Christianity working out for anyone else?

[Jnowhere]

I have everything against the Church They are playing Chinese whispers, teaching and preaching morality when they don't even understand their own psychology. I mean look at the RC Church, the sheer opulence of the Vatican itself, the prevalence of abuse within its ranks, the office of the inquisition (which still exists btw) and the Jesuits who are a military order. Do we honestly think Jesus would approve of any of that? And they have the gall to slap a cross on everything and demand that people accept the Pope as the supreme authority?

They terrorize the minds of children with the concept of sin and hell. Hey, welcome to the world, oh by the way you are fundamentally flawed and should allow us to suck the joy out of your life for the rest of your existence. Do we think Jesus would approve of that vampiric behaviour?

And not to be disagreeable, but Jesus didn't leave us words either. A parallel example is the enlightened Indian saint, Ramana Maharshi. He would give verbal answers if pressed, but he always maintained that it was his silence, his physical presence (his action) that was the highest teaching. Why? Because words can be misinterpreted. It's like describing dreaming and expecting someone who has never dreamt to be able to accurately translate those words validly. Chinese whispers.

Jesus was a template. A biological template. And people teaching how to be a biological template without actually being that template, is lies.

I have more hostility towards the rc church than you. Besides, being a fan of Martin Luther. The rc church was created by a Roman Emperor, Constantine. It is and was a combination of pagan( not a pejorative, but actual pagan beliefs, man made nonsense and off on so many aspects of true Christianity; but wrapped in some Christian beliefs( although twisted and prevented by evil men) The Vatican terrorized Europe with its false teachings; persecuting, torturing people, murdering countless people especially true Christians.

Martin Luther is kind of hero to me. He was a true rebel and fought against the lies, tyranny and oppression that the vatican, and the accompanying rc church had over Europe for countless centuries.

He was a truley a rebel and had a pair on him, that almost every tough guy wishes they had.
Besides, I am a non denominational, protestant, even if I go to a church that isn't non denominational.

Besides, one of my very late(first half of the 19th century) relatives fled Ireland; because among other thing the catholics would throw rocks at him.

Huh, well I pray that someday you will change your mind. Jesus was fully man and fully God and yes an Example. In the eyes of God The Father he was perfect and Pilate, could find no fault with him but the crowd prompted by the Pharisees, wanted him crucified( just as was planned by God the Father himself).

He(pilate) pleaded with them repeatedly and finally in a symbolic gesture washed his hands. Then The Lord Jesus Christ was flogged mercilessly and crucified as planned. He died to appease the wrath of God the Father. He died on cross for the sins of all who would believe in him. You also got to truley repent of your sins. Do Christians still sin? Of course, we are all sinners, but they have been forgivin, but we still do ask for forgiveness, but once saved always saved.

From what, the eternal wrath of ALMIGHTY GOD, more specifically the Lake of Fire, Hell. Eternal darkness, suffering day and night alone forever in torment. We are honest about our beliefs.

The rc church believes in whatever it makes up and has the gall to put the nonsense of those evil pope's and others on the same level as The True and Living God.

Besides The Apostle Peter was a teacher of the Jews. It was through, a former thug of The Pharisees that taught the gentiles( non Jews). The Apostle Paul who, a former persecutor of Christian's and a Roman citizen( rare for a Jew back then) That God brought the message to the gentiles. That the only way to heaven is faith in The Son of God, Jesus Christ( who makes up the Holy Trinity of God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

He is the way to Heaven and true repentance and faith in the birth( He was around before being born to the virgin mary, who unlike the heretics and blasphemous Vatican, wasn't a virgin sometime after the birth of Jesus. He did have half siblings, I guess you could sort of call them. Yep, Joseph( a direct descendent of King David, made love many times and henceforth not some eternal virgin like the rc church falsely claims). The life, death and resurrection of The Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of those who truley believe and have truley repented.

