Meth ⫸Methamphetamine Megathread⫷

[Methamphetanonymous]

I might make another thread to separate this but:

Can we take advantage of any differences in solubility of L isomer and D in various solvents or water? People sometimes like to use water bongs to smoke meth - even though meth is soluble in water. So obviously some is lost but… maybe MORE of the impurities get absorbed by the water faster than meth absorbs? Is there any difference between D and L isomer?

There's barely any Levomethamphetamine present on the streets worldwide. Criminal groups already perform a purification step which is essentially what you describe. Look up optical resolution: meth and perhaps steer towards Erowid who has written on this topic before. Even on Google, you'll find at least one chiral solvent that targets only the L-isomer which a consumer wouldn't have an issue acquiring small scale.

What about making a bong not using water but have it bubble through PG or VG (like what e cigs use)? Or something else relatively safe for human consumption but that MIGHT absorb Levomethamphetamine faster than Dextromethamphetamine.

Look up optical resolution of methamphetamine.

We can’t let the cartel impurities ruin meth there must be a way via much experimentation. Meth is cheap enough where I bet if people just think outside the box we can figure out how to take out more of the junk and leave more pure Dextro.

Unfortunately, whatever impurities you refer to being unique to the "Cartel" are reaction byproducts that would have such similar characteristics to meth that the usual extraction, washes and recrystalization wouldn't be able to separate. Gas spectrometry analysis of meth samples shows that these chemicals are present in very trace amounts. There's debate that some of these are route specific to manufacture methods used by CERTAIN Narcos groups and MAY alter the expected high of meth, but in my opinion any differences in perceived effect are in the eye of the beholder to to speak; tolerance, greater potency, and cheaper product per gram have made smoking bowls upon bowls of meth normalized in a way it would not have been at $100 a gram in the latest 90s early 2000s. It's just how people use meth, not the meth they are using imo.

——-
I noticed when I consume meth orally, it feels closer to pure dextro IF the dose is kept low. I think some of the extra psychoactive junk maybe gets filtered out (but not totally, just enough to notice it being cleaner) more when eaten.

What psychoactive junk? Dextromethamphetamine is a potent CNS and PNS stimulant. In the only study done on human subjects D-meth showed notably higher strain on cardiovascular activity by way of blood pressure and heart rate than L-meth.

Perhaps a lower dose is the answer to your problem? You likely are overdoing high potency meth, and are disappointed that it is high potency. A lower dose saves you money and keeps the amount of illicit substance in your possession lower.

I was thinking about GC/MS machines - I actually don’t know how they work other than a tiny bit I read about different compounds having different weights and it got me thinking about how every compound has different freezing and boiling points…. What about making a device with an Arduino and super accurate thermostats and some kind of tube where there is a gradient of a temperature difference along the tube. Have the arduino control a hot plate that slowly raises the temp, the different compounds including d and l meth will evaporate and then condense inside this tube but I’m thinking they will separate along the tube depending on compound. Anyone understand what I’m trying to think?

This sort of thing likely does exist. Dies it sound worth the expense and time? Are you clocking in for a shift before you take these excessive steps to purify a drug that is itself quite toxic to the human body and brain at 100% purity?

Then in theory you could figure out how where along the tube the d-amphetamine is condensed and scrape it off. Possible?

Maybe. But it's not worth the bother, there's hardly any L-meth coming over the boarder as optical resolution and purification methods are well known and quite literally an assembly line task for these well funded and well connected global criminal organizations. Meth synthesized from a starting material that isn't chiral gets purified into essentially the same product as meth synthesized from an enantiomically pure starting material. You just have more available to consume, and you're consuming too much

Don't fight your tolerance, keep it low

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

Dealing with doctors is SUCH a pain these days, so much time gets wasted, pharmacy issues, some doctors you will be with for 8 months and still they think 50mg Vyvanse should be enough or 20mg adderall or whatever.

I mean on a clean tolerance 50mg of Vyvanse or 20mg of Adderall can be quite potent.

There are some that do give people 90-120mg adderall.. this is the type I want to find - not to actually use that much (it really is hard on the body above 60) but to be able to stock up for all those times when mishaps happen (doctor on vacation, nationwide shortage, etc)

Do you feel you'd take 60mg or less? Do you take like 40mg of meth orally each morning with no redosing?

I actually think I usually prefer pure dexamphetamine to meth, sometimes, but really both are better for different things. I feel I should have the choice to have both and more than enough supply and not be talked to and treated like a criminal or always being suspected etc.

I agree, I also enjoy dextroamphetamine more than dextromethamphetamine it seems easier on the body. I've heard others say the opposite so I suppose it's just subjective. Really they're nearly identical in action once in the brain... neurologists and pharmacologists simply will refer to both as amphetamine and not bother differentiating between the two chemicals unless there's a specific need for contrasting. Tbh 20mg of meth and 20mg of Adderall feel identical to me taken orally

These “professionals” that go to school for so long should be way better than they are. Maybe psychiatrists should be required to take one dose of a few different meds so they have a clue what it’s like - they have zero experience (usually) and read outdated ancient information.

I don't know, I don't mean to sound like a dick or be rude but you don't seem to have done a lot of professional research on these drugs. I'd be inclined to trust the professional in this circumstance by merit of their academic background alone unless the specific Doctor is provably incompetent. Yes some do exist that are not particularly open minded or academically curious post med school. But many do it because it's their life interest.

Anyways, orally meth works great a lot of the time but sometimes even the stuff that “feels clean” has made my blood pressure go WAY up. Even low dosages. Something ain’t right. Different batches do different things. I try to find the “least shitty batch” on the dark web. Also sometimes vendors will send one gram of excellent clean stuff but if you buy a bigger qty like 7g they send crap.

Oral methamphetamine will always feel superior theraputically than other ROAs which are designed to be recreational. Taking a 30mg oral dose allows it to slowly pass through the stomach lining and reach a gradual peak plasma concentration, whereas other ROAs are
virtually instantaneous and subjective effects tend to dissipate as quickly as they come on. This is desirable for the rush or norepinephrine which is processed into adrenaline, but isn't particularly optimized for benefiting the management of a user's ADHD symptoms and behaviors.

