• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ
  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

Phenethylamines 2C-B, worth trying on its own?

I suspect that the duration of action of a particular compound is an important factor where tolerance is concerned. So not surprisingly, short things like 2C-B and mushrooms are not associated with causing tolerance nearly as much as long things like LSD. I'm not saying duration is the only factor, but it's probably a pretty good rule of thumb that longer and/or more intense trips will cause more tolerance that also lasts longer.
Imo how heavily the compound desensitizes the G coupled protein receptors it signals through, tolerance won't form. That's how I currently understand tolerance formation with psychedelics at least. 25I-NBOMe can sometimes be 5-6 hours, but induces a 3-4 week tolerance, for example. Also allylescaline creates no tolerance in myself or my fiance (only administered it to one other person, once). Allylescaline is an 8-12 hour trip typically.
 
I've never tasted 2CB but am I correct in thinking it much like 2CI?

I have no idea how 2CB is being produced now but someone highlighted an interesting set of instrumental data which showed samples of 2CB which had positional isomers in it i.e. the -Br wasn't always at the 4 position. I don't know if the impurity is dangerous nor if it is psychoactive, but it was in there.

Now I come to look at the original synthesis as described in PiHKAL, it mentions that the bromination is exothermic which would be a barrier to scaling. So possibly cooks are using other modes of bromination? That is entirely a guess on my part but I have seen many examples of when something becomes much more popular and scaling introduced different syntheses, there were likewise impurities in the final product.
 
Imo how heavily the compound desensitizes the G coupled protein receptors it signals through, tolerance won't form. That's how I currently understand tolerance formation with psychedelics at least. 25I-NBOMe can sometimes be 5-6 hours, but induces a 3-4 week tolerance, for example. Also allylescaline creates no tolerance in myself or my fiance (only administered it to one other person, once). Allylescaline is an 8-12 hour trip typically.

I think you are describing what is called receptor down-regulation. When down-regulated, receptors tend to actually physically move below the interfacial surface. Furthermore, receptors in a down-regulated state have a chance of being permanently destroyed, which leads to long-term desensitization. Technically, down-regulation leads to called tachyphylaxis but we here tend to call it "short-term tolerance" or something like that. Presumably this is why it is difficult to re-dose to boost a trip unless it's done very early on. An interesting feature of 5-HT2A is that most antagonists cause down-regulation just like agonists do. It's not clear whether any agonism is possible with down-regulation and tachyphylaxis. Another question is whether different agents can affect how long down-regulation persists, or if the timing is fixed---i.e. something like 3 days for 80% recovery or whatever.

Tolerance may be caused by many things though, and not just receptor down-regulation. Moreover, sometimes what appears to be drug tolerance is actually a more comprehensive shift in how the hormonal and signaling systems work. I.e., some tolerance manifests not just from desensitization of the particular receptor(s) but also by compensatory effects that arise throughout the various biological (sub-)systems that these drugs effect. These kinds of effects are likely to vary much more between different subjects because the drug use which induced it is taking these systems further from the state(s) that they evolved to handle.

Having said that, I want to point out that even if we consider only tachyphylaxis, any kind of model seeking to predict tolerance would necessarily factor in intensity (presumably correlating with the receptor occupancy fraction) and duration of effect. A successful model would have to be bit more complicated given that rapid-downregulation / tachyphylaxis llikely has a big impact on perceived intensity versus actual receptor occupancy fraction, but hopefully I've gotten my point across.

So I guess your contrary examples suggest that different compounds have widely different innate tendencies to induce both tachyphylaxis and longer-term tolerances. I tend to be quite skeptical of claims of any psychedelics not inducing tolerance at all. Maybe DMT is an exception? But some people do report tolerance with DMT if using repeatedly in a single day. That said, I think your examples actually suggest that tolerance is a much more complicated picture after all. Interactions at other receptors may be very important here, and it may be very difficult to untangle all the different possibilities between compounds. So does something like allylscaline really not cause down-regulation? Or is there something else going on that's counter-acting those consequences?

There's lots to think about here.

I've never tasted 2CB but am I correct in thinking it much like 2CI?

They are both 2C-series drugs, but otherwise I think they are quite different. Assuming you've had 2C-I before, I would say 2C-B is lighter, more forgiving, a lot less stimulating, and more empathogenic. I think it's maybe less visual at "typical" doses when compared to 2C-I, but I understand it can still provider strong visuals at high enough doses.
 
I have no idea how 2CB is being produced now but someone highlighted an interesting set of instrumental data which showed samples of 2CB which had positional isomers in it i.e. the -Br wasn't always at the 4 position. I don't know if the impurity is dangerous nor if it is psychoactive, but it was in there.
I've seen 2-bromo-4,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine as an impurity in pills here and there now. But I don't think you mean that? This of course would not be due to unselective synthesis but rather what I suspect to be cut precursor (veratraldehyde, 3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine).
 
It is definitely worth trying on it's own for a mild psychedelic experience. For a more intense one, it is great with either weed, shrooms, or ketamine.
 
Top