And once again Christians still sin but God has grace and also punishes, I know that. Catholics believe in salvation through works and faith. Which is against what the true Bible teaches. Good deeds don't get you into Heaven. It is repentance and Faith in Jesus who took the place of man( and ALMIGHTY GOD poured out his wrath onto him, and all who believe will be saved.) You have too repent also. But once saved always.

I have about as much respect for those pope's as I do, l ron hubbard. Less than none. Christ is The Rock that Christianity is based on. He is the head of The Church; not some bishop of Rome. The Apostle Peter was never a teacher of the gentiles.

They can't even get the 10 commandments right(the rc church) God particularly hates idolatry which is missing, because they divided one commandment into 2. Why, because praying to the dead, angels or anything and anyone is idolatry except to God, more specifically to Jesus Christ, the one and only mediator between man and God the Father.

Three spirit being comprise one The One and only True God. Don't ask me to explain that's why it is called faith.
The scientists try in vain to explain the Universe. They break some many ' scientific rules.

Yeah the vast limitless Universe appeared because of no one or nothing? Haha
The hubris of thinking that this endless( to them the Universe only gets bigger with more powerful telescopes.)

What is there now about 20 billion galaxies each with about a trillion stars.
Over time it will grow and in perfect balance. Also it is self replicating. Besides, you can't make something from nothing. Only answer A God and creator who has always existed and always will.
But who created him, no one. He is The Great: I AM

And Opana313 thought he could cuss me out and spew hate to shut me up, and I am on, no high horse. I really am troubled by my sins, drunkeness, fornication, many fights( physical and verbal) ect...

I ain't the nice boy next door, and I Thank ALMIGHTY GOD for sending Jesus to die on the cross. Even an agnostic/ atheist friend commented about how bad a sinner I was. I still am a sinner, so no high horse, I am disgusted by my past behavior and if not for God, I would be well who knows? No God, no laws of man would I respect other than to stay out of trouble and liquid nitrogen (figuratively speaking) would pump through my veins. If I thought I could get away with it, I would do whatever I pleased and I mean that, why not?
My true nature is changed, mostly.

 

[-=SS=-]

If one wants to be considered a Christian then one must follow Christ.

But do you want to be a Christian or, follow in the footsteps of Christ? I don't believe the two can be true simultaneously. One is a system of belief based on second-hand interpretations of the template of Jesus interwoven with politics and personal failings through history, the other is actually walking the path.

We see the exact same problem in the East, where people are more interested in being a Buddhist than following in the footsteps of Buddha. Or how Westerners go to India hoping to extract some spiritual information. It is the seeking behaviour that immediately sets up in opposition to what one has to become; the seeker has to disappear. The adherence to scripture or bodily poses is an obstacle.

Did Jesus or Buddha go to Church or what not? No. But conversely I don't believe regular people should be dissuaded from practicing a faith, as some action is better than nothing. If you throw enough mud at the wall, sometimes it will stick.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Did Jesus or Buddha go to Church or what not? No.

Actually, Jesus did follow the Mosiac Law according to the Bible. All the way to his death, too; the last supper was Passover supper celebrated by Jesus and the 12 Apostles.

To follow Christ is the best we can do since we cannot become Christ. We can only follow Him.

That's assuming one wants to be Christian.

 

[-=SS=-]

To follow Christ is the best we can do since we cannot become Christ. We can only follow Him.

Can't we? Who said we couldn't, Jesus or the Church?

If we couldn't surely Jesus would have just retreated to the forest and not bothered with the futility of trying to help the helpless, if there was no hope for others to become.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Can't we? Who said we couldn't, Jesus or the Church?

If we couldn't surely Jesus would have just retreated to the forest and not bothered with the futility of trying to help the helpless, if there was no hope for others to become.

All Christian sects agree on that one principle.
If you don't agree, then you can be anything else you wish to be and believe whatever you want. It's a definition thing, not a judgement.

 

[-=SS=-]

All Christian sects agree on that one principle.
If you don't agree, then you can be anything else you wish to be and believe whatever you want. It's a definition thing, not a judgement.