I got just one g of some recently and am taking it orally and the doses seem legit like desoxyn (but have never gotten ahold of that to try).

That's because Desoxyn is designed to be consumed orally, which supports my point above. You're simply observing what many users have discovered quickly or over some time; amphetamines are best wielded as a 'tool' when taken orally.

No wonder you feel symptoms of overdose nearing even fatigue; you're overdosing

Blood pressure measuring devices sometimes aren’t accurate- so I should try to find a medical-level properly calibrated one to buy.. I mean pharma Dexedrine doesn’t seem to mess with BP much and some studies show d-meth should be even less of a BP change.

Dextromethamphetamine will significantly raise your blood pressure especially if you're already predisposed to high blood pressure by age genetics or lifestyle. You will find that this will always be the case, and you may look into medications or habits that lower blood pressure.

It’s weird - I also would get these batches that WAY messed up my stomach even at just adhd oral doses. Like it would blow up like a balloon even get painful. Haven’t had that happen ever with Dexedrine.

This can happen depending on your stomach contents (eating before dosing), stress, and hydration as constipation from meth abuse dehydration is insanely commen and causes bloating and cramps

So I really would love to find a way to be able to get some dirty but still meth and clean it to REALLY clean, like 99%+ dextro methamphetamine.

You can dig into all sorts of chemical solutions for a variety of potential byproducts or suspected cutting agents but the most commonly used ones that show up in street samples will be cleansed with a proper anhydrous acetone wash. Unless you have reason to suspect an unusual and identifiable cutting agent, you're really taking shots blindfolded. Many drugs benign and harmful are in the form of acid salt crystals which have similar physical properties to meth; for example fentanyl citrate won't come out with acetone, and won't recrystalize separately in water. If you knew it was present you could run a distillation; but its rarely present and wouldn't be possible visually to determine so you are more likely running time consuming tedious purification methods for no gain.

Most meth in the USA is above 70% dextro purity at the bare minimum as this is required for lattices to bond over the lengths needed to form crystals.

Or.. try to get a desoxyn script. Docs that allow that seem more liberal with the daily dosages - I’ve heard of people getting 100mg a day, 120mg (narcolepsy guy who is like 80 years old, he says it’s working as good as the first day after like 30 years and he seems fine). Maybe even TINY amounts of levomethamphetamine really is the danger.. and maybe 1mg makes your BP jump up 30 points. Or maybe it’s some strange active synth byproducts.

You could try, and I admit subjectively it appears to me that Desoxyn prescriptions have been handed out more freely with the shortage on traditional amphetamine stimulants... but you risk drawing suspicion and distrust for a drug that really isn't likely to be more effective therapeutically than Dexedrine or Vyvanse.

Levomethamphetamine is a weaker central nervous system stimulant and weaker peripheral stimulant in human studies, it's presence likely isn't a danger at all compared to its right handed stereoisomer which packs a significantly more potent punch onto dopamine receptor and transporter systems, is significantly more neurotoxic, and a bit more cardiotoxic.

Racemic meth has shown at least twice in human studies to have no discernable subjective difference in effect to dextrometh proper. Even it's effect on heart rate and blood pressure was nearly identical to dextrometh. Levo meth in any amount isn't the culprit of any danger... maybe of having a shorter less driven and motivated rush if you were to take it alone... but nobody does that


I highly recommend you remain on oral doses, and go lower if you're having uncomfortable effects. Why not take less, feel happier, and have more tomorrow? If your BP reaction continues you worry you and you're unable to change your lifestyle or find a BP control med that works with your drug use; it's probably time to look into solutions less potent than amphetamines

 

[Cult315]

Any tips for smoking in hotel rooms? I used to do it a lot but nowadays I’m paranoid. For example, I’m in a non smoking hotel that’s also kinda moldy and the people below me are smoking…I literally feel the warmth and humidity rising from my floor and it makes my room extremely uncomfortable. How do I prevent the same thing from occurring if I smoke my meth?

Unless you’re standing directly under a smoke detector and are damn near tall enough to reach it I doubt anybody will ever know the difference. I stay in hotels fairly often, expensive ones(I’m a cheap, broke fuck I don’t pay for them) where the rooms actually cleaned and the smoke detectors work and there’s signs everywhere saying no smoking of any kind or you get charged out the ass. I always start off cautious huddled over and blowing the vapor into the toilet, and typically within minutes my girl wants to fuck so we’re smoking on the bed under the detector. Never once has one gone off and not once has anybody ever even hinted that they knew we were doing anything we shouldn’t be. But we’re also good looking people, usually dressed well in a fancy hotel. When people see us acting zoomy they probably assume coke, not meth.

Meth doesn’t really leave any lingering or noticeable odor unless you’re in pretty much arms reach away from whoever is smoking it, and it doesn’t leave any (visible) residue behind, unless you’re smoking copious amounts and blowing it at the same spot on a glass surface or something.

I think the only thing people are going to notice is you being massively paranoid lol. Not trying to be a dick, but saying you can feel the temperature rise from people below you smoking is pretty bizarre and definitely sounds a tad bit psychosis-y.

 

[yaesutom]

I found the solution to blood pressure going way up: Lisinopril 10mg once a day! Amazing.

