Alcohol Alcohol vs. Benzos. Which one is more euphoric/awesome?

[JackARoe]

I guess I can throw out an opinion. The first few minutes of taking some strong alcohol can be very euphoric. Then the rest of the night trying to get back to those moments. But it ends up me being dehydrated and have a headache.

Benzos are a switch for me to sleep. That is all. I honestly do not even like being awake on a benzo as the sparkle of life is taken away. However when life is that tiring a benzo and sleep works for me.

Always been interested in the amnesia part. Even a small dose of a benzo gives me amnesia. That sort of turns me off. Something that does not give much feeling but can take away recall of memory. But for sleep on occasion I will take a small dose of a benzo.

Also recently been given a bottle of liquid lorazepam. Nurse sent a new comfort package and told me to throw out the old. (yeah right). But I can now say I would not be able to tell lorazepam from alprazolam or diazepam except for the time it lasts. They all do the same for me. But I like that lorazepam is out of the body quickly unlike diazepam.

@emkee_reinvented ever since you told the story of diazepam lasting a few weeks in you I consider that even with one dose. I will take a dose and then that is it and I consider all the metabolites working for 10-15 days with diazepam.

 

[Esperighanto]

I guess I can throw out an opinion. The first few minutes of taking some strong alcohol can be very euphoric. Then the rest of the night trying to get back to those moments. But it ends up me being dehydrated and have a headache.

Benzos are a switch for me to sleep. That is all. I honestly do not even like being awake on a benzo as the sparkle of life is taken away. However when life is that tiring a beno and sleep works for me.

Always been interested in the amnesia part. Even a small dose of a benzo gives me amnesia. That sort of turns me off. Something that does not give much feeling but can take away recall of memory. But for sleep on occasion I will take a small dose of a benzo.

Also recently been given a bottle of liquid lorazepam. Nurse sent a new comfort package and told me to throw out the old. (yeah right). But I can now say I would not be able to tell lorazepam from alprazolam or diazepam except for the time it lasts. They all do the same for me. But I like that lorazepam is out of the body quickly unlike diazepam.

@emkee_reinvented ever since you told the story of diazepam lasting a few weeks in you I consider that even with one dose. I will take a dose and then that is it and I consider all the metabolites working for 10-15 days with diazepam.

I was prescribed Lorazepam as a teenager, developed a taste for benzos from the street almost immediately, and have intermittently used them since I was about 13 or 14 years old. The more I've used them without building tolerance or kindling, the less sedative and less amnesic they've become. I've often suspected there's a strange sort of cognitive acclimation, where whatever "cognitive muscle" you figuratively need to flex to resist those side effects becomes easier to apply. My apologies for the somewhat confusing wording, I've never heard a term for it outside of Crowley's term "will to power", but there's far more attached to that phrase than what I'm talking about.

Many people claim that not only different benzos, but also cannabinoids are identical to them except for identification. Back when I was laying sheets of THC-O[H/B/P/P-O] and giving them to my friends to test, some people could distinguish them in blinded tests and some others couldn't, and it aligned with the folks who claimed that all strains also felt the same. Something else in common, they all became overwhelmed by cannabinoids at a lower dose than others, IDK if there's a meaningful relationship there but there might be.

Between Alprazolam, Lorazepam, and Diazepam I personally find a huge difference, Alprazolam makes me do stupid shit like trying to backflip off a picnic bench (I can't do backflips), or climbing exposed rock faces until I'm 40' up and realize I've got no way down. Lorazepam I actually have a tough time distinguishing from Ambien as the hallucinations are almost identical to me (Nervewing also reported Lorazepam hallucinations iirc), and Diazepam feels like a ray of sunshine has been cast over my life for multiple days after using it.

On the subject of Diazepam's metabolites, the super long lasting one is called Bromonordiazepam, aka Desalkylgidazepam, and it's often been available as an RC. It has a half life ~3.5 days, I personally stop noticing it a full week after administration. The rush from insufflating it is also really peculiar, intense, and unexpected. As far as the metabolic conversion of Diazepam into that substance though, some people have enzymatic profiles where that conversion happens much more (or less) than others, causing the time between administration and drug testing for Diazepam to fade being very unpredictable from person to person.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I find this super interesting, to me alcohol is almost exclusively dysphoric whereas benzos and GHB are almost exclusively euphoric. Also wanted to mention that GHB and clomethiazole have a very narrow therapeutic index, the differences between feeling it and dying from it are very small amounts as far as dose goes.

