Gabapentinoids Pregabalin

[Endopharm]

Good day all!

A few questions for ya about pregabolin.

After long use of 2-3mg per day of clonazepam(13 years), for treating GAD and PTSD, my Dr. (New Dr.) Took me off of them with a really fast taper.

It's 4 months later and I'm still having a really rough withdrawal with all sorts of symptoms and it's really fuckin up my life and my kids life's too.

Anyhow, instead she gave me a 20mg/day dose of escitalopram(which I hate and have told her) and pregabolin.

I havent used the pregabolin yet because my anxiety makes me very cautious about what I use and how I use it. Here is the dosing schedule...

1 capsule 3x per day for 3 days
2 capsules 2x per day for 3 days
3 capsules 2x per day then repeat schedule.

As of right now besides some cannabis, CBN, CBD and low dose red vein kratom, I use nothing else.

What should I expect from this dose of pregabolin?

I know it sounds silly but I'm terrified of new medications after trying soooo many SSRIand SNRIs. I always get sexual side effects, sleep issues, electric shocks, and this weird panic that feels like my insides are having a panic attack and not my brain(if that makes sense, I know there is a medical term for it but I forget what it is)?

Thank you for any insight

 

[Endopharm]

Shoot, the pregabolin is low dose, 25mg per capsule

 

[Conky]

Those are pretty low doses man I would ask her for the 150mg capsules and take them 2-3 times daily empty stomach

 

[JackARoe]

After long use of 2-3mg per day of clonazepam(13 years), for treating GAD and PTSD, my Dr. (New Dr.) Took me off of them with a really fast taper.

I hope you are doing well Endopharm. You at least sound ok. I believe the pregabalin will help, others with more experience will chime in.

What I wanted to say to you and to @Ballz_Trippington and a few others is if I ever win a lottery I am hiring the best lawyers there are to drag some of these "new docs" who don't feel they want you on benzos into court for recklessness and just bad medicine. The message being stop changing meds so fasts and anyone on benzos would need a long slow taper. Plain and simple. What is there to not understand? Long and slow taper. But if a person has been taking the medicine for years why not just keep them on? This nonsense that it is 2022 and some of these 'new docs" don't know about benzo withdrawal makes me want to drag them into court and explain what they know about medicine. And hopefully it breaks some of their banks for having to pay for a lawyer. Hell, a class action lawsuit.

It just really irritates me how ignorant some doctors are. I would like them to have to spend money and learn more about the medicine they are purported to be practicing. The whole notion that a person has to worry a new doctor and their meds is bullshit. Pisses me off to no end.

Sorry for ranting in your thread Endo. I do believe the pregabalin will help. I have no tolerance to any gabapentinoid so I would feel even 50-100 mgs of pregabalin and it would last all day. But then I understand the next day is a dud. It needs a few days in between. Like 3 days. So why the hell are doctors yanking people off meds onto other meds that may or may not help.

 

[cdin]

just be aware that pregabalin has it's own withdrawal syndrome that is quite adjacent to bzds/GABA wd. not exactly the same, but damn near. tbf, if i had made it off the benzos, the most i would ask for is gabapentin, and i would combine that w kava and occasional amanita (this is what i did coming off benzos) for the occasional actual day of relaxation. Those are the only agents i know that are somewhat relieving that don't have a major wd syndrome. some find gabapentin hard to get off, ive been on and off very large doses sometimes for years at a time and it and baclofen always responded well to a quick titration -> off. sorry your doc was not compassionate with your taper.

 

[Endopharm]

I feel your frustration in many ways.

I was an RNCP by trade for many years and helped many people with various illness/ailments and disease. I have alot of experience with supplementation, pharmaceuticals etc, in fact I used to advocate for others that needed meds but didn't know how to approach the situation with drs because of lack of knowledge and intimidation.


My family dr was absolutely a treat, great to work with and very knowledgeable. In fact we had great discussions and even ended up golfing alot together where wede share information and talk pharmokinetics/pharmodynamics etc often. Unfortunately he retired and being in a small area, there is only one dr to replace him and she is all over the map.

This has really damaged my quality of life and my whole family is feeling it. I went from working in engineering at a gold mine, spending all my time outside of that with my kids, golfing, swimming, fishing and camping. Now I'm fuckin lucky to leave my bedroom once or twice a week and have all these crazy WD symptoms...