Sure, but the question remains.. is this because Jesus himself specifically said it was not a possibility, or is it dogma of the Church itself? It's an important question, and why I believe you can either follow the Christian faith or follow Jesus but not both simultaneously - as far as I'm aware Jesus never stated it himself, of course it would be impossible to prove either way really.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Sure, but the question remains.. is this because Jesus himself specifically said it was not a possibility, or is it dogma of the Church itself? It's an important question, and why I believe you can either follow the Christian faith or follow Jesus but not both simultaneously - as far as I'm aware Jesus never stated it himself, of course it would be impossible to prove either way really.

Perhaps this is why it's called faith. We will never know for sure in this life.

 

[-=SS=-]

But what's more important to place your faith in. Jesus, or the Church? I mean this is the one time where the chicken and egg riddle actually has an answer; Jesus came first. And surely one would want to make their faith dedicated and singular in its objective, therefore you'd place Jesus first, no?

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

But what's more important to place your faith in. Jesus, or the Church? I mean this is the one time where the chicken and egg riddle actually has an answer; Jesus came first. And surely one would want to make their faith dedicated and singular in its objective, therefore you'd place Jesus first, no?

Of course.
But that's just me. That's a very personal decision, and we all have free will.

 

[Dreamflyer]

I've been a Christian since 1986, and it's helped me become a better person. I'm not radical about it though. I don't claim to have all the answers, and I definitely don't try to force my beliefs on others.

I actually haven't been to church in many years, because I've always found it to be full of judgemental hypocrites. I feel more comfortable worshipping God in private.

 

[kris66]

I've been a Christian since 1986, and it's helped me become a better person. I'm not radical about it though. I don't claim to have all the answers, and I definitely don't try to force my beliefs on others.

I actually haven't been to church in many years, because I've always found it to be full of judgemental hypocrites. I feel more comfortable worshipping God in private.

I understand what you are saying. I'm not currently attending a church right now either but there are things I do miss about it. The churches I've attended did get involved in the community with the homeless shelters and food banks. And we did become involved helping several anonymous families in our community who were in need. There are plenty of things I disagreed with though.

Can't we? Who said we couldn't, Jesus or the Church?

If we couldn't surely Jesus would have just retreated to the forest and not bothered with the futility of trying to help the helpless, if there was no hope for others to become.

I guess I'm a little confused here. Are you saying we should actually become Jesus himself? Although Jesus does speak about us being spiritually together in John, I do not interpret this as our old selves no longer existing. We are all unique individuals with diverse personalities and strengths. Jesus states he loves us. Why would he wish to destroy our individual selves and turn us into clones of himself? I have never heard this argument made before.

 

[-=SS=-]

I guess I'm a little confused here. Are you saying we should actually become Jesus himself? Although Jesus does speak about us being spiritually together in John, I do not interpret this as our old selves no longer existing. We are all unique individuals with diverse personalities and strengths. Jesus states he loves us. Why would he wish to destroy our individual selves and turn us into clones of himself? I have never heard this argument made before.

Preface; I'm speaking from my own beliefs here.

I believe Jesus represents the culmination of the human spirit in the flesh and that he was (possibly) the first human to reach that state, the first flower to bloom, and that we are all destined to reach that state in the end. That is, it is evolutionary, not some individual hero type storyline where a single individual is chosen by God for all time. Becoming Jesus is akin to what happens with the samadhi states where the individual realizes his essence, the drop of water enters the ocean and the ignorant belief of its own individuality is lost - this doesn't mean individuality is totally lost, only the false concept of it.

It's not about literally becoming the body-mind of Jesus, that is an impossibility as is becoming the body-mind of anyone else. Like rays from the Sun, they are all unique but at the same time if you trace the ray backwards they all have the same source. When you become you are aware of that source, and it is the same source for everybody. The heart of my heart is the same as yours, Jesus, and anybody else.

Becoming, like Jesus, means you are there in that space too. And there is room for everybody. That is my conception of it all.