Why i mentioned in- patient, take homes of these in wrong hands. Not wise.
Probably when they used these it was in-patient, not Keith Moon style.
But that must have been in the 70-ties.

But when in a DETOX, why not ? Diazepam is bullshit, besides preventing a seizure.
It cover s none of the WD symptom s, only sedates you through em.

It was perfect for cannabis cessation. Had no WD from that !
Diazepam work s 3 week long. Day i left [17 so 13 days after the last Diazepam 10 mg].
Still stoned, my last UC confirmed this. Went home, dissipated round day 21.

 

[chippermonk]

It's interesting how everyone has different reactions to different drugs. How much of it is genetic dispositions, or whatever, I wonder? Because I'm older, I had the opportunity to try barbiturates, quaaludes, placidyl, etc back in the day as well as benzos. None of them had any appeal for me, no euphoria, no pleasure ( except maybe placidyl). I would be impossibly sleepy the following day, felt dull as a bag of rocks. Yet I know others feel very differently and get real pleasure. I have had a few quaaludes sitting around since the 80s, can't even be bothered to touch them.
Alcohol? Yes, euphoria sometimes, and the disinhibition and sociability ( and stupidity) can be fun, but it has never attracted me enough to ever have a habit. These days one beer is really all I desire 99% of the time. It just doesn't trigger anything much for me. In fact sometimes it just makes me feel depressed.
Now opiates and stimulants are truly euphoric. Opiates are a downer, but with a stimulant component, at least as I have used them. A full-on nod just wouldn't appeal to me. It may sound corny to say, but these days my sweet spot is a little kratom and coffee in the morning for that pleasant uplift. I really like the up of kratom. A beer at night to relax.
But I am fascinated when I hear people talk about euphoria from benzos, the distinctions between different ones, because I just don't feel it.

 

[lost weekend]

My friend likes nothing better than after returning from work taking 8 mg of kpins ,kratom powder and no more than 4 small beers.it makes him feel untouchable and gives him a lovely tingle and he can still function perfectly. He has lots of energy never shuts up and gets stuff done ,like buissness paperwork ,he keeps on top of things.he recently went to Thailand where all he could get was fresh kratom leaves which lasted 10 days in fridge hotel and also gabapentin otc which stopped seizeures, when your told withdrawl peaks after 14 days there not lying .my friend says if he goes abroad again it will only be for 7 days .this is his last batch of kpins he is going to start to taper .he said when he returned from holiday he took 4 mg of clonozopam and it was like the first time he ever tried a benzo ,said it was amazing .

 

[pcplease]

On the subject of Diazepam's metabolites, the super long lasting one is called Bromonordiazepam, aka Desalkylgidazepam, and it's often been available as an RC. It has a half life ~3.5 days, I personally stop noticing it a full week after administration. The rush from insufflating it is also really peculiar, intense, and unexpected. As far as the metabolic conversion of Diazepam into that substance though, some people have enzymatic profiles where that conversion happens much more (or less) than others, causing the time between administration and drug testing for Diazepam to fade being very unpredictable from person to person.

no BNDis not a metabolite of diazepam.

"bromonordiazepam" is a metabolite of gidazepam. diazepam has no bromine, in bromonordiazepam, diaz' Cl is swapped for Br. im not sure if there's a common name for diazepam with that straight Cl/Br swap, as gidazepam has some other unique stuff going on in its structure. phenazepam and flubromazepam both share that same bromine position but with subs on the other (aromatic?) ring

 

[JackARoe]

I've often suspected there's a strange sort of cognitive acclimation, where whatever "cognitive muscle" you figuratively need to flex to resist those side effects becomes easier to apply. My apologies for the somewhat confusing wording, I've never heard a term for it outside of Crowley's term "will to power", but there's far more attached to that phrase than what I'm talking about.

Good theory. What I notice with the amnesia is if I am watching a TV show, the next day I can not remember what I watched. But when I rewatch I remember all of it, so it must be some cognitive muscle. Something to do with recall and not just memory. That is enough to keep me occasional. It is unnerving for me.