Lack of sleep(maybe 5-8 hours a week), zero appetite then binging on food, almost zero exercise(losing all my muscle mass), puking at various times for no real reason, headaches, joint pain, unbelievable panic attacks that last 30-40 minutes and are of the devil, shakiness at times, memory lapses and on and on.

I feel ya, I too swore an oath to become an RNCP, and I would never abuse that not neglect a person's life.

This is debilitating and TBH, for the first time since I was a teenager, I've seriously contemplated street drugs and the only thing keeping me away from that is criminal activity and the possibility of laced drugs/fake pressed.

 

[Endopharm]

Thank you for your input! I've used magnesium bisglycinate/l theanine/kava kava and unfortunately with little results. Which is too bad because I've had great success with that combination in prior clients.

I should add benzoyl and my body act weird. They have never made me feel impaired not tired. I just feel normal with no panic attacks.

She doesn't believe that but I do have 15 years as a HD equipment operator as well and was cleared for driving/operating. She wanted to pull my license. She changed her tune thankfully when I showed her I've never had any accident of any sorts in 25+ of driving.

Also she seemed shocked that I was a blue light house to help the community with domestic disputes and opiate overdoses. I was also a volunteer firefighter. My point being I'm not out here chasing drugs, I just want to feel normal and have my life back

 

[cdin]

I feel your frustration in many ways.

I was an RNCP by trade for many years and helped many people with various illness/ailments and disease. I have alot of experience with supplementation, pharmaceuticals etc, in fact I used to advocate for others that needed meds but didn't know how to approach the situation with drs because of lack of knowledge and intimidation.


My family dr was absolutely a treat, great to work with and very knowledgeable. In fact we had great discussions and even ended up golfing alot together where wede share information and talk pharmokinetics/pharmodynamics etc often. Unfortunately he retired and being in a small area, there is only one dr to replace him and she is all over the map.

This has really damaged my quality of life and my whole family is feeling it. I went from working in engineering at a gold mine, spending all my time outside of that with my kids, golfing, swimming, fishing and camping. Now I'm fuckin lucky to leave my bedroom once or twice a week and have all these crazy WD symptoms...

Lack of sleep(maybe 5-8 hours a week), zero appetite then binging on food, almost zero exercise(losing all my muscle mass), puking at various times for no real reason, headaches, joint pain, unbelievable panic attacks that last 30-40 minutes and are of the devil, shakiness at times, memory lapses and on and on.

I feel ya, I too swore an oath to become an RNCP, and I would never abuse that not neglect a person's life.

This is debilitating and TBH, for the first time since I was a teenager, I've seriously contemplated street drugs and the only thing keeping me away from that is criminal activity and the possibility of laced drugs/fake pressed.

hey! you're in UK right?? they are doing flumazanil supported tapers. I'll bet the low dose /long infusion method would really help out your PAWS/reset your receptors more quickly. If I were in UK, i would be pressing my docs for a subQ flumazanil course. they do it with a pump, so you have to be in hospital for a couple of days, but the reports of relief are striking.

 

[cdin]

i cannot recommend the amanita/kava combo enough. kavain increases muscimol binding at GABA-A by 358%. there are decarbed tinctures available online. amanita was a savior for me in the benzo wds.

 

[Endopharm]

I'm in canada and soon the be in the US(I'm also terrified to go to a new job even though it's as a geneticist/formulator which is a dream job for me)

I'll look more into that kava/amrita combo(what did your dose/schedule look like)?

A few things to add. I've had concussions too and I broke my leg VERY badly in 2018. They gave me morphine and percocets and after a week I stopped. I don't tolerate opiates/options well other than low dose kratom(300mg 2x per day for two days, 3rd day is psilocybin 200mg with lions mane)

I go to another special Dr 2x per year since breaking my leg/knee and they also do scans to see how my brain is due to concussions. The good news there is we've seen a remarkable growth of neurons and function even when I was on clonazepam.

CBD/CBN is daily, 25-75mg daily of CBD and about 10mg daily of CBN

I'm just trying to figure out what works for me, and I hope yall realize I'm not out here pill chasing. I'm just doing whatever I can to feel normal/healthy again for myself and my kids

 

[cdin]

you could definitely up that CBD dose. IMO CBD doesnt 'really get effective/anti-inflammatory until 500mg+ I suggest ordering raw full spec extract from a hemp farm.