 

[P2PmostDsorryRnB]

So I see some outdated or possibly inaccurate information throughout everything I share is from experience research and knowledge. Going to share some facts about the substance and IV for new individuals. Fact 90% of the meth in the U.S. is from Mexico and highly pure P2P meth. This synthesis yields the most D that's what gets you high the cartels and main distributions don't cut it Fact! They don't have the regulations and security the US has to obtain the precursors in fact ephedrine isn't even used it's phenyl 2 propanone it yields the most D isomer fact. Ephedrine 2nd. The worst and most dirty meth is made in the US made with pseudoephedrine which yields the lowest D isomer and has to be stripped out using the most volatile chemicals and nasty process for a sub par impure product Fact. Pretty much shake and bake and one pot methods all that really is local to the US anymore due to the fact you can't get the precursors. So all those old stories that meth used to be way better when jack down the street made it is a wise tale and simply BS it was made with pseudoephedrine which makes the worst dope lowest D isomer and very impure you start with a impure main ingredient you get a impure product fact 55 60% if they know what they doing compared to 90% coming out of Mexico it's low level street guys cutting it if it's cut. So when you get the shitty dope that kinda just makes you jittery and upset stomach that's US pseudo meth you can taste the damn cold meds in it. When you get the real good stuff that's pretty abundant at least where I'm at and it makes you real euphoric and horny you can bet the farm it came from Mexico. When you get the trash dirty stuff that's your local home made cold med experiment from America. We may have better a lot of things but not dope I will not entertain arguments of objective truth these are facts look it up

Ok so you want to start IV meth pros cons
First of I don't recommend it your tolerance will go up and there is more risk involved with that said people going to what they wanna do so let's get some correct information out. First off Why is meth bad to shoot well it's acidic and harsh so not very good for your veins it dehydrates you causing your veins to constrict shrink and roll around and thats not ideal so stay hydrated. With all that it makes you kinda shake mixed with smaller constricted veins leads to a miss. What's a miss that's when you either go through or don't make it in the vein and hurts like hell and swells up everyone misses some more than others. When you miss with meth you usually stop instantly it burns but not always be careful. Some stupid stuff I hear it's better to use hardly any water untrue the more diluted your shot the better your veins will be water is less harmful fact don't fill the dang thing up all they way 35 to 45cc is probably about what you want. People say meth is the worst to shoot compared to other substances well not really if you miss you probably going to know pretty quick so you avoid a complete missed shot. If you miss can you get a abscess yes but highly highly unlikely if you have sterile needle and clean skin meth is very caustic and harsh so bacteria and germs don't tend to want anything to do with it meth will eat the stain off a table micro organisms won't survive long in contact with it. So if you miss do you need panic and go to emergency room possibly but if you use clean tools probably not use a warm towel then a lil ice it should start to get better in a day or two if it doesn't then go. I have personally never seen someone have to go because of a abscess but that doesn't mean it can't happen it will leave a hard spot and be tender for quite some time from tissue damage in the area be prepared it's going to happen eventually even with a pro. I have seen some abscess from heroin and cocaine bacteria can grow in it much easier I have never shot either so can't get into much detail. How much should you do ? Well I'm not a doctor or your body I can give you a generic idea. If you have never done meth before your dose should be 0 snort some see how that works out. if you are not a frequent user .1 should rock you maybe do a lil less. If your tolerance is high but you never iv before .2 is going to rock you maybe do a lil less that's what I take at most .3 that's big and quite scary rush for me don't do it often. If your taking a bigger dose than that your asking for a unpleasant experience. Can u fatally acute OD from meth like heroin/opiates I don't know or heard of anyone that has from a single dose that wasn't absurdly large. I think it's something like 2 or more grams at once for it to be fatally toxic to a healthy human that's a lot and know way you could do that in short period without eating it on purpose or something like that. Where to start? Well don't start. With that said hold your arms straight out with you palms up look in the bend of your arm that big vein in the bend close to the surface learn there least risky place kinda of a hollow pit so when you miss and you will lots of space and room for swelling. Carefully insert the rig in pointing up your arm at yourself slowly pull back the plunger if you get a good flow of blood in the needle not a faint trickle very steady and slowly inject if it hurts immediately stop you messed up. Are those the best veins? Not in my opinion but start there. Next hold you arms out with palms down look at the bend on the top part if your arm on the inside above your elbow maybe you can see em if not you can feel em those are the least painful and less likely to move they go all the way to your arm those are the best for a lot of people once you know what your doing. DO NOT try your hands your legs your wrist they are super hard to get will probably blow out and if you miss going to very bad lots of pain lots of very bad stuff could happen nerves artery's definitely going to have to go the emergency room! I should not have to say don't hit your neck or face if you fuck up probably could die if your in the neck it's time to get help imo. The veins on the bottom of your forearm I also would not recommend they are smaller deeper and just not a good idea they hurt badly could be arterial blood vessels so pushing the substance into your hand not your body also not good. Go onto you tube or something to watch the basics of iv safety and sterilization and a vein chart. How many times can you use I needle? Ok this is also important ideally one time throw it out they get dull and you will miss and have leaks and more damage to your veins if you keep the same one. Does it suck to go in and buy new ones yes but worth it! This always isn't possible so for me I'm not you the needle is still sharp after one go I save it wash it put up for emergency move to a next one if I have to use it again it usually is fine then I throw it out immediately because 3 and 4 uses that point is dull and rolling and tearing your comfortable access spots you don't have many. I messed up one of my crooks when I was a novice it disappeared never came back don't know where it went. The right one I thought the same it got hard and small and was going away I got very depressed took a break and luckily after about a week I noticed it was back at the surface and big and soft again I will never use it again it was a miracle. My left top forearm that's my trusty spot been through hell when it stops registering one time I take a break and let it heal it up do not keep poking and poking at it be patient it will heal if you let it. If I mess it up funs over I will not hit legs hands go digging around for a new one I've tried before never any luck it will be time for a new adventure. Some ending notes after you have taken 2 or three shots your vines get rubbery and become impossible to hit that's your body telling you break time mofo if you obsess over that shot and poke over and over you won't have any luck and will be waiting longer because your not letting it heal. Iv does not give you the same high as smoking and snorting it's very very different much more intense at first then a very long lasting mellow energetic feeling so easy for me to be un noticed and normal if you wanna be tweaked the hell out twack star status all day it ain't for you. The rush is addictive and if you think you can just go all Willy nilly and just pop away as much as your little heart desires your mistaken. If you have small or deep hard to find veins this isn't a option for your standard ROA don't try it won't work you will have a horrible time waste all your gear and be in lots of pain and miss all the time and partially miss every time and usually are one and done. Most girls also have a really hard time they have smaller veins thinner walls and cannot take much damage. In closing I do not recommend anyone to try it most will never do it any other way it's a hassle it's time consuming it can be very depressing and frustrating no matter how good you are you still will miss still waste gear. And bye the way it makes your arms sore and ache and hard all the time

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

This is desirable for the rush or norepinephrine which is processed into adrenaline,

hey you seem like you know your stuff. Can you please explain why it is said that stimulants release/elevate blood levels mainly of dopamine and norepinephrine? epinephrine is not mentioned in those associations as far as I can remember. Is it really just prodrug to epinephrine then? How does the natural fight/flight-reaction work, is human body able to release plain simple epinephrine under threat or is it always norepinephrine first before conversion? I've been always curious about this and maybe even read explanation once or twice but have forgotten ever even doing that.

