Stimulants Caffeine, Safe but counter-productive stimulant?

[Neuroprotection]

Right now about 2months, but I do this loop at least once per year lol.

For me its the opposite, after been on coffeine for a few months my need to take the edge of increases.
Usually just a heavy cannabis habit, but it happens that some xanax or a oxy slips down once in awhile aswell.

Generally im not much into other drugs except psychedelics and ket.
The consumtion of these seems about the same with or without.
I also take Kratom once per week more or less.
Had a few stints of daily consumtion with it though.
2 periods of about 6months each where i ended up doing between 5-10g a day in the end.
I would probably been doing higher doses, but i was smart enough to have at least 5different strains at home at most times.


For me ive noticed that a healtyish polydrug habit seems alot less destructive then trying to find one or two things that keeps me going.
I try to live a active lifestyle with martial arts training etc.
And as much as possible use supplements and food to regulate my mood and energy.
Then I can save the big guns for those really hard days.

Just out of interest, have you tried high dose nicotine. for me, using that for a few months whenever I can secretly get hold of it made me really successful at University work and made me a much more functional person. I understand that replacing one substance with another sounds counter-productive, but I think if that new substance is more helpful for me, it could be a worthwhile trade-off. for example, I do admit that caffeine is probably much safer than nicotine, but it’s also much less effective for me and worsens my procrastination. once I’m financially independent, I wouldn’t mind getting addicted to nicotine, preferably administered by the 30 mg tobacco free pouches or Swedish Snuss, particularly the Siberia brand which can contain up to 45 mg of nicotine per pouch. I am very sad that this product is banned in the UK.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Just out of interest, have you tried high dose nicotine. for me, using that for a few months whenever I can secretly get hold of it made me really successful at University work and made me a much more functional person. I understand that replacing one substance with another sounds counter-productive, but I think if that new substance is more helpful for me, it could be a worthwhile trade-off. for example, I do admit that caffeine is probably much safer than nicotine, but it’s also much less effective for me and worsens my procrastination. once I’m financially independent, I wouldn’t mind getting addicted to nicotine, preferably administered by the 30 mg tobacco free pouches or Swedish Snuss, particularly the Siberia brand which can contain up to 45 mg of nicotine per pouch. I am very sad that this product is banned in the UK.

Im a daily user of something called "Snus".
Its a swedish kind of chewing tobacco, but its in a small pouch in a similar material as a teabag.
You just put it between your upper lip and the gums.
Its basicly only a thing in Sweden, but ive heard of some people importing small amounts for personal use.
Its probably the least harmful way to take tobacco.
Its made different then regular chew and research claims its effect on cancer etc is alot lower then basicly every other form.

I also enjoy the Rape' style of tobacco from South America.
Its finely ground Mapacho mixed with lime and sometimes other plants.
You blow it up your own nose with a special tool.
Gives a real nice kick with a burn up your nostril.
Really wakes you up and focused.

Originally i just picked up the nicotine habit from all the hash joints ive smoked since a teenager.
Was a daily cannabis smoker for quite a few years.
But never enjoyed just plain cigs, just the synergy with thc.

The mouth tobacco is something i started with just a few years ago.
Barely ingest any thc ATM so it keeps whatever cravings i have under control.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Im a daily user of something called "Snus".
Its a swedish kind of chewing tobacco, but its in a small pouch in a similar material as a teabag.
You just put it between your upper lip and the gums.
Its basicly only a thing in Sweden, but ive heard of some people importing small amounts for personal use.
Its probably the least harmful way to take tobacco.
Its made different then regular chew and research claims its effect on cancer etc is alot lower then basicly every other form.

I also enjoy the Rape' style of tobacco from South America.
Its finely ground Mapacho mixed with lime and sometimes other plants.
You blow it up your own nose with a special tool.
Gives a real nice kick with a burn up your nostril.
Really wakes you up and focused.

Originally i just picked up the nicotine habit from all the hash joints ive smoked since a teenager.
Was a daily cannabis smoker for quite a few years.
But never enjoyed just plain cigs, just the synergy with thc.

The mouth tobacco is something i started with just a few years ago.
Barely ingest any thc ATM so it keeps whatever cravings i have under control.

So do you agree that nicotine is a better stimulant for focus than caffeine?

 

[Bitchniggaz]

So do you agree that nicotine is a better stimulant for focus than caffeine?

