Phenethylamines 2C-B, worth trying on its own?

[Esperighanto]

I find it entirely inacceptable to not be able to choose the dose completely freely, without any increments dictated by pills or half pills.

If the dealer even just said something like "I homogenized the 2C-B into a 3:1 mixture of MSM:2C-B", you'd at least know the ratio you're working with, but as far as I'm aware the practice is just generally quite shady. I get that pressing pills is hard, but filling capsules is not.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

How's the DNM scene in SA?

Haven't dealt with a IRL dealer since 2019 and frankly, never again.

 

[Esperighanto]

Haven't dealt with a IRL dealer since 2019 and frankly, never again.

"Postman's the plug" is a phrase that so perfectly fits the economics surrounding drugs nowadays.

 

[Kmas]

I've been looking for a place to report a couple interesting results from combining 2c-b with other stuff. This thread is alive and active and it's not off topic so it seems like a good place for it. I'll also share my opinion on the topic at hand, I tasted 2c-b for the first time a few months ago. I've done quite a bit of experimentation since then and I feel like I've developed a decent understanding of the stuff.

The first time I tried 2c-b was a party of friends. Initially dosed in the 20 mg range with around 3 redoses at 8-12 mg insufflated. The next morning 3 of us attempted to wake n bake with DMT. We felt the body effects of it, in my arms and legs for instance. It certainly was working but we didn't get any visuals. It was very odd because DMT is supposed to be the one substance that doesn't develop tolerance. I thought this was an interesting discovery worth mentioning. I haven't found any literature on the subject.

I've tried DMT while fully immersed in 2c-b. I didn't find it worthwhile. The visuals were too much, like someone was flipping television channels at high speed. I couldn't focus on any one image long enough to get any benefit. The stream of sensory data was too much and too fast for my brain to analyze. I think DMT by itself has enough visual data to impart. Well, my next step is ingesting a small amount of mushrooms and smoking DMT. The weak MAO inhibitors should create a shroomhuasca that could last an hour or two. Really looking forward to that and I have the ideal mushroom for it. Azurescens which are wonderfully potent and contain a lot of the other enhancer tryptamines that should potentiate the DMT in ways cubensis wouldn't quite reach although reach they will.

This is different to DMT while on a strong dose of ketamine. I had the clearest most beautiful amazing colors and shining crystal psychedelic visuals. It's probably not something to I'd do again because I was sucking air like a fish out of water. I'll forget to breathe on DMT sometimes but this was different. Downright scary and even though the visuals were amazing it wasn't worth death.

I've found insulffating around 10 mg 2c-b while coming down on a psychedelic is a nice way to bring the peak back up again. It doesn't seem to do a thing while peaking. Unlike a lot of people I wasn't impressed combining it with MDMA. It worked but the amount of euphoria wasn't equal to the comedown burn later. It had a greater synergistic effect with MDA, extended the effects past the 'best buy' date but then I slept for 18 hours, 24 out of the next 36. Definintely a price to pay I don't think is worth it.

Especially because 2c-b is such a wonderful trip on it's own. I tend to rank stuff male/female/neutral depending on the effects and feelings the first time I use them. I got a feminine feel from 2c-b. Introspective but social, you can think about and discuss past events and trauma without anxiety. Even though it's energetic and stimulating it's surprisingly mild with an easy comedown. It gives you an emotional freedom that you usually don't have the opporunity or space for.

By itself it's one of the best ever. I love the body stimulation and the head space. I think it could be boring if you're used to large doses of MDMA types or if you want to trip your balls off on acid or mushrooms but it's a different type of substance. Every bit as powerful but in a different way. Many of the benefits of it are subtle.

I have high blood pressure and a few other health problems that have appeared as I've gotten older, it happens. I have to take care of myself practice harm reduction in ways I wouldn't have worried about when I was in my 20s. MDMA and it's allies do a lot of damage. If I use it I need to be in good bodily health and then spend time in the week after eating good and taking care of myself. 2c-b on the other hand does hardly any damage. Has a much safer profile. The heart damage is the main fear but I think you'd have to use large doses frequently.

The effects on serotonin are interesting. I've experimented with DMT as a neurogenic. If I fall asleep after using it I'll have vivid dreams drudging up old memories. After I wake up I'll find myself thinking about events from high school and college I forgot about years ago. I see this as my brain creating new pathways connecting the present to the past. I think it would be great for people with dementia. I don't get the same effect from 2c-b, if it's neurogenic it reacts in a different way.

For me gnashing of teeth is a sign of serotonin toxicity. It's a sure sign of crystal meth use. MDA creates some, MDMA a little. I notice insulfating 2c-b doesn't cause it at first but repeated whiffs will cause mild gnashing. Bad sign and I take it as meaning it's time to quit for a while. It seems to have a self-regulating quality like other psychedelics. As others have said the larger the dose, the more psychedelic, smaller doses are more stimulating and border on hedonistic.