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

So I see some outdated or possibly inaccurate information throughout everything I share is from experience research and knowledge. Going to share some facts about the substance and IV for new individuals. Fact 90% of the meth in the U.S. is from Mexico and highly pure P2P meth. This synthesis yields the most D that's what gets you high the cartels and main distributions don't cut it Fact! They don't have the regulations and security the US has to obtain the precursors in fact ephedrine isn't even used it's phenyl 2 propanone it yields the most D isomer fact. Ephedrine 2nd. The worst and most dirty meth is made in the US made with pseudoephedrine which yields the lowest D isomer and has to be stripped out using the most volatile chemicals and nasty process for a sub par impure product Fact. Pretty much shake and bake and one pot methods all that really is local to the US anymore due to the fact you can't get the precursors. So all those old stories that meth used to be way better when jack down the street made it is a wise tale and simply BS it was made with pseudoephedrine which makes the worst dope lowest D isomer and very impure you start with a impure main ingredient you get a impure product fact 55 60% if they know what they doing compared to 90% coming out of Mexico it's low level street guys cutting it if it's cut. So when you get the shitty dope that kinda just makes you jittery and upset stomach that's US pseudo meth you can taste the damn cold meds in it. When you get the real good stuff that's pretty abundant at least where I'm at and it makes you real euphoric and horny you can bet the farm it came from Mexico. When you get the trash dirty stuff that's your local home made cold med experiment from America. We may have better a lot of things but not dope I will not entertain arguments of objective truth these are facts look it up

I will share the documentation i have saved that illustrates the overall purity averages in the US, but I do know that seized samples not by border patrol but by local county to county police departments at the end of the distribution chain still average in the 90% purity range

I have no even educated guess as to where the large but not really statistically significant illicit pseudoephedrine and ephedrine powder goes that is seized entering the US. My suspicion is small communicating groups of individuals who synthesize drugs as a passion and love of the thrill. Likely made up of individuals with a self taught understanding of organic chemistry that falls into the higher education range, if not actually have academic degrees or titles in organic chemistry. Their product would probably be sourced through the dark net to reach a sort of "craft beer" type audience.

There are a handful of viable options to source or even produce from legal precursors ephedrine and pseudoephedrine, but I don't forsee a clandestine project motivated by cravings and desire to supply oneself with the drug would want to go through the additional steps. The latter personality of course is going to be where most local production stems from as limits on the ephedra alkaloid rich cold pills don't allow for a yield that is profitable to prepare for sale. If I was in that conundrum I would absolutely favor the shake n bake process so I 100% agree with you there. I can't really understand why residual cold pill solids would make it out into the finished product as the required extraction steps and precipitation would surely give you a yield free of at least the binders flavor and dye? What's left could still be dirty and precipitate out with under or.over reduced pseudo and it's intermediate... and at that point a cook following a "recipe" likely wouldn't know or even have the means to remove those impurities.

Maybe you can help me with a question, earlier this year after I had done my own experimenting with chemistry, there was a somewhat coordinated rollout of multiple pseudoephedrine brands and some stores generics that now contain a second "active" ingredient that is similar enough to pseudo to make the pills no longer viable. Is this at every major retailer? I only skimmed a headline and saw mention of the two big name convenience store and.pharmacy chains but not grocery stores.

Ok so you want to start IV meth pros cons

I don't know that I mentioned anything about IV as an ROA except to say that I feel meth is at its best taken orally and in spite of smoking being my poison of choice purely out of fidgety addiction

I try to frame my stance on IV meth as so; I will share with anyone considering trying it who has not committed the potential risks should they ever get too comfortable and cut corners on the proper administration steps, and that the bioavailability isn't really impressive compared to rectal or oral doses (but the onset of effects is still king of the RoAs)

If a person made sure to follow every step purifying their meth, using sterile needles, and preserving the availability of veins all they'd need to monitor is their redosing urges and they could control the majority of the most serious potential risks. Not everybody has that discipline for more than a few weeks, but plenty do

If somebody's ROA is already IV for meth or even if the person intravenously administers opioids and is planning to try meth by way of the same ROA I don't see any purpose in singling it out aside from maybe saying hey do you have a good easy injection step by step? And if not I send them a website I really like the layout and humor of

My best friend's ROA was always IV, and she is honestly still a role model level individual juggling college, the life of a single parent, and full time running a business. I often forget how we met at this point because there's no signs of exhaustion or impatience or anxiety at all. And three months ago when she won a probation hearing and the violation was correctly found to be dubious she immediately quit using and I never heard a peep about it. Just dropped it like it was yesterday's paper. There's something about Abigail that really just exists in the moment, and grants her this sharp and reserved intelligence and durability.

Anyways with something like IV use I really find it counterproductive when people go any further than saying that it's a route where you can't get sloppy, and can't get casual or cut corners. Shaming an adult for their curiosity after giving them the information to choose in fairness seems like a great way to damage a connection of trust, and hurt the impress of someone safe and judgement free that there is an open line of communication to. You can't control the decisions of adults, and as you no I get very hot and bothered at the notion of using disinformation to serve as manipulation even if I believe I could force a better outcome.

The goal is to build trust, and if things get bad then you can be a much needed voice of support.