For me its probably true, but I dont really use it mainly for focus.
Its def a nice side effect, but I basicly started with it to help cravings from the hashjoints.
I do enjoy the habit and atm have no reason to quit.

But im aware that im using it to avoid nicotine wd.
When i have periods of thc consumtion i barely touch the snus.
But instead i smoke joints all day.

 

[Neuroprotection]

For me its probably true, but I dont really use it mainly for focus.
Its def a nice side effect, but I basicly started with it to help cravings from the hashjoints.
I do enjoy the habit and atm have no reason to quit.

But im aware that im using it to avoid nicotine wd.
When i have periods of thc consumtion i barely touch the snus.
But instead i smoke joints all day.

Thank you for explaining that. this is why I would love to replace caffeine with nicotine. I know full well, nicotine is more dangerous or at least more addictive than caffeine and has much more powerful psychological effects. nevertheless, I feel that its benefit’s far outweigh the risks for me.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Thank you for explaining that. this is why I would love to replace caffeine with nicotine. I know full well, nicotine is more dangerous or at least more addictive than caffeine and has much more powerful psychological effects. nevertheless, I feel that its benefit’s far outweigh the risks for me.

I beleive that pure nicotine is not really to bad compared to cigarettes etc.
I know several "biohacker" gurus who use nicotine patches as a notropic.

Or maybe look into "snus" and see if its possible to import.
However be warned that snus is probably even harder to quit compared to smoking.
Most users inc me put in a pouch as soon as we wake up.
Ans then basicly switch them for a new one every 1-3h until bedtime.
The market here is quite big and we got all kinds of brands with different strengths and flavours.

There is also alot of people making their own from tobacco leaf, there is a process of cooking and preparing it.

New Swedish Study: Snus has minimal effects on the body - Pouch Patrol

Nicotine in Swedish snus does not affect the body very much at all, according to a new study from Linköping University. The researcher compares the effect of snus on the body to coffee and says that the study provides justification for leaving snus more at peace.

pouchpatrol.com

 

[Neuroprotection]

I beleive that pure nicotine is not really to bad compared to cigarettes etc.
I know several "biohacker" gurus who use nicotine patches as a notropic.

Or maybe look into "snus" and see if its possible to import.
However be warned that snus is probably even harder to quit compared to smoking.
Most users inc me put in a pouch as soon as we wake up.
Ans then basicly switch them for a new one every 1-3h until bedtime.
The market here is quite big and we got all kinds of brands with different strengths and flavours.

There is also alot of people making their own from tobacco leaf, there is a process of cooking and preparing it.

New Swedish Study: Snus has minimal effects on the body - Pouch Patrol

Nicotine in Swedish snus does not affect the body very much at all, according to a new study from Linköping University. The researcher compares the effect of snus on the body to coffee and says that the study provides justification for leaving snus more at peace.

pouchpatrol.com

Oh yes, I’m fully aware of Snuss. I already mentioned it in my first reply to you, but as I said, the main issue seems to be that it is illegal in the UK where I live. I really want to try the Siberia brand which contains 45 mg of nicotine per pouch.
I use nicotine a little differently from those who use it as a nootropic. they tend to use it in very small doses on occasion to improve learning/memory. for me, it’s about using high doses on a daily basis to desensitise me to the general pain of having to sit down and do mental work.
This worked very well for me in the past when I stole and abused my fathers abandoned nicotine replacement products, but unfortunately I can’t get any more nicotine yet as I am blind and financially dependent on my family who would never approve of such use.

 

[Neuroprotection]

despite all the negatives caffeine has had on me, I still think it has some amazing context dependent benefits. for example, the stimulation is generally more positive when in a good mood already or in a low stress environment. it’s also really good for physical/manual work due to its alerting effects and noticeable improvements in physical exertion, as someone else has previously mentioned.
If I wasn’t blind, I would very likely have chosen a manual job and would never have opened this thread since caffeine would’ve been perfect for me.
I know this, because in the almost stress free Time of the Covid lockdown, where I had no mental work to do, I absolutely loved caffeine. it lifted my mood, helped me exercise and pursue my hobbies with the endless free time I had.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Oh yes, I’m fully aware of Snuss. I already mentioned it in my first reply to you, but as I said, the main issue seems to be that it is illegal in the UK where I live. I really want to try the Siberia brand which contains 45 mg of nicotine per pouch.
I use nicotine a little differently from those who use it as a nootropic. they tend to use it in very small doses on occasion to improve learning/memory. for me, it’s about using high doses on a daily basis to desensitise me to the general pain of having to sit down and do mental work.
This worked very well for me in the past when I stole and abused my fathers abandoned nicotine replacement products, but unfortunately I can’t get any more nicotine yet as I am blind and financially dependent on my family who would never approve of such use.