Lorazepam I actually have a tough time distinguishing from Ambien as the hallucinations are almost identical to me (Nervewing also reported Lorazepam hallucinations iirc), and Diazepam feels like a ray of sunshine has been cast over my life for multiple days after using it.

I had read here that lorazepam can cause hallucinations. So naturally when I came across it I was like cool, a psychedelic benzo. But for me not so. I understand ambien. I have had it 5 times? Twice in a detox 25 years ago. I remember the nurse dispensed the meds and then last call to go outside and smoke. So I took 2 ambien and when we went outside I remember clearly seeing TWO moons. I could concentrate on both too. I did not sleep but an hour but I remember the hallucination. Yeah lorazepam was just like any other benzo for me, can't tell the difference. I have been going back in Other Drugs here at BL as there is a post where someone said they felt a spooky presence with lorazepam. So as I am going back to find that post I notice several other threads on visuals and benzos. But diazepam was mentioned too. Odd, must be some non common effect.

Then again I have heard of people hallucinating off of alcohol too. The old crazy drunk. lol

I grew up in the seconal and quaalude era too. I loved quaaludes. Not all of my friends did. But it was a quick acting short lasting sedative that felt the closest to alcohol. Lasted a short a time too. I had mentioned the story of my friend who's grandfather was a pharmacist. So we use to lift a few seconals and party. Then his mother was switched from seconal to diazepam. We didn't know what to do with it. Felt we had to drink with it to get anything. So at that point downers were out of my life for many years. I would get scripted some one off benzos, triazolam one of my favorites, but we stopped trying to get high on them like we did with the barbs and quaaludes.

 

[Esperighanto]

no BNDis not a metabolite of diazepam.

"bromonordiazepam" is a metabolite of gidazepam. diazepam has no bromine, in bromonordiazepam, diaz' Cl is swapped for Br. im not sure if there's a common name for diazepam with that straight Cl/Br swap, as gidazepam has some other unique stuff going on in its structure. phenazepam and flubromazepam both share that same bromine position but with subs on the other (aromatic?) ring

You're absolutely right here, I got the bromine and chlorine flipped, damn.

I had read here that lorazepam can cause hallucinations. So naturally when I came across it I was like cool, a psychedelic benzo. But for me not so. I understand ambien. I have had it 5 times? Twice in a detox 25 years ago. I remember the nurse dispensed the meds and then last call to go outside and smoke. So I took 2 ambien and when we went outside I remember clearly seeing TWO moons. I could concentrate on both too. I did not sleep but an hour but I remember the hallucination. Yeah lorazepam was just like any other benzo for me, can't tell the difference. I have been going back in Other Drugs here at BL as there is a post where someone said they felt a spooky presence with lorazepam. So as I am going back to find that post I notice several other threads on visuals and benzos. But diazepam was mentioned too. Odd, must be some non common effect.

It doesn't seem common, but I've met others who get this effect from Lorazepam, it's definitely some subset of people who also hallucinate from Ambien. Trust me when I say that Ambien is more worthwhile as a hallucinogen, Lorazepam felt more like a fistful of Benadryl but with an immense peace and tranquility. My friend would knock on the door and I'd welcome him in, and then halfway through conversation without even blinking, he's vanished. Was never even there it turned out.

Once, I was a teenager on hydromorphone and lorazepam, pretty fresh out of a surgery. From my home, I could see a river and a dog park. Looking out of this window felt like using a telescope or microscope, I could zoom in on individual blades of grass, the hairs of individual dogs and people in the dog park. I could not BELIEVE how great it felt to just be a part of society, like the most picturesque bright green grass, blue sky, the clouds falling into themselves in a way I'd never noticed before, nowadays I can replicate that effect with acid. I opened the window to let the beautiful spring air in, then heard my mother tell "[my name] WHAT ARE YOU DOING‽" And that's right when the snow hit me from opening the window, because it was actually the middle of winter in Maine and the park was empty.