This is why I draw the distinction between Jesus and the Church, because the Church is not interested in this concept.. because if everybody realized what I've just said as true then there would be no need for the Church to exist at all. It can only continue to exist while it propagates the idea that Jesus was a singular individual and that there is no possibility for everybody to reach the same condition. It is a system built on scarcity and the fear this engenders. We can see the continuation of this ethos in 'science', which embodies the same nihilistic, uncaring, scarcity based philosophy (big bang theory, linear time, survival of the fittest, etc) that seeks to keep people locked into a limited worldview that demands submission to the political systems it in turn generates to sustain itself.

 

[kris66]

Preface; I'm speaking from my own beliefs here.

I believe Jesus represents the culmination of the human spirit in the flesh and that he was (possibly) the first human to reach that state, the first flower to bloom, and that we are all destined to reach that state in the end. That is, it is evolutionary, not some individual hero type storyline where a single individual is chosen by God for all time. Becoming Jesus is akin to what happens with the samadhi states where the individual realizes his essence, the drop of water enters the ocean and the ignorant belief of its own individuality is lost - this doesn't mean individuality is totally lost, only the false concept of it.

It's not about literally becoming the body-mind of Jesus, that is an impossibility as is becoming the body-mind of anyone else. Like rays from the Sun, they are all unique but at the same time if you trace the ray backwards they all have the same source. When you become you are aware of that source, and it is the same source for everybody. The heart of my heart is the same as yours, Jesus, and anybody else.

Becoming, like Jesus, means you are there in that space too. And there is room for everybody. That is my conception of it all.

This is why I draw the distinction between Jesus and the Church, because the Church is not interested in this concept.. because if everybody realized what I've just said as true then there would be no need for the Church to exist at all. It can only continue to exist while it propagates the idea that Jesus was a singular individual and that there is no possibility for everybody to reach the same condition. It is a system built on scarcity and the fear this engenders. We can see the continuation of this ethos in 'science', which embodies the same nihilistic, uncaring, scarcity based philosophy (big bang theory, linear time, survival of the fittest, etc) that seeks to keep people locked into a limited worldview that demands submission to the political systems it in turn generates to sustain itself.

You have a unique view point. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[skipjames]

Bible we use is an accurate translation, we have the 10 commandments( the Catholics have 9, they split one of them into 2 because they leave out the idolatry one, because they pray, to idols, dead people, angels ect. Christians don't do that and will get you a ticket to hell, (unless you repent) read the real Bibl

1Who gave u guys the Bible? Who decided which books were inspired and which one were not? The Church ( undivided before the Great Schism) the Canon was established on the
..5th century. So you are welcome 2) ah, the good old idolatry charge...we venerate Our Lady, the Saints etc, we don t adore them . I can ask you to pray for me , why can T I ask to the Mother of God to pray for me ? You should really learn more about the Catholic Church

 

[Nas47]

But what's more important to place your faith in. Jesus, or the Church? I mean this is the one time where the chicken and egg riddle actually has an answer; Jesus came first. And surely one would want to make their faith dedicated and singular in its objective, therefore you'd place Jesus first, no?

as to orthodoxy-Christ is the head and creator of the church...so it must be one...another question what is now church and what was millenials ago....cause church is a lot of men-all with their weakness....jst like anybody else..Christ send to us sacramentals-holy gifts-his flesh and blood-bread and wine sacralized with special prayers in the altar during the mess(in Orthodoxy)...so as to me Christ is the Church....."when more than one of u is praying for me u know that I will be there"....i mean the group prayer probably is most powerful than those made by sole person....such prayer more easily suposed to travel faster....or some sort.....and so this groups praying....like any religion....gathering of the people to adore and pray-that lay foundation of the church.....and if the Church like institution now is in not good position(scandals,coruption,abuse,drunkness...and so on)-all this is normal too....that's the way it is...that's way we have the Judgement Day,Ressurection of the dead and the coming of kingdome of God.....i guess man....only guess....nothing sure here

 

[Jnowhere]

1Who gave u guys the Bible? Who decided which books were inspired and which one were not? The Church ( undivided before the Great Schism) the Canon was established on the
..5th century. So you are welcome 2) ah, the good old idolatry charge...we venerate Our Lady, the Saints etc, we don t adore them . I can ask you to pray for me , why can T I ask to the Mother of God to pray for me ? You should really learn more about the Catholic Church

You, know little too nothing about this, and about the Bible and history. Don't even think you can challenge me on this, I am a real Christian and I have studied the Bible and history of the catholic 'church' and all their herisies and blasphemous, unbiblical teachings.