It's fascinating stuff, I've really gotten interested in it. It's one of those things that you look at the ban and it doesn't make any sense. Another example of our society's self destructive impulse we've been seeing a lot recently. Harming the public for the excuse of protecting it. It's something that needs to be studied and understood for many reasons. It's got to have a lot of applications, the most obvious is treating mental illnesses, especially ptsd and other trauma related types. It's flexible in a unique way, a chameleon. I believe it's because of how it reacts to serotonin.

I read it's a partial agonist maybe even an antagonist. I've decided I don't like the effects of sterotonin depletion, it seems like a bad neurotransmitter to mess with. Besides the mood it's connected to vasoconstriction and blood pressure, two things that effect my body strongly compared to almost anyone else reading this. Something to keep in mind as you get older and as your body starts to age.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Gotta boof it

This is the way

 

[Viraldrome]

For me gnashing of teeth is a sign of serotonin toxicity. It's a sure sign of crystal meth use. MDA creates some, MDMA a little. I notice insulfating 2c-b doesn't cause it at first but repeated whiffs will cause mild gnashing. Bad sign and I take it as meaning it's time to quit for a while. It seems to have a self-regulating quality like other psychedelics. As others have said the larger the dose, the more psychedelic, smaller doses are more stimulating and border on hedonistic.

Repeated whiffs aka snorting lots is for sure worse for you than oral use. I have never had bruxism on 2-cb, I get it on MDMA, I too have heart concerns in my 50s. Oral 2-cb doesnt really concern me safety wise. "most painful drug to snort" yeah no.

 

[JackARoe]

Ok so I will never snort this. The bloody nose/pain thing would detract from the enjoyable parts. I mean 10 yeas ago people were saying do not snort a 2C. I will heed that warning. Plus I hate snorting things.

Gotta boof it

This is the way

This will be the first thing I do try that is beyond oral use. Oral works great for me. No nausea and quick hitting. But I do want to try my first boof with this simply because it takes less than oral for a strong effect. My only issue is worrying I do it wrong and waste it. But yeah, going to do that at some point.

 

[Skorpio]

4-Bromo-2,5-dimethoxyphenethylamine (2C-B) and structurally related phenylethylamines are potent 5-HT2A receptor antagonists in Xenopus laevis oocytes - PMC

We recently described that several 2-(2,5-dimethoxy-4-substituted phenyl)ethylamines (PEAs), including 4-I=2C-I, 4-Br=2C-B, and 4-CH3=2C-D analogs, are partial agonists at 5-HT2C receptors, and show low or even negligible intrinsic efficacy at ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There's the study in question. Maybe one of the pharmacology nerds can poke some holes in it for us

This study was from 2004, so they didn’t have the tools to dissect biased agonist. These days psychedelic studies in cells tend to use biosensors for both g-protein and beta arrestin recruitment to calculate the efficacy (and potency) at each individual signaling cascade.

This paper measured the electrophysiological response (and the blockade of serotonin’s response) of these compounds.

Now I am not super up on the literature, so I don’t know currently whether a pure g-protein vs a pure arrestin biased agonist would produce different effects with regard to the voltage at the cell membrane, but it wouldn’t be beyond the realm of possibility.

In general, when I see binding assays, I prefer to see a few well studied compounds used as a comparison, this way I can better ascertain whether the study passes the sniff test for me.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Ok so I will never snort this. The bloody nose/pain thing would detract from the enjoyable parts. I mean 10 yeas ago people were saying do not snort a 2C. I will heed that warning. Plus I hate snorting things.


This will be the first thing I do try that is beyond oral use. Oral works great for me. No nausea and quick hitting. But I do want to try my first boof with this simply because it takes less than oral for a strong effect. My only issue is worrying I do it wrong and waste it. But yeah, going to do that at some point.

i think it's such a ginormous difference that i highly recommend it

its far easier than you think


and you get those lube launchers that slip in your bunghole really nice

i'll show ya:

and iit's only gay if you do it with a buddy

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

they have pink ones too if you're into that

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

what happened to this place?


remember when it was a little more fruity around here?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

This study was from 2004, so they didn’t have the tools to dissect biased agonist. These days psychedelic studies in cells tend to use biosensors for both g-protein and beta arrestin recruitment to calculate the efficacy (and potency) at each individual signaling cascade.

This paper measured the electrophysiological response (and the blockade of serotonin’s response) of these compounds.

Now I am not super up on the literature, so I don’t know currently whether a pure g-protein vs a pure arrestin biased agonist would produce different effects with regard to the voltage at the cell membrane, but it wouldn’t be beyond the realm of possibility.

In general, when I see binding assays, I prefer to see a few well studied compounds used as a comparison, this way I can better ascertain whether the study passes the sniff test for me.

Thanks nerd!

I was wary of the date but most of this pharmacology stuff goes over my head so I'd have no way of knowing if any of the findings are still relevant.

Nerd is a term of endearment btw.