As far as dosing schedule -- on the days i dropped my dose i would basically take morning/noon/night amanita/kava. Sometimes two days -- amanita contains muscimol which is a gaba-a agonist. it's MUCH more forgiving that GABA PAMs though. If i run it 5 days in a row i get a very mild come off syndrome (little bit of elevated bp and muscular tensions) so because of that i tended to use it for 1/2 days at a time as a "break" in the suffering and then continue.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @Endopharm

Yea, your story is unfortunately, a common one these days. Anyone who has been on the forums for a little bit can name off a dozen people they know personally in a very similar situation; feeling like their life is upside down. The good stuff that I think you can be happy about and grateful for? You've made it a huge chunk of the way already. These months that you've made it through are probably some of the hardest days you'll ever face, but you're doing it. You're not giving up and you're not going crazy, which is an amazing achievement.

It will start to get better soon. You will get over a hump and start to notice things slowly, but surely improve. The improvements will motivate you and help discipline you in those moments where you might slide back. Then, after a few more months, the feeling of recovering your body and mind to something normal is honestly, a euphoric experience. Good work and keep it up!

You've gotten a lot of solid answers, but I'll throw my hat in the ring and see what happens. The dosage of Pregabalin (Lyrica) is pretty low, even at the highest dosage. I say this with special consideration for your Benzodiazepine tolerance. These drugs are not cross-tolerant in a way that is easy to explain. They share many qualities with one another. In short, the Benzodiazepine withdrawal is likely to seriously blunt the effects of the Pregabalin.

I have never used Gabapentinoids like Pregabalin to treat withdrawal from Benzodiazepines personally, but I've read of and spoken with people who have really gotten a lot of relief. I know that I relied heavily on Gabapentinoids when I really embarked on the long-term Opioid sobriety. In a similar fashion, Gabapeninoids share many of the same quality with Opioids, yet they don't fully overlap.

First, I think you should see how this maximum dose effects you, as we haven't heard that yet. People commonly take 600mg Pregabalin per day for various reasons, so you have some theoretical wiggle room. Pay attention to how you feel and then let us know. We can go from there!

 

[Endopharm]

Quick update. (Still haven't used pregabolin)

Anyhow, went to bed at 3am and finally had a decent sleep. I felt amazing as sleep has been few and for between while WD from clonazepam.

Today hit a little different. I was very hungry, able to keep food down which was amazing! I felt pretty damn good and more motivated then I have been in the past 4 months of so.

Still some anxiety but NOTHING compared to what I've grown used too.

So I went for a couple nice walks, then went to a local sports field and practiced some golf for the first time in about a month.

I did want to try pregabolin today but it just feels like I don't need it yet. Plus I'm going to hit some more golf balls and I don't want that to be my setting to try it.

I'll see how I feel later and determine if I take my first dose.

I should mention that a proper sleep felt soooo good. 3am -11:30am.

Keep in mind since quitting clonazepam, I often stay wide awake for 2-3 days at a time.

Thus far today I have minor anxiety(for me), but I don't have that feeling of this weird panicky feeling that feels like it's coming from your organs(sorry I don't remember the medical term)

Downside is my brain is still obviously very foggy

 

[cdin]

Quick update. (Still haven't used pregabolin)

Anyhow, went to bed at 3am and finally had a decent sleep. I felt amazing as sleep has been few and for between while WD from clonazepam.

Today hit a little different. I was very hungry, able to keep food down which was amazing! I felt pretty damn good and more motivated then I have been in the past 4 months of so.

Still some anxiety but NOTHING compared to what I've grown used too.

So I went for a couple nice walks, then went to a local sports field and practiced some golf for the first time in about a month.

I did want to try pregabolin today but it just feels like I don't need it yet. Plus I'm going to hit some more golf balls and I don't want that to be my setting to try it.

I'll see how I feel later and determine if I take my first dose.

I should mention that a proper sleep felt soooo good. 3am -11:30am.

Keep in mind since quitting clonazepam, I often stay wide awake for 2-3 days at a time.

Thus far today I have minor anxiety(for me), but I don't have that feeling of this weird panicky feeling that feels like it's coming from your organs(sorry I don't remember the medical term)

Downside is my brain is still obviously very foggy

i also got big "spurt" days where i would actually notice progress after months, almost like a stuck gear just grinding for forever, til finally a tooth breaks and it actually advances a bit. that was how the recovery was for me for sure.