Your, 'church' which you probably never go to, like most catholics, is a horrible blend, of pagan beliefs, man made nonsense and wrapped up in a Christian veneer.

Our Lady nonsense and all this unholy, nonsense, the catholic church was like the mafia for centuries and now it stands for nothing but whatever the boy lover pope ( he wore a rainbow t-shirt with boy lover on it, he knew what it meant).

Funny, that the mafia and Catholicism are from Italy and just like them, they lied, cheated, stole, terrorized, extorted and murdered so many who dared oppose them. Now, the Vatican, with for the first time a, jesuit, which makes it even worse. Is pushing for some Global Religion to gain power and influence. This current pope is not only, not a Christian, he is not even a catholic.

Also, that cross with Jesus still on it, is a pagan symbol to mock Jesus. Real Christians who are mature in their faith usually know this.

Our lady this or that. She was a human, nothing more but a virtuous Jewish girl or woman( not sure of her age, but they married young during this time period).

They compromised, and also it was in part, a creation of a Roman Emperor, Constantine, in 313 AD, aka the fouth century.

Example of falsehood, Peter wasn't the 'Rock' The Lord Jesus Christ is and The Apostle Peter was a teacher of the Jews. The Apostle Paul, a Roman Jew who was a Roman citizen, who through The Holy Spirit, brought Christianity to Rome, and too the gentiles.

He was previously either a Pharisee or one their thugs who zealously persecuted, tortured and helped stone a Christian named Stephen to death.

Jesus spoke to him on the road to Damascus and he converted very quickly. He also through The Holy Spirit, spread Christianity to Rome and the gentiles( everyone who is not born ethnically a Jew) and wrote ,through The Holy Spirit, many books of The New Testament.

Read The New Testament, from a real Bible, also putting the words of the bishop of Rome on the same level as The written and eternal words of ALMIGHTY GOD, and also their un Biblical teachings and traditions is Blasphemy.

Also praying to Mary,( or anyone other than Jesus Christ to God The Father?) angels, dead people and inanimate objects is Idolitary. That's why they divided one commandment into two.
They leave out the one about no idolatry, because that is a key part of that religion.

I have faith and beliefs; you have a religion that is a compromised system, of man made edicts and words, paganism, and wrapped in a Christian veneer. A theological cult.

No pope in the Bible, priests( who conducted the sacrifices, were abolished by God himself) The beginning of The Church age( Jesus Christ is the head of The Church, which is comprised of true belivers not an evil, greedy, corrupt beauicracy).

Besides, look at all the evil that the popes did( terrorized Europe for so many centuries and there was once 3 who thought they held that absolutely unBiblical position and none at one point.

No purgatory. Also confession of sins is through Jesus Christ to God the Father; not to some man in a box, Mary was just a good and righteous woman, who had the great Honor and Priviledge of giving birth to The only true Son of ALMIGHTY GOD. Who was around forever before being born and was Fully God and man,( Father, Son and Holy spirit comprise one God, don't ask me to explain, that is why it is called Faith).

Also after JESUS was born, Joseph( The one who was a blood descendant of King David and later made love to Mary; after all she did have children after JESUS was born. I guess you could kinda say had half brothers and sisters. Although JESUS existed before creation.

She, is not some eternal virgin, Joseph made sure of that, aka he did what any normal married couple does, made love, or had sex. Henceforth, Jesus's half 'siblings'

Salvation is through repentance of one sins and a saving Knowledge and faith of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ made and his resurrection 3 days later.

