expect different effects.

Agreed, in hindsight the post I quoted was responding to someone else.

I’ve always had difficulty differentiating LSD from ALD-52 from AL-LAD

Surprised you can't tell AL-LAD apart from LSD, that's crazy to me. Though I have never taken that much. To me the visuals are dramatically different, not much like LSD at all. And the trip is more wacky-confusing-hilarious. The visuals are a dead giveaway to me, though.

 

[4DQSAR]

Given LSD nomenclature, AL-LAD has a different R6 (not R8) substitution. Furthermore I find your claim of Nick Sands having produced significant quantities of LSB (instead of LSD) very adventurous. Would you be so kind and provide a source for that statement?

I believe I read it in a book called 'A History of LSD' which is sadly out of print BUT I'm hoping another BLer will have just to confirm that detail. In fact, the logo at the top of the page is almost certainly inspired by the cover of that book, so similar are the designs.

It would be a jolly odd thing to invent the (R)-sec butyl amine specifically as so many, maoieties that fill that lipohiloc pocket. Nick sands did it because it was legal within Canada. If you go back and check the period NS was working in Canada, the homologue was both known and yet uncontrolled so it makes logical sense.

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear enough to you that it was the amide substitution that was modified. But I would consider swapping the amide to be a homologue, altering the 8 substitution an analog. In fact looking back, I in fact DID make the difference clear... but not to your satisfaction,, it seems.

Maybe read the thread from the beginning? We did cover a lot of ground?

BTW is that data in vivo or in vitro? I only ask because in vivo models often do a bad job in showing what subjective effects will be in man. Or even effects non-subjective effecr on man given that the human body is packed with enzymes designed to remove what it consideres to be 'poisons'. I do say this to all in vitro models presented to me, I'm not making a personal insult. Far from it.

 

[xdrc]

Of the lysergamides, I have a reliable report that the 8-allyl was, in there words 'like LSD with training wheels' which I take to mean it doesn't lead people into a bad headspace.

Just to confirm, in this case you mean AL-LAD, not some strange N-allyl amide? If so, your numbering is off - AL-LAD is 6-substituted.

And of course I know which compound you mean with the (R)-sec-butyl amide. I'll try to hunt down your reference though, although I'm not sure if I want to believe that. It seems like Nick Sands never really had much qualms about breaking the law, so I hardly believe he wouldn't make the real deal, which is more conserving of the precursor anyways, due to greater potency.

Regarding that other data, to cite from the paper:
"It is important to note that all functional assays in this study were conducted using reconstituted systems, BRET-based biosensors, and in non-neuronal cell lines. While these systems provide precise, quantifiable insights into receptor transducer coupling and ligand bias, they may not fully capture the complexity of signaling networks present in native tissues. Therefore, the pharmacological properties observed in vitro could be more complex in vivo."

 

[xdrc]

According to Hammilton Morris at around 6:10 mins into this interview with David Nichols it was R-LSB (lysergic acid seth-Butalimide???? Compound)
Was being made by nick sands in Canada not Tim scully but that's fairly decent evidence that sands was tinkering with or producing analogs at least back in the day....and this were being distributed all over North America not just Canada....and I can say with absolute certainty that on one of the first dates with my future wife we picked up a few hits of 2 different prints of acid from a dealer we used to know decades ago ....one was red hieroglyphic print the other was blue print of Simpsons characters....if memory serves correct it was the red hieroglyphic tabs thst were purely tactile and made us both super horny....zero visuals or head Space but everytine she touched me it was pure pleasure and the sex was indescribable. She kept saying this acid feels exactly like mdma and I'd never tried mdma at that point in my life yet but I always wondered what the fuck was on those red tabs...I think we each only did 2 tabs each but it was pure hedonism with almost no typical psychedelia so im leaning towards the idea that it's quite possible lsd analogs were in circulation at least as far back as the 90s or more.

^here is something about that LSB... Who is the author of the book you mentioned? I can't find a book with that exact title. I'd certainly believe Sand making some LSB, but I'm doubtful of him dropping LSD production entirely for that one.

Also I'm sorry for the off-topic, but this is all really interesting yet has not much to do anymore with 2C-B...