 

[lindaA_1]

Alcohol and benzos work similarly — through GABA receptors — but they feel different. Benzos tend to “numb” you, while alcohol can give a bit more euphoria, though it often causes nausea and harms the body. If alcohol makes you feel sick, it could be due to a sensitive stomach or low tolerance. Both substances are addictive, so caution is important

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Anyone else aware of the*Edit* (Shit July) 26th significance? (Or why it had importance at one point) --- The benzo ban in the US "expires" which generally just mean they get scheduled but I retain hope.

What are you talking about? I tried searching but didn't find anything relevant. Don't tell me they are cracking down on benzos like they did with opioids...I will lose my shit.

 

[pcplease]

some benzos were emergency scheduled for like 3 4 5 yrs, idr but etiz, flualp(?), maybe diclaz again.

i dont know what you mean about cracking down on benzos, they already hardly Rx them. RC opis and benzos are around

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

What are you talking about? I tried searching but didn't find anything relevant. Don't tell me they are cracking down on benzos like they did with opioids...I will lose my shit.

the temporary ban was July 26 2023 through Jul 26th 2025 -- it should be expiring. (I may have misunderstood something I'll grab a couple links) "If this order is extended or made permanent, DEA will publish a document in the Federal Register"

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.federalregister.gov

https://www.dea.gov/stories/2023/20...diazepine-drugs-deemed-imminent-hazard-public '

Import and Export Restrictions Imposed on Five Substances | Sandler, Travis & Rosenberg, P.A.

Our daily publication covering trade and customs news in the U.S. and worldwide.

www.strtrade.com

I read they had a meeting about it in April and did not act however I am not finding that right now so take that as hearsay --- its possible they are already perma-illegal and I missed something. The vagueness of these laws is sincerely frustrating. My interpretation is that ban is about to run out and *I* have not SEEN ANYTHING that suggests permanency?

*edit* We should probably quit talking about this immediately if I am correct lol if not -- well that figures

 

[LucidSDreamr]

the temporary ban was July 26 2023 through Jul 26th 2025 -- it should be expiring. (I may have misunderstood something I'll grab a couple links) "If this order is extended or made permanent, DEA will publish a document in the Federal Register"

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.federalregister.gov

https://www.dea.gov/stories/2023/20...diazepine-drugs-deemed-imminent-hazard-public '

Import and Export Restrictions Imposed on Five Substances | Sandler, Travis & Rosenberg, P.A.

Our daily publication covering trade and customs news in the U.S. and worldwide.

www.strtrade.com

I read they had a meeting about it in April and did not act however I am not finding that right now so take that as hearsay --- its possible they are already perma-illegal and I missed something. The vagueness of these laws is sincerely frustrating. My interpretation is that ban is about to run out and *I* have not SEEN ANYTHING that suggests permanency?

*edit* We should probably quit talking about this immediately if I am correct lol if not -- well that figures

Oh so it only applies to RCs?

Thats fine it’s not like scheduling them has ever stopped their trafficking and plus there are plenty of prescribed alternatives.


What is the next legal benzo in the RC scene that isn’t going to be scheduled yet or really on the radar?

 

[pcplease]

its only really when they become banned in china that becomes a problem.


who knows whats on their radar especially w/ the state of the US today. the end goal is to replicate alprazolam. china may do the same methyl to ethyl substitution as with CAS 105470-75-5 "ethylbromazolam" to alpraz, clonazolam, etc. Sad/scary compared to the more intelligently designed (or rather rediscovered RC's we saw 10-15yrs ago) .

 

[4DQSAR]

A decade ago we did the research and realized that certain types and subtypes of the GABA receptors were responsible for almost all the positive an negative effects of ethanol. The physical toxicity and other damage to the body posed by alcohol were quicky ruled out as cental to the 'sought effects' of ethanol.

In short, it's the α1 subunit that is responsible for the negatives (amnesia, ataxia, syncope, loss of executive function and so on) while the α5 unit was resposible for the positives (reduced anxiety, euphoria, muscle relaxant and so on).

With that in mind we first produced a selective α5β1γ1 ligand. Now this emulated 'drunk' impressively well but had a dose-respone issue in that non-dependent alcohol users 'felt' nothing until the dose reached 20mg but 30mg was like someone drinking two bottles of wine in ten minutes.

So a second series code-named 'Supercats' was developed. These are slightly less selective binding to all α5 subunits so was able to simulate anything from a glass of beer to a bottle of vodka (or more). Even at high doses, people were able to put themselves to bed and woke up with no hangover.