Look at the other two men also being crucified, they mocked him until one believed, and said we( him and the other thief and probably worse based on Knowledge that Roman's only crucified the worst offenders) a murderer who also caused insurrection, Barabbas was freed and as God the Father planned and Jesus took his place). He said we are getting what we deserve, he( Jesus Christ) is an innocent man. Then asked JESUS "Will you remember me when you come into your kingdom?" Jesus said, ( I am paraphrasing a little but not making stuff up, like the vatican) truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.

The thief and probably worse, Repented and Believed in Jesus Christ and was saved. Some day I will meet him, in Paradise aka Heaven.
Also, what did he do to 'earn' a place in Heaven? Nothing, but true repentance and belief.

Salvation is through repentance of one's sins and faith alone; not through works or good deeds. That man on the cross who was repentant and believed had done nothing to 'earn' a place in heaven but repent and believed in Jesus Christ.( once saved always saved. He was a particular vile man to be crucified.

Yes Christian's still sin, and we believe in asking for forgiveness through the one and only mediator between man and ALMIGHTY GOD; The Son, Jesus Christ. True salvation is a gift that can't be lost.
Grace, but it is not a license to do whatever you want, trust me I know God punishes but true salvation is never lost or earned by doing good deeds. Read the new testament.

Look at pope Francis, that is no man of GOD, quite the opposite. The vatican is comprised of evil men and women and has no place in the Bible or Christianity.

Keep praying to mary, idolatry is a guaranteed one way eternal ticket to the Lake of Fire. Unless you truly repent and believe. Read the New Testament and then the old.

Look at what this 'church' really is, basically an 'apostasy'. A compromise of Christianity, pagan beliefs and made up nonsense. No, I will not eat fish on Fridays or any other day.

THIS IS A DEBATE OR ARGUMENT BETWEEN a catholic and a Protestant.

I could go on and on, but I am tired of this argument.

I could go on for days and never shut up, about this, I take my beliefs seriously, now. Yes like everyone I sin, and grieve over the countless ones I had and still do commit, but that is what Grace is about, but not a license too sin.

However, true Christian's ask for forgiveness for their transgressions.
True salvation can't be lost.

SOLA SCRIPTURA: Latin for scripture alone, The eternal words of ALMIGHTY GOD. THE BIBLE, not the made-up doctrines or words of man or their ridiculous, heretical and blasphemous beliefs and 'traditions'.

ONCE AGAIN THIS IS A DEBATE OR A MAJOR DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN: a catholic and a CHRISTIAN. I am not here to argue with others, just: skipjames.

SOLA SCRIPTURA.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

SOLA SCRIPTURA.

But very interesting insight read for a 'Atheistic' brought up man.

Spirtual, but when a relative, Baptist, said so sad you go to hell.
And i to heaven, the dooming pic of child indoctrination with religion.
She switched btw, her parents or husband were not Baptist s.

God is in every man. Yod Hey Vav Hey - I Am Who Am.
Heaven could be on Earth, Hell to.
The bibles reference seems like scare mongering.
Good too the left, bad too the right
As when i look around we are more then capable,
of creating hell by ourselves. Heaven we have troubles with, obvious.

Though unspoiled parts on earth still are said to feel like it.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

But what's more important to place your faith in. Jesus, or the Church? I mean this is the one time where the chicken and egg riddle actually has an answer; Jesus came first. And surely one would want to make their faith dedicated and singular in its objective, therefore you'd place Jesus first, no?

Before Jezus there was the institution called Church.
Melchizedek the first born natural mystic, like Jezus later.
Just talked to people willing to listen.

So born with divine insight, not by the institutions teaching.

As God is in every man, and Church is getting together and share belief.
Not per see a building, though a roof during rain or wall when windy.
Were probably used, houses, barns maybe caves.

And without knowing of God, Christ or bible.
Can someone pure good be a access denied, at heavens gate
for that supposedly afterlife/ reincarnation/ ...