Oh sorry, missed that for some reason...

Sounds smart to not become dependent, esp nicotine which is extremely hard to quit.
And like you say, anything you do daily just becomes a baseline.
Then when you stop its going to have a negative impact on your daily life.
Of all the vices ive had and quit nicotine feels like so benign.
So atm using it daily is nothing i even anything i feel any remorse for.



Sounds rough to be dependent on anyone for your basic needs.
Hopefully you can get help from a friend or something who could buy you a few pockets or something.
Esp nicotine products are quite cheap.
Best case you could find someone in your area who grows his own tobacco, then he could throw together a homemade batch of snus for you.
Im sure there are some people who enjoy it in the UK and make their own because they cant import it.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Oh sorry, missed that for some reason...

Sounds smart to not become dependent, esp nicotine which is extremely hard to quit.
And like you say, anything you do daily just becomes a baseline.
Then when you stop its going to have a negative impact on your daily life.
Of all the vices ive had and quit nicotine feels like so benign.
So atm using it daily is nothing i even anything i feel any remorse for.



Sounds rough to be dependent on anyone for your basic needs.
Hopefully you can get help from a friend or something who could buy you a few pockets or something.
Esp nicotine products are quite cheap.
Best case you could find someone in your area who grows his own tobacco, then he could throw together a homemade batch of snus for you.
Im sure there are some people who enjoy it in the UK and make their own because they cant import it.

Thank you for that advice. If I am given the opportunity to go into the office for work, I could get a colleague to buy me some products.
Just want to clarify something about nicotine dependence. when I used nicotine frequently(Daily for a few months on end) by abusing my father’s replacement products, I didn’t reach baseline. to be honest, nicotine never helps me with cognition and that’s not really what I’m looking for. instead, it just seems to knumb me to the difficulties of mental tasks so I’m more likely to push through them rather than procrastinate. it also seem to make me somewhat disconnected from my negative emotions, like I could feel them but they just wouldn’t interfere with my task performance. meanwhile, my ability to feel positive emotions were either in slightly enhanced or unaffected.
I never seem to develop tolerance to these effects of nicotine, and the effects seem to get stronger over time. However, I don’t know if a more extended period of use would change things.

 

[Neuroprotection]

perhaps because of how pervasive it is, The concept of very occasional caffeine use is something I’ve hardly ever come across. however, there is one property of caffeine which makes it quite interesting as a drug. Basically, without a tolerance and when one hasn’t ingested it for a very long time, The main effects seem to be sleep disturbance and anxiety/agitation. this was the case for me when I re-introduced caffeine after a year without it at College. i got no pleasant sensations or mood lift at the beginning, this only started a few weeks after beginning daily consumption. recently, I came across a blog post that explained this phenomenon. through blocking adenosine and stimulating the nervous system, caffeine produces intense arousal thus masking fatigue. this heightened arousal could either be interpreted as excitement or stress depending on external conditions and the state of mind. The continuous unrelenting stress response, buildup of energy debt, development of tolerance (adenosine supersensitivity) and sleep deprivation all work together to chronically lower mood. furthermore, heightened adenosine sensitivity and the associated caffeine withdrawals which begin immediately after caffeine leaves the system, can temporarily impair cognition. once in this state, a dose of caffeine, then acts to immediately reverse these symptoms. to quote the article,“Caffeine proposes itself as the solution to the problem caffeine caused’.