First of I don't recommend it your tolerance will go up and there'is more risk involved with that said people going to what they wanna do so let's get some correct information out. First off Why is meth bad to shoot well it's acidic and harsh so not very good for your veins it dehydrates you causing your veins to constrict shrink and roll around and thats not ideal so stay hydrated. With all that it makes you kinda shake mixed with smaller constricted veins leads to a miss. What's a miss that's when you either go through or don't make it in the vein and hurts like hell and swells up everyone misses some more than others. When you miss with meth you usually stop instantly it burns but not always be careful. Some stupid stuff I hear it's better to use hardly any water untrue the more diluted your shot the better your veins will be water is less harmful fact don't fill the dang thing up all they way 35 to 45cc is probably about what you want. People say meth is the worst to shoot compared to other substances well not really if you miss you probably going to know pretty quick so you avoid a complete missed shot. If you miss can you get a abscess yes but highly highly unlikely if you have sterile needle and clean skin meth is very caustic and harsh so bacteria and germs don't tend to want anything to do with it meth will eat the stain off a table micro organisms won't survive long in contact with it. So if you miss do you need panic and go to emergency room possibly but if you use clean tools probably not use a warm towel then a lil ice it should start to get better in a day or two if it doesn't then go. I have personally never seen someone have to go because of a abscess but that doesn't mean it can't happen it will leave a hard spot and be tender for quite some time from tissue damage in the area be prepared it's going to happen eventually even with a pro. I have seen some abscess from heroin and cocaine bacteria can grow in it much easier I have never shot either so can't get into much detail. How much should you do ? Well I'm not a doctor or your body I can give you a generic idea. If you have never done meth before your dose should be 0 snort some see how that works out. if you are not a frequent user .1 should rock you maybe do a lil less. If your tolerance is high but you never iv before .2 is going to rock you maybe do a lil less that's what I take at most .3 that's big and quite scary rush for me don't do it often. If your taking a bigger dose than that your asking for a unpleasant experience. Can u fatally acute OD from meth like heroin/opiates I don't know or heard of anyone that has from a single dose that wasn't absurdly large. I think it's something like 2 or more grams at once for it to be fatally toxic to a healthy human that's a lot and know way you could do that in short period without eating it on purpose or something like that. Where to start? Well don't start. With that said hold your arms straight out with you palms up look in the bend of your arm that big vein in the bend close to the surface learn there least risky place kinda of a hollow pit so when you miss and you will lots of space and room for swelling. Carefully insert the rig in pointing up your arm at yourself slowly pull back the plunger if you get a good flow of blood in the needle not a faint trickle very steady and slowly inject if it hurts immediately stop you messed up. Are those the best veins? Not in my opinion but start there. Next hold you arms out with palms down look at the bend on the top part if your arm on the inside above your elbow maybe you can see em if not you can feel em those are the least painful and less likely to move they go all the way to your arm those are the best for a lot of people once you know what your doing. DO NOT try your hands your legs your wrist they are super hard to get will probably blow out and if you miss going to very bad lots of pain lots of very bad stuff could happen nerves artery's definitely going to have to go the emergency room! I should not have to say don't hit your neck or face if you fuck up probably could die if your in the neck it's time to get help imo. The veins on the bottom of your forearm I also would not recommend they are smaller deeper and just not a good idea they hurt badly could be arterial blood vessels so pushing the substance into your hand not your body also not good. Go onto you tube or something to watch the basics of iv safety and sterilization and a vein chart. How many times can you use I needle? Ok this is also important ideally one time throw it out they get dull and you will miss and have leaks and more damage to your veins if you keep the same one. Does it suck to go in and buy new ones yes but worth it! This always isn't possible so for me I'm not you the needle is still sharp after one go I save it wash it put up for emergency move to a next one if I have to use it again it usually is fine then I throw it out immediately because 3 and 4 uses that point is dull and rolling and tearing your comfortable access spots you don't have many. I messed up one of my crooks when I was a novice it disappeared never came back don't know where it went. The right one I thought the same it got hard and small and was going away I got very depressed took a break and luckily after about a week I noticed it was back at the surface and big and soft again I will never use it again it was a miracle. My left top forearm that's my trusty spot been through hell when it stops registering one time I take a break and let it heal it up do not keep poking and poking at it be patient it will heal if you let it. If I mess it up funs over I will not hit legs hands go digging around for a new one I've tried before never any luck it will be time for a new adventure. Some ending notes after you have taken 2 or three shots your vines get rubbery and become impossible to hit that's your body telling you break time mofo if you obsess over that shot and poke over and over you won't have any luck and will be waiting longer because your not letting it heal. Iv does not give you the same high as smoking and snorting it's very very different much more intense at first then a very long lasting mellow energetic feeling so easy for me to be un noticed and normal if you wanna be tweaked the hell out twack star status all day it ain't for you. The rush is addictive and if you think you can just go all Willy nilly and just pop away as much as your little heart desires your mistaken. If you have small or deep hard to find veins this isn't a option for your standard ROA don't try it won't work you will have a horrible time waste all your gear and be in lots of pain and miss all the time and partially miss every time and usually are one and done. Most girls also have a really hard time they have smaller veins thinner walls and cannot take much damage. In closing I do not recommend anyone to try it most will never do it any other way it's a hassle it's time consuming it can be very depressing and frustrating no matter how good you are you still will miss still waste gear. And bye the way it makes your arms sore and ache and hard all the time

You've got a good write up. Now you need to convince whoever makes the final call on the subreddits policy to allow experienced IV users to have discussion with people who post questions about using for the first time or those who are distressed or feel they're injured from a mistake or just too big of a rush.

The policy that IV use just has to be pretended to not exist isn't honest, and it's not harm reduction. Your voice as an experienced user of that ROA and authoritative figure is a powerful asset that's completely wasted when you have to usher people away to an isolated subreddit. Bit dramatic of me to say this but it feels a bit dehumanizing, separating IV users even in that small way. I know you have been saying that for ages, but I'm with you 1000%.