So the work is done. It's just that there is no clear path for a novel synthetic compound to get a GSL (general sales licence) and the alcohol industry is vastly powerful and wealthy. Now the compound IS sufficiently water-soluble for it to be presented in solution so the alcohol industry and almost it's entire model could go unchanged BUT at the end of the day - brewers would lose out. So we gave up and moved on.

 

[pcplease]

as someone with cirrhosis and a history of periodical bad/unsustainable bzd habits, it is a real shame that a product like that will go unutilized. but it is awesome/admirable/etc that you spent so much effort on a good cause

 

[marcoman]

Not a fan of alcohol at all. ...maybe have 2 beers, that's it. Oxy and clonaz' is perfect for me. "Clean" and a perfect pain killer and perfect chiller. My Holy Grail. I'm lucky enough to get both scripted from my doc. Fck booze. And the shit is legal. Smh.

 

[4DQSAR]

as someone with cirrhosis and a history of periodical bad/unsustainable bzd habits, it is a real shame that a product like that will go unutilized. but it is awesome/admirable/etc that you spent so much effort on a good cause

Well - we all really believed in the product... but equally we were provided with funding. Not much but sufficient to get the first generation into cohort sizes normally encountered in a Stage 2 drug trial. But the stuff 'failed to reach clinical endpoints' due to that unfortunate dose-response curve. BUT it proved the concept.

Someone DID read out patent so it ended up being sold as Pyeyzolam by RC vendors.

But the second generation 'Supercats' are known only to few and with no patent yet applied for, in theory if someone ever took an interest, it MAY evetually get that GSL... but don't bank on it. Brewing provides 33 million jobs whereas I imagine a dedicated production-line for one of the Supercat compounds would provide more like 200 jobs. So you see the problem here?

ONLY when alcohol is viewed like tobacco can we hope for those multinational alcohol companies to seriously seek an alternative. Which likely won't be in my lifetime. My son has all the data so who knows? HE can get the patent if and when it seems viable.

 

[Esperighanto]

Well - we all really believed in the product... but equally we were provided with funding. Not much but sufficient to get the first generation into cohort sizes normally encountered in a Stage 2 drug trial. But the stuff 'failed to reach clinical endpoints' due to that unfortunate dose-response curve. BUT it proved the concept.

Someone DID read out patent so it ended up being sold as Pyeyzolam by RC vendors.

But the second generation 'Supercats' are known only to few and with no patent yet applied for, in theory if someone ever took an interest, it MAY evetually get that GSL... but don't bank on it. Brewing provides 33 million jobs whereas I imagine a dedicated production-line for one of the compound would provide more like 200 jobs. So you see the problem here?

ONLY when alcohol is viewed like tobacco can we hope for those multinational alcohol companies to seriously seek an alternative. Which likely won't be in my lifetime. My son has all the data so who knows? HE can get the patent if and when it seems viable.

Is there any information on these compounds that I, as a chemist, would be able to peruse somewhere? I was recently reading about the 2,3-benzodiazepines GYKI-____ and they exhibited fascinating effects in pharmacology tests.

 

[4DQSAR]

Is there any information on these compounds that I, as a chemist, would be able to peruse somewhere? I was recently reading about the 2,3-benzodiazepines GYKI-____ and they exhibited fascinating effects in pharmacology tests.

James Cook

Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Chemistry and Biochemistry Education BS in Chemistry with Honors, West Virginia University Ph.D in Organic Chemistry, University of Michigan Positions Held Laboratory Technician, Fikes Chemicals, Nitro, W. Va., l964‑1965 Supervisor of Research Laboratory and...

uwm.edu

Read all the academic papers and patents with this guys name on them.

I personally did not get on with 'Captain Cook' as he has cleverly named himself, but his medicinal chemistry is extremely good. NOT perfect - and that is why we don't get on. The problem is, if YOU are happy to take all of the credit then you equally should take all the criticism. But no, if any mistakes were made, it's some uncredited post doctorate student in his team.

I don't dig that. WE as a team developed our products and not one of us intends to become known. Why would we? It's the product that matters, not the people.

BUT I say again - the guy spent a decade on benzos and got most of them made... not all. But don't mention that, it won't make him happy.