 

[Neuroprotection]

reflecting on my caffeine free year at College, I noticed that I came to rely much more on my natural energy peaks and sometimes a snack. also, I was more likely to fall asleep whilst doing a task, but I was simultaneously more likely to persist on and finish it. I do wonder if my enhanced focus/persistence when off caffeine was due to proper Brain network control by adenosine and other inhibitory neurotransmitters. it should be noted that intense anxiety/stress arousal is genetically programmed to impair complex cognitive processing in favour of very fast reactions that could be necessary to preserve life in an emergency situation.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Just my personal experience, but for me, I find that consuming food along with or in close proximity to caffeine ingestion counteracts most of the positive effects and makes me rather lethargic. Interestingly, in the parts of my life where I wasn’t using caffeine at all, I tended to get some kind of energy/buzz from eating a meal, especially breakfast or a sugary snack. on caffeine, eating sugar is tasty, but the effects on my mood and energy levels are very negative. apparently there is an interaction between caffeine and feeding status due to caffeine‘s ability to raise blood sugar and free fatty acid levels. this means that in the fasting state, caffeine may boost exercise performance and possibly mental alertness via inducing mild temporary insulin resistance, helping the body access and utilise its own fat/sugar stores. however, adding in food, while a large dose of caffeine is active can confuse the body. firstly, the caffeine induced stress response/insulin resistance disturb glucose handling as a surge of new glucose enters through the digestive tract into the blood. The body is now more likely to overcompensate with a huge dose of insulin leading to a significant SugarCrash. furthermore, the caffeine induced stress response can slow down digestion and generally disturb nutrient handling, perhaps contributing to abdominal issues and general lethargy.
Therefore, caffeine may work well as a fat burner when doing prolonged moderate exercise in the fasted state.

 

[Mycophile]

Just my personal experience, but for me, I find that consuming food along with or in close proximity to caffeine ingestion counteracts most of the positive effects and makes me rather lethargic. Interestingly, in the parts of my life where I wasn’t using caffeine at all, I tended to get some kind of energy/buzz from eating a meal, especially breakfast or a sugary snack. on caffeine, eating sugar is tasty, but the effects on my mood and energy levels are very negative. apparently there is an interaction between caffeine and feeding status due to caffeine‘s ability to raise blood sugar and free fatty acid levels. this means that in the fasting state, caffeine may boost exercise performance and possibly mental alertness via inducing mild temporary insulin resistance, helping the body access and utilise its own fat/sugar stores. however, adding in food, while a large dose of caffeine is active can confuse the body. firstly, the caffeine induced stress response/insulin resistance disturb glucose handling as a surge of new glucose enters through the digestive tract into the blood. The body is now more likely to overcompensate with a huge dose of insulin leading to a significant SugarCrash. furthermore, the caffeine induced stress response can slow down digestion and generally disturb nutrient handling, perhaps contributing to abdominal issues and general lethargy.
Therefore, caffeine may work well as a fat burner when doing prolonged moderate exercise in the fasted state.

This is interesting because I got very into intermittent fasting years ago and now I'm trying to quit coffee for the nth time, along with tapering Klonopin. I really hope I can get off and stay off both.

But, for me, caffeine significantly worsens my already existing anxiety disorder, but it does so much worse when I'm in a fasted state, especially first thing in the morning when I'd generally just have 2 shots of espresso followed by 1/2 a cup of coffee and not even get out of bed till it kicked in. At that point I would usually have gone a considerable amount of time without eating, I would say often from 12-14 hours, which is really only a very mild fast. But as the days wore on and I continued to not eat and consume more coffee and exercise, my anxiety would worsen. Finally, since I would usually only eat one really huge meal at night, once it got to night time I'd REALLY be agitated, and when I finally ate it would help me calm down, probably because there was finally something to buffer the caffeine. However, then I would usually experience a MUCH worse crash than if I had eaten earlier. That doesn't mean I didn't still always get bad caffeine crashes, cause I did, but not eating would make them worse. BUT...caffeine does make it easier to fast for longer because it suppresses hunger.

But I really agree that the negatives of caffeine are HIGHLY underrated, especially for people like me with anxiety. It wakes me up BY CAUSING STRESS, which is what more and more scientists have proven. It's not a good energy but an "oh shit, a tiger's going to eat me" cortisol burst. It has DRAMATICALLY worsened my anxiety and depression as well as my sleep quality, and that's just from drinking an average of 4-4.5 cups per day which isn't as much as some people. It makes me need MUCH larger doses of Klonopin both for anxiety and sleep, as well as more melatonin, causing me to have a harder time waking up. And as you mentioned, my attention is much more scattered.