I'm burnt out of reading government data papers about fuckin meth for the week so I've taken the last four days off of research, writing, and bothering to throw sources at trolls, but I will link those sample testing results for you later

The only thing I know for sure is the salt lattices won't co-crystalize beyond a fine powder except when 75% of the "shard" is enantio-pure meth of one or the other isomer. So the maximum amount that one could adulterate crystalline meth by re-rocking is a quarter. Someone could try slipping bunk salt crystals of some similar looking chemical in loose with the meth crystals but idk that I've seen an example of a compound that isn't obvious contrasting in appearance when you put them right next to each other

Appreciate you.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

oh sorry it was for metamphetnanpiuyus.

 

[P2PmostDsorryRnB]

hey you seem like you know your stuff. Can you please explain why it is said that stimulants release/elevate blood levels mainly of dopamine and norepinephrine? epinephrine is not mentioned in those associations as far as I can remember. Is it really just prodrug to epinephrine then? How does the natural fight/flight-reaction work, is human body able to release plain simple epinephrine under threat or is it always norepinephrine first before conversion? I've been always curious about this and maybe even read explanation once or twice but have forgotten ever even doing that.

It was long before my time it was completely federally regulated pseudo and p2 where my time span

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

hey you seem like you know your stuff. Can you please explain why it is said that stimulants release/elevate blood levels mainly of dopamine and norepinephrine? epinephrine is not mentioned in those associations as far as I can remember. Is it really just prodrug to epinephrine then? How does the natural fight/flight-reaction work, is human body able to release plain simple epinephrine under threat or is it always norepinephrine first before conversion? I've been always curious about this and maybe even read explanation once or twice but have forgotten ever even doing that.

Good question, norepinephrine and epinephrine play off of each other and work together to induce flight or fight body conditions. Dopamine also does a lot more than just regulate reward memory decision making, focus, and provide us with motivation to complete tedious tasks; it too informs the body and brain to behave as though we are isolated from our community alone in a potentially hostile survival circumstance. The libido is because the brain makes genetic lineage an urgent priority because it thinks there's a chance we don't survive much longer. Orgasm rewards reproduction (even if it's just porn and a hand) and now we are self reinforcing an unnecessary and pointless action. Dopamine also is what keeps you from feeling sleepy, hungry, or thirsty, and it heightens your sense of suspicion and distrust as an actually extremely helpful survival enhancement.... if we were actually in a fight or flight circumstance. When we're not it escalates to paranoia and eventually delusions if you go that far

Anyways norepinephrine and epinephrine are interchangeable names for noradrenaline and adrenaline. They're the exact same chemical, they just have multiple identifications depending on region. Norepinephrine is always active and stays in the brain, when we get stressed it starts giving us those mental feelings of dread and jumpiness, but it also sends the signal to the kidneys to release epinephrine.

Epinephrine is basically norepinephrine sounding the bodily alarm. Epinephrine functions DIRECTLY in the body, norepinephrines physiological action is done through the brain. Epinephrine binds at sites located on every major organ in the body, and overrides their normal functioning and demands they now function in fight or flight mode.

Stomach queasyness and constipation can occur when this is done too often or aggressively, but essentially more energy is given to the heart lungs and brain, and other major organs function at bare minimum and lose communication privileges. No hunger signal, thirst signal, not stopping and peeing or pooping, etc.

So thats roughly how it all works. Keep in mind dopamine and norepinephrine do cause potentially unpleasant physiological side effects of their own by issuing brain commands. In fact dopamine is responsible for the INCREASE in cardiovascular activity which is sometimes a source of unpleasantness in non-emergancy ODs

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

It was long before my time it was completely federally regulated pseudo and p2 where my time span

BTW.. I don't think 90-95% purity necessarily invalidates the dirtiness or clean and smooth variations people feel with meth. The hydrochloride is supposed to pH between 7-8, weakly basic. But modern street samples average at a 5, and thats mostly due to a LOT of samples at an unbelievable 3 pH. Way acidic enough to cause digestive system issues, rot teeth, and blister tongues. The more acidic the product is, the less bioavailable it becomes. The pH has a very meaningful impact on the potency, and the aim for a weakly basic salt is because the body is weakly acidic usually same idea as to why the "baking soda trick" assists with absorption.

On top of THAT god knows what implications combustion of some of these P2P, methylamine, and intermediate byproducts can cause in the body.


I will say this, the product I've gotten over the last year has definitely had unique characteristics each time, and the last bag I bought was quite unpleasant... felt like an oil was coating my teeth and mouth, and I got those blisters on my tongue.

Was seeing that same piss colored ice slurry looking crack back that people are posting. A few months back I spilled a bit of water into the pill bottle I used to secure my meth in, and the previously impressive product took on characteristics like this batch.

I used a small space heater and a packet of silica gel like in beef jerkey hoping that the dry ultra water friendly salt had been siphoning water out of the extremely foggy, rainy, and humid Midwest environment last week. Idk if that's how water got absorbed into the crystals: but drying the shit fixed every single issue. It removed the yellow discoloration with even light heat, recrystalization uniformity and sharper more defined pattern like actual cracks, removed that fuckin foul weird taste, and my sores started to heal even while using.


It's just my one experiment and theory, but I think it's an easy enough and harmless enough hypothesis and solution to maybe suggest it and see what results others have

 

[P2PmostDsorryRnB]

I'm also from the Midwest 100% agree Caustic chemicals in all synthesis if done perfectly and PHd down to a lil above neutral p2 will be the only acceptable synthesis if done properly anything else is pretty much fake imo. I'm right in the middle of the Midwest we usually have a everlasting supply of top quality although about a month ago some very dirty low quality stuff very dusty that white powdering the shards and very brittle was scattered everywhere it was trash haven't seen that garb for years until recently

 

[P2PmostDsorryRnB]

Good question, norepinephrine and epinephrine play off of each other and work together to induce flight or fight body conditions. Dopamine also does a lot more than just regulate reward memory decision making, focus, and provide us with motivation to complete tedious tasks; it too informs the body and brain to behave as though we are isolated from our community alone in a potentially hostile survival circumstance. The libido is because the brain makes genetic lineage an urgent priority because it thinks there's a chance we don't survive much longer. Orgasm rewards reproduction (even if it's just porn and a hand) and now we are self reinforcing an unnecessary and pointless action. Dopamine also is what keeps you from feeling sleepy, hungry, or thirsty, and it heightens your sense of suspicion and distrust as an actually extremely helpful survival enhancement.... if we were actually in a fight or flight circumstance. When we're not it escalates to paranoia and eventually delusions if you go that far

Anyways norepinephrine and epinephrine are interchangeable names for noradrenaline and adrenaline. They're the exact same chemical, they just have multiple identifications depending on region. Norepinephrine is always active and stays in the brain, when we get stressed it starts giving us those mental feelings of dread and jumpiness, but it also sends the signal to the kidneys to release epinephrine.