 

[Kmas]

Gotta boof it

Boofing is nice. For half the amount you get twice the trip. More psychedelic and it kicks in very quickly. Although you are taking the risk you might like it a little too much, sticking stuff up there. Find out something about yourself you didn't know. It starts with some 2c-b. Then MDMA. Then a finger, next a dildo and...

There's other stuff that works well boofed. There's certainly a rush, different then insufflating, more similar to mainlining or at least muscling. Probably safer. The health problems I mentioned has changed the blood flow dynamics between my femoral artery, organs, and legs. When I boof the blood doesn't circulate like it should and sometimes it activates nerves in my back and lower body that are quite painful. I've always had a weird circulatory system and my heart has an irregular heart beat.

I decided to stop boofing for a while. Until I get a better answer as to what's going on. I've had peritonitis and my appendix removed, the feeling is a bit like the pressure I felt when that stuff was happening. When I was younger I did my share of IV use and before I quit for good I knew it damaged to my circulatory system. I've had it checked out by docs and scanned so I know it's in good shape but still. Better safe than find out my liver got cooked somehow.

Ok so I will never snort this. The bloody nose/pain thing would detract from the enjoyable parts.

Honestly it's not bad. Never had any blood or actual damage. It's not something you'd do daily. The effects blow away any discomfort. The trick after whiffing you drip water through your nasal passage. Drip it through your nostrils and suck it up out of your throat on the other end. As soon as the water turns the powder into a paste it soothes the pain and limits any damage.

The 2cs they found were dangerous to whiff were the 2c-tx types, 2c-p, and some of the other extremely potent ones with a big body load. I'd have to look it up but I think there's one or two others that are safe insulffated, c and d. For most of them it's a bad idea. Especially if you're combining substances. Smoking and insulffating are useful routes of entry because of how quickly they react.

After eating 25 mg of 2c-b, waiting until the peak is done and things are going to be over soon, whiffing 8mg is amazing. Takes you right back up again if not even higher. It extends the peak for hours. Two or 3 more times gets the same effect but I wouldn't want to go more than that. Any gnashing of teeth means it's past it's prime, time to quit. Of course everyone's different. MDMA doesn't cause me gnashing but MDA does.

 

[JackARoe]

i'll show ya:

and iit's only gay if you do it with a buddy

Thanks man. Rectal administration is a very well established way of giving medicine and has been for years. Although I’ve never done it, 2C-B is really gonna help me.

 

[Nas47]

tried this for first last year-probably 10mg"pokemons"....in right circumstances and with good set and setting is better than mdma imo....not surprising that this was favourite phenethylamin of Shulgin

 

[Esperighanto]

Bad sign and I take it as meaning it's time to quit for a while.

I'd argue that jaw gnashing is a normal side effect of serotonin PAMs, LSD nor mescaline exhibit meaningful toxicity but both keep my jaw shivering up until the next day or two after use.

It doesn't seem to do a thing while peaking.

I've found the opposite to occur as far as this, as well as DMT cross tolerance. DPT also did not exhibit meaningful cross-tolerance. Have you reagent tested the 2C-B you're working with? And is it pressed or crystal?

2C-B has a sort of "sensitizing" effect for me and those I've given it to as far as psychedelic tolerance goes, it can take the three week tolerance of 25I-NBOMe and turn it into ~10 days if I'm bombing a shitton of 2C-B after the 25I-NBOMe. I suspect there's something neuroprotective or neuroregenerative but I'm not positive.

Never had any blood or actual damage. It's not something you'd do daily.

@Felidaez and I have both insufflated 2C-B daily for 4-8 week bouts, and it can definitely induce tissue damage if used daily, especially multiple times a day.

Smoking and insulffating are useful routes of entry because of how quickly they react.

Recently I (foolishly) vaporized some 2C-B just to see what would happen. The trip was uneventful and the taste was beyond heinous, I suspect due to the fact that you should not vaporize halogens. Besides that point though, I found the experience far more forgettable than any other RoA I've ever put 2C-B through.

 

[Pfafffed]

what happened to this place?


remember when it was a little more fruity around here?

I'm gonna have to pick up the slack.

But seriously, eating 2C-B just seems like a terrible waste to me. Rectal use has all the benefits of oral, nearly the same duration when you subtract the annoying comeup, fewer side effects, very comparable effects (maybe a little more visual,) and uses half the material. It's a no-brainer. It's just not as easy to do at a concert.

 

[Pfafffed]

I suspect there's something neuroprotective or neuroregenerative but I'm not positive.

I can't speak to this, but it's common for people to report experiencing negligible tolerance to 2C-B. I do think it's interesting that many people also find that they can mitigate or eliminate the negative after effects of MDMA by dosing 2C-B towards the end of their experience. I've never found a plausible explanation for this phenomenon.

 

[iom]

I suspect that the duration of action of a particular compound is an important factor where tolerance is concerned. So not surprisingly, short things like 2C-B and mushrooms are not associated with causing tolerance nearly as much as long things like LSD. I'm not saying duration is the only factor, but it's probably a pretty good rule of thumb that longer and/or more intense trips will cause more tolerance that also lasts longer.