So it's day 4 off caffeine and I'm using a 7-day detox kit with some herbs, and I'm pretty out of it still but at least I'm MUCH calmer than usual. I can take less Klonopin and less melatonin. I REALLY hope I can stick to this. At the very least, there's something I have called "Paraxanthine" which is new to the market but which is a metabolite of caffeine produced in the body when we drink caffeine. It has far fewer negative effects on anxiety and crash, so IF I eventually mess up it will be with that. In the past every time I experimented with it I had to mix it with caffeine because it wasn't strong enough on its own, but after a detox that should change. There's also Ginseng which isn't as bad as caffeine. Also, Dr. Andrew Huberman says that if you can wait 1 to 1.5 hours after waking up to drink caffeine that you won't get a crash due to your adenosine receptors having time to wake up or something like that, so if I do mess up in the future I'll try that.

I just hope not drinking caffeine won't mean I can never drink alcohol or use any drug that makes me tired, because I really can't imagine waking up from a hangover without some kind of stimulant, but, again, there are others, and it's caused me so many problems that if that means I have to use fewer other drugs then I honestly think it's worth it. So yeah, I'll see what happens, but the less caffeine I drink the better.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

There are negative allosteric modulators of adenosine receptors.
Theacrine at least? Dynamax? I think that were the names.
They don't really do anything apparently if there is no adenosine contacting adenosine receptors (or some other compound interacting, I don't know if there is such thing)
While caffeine decreases signaling even if there was no adenosine present.
Apparently
Never tried, but you could look at them too. People say they are not as edgy.

 

[Mycophile]

There are negative allosteric modulators of adenosine receptors.
Theacrine at least? Dynamax? I think that were the names.
They don't really do anything apparently if there is no adenosine contacting adenosine receptors (or some other compound interacting, I don't know if there is such thing)
While caffeine decreases signaling even if there was no adenosine present.
Apparently
Never tried, but you could look at them too. People say they are not as edgy.

I looked up "allosteric modulator." So, by that do you mean these other things also work by blocking or interacting with adenosine like caffeine, but kind of differently? When you say they "don't do anything if there is no adenosine contacting the receptors" do you mean they have to be mixed with something else to be effective?

I've never heard of Theacrine or Dynamax, but I just looked them up, and from what little I read I'm already interested in getting and trying some Theacrine. Do you know if it's addictive? I'd guess it is, but if it's as safe as caffeine with fewer side effects then that's better. The Dynamax pills I saw so far were mixed with caffeine. I also ordered some Semax because someone said it's like caffeine with fewer side effects.

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Caffeine is inverse agonist, so it does opposite of what adenosine does in the target neuron https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25268872/ Also preventing adenosine of binding in the first place
Theacrine binds to different site in neuron than adenosine does, but it decreases the amount of signaling adenosine causes once it binds to its site

Also; I found this claim:
"At high doses, however, it has been demonstrated that caffeine may not act as an adenosine receptor antagonist, and other underlying mechanisms seem responsible of its negative effects (for a recent review Fredholm et al., 2017)."

"The mechanism(s) underlying high dose effects of caffeine are less well known. There is an association between caffeine-induced anxiety and one genetic variant of the A2AR gene (Alsene et al., 2003), but not with several other variants (Rogers et al., 2010). The down-ward slope of the biphasic dose-response curve to caffeine remains in A2AR knockout (KO) mice even though the stimulatory effect was eliminated, and it was suggested that A1 receptors may mediate the negative effects (El Yacoubi"

Does anyone have any knowledge if caffeine has any affinity to any other system? I recall, and I am pretty sure about this, that I once found complete affinity chart and there was affinity for some serotonin receptors and stuff, but I can not recall any Ki-values or stuff (not like I would be able to relate them to each other and be definitive about relevance of such anyway).

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

Like, if this compound 1 had X affinity to Y and Z affinity to N, should I then compare some other compound 2, of which relevance is known, affinity to N, and then compare the doses by weight these two compounds are used with, to figure if compound 1 has any relevant activity in N with doses that are commonly used? And one also should do the math about bioavailability and how much other receptors are reserving the compound? Like, if you had two compounds with same affinity to N, but other has much more receptor affinities with low Ki-value, then that one should be consumed in higher doses to get same effect in N?