Epinephrine is basically norepinephrine sounding the bodily alarm. Epinephrine functions DIRECTLY in the body, norepinephrines physiological action is done through the brain. Epinephrine binds at sites located on every major organ in the body, and overrides their normal functioning and demands they now function in fight or flight mode.

Stomach queasyness and constipation can occur when this is done too often or aggressively, but essentially more energy is given to the heart lungs and brain, and other major organs function at bare minimum and lose communication privileges. No hunger signal, thirst signal, not stopping and peeing or pooping, etc.

So thats roughly how it all works. Keep in mind dopamine and norepinephrine do cause potentially unpleasant physiological side effects of their own by issuing brain commands. In fact dopamine is responsible for the INCREASE in cardiovascular activity which is sometimes a source of unpleasantness in non-emergancy ODs

You seem to be very educated on the how the brain and body reacts to stims from a medical and scientific standpoint kinda makes you think in a new light might share this with a buddy always down in himself and ashamed of his stim use

 

[P2PmostDsorryRnB]

BTW.. I don't think 90-95% purity necessarily invalidates the dirtiness or clean and smooth variations people feel with meth. The hydrochloride is supposed to pH between 7-8, weakly basic. But modern street samples average at a 5, and thats mostly due to a LOT of samples at an unbelievable 3 pH. Way acidic enough to cause digestive system issues, rot teeth, and blister tongues. The more acidic the product is, the less bioavailable it becomes. The pH has a very meaningful impact on the potency, and the aim for a weakly basic salt is because the body is weakly acidic usually same idea as to why the "baking soda trick" assists with absorption.

On top of THAT god knows what implications combustion of some of these P2P, methylamine, and intermediate byproducts can cause in the body.


I will say this, the product I've gotten over the last year has definitely had unique characteristics each time, and the last bag I bought was quite unpleasant... felt like an oil was coating my teeth and mouth, and I got those blisters on my tongue.

Was seeing that same piss colored ice slurry looking crack back that people are posting. A few months back I spilled a bit of water into the pill bottle I used to secure my meth in, and the previously impressive product took on characteristics like this batch.

I used a small space heater and a packet of silica gel like in beef jerkey hoping that the dry ultra water friendly salt had been siphoning water out of the extremely foggy, rainy, and humid Midwest environment last week. Idk if that's how water got absorbed into the crystals: but drying the shit fixed every single issue. It removed the yellow discoloration with even light heat, recrystalization uniformity and sharper more defined pattern like actual cracks, removed that fuckin foul weird taste, and my sores started to heal even while using.


It's just my one experiment and theory, but I think it's an easy enough and harmless enough hypothesis and solution to maybe suggest it and see what results others have

I do believe quality and purity have a lil to do with the smoothness and way I feel. less quality means lower D isomer that is the chemical compound that releases dopamine and produces the high if it's a racemic mess with more Levo it's going to be shaky jittery and way less smooth for me it could be done filtered and washed correctly yes. But in my experience the two usually go hand in hand

 

[P2PmostDsorryRnB]

BTW.. I don't think 90-95% purity necessarily invalidates the dirtiness or clean and smooth variations people feel with meth. The hydrochloride is supposed to pH between 7-8, weakly basic. But modern street samples average at a 5, and thats mostly due to a LOT of samples at an unbelievable 3 pH. Way acidic enough to cause digestive system issues, rot teeth, and blister tongues. The more acidic the product is, the less bioavailable it becomes. The pH has a very meaningful impact on the potency, and the aim for a weakly basic salt is because the body is weakly acidic usually same idea as to why the "baking soda trick" assists with absorption.

On top of THAT god knows what implications combustion of some of these P2P, methylamine, and intermediate byproducts can cause in the body.


I will say this, the product I've gotten over the last year has definitely had unique characteristics each time, and the last bag I bought was quite unpleasant... felt like an oil was coating my teeth and mouth, and I got those blisters on my tongue.

Was seeing that same piss colored ice slurry looking crack back that people are posting. A few months back I spilled a bit of water into the pill bottle I used to secure my meth in, and the previously impressive product took on characteristics like this batch.

I used a small space heater and a packet of silica gel like in beef jerkey hoping that the dry ultra water friendly salt had been siphoning water out of the extremely foggy, rainy, and humid Midwest environment last week. Idk if that's how water got absorbed into the crystals: but drying the shit fixed every single issue. It removed the yellow discoloration with even light heat, recrystalization uniformity and sharper more defined pattern like actual cracks, removed that fuckin foul weird taste, and my sores started to heal even while using.


It's just my one experiment and theory, but I think it's an easy enough and harmless enough hypothesis and solution to maybe suggest it and see what results others have

Blisters can be from the acidity also from unknowingly rubbing your tongue on the roof of your mouth against teeth ect l would get them when it's really good clean stuff I knew for fact was proper then realized I was rubbing the back of my tungue on the back roof of my mouth and clinching up jaw muscles. I would have to take a very long break for that effect again that's when your zoots Magoots

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

Blisters can be from the acidity also from unknowingly rubbing your tongue on the roof of your mouth against teeth ect l would get them when it's really good clean stuff I knew for fact was proper then realized I was rubbing the back of my tungue on the back roof of my mouth and clinching up jaw muscles. I would have to take a very long break for that effect again that's when your zoots Magoots

It's both yeah, it's dropping the pH of my mouth and blistering from the acidity

I do still have jaw movements and eventually get sore muscles, but these tongue ulcers appear near instantly and the best relief I've found is swishing sodium bicarbonate. Its also only gotten this servere on the first day twice before, both had the yellowish darkening when first melted, foulish bile taste, and it induces like exceptional amounts of sebum production on my skin, I'm sticky and oily, but it's not the viscosity of my natural oils and sweats.