No

 

[Jnowhere]

It was a class assignment to read his stuff: Romeo and Juliet, Midsummer night's, Hamlet, Macbeth (my personal favorite), King Lear, Othello, The Tempest... We read some of his sonnets as well such as the one where he writes a lovely poem about a homely woman. I've heard that there's some speculation that there are others who have written under the same name. A mystery for the ages, sort of like Omar Khayyam.

I find many things strange. Sometimes I wonder if the past is a collective unconscious that was constructed to create a backdrop for 'the present'. I've wondered if conscious beings ever really existed during the middle ages, or in ancient times. I wouldn't be shocked if that were true, and I also don't buy into it as gospel. Just a fun little thing to think about.


Aye - I've heard this theory before.

I appreciate your musings!

You don't believe that people existed 100's or thousands of years ago, are you a Flat Earther as well? As far as the gospel goes I didn't even mention religion; however now that you inadvertently brought it up by mentioning not believing history as gospel. The Bible is true and historically accurate and so are the things in it that are going to happen in the future.

After That Great and Terrible of Judgement. You reject Christ than he will reject you. But you'll have all eternity alone in the fiery but pitch black; alone except for the worms that never die and the fire that will never be
quenched.

Someday you will learn the error of your beliefs. Because if you can't believe in history and people living thousand of year ago: I better not mess with psychedelics they tend to melt people brains and open them up to utter nonsense. Collective conscious; ah no, people have been here a long time and history is real. So is the Messiah Jesus Christ, he saves; but also will judge where you go and their is only two places. Yes I know you were stating not believing in history as gospel, but I like to take things in different directions sometimes, and I take it, you don't believe in the gospel in terms of the Bible either. Then currently you're on the Highway To Hell. Not little and not fun.

 

[tryptakid]

You don't believe that people existed 100's or thousands of years ago, are you a Flat Earther as well? As far as the gospel goes I didn't even mention religion; however now that you inadvertently brought it up by mentioning not believing history as gospel. The Bible is true and historically accurate and so are the things in it that are going to happen in the future.

After That Great and Terrible of Judgement. You reject Christ than he will reject you. But you'll have all eternity alone in the fiery but pitch black; alone except for the worms that never die and the fire that will never be
quenched.

Someday you will learn the error of your beliefs. Because if you can't believe in history and people living thousand of year ago: I better not mess with psychedelics they tend to melt people brains and open them up to utter nonsense. Collective conscious; ah no, people have been here a long time and history is real. So is the Messiah Jesus Christ, he saves; but also will judge where you go and their is only two places. Yes I know you were stating not believing in history as gospel, but I like to take things in different directions sometimes, and I take it, you don't believe in the gospel in terms of the Bible either. Then currently you're on the Highway To Hell. Not little and not fun.

As I mentioned - I don't *believe* this, simply something I've mused about over the years. I'm not prone to holding firm to any one 'truth' - I believe that most things are subjective and relative. Was just sharing a funny aside when you brought up shakespeare being someone who may or may not have existed.

As for the bible - to me these are allegorical stories that are metaphors for deeper wisdom and a means to pass that wisdom through an oral tradition, and later chronicled through writing. For instance - Homer is speculated as having been a pen name taken on to represent a tradition of storytellers rather than one specific individual. The Iliad and The Odyssey are likely to be an attempt to record epic poems that were traditionally retold in an oral format. What we may read today as these works was not necessarily how someone in Ancient greece may have heard these stories. I see the bible much int he same way - perhaps inspired by the divine, or perhaps inspired by the concept of divinity. I don't tend to believe that an ultimate truth on these matters is knowable. I respect that you believe these things as true and don't see that as wrong, I'm just not someone who sees things in the same way. I am just as inspired by the cosmology of the Maya and plant wisdom of the Olmecs as I am by the Judeo Christian Islamic understanding of the divine. They're all just ways that different groups have understood the soul, wisdom, and that which is unknowable.