Or are Ki-values in some relation to receptor saturation and pharmakokinetics? Because I once tried to understand Ki-values, but at least in english language, it was complete exercise in futility.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Ki values are a representation of affinity. The i stands for inhibitory because when measuring Ki were measuring how much of an inhibitor it takes to displace the agonist. Sometimes the K value can be measured directly and that would be Kd which is a dissociation constant. Lower K values mean that a lower concentration (the values are usually give in units of micro or nano molar) are able to occupy 50% of receptor sites or 50% enzyme saturation depending on the target protein being measured

Dissociation constant - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Neuroprotection]

This is interesting because I got very into intermittent fasting years ago and now I'm trying to quit coffee for the nth time, along with tapering Klonopin. I really hope I can get off and stay off both.

But, for me, caffeine significantly worsens my already existing anxiety disorder, but it does so much worse when I'm in a fasted state, especially first thing in the morning when I'd generally just have 2 shots of espresso followed by 1/2 a cup of coffee and not even get out of bed till it kicked in. At that point I would usually have gone a considerable amount of time without eating, I would say often from 12-14 hours, which is really only a very mild fast. But as the days wore on and I continued to not eat and consume more coffee and exercise, my anxiety would worsen. Finally, since I would usually only eat one really huge meal at night, once it got to night time I'd REALLY be agitated, and when I finally ate it would help me calm down, probably because there was finally something to buffer the caffeine. However, then I would usually experience a MUCH worse crash than if I had eaten earlier. That doesn't mean I didn't still always get bad caffeine crashes, cause I did, but not eating would make them worse. BUT...caffeine does make it easier to fast for longer because it suppresses hunger.

But I really agree that the negatives of caffeine are HIGHLY underrated, especially for people like me with anxiety. It wakes me up BY CAUSING STRESS, which is what more and more scientists have proven. It's not a good energy but an "oh shit, a tiger's going to eat me" cortisol burst. It has DRAMATICALLY worsened my anxiety and depression as well as my sleep quality, and that's just from drinking an average of 4-4.5 cups per day which isn't as much as some people. It makes me need MUCH larger doses of Klonopin both for anxiety and sleep, as well as more melatonin, causing me to have a harder time waking up. And as you mentioned, my attention is much more scattered.

So it's day 4 off caffeine and I'm using a 7-day detox kit with some herbs, and I'm pretty out of it still but at least I'm MUCH calmer than usual. I can take less Klonopin and less melatonin. I REALLY hope I can stick to this. At the very least, there's something I have called "Paraxanthine" which is new to the market but which is a metabolite of caffeine produced in the body when we drink caffeine. It has far fewer negative effects on anxiety and crash, so IF I eventually mess up it will be with that. In the past every time I experimented with it I had to mix it with caffeine because it wasn't strong enough on its own, but after a detox that should change. There's also Ginseng which isn't as bad as caffeine. Also, Dr. Andrew Huberman says that if you can wait 1 to 1.5 hours after waking up to drink caffeine that you won't get a crash due to your adenosine receptors having time to wake up or something like that, so if I do mess up in the future I'll try that.

I just hope not drinking caffeine won't mean I can never drink alcohol or use any drug that makes me tired, because I really can't imagine waking up from a hangover without some kind of stimulant, but, again, there are others, and it's caused me so many problems that if that means I have to use fewer other drugs then I honestly think it's worth it. So yeah, I'll see what happens, but the less caffeine I drink the better.

Good luck on your journey to quit caffeine. everyone is different and you know yourself better than anyone, but my General advice would be to stay away from caffeine permanently, especially when you have an anxiety disorder. it might also be a good idea to avoid any xanthine stimulants including theobromine, theophylline and paraxanthine. I know they are said to cause less anxiety, perhaps because they don’t cross the blood brain barrier as well as caffeine, but I’m pretty sure they’ve been linked to other side-effects, like headaches and insomnia and they can still cause anxiety. it might also be the case that using paraxanthine as a caffeine replacement May lead you to inadvertently consume larger doses in order to achieve similar CNS stimulation to caffeine.
Stopping caffeine should certainly help you get off the Clonopin. you need your adenosine for extra inhibitory support as your brain readjusts to any GABA deficit caused by long-term benzodiazepine use and withdrawal.
In terms of looking for a replacement stimulant, I would recommend you try B vitamin supplementation, especially B12 and B6 under the supervision/guidance of a doctor. also, daily doses of inositol and tyrosine might go a long way.
I wish you all the best.