I think there's hydrochloric acid trapped in the shards maybe somehow... the taste of bile is giving me an entirely baseless hunch. Can sprinkling a teeny amount of my baking soda push up the pH without involving heat or a big fanfair?

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

It's both yeah, it's dropping the pH of my mouth and blistering from the acidity

I do still have jaw movements and eventually get sore muscles, but these tongue ulcers appear near instantly and the best relief I've found is swishing sodium bicarbonate. Its also only gotten this servere on the first day twice before, both had the yellowish darkening when first melted, foulish bile taste, and it induces like exceptional amounts of sebum production on my skin, I'm sticky and oily, but it's not the viscosity of my natural oils and sweats.


I think there's hydrochloric acid trapped in the shards maybe somehow... the taste of bile is giving me an entirely baseless hunch. Can sprinkling a teeny amount of my baking soda push up the pH without involving heat or a big fanfair?

BASELESS HAHA

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

Little areas of the epidermas layer on my left hand look like they're beginning to peel up, think like a sunburn or snake skin shed.

This is a new one. Lol.

 

[Methamphetanonymous]

First off the simple question. The HCl salt is more potent than the sulfate salt because HCl has a smaller molar mass. If you put a gram of HCl and a gram of sulfate on a scale, the HCl will have more amphetamine molecules since there's 6.022E23 molecules in a mole. Hydrogen is ~1 atomic mass units (a single proton for the most abundant isotope) and chloride has 35.4 atomic mass units (17 protons, 18 neutrons usually) making for 36.4 g/mol. Sulfate, or has 96.1 atomic mass units and two acidic functional groups when sulfuric acid before sulfuric acid reacts and forms a sulfate anion with a base at 2:1 moles of base and sulfuric acid allowing for 2 amphetamine molecules for every 1. So amphetamine freebase is 135.21 moles of amphetamine per gram.

There's 135.21 + 35.4 = 170.4 moles of amphetamine HCl in a gram, while there's 135.21 + 84.25/2 moles = 177.34 moles of amphetamine sulfate in a gram.

93.10/135.21 then multiplied by Avagado's number makes 0.69 moles of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine sulfate. This makes there 5.91E17 or 591,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of amphetamine per gram amphetamine hemisulfate.

135.21- 35.4 = 170.61 mol/g making 135.21/170.61= 0.79 moles of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine HCl making 6.81E17 or 681,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of amphetamine in a gram of amphetamine HCl

Therefore there's almost 100 quadrillion molecules more of amphetamine per gram of amphetamine HCl than 1 gram of amphetamine sulfate.

That took longer than expected to explain. I'll answer the other question later.

Sorry to dig up a quote from a million years ago but it's a good question I don't see discussion on often

So while your very technical explanation is interesting new information to me, why drugs are chosen with certain salts is in truth much more simple, pharmaceutical companies will choose the first salt that has fine water solubility, reasonable stability, and is as cheap as possible.

Interestingly up until the mid-ish 20th century drug patents specified the salt as part of the formulation. Since then all salts of the formulation are umbrellad into the patent. So for example if you discovered and patented morphine HCL in 1889 or whatever, a competitor could patent morphine sulfate and compete(interestingly both salts offer medically unique benefits and morphine can be found in both types today). Today, if you patented morphine HCL nobody can sell any other version. Once the drug becomes open to generics it's better to stick with what the customer expects since salts cab vary wildly from what freebase they're binding to including in potency which is potentially dangerous.

Older drugs may be sold today in a quirky salt just because the original most well marketed product back in 1920 happened to be a citrate salt. Today, if it can be HCL or sulfate it will be 99% of the time.

Clandestine chemists and pharmaceutical companies alike will always opt for a hydrochloride salts first because hydrochloric acid is dirt cheap, abundant, consumer available and garuntees to play nice and predictable with our stomach acid. If not HCL then the sulfate will be the next choice because it's cheap, abundant, and consumer available. Street drugs that are neither HCL or sulfate are rare, because the risk-reward can drop sharply to attempt large scale production when other cheaper drugs can be made instead.

The only reason you don't see amphetamine hydrochloric is because it is insanely hydroscopic; it absorbs so much moisture from the air humidity so quickly that the salt will degrade into a slushy wet mess and evaporate away way too rapidly to be practical. I'm told it's a pain in the ass to HCL gas the freebase without great yield loss but I've not cared enough to see why

Methamphetamine sulfate isn't in that sweet volatility spot to both boast good stability and shelf life in an average environment and a melting and evaporating point below it's point of combustion. It can't be smoked, and the HCL is stable enough, water soluable enough, and tolerates the stomach enough while also being able to smoke.

Not that there needs to be another reason, but I daydreamed about making a meth sulfate and the crystallization was frustrating, it had a strange unpleasant color and was much less potent and took ages to kick in. I read on a forum somewhere that the color, flaky small crystals, and low potency was all normal. Someone explained the theory is that the counter ion doesn't play well on meth.

 

[TheGyattDamnRizzler]

Hey what's up. I'm hyped to post on this thread it's cool lol. I do have serious question though. I have been slamming a very humble amount of ice about two to three times every 24 hours for a month or two.

My urine has been smelling like hand sanitizer and it's really disgusting. I have experienced this back in 2018 and 2019 as well with the cleaner ice. I'm currently shooting the Mexican old lady perfume stuff and I have that smell seaping out of me too.

I always thought the hand sanitizer piss smell was my kidneys. I try to google it and I get a million different horrible things. So yeah if anyone knows hit me with a reply.