 

[Endopharm]

Yeah, I've had a few decent days per month.

If a I can string a few days or a week together I'll consider that great progress

 

[Keif' Richards]

Quick update. (Still haven't used pregabolin)

Anyhow, went to bed at 3am and finally had a decent sleep. I felt amazing as sleep has been few and for between while WD from clonazepam.

Today hit a little different. I was very hungry, able to keep food down which was amazing! I felt pretty damn good and more motivated then I have been in the past 4 months of so.

Still some anxiety but NOTHING compared to what I've grown used too.

So I went for a couple nice walks, then went to a local sports field and practiced some golf for the first time in about a month.

I did want to try pregabolin today but it just feels like I don't need it yet. Plus I'm going to hit some more golf balls and I don't want that to be my setting to try it.

I'll see how I feel later and determine if I take my first dose.

I should mention that a proper sleep felt soooo good. 3am -11:30am.

Keep in mind since quitting clonazepam, I often stay wide awake for 2-3 days at a time.

Thus far today I have minor anxiety(for me), but I don't have that feeling of this weird panicky feeling that feels like it's coming from your organs(sorry I don't remember the medical term)

Downside is my brain is still obviously very foggy

If every day were as hard as the first day; physical stuff, emotions, consequences, disappointment; if none of that got better, nobody would ever commit to sobriety. I think getting through withdrawal is analogous to so many of our other potential goals in life. Maybe you want a better body, so you start working out. Maybe you learn a language, so you buy some books. Achieving these goals is part motivation, part inspiration and part discipline. You use all three alternatively as ballast to help you achieve your goals. The joy of achievement and improvement is what gives you the motivation to continue, this process allows you to consider the discipline that will allow you to draw on the success to get through the hard parts and you slowly realize you're getting better.

I remember vividly withdrawing from Methadone. The first 10 days or so are pretty fucking rough. But, when you taste that sweet nectar of 3-4 full hours of sleep on day 11, it's like fucking ambrosia. This gave me hope, which by day 11, was non-existent. I was too fucked to feel any emotion, just pain and anxiety. That beautiful feeling that I got from that first day of sleep gave me the motivation to continue climbing to the next part of the climb, I remember watching hours and hours of seinfeld on Netflix, not paying attention, not absorbing, just noise. I remember so well the day when I watched Kramer light his hair on fire with the cigar and I cracked a smile. The feeling of comedy, joy etc was so crazy, it was like I could feel the very chemicals being injected into my body, like drinking a glass of water after being in the desert for a couple of days.

Those are the moments that you treasure. Use them for your fuel to keep going. They are previews for what is possible in recovering your sanity.

 

[cdin]

If every day were as hard as the first day; physical stuff, emotions, consequences, disappointment; if none of that got better, nobody would ever commit to sobriety. I think getting through withdrawal is analogous to so many of our other potential goals in life. Maybe you want a better body, so you start working out. Maybe you learn a language, so you buy some books. Achieving these goals is part motivation, part inspiration and part discipline. You use all three alternatively as ballast to help you achieve your goals. The joy of achievement and improvement is what gives you the motivation to continue, this process allows you to consider the discipline that will allow you to draw on the success to get through the hard parts and you slowly realize you're getting better.

I remember vividly withdrawing from Methadone. The first 10 days or so are pretty fucking rough. But, when you taste that sweet nectar of 3-4 full hours of sleep on day 11, it's like fucking ambrosia. This gave me hope, which by day 11, was non-existent. I was too fucked to feel any emotion, just pain and anxiety. That beautiful feeling that I got from that first day of sleep gave me the motivation to continue climbing to the next part of the climb, I remember watching hours and hours of seinfeld on Netflix, not paying attention, not absorbing, just noise. I remember so well the day when I watched Kramer light his hair on fire with the cigar and I cracked a smile. The feeling of comedy, joy etc was so crazy, it was like I could feel the very chemicals being injected into my body, like drinking a glass of water after being in the desert for a couple of days.

Those are the moments that you treasure. Use them for your fuel to keep going. They are previews for what is possible in recovering your sanity.

the emotions coming back getting off opioids are amazing. feeling your soul wake back up.

 

[Conky]

I personally only find this drug useful for transient anxiety and withdrawal. I've been taking it daily for months now and it does nothing much. Even 10 grams. When I was a noob, 600mg gave great effects.

 

[Endopharm]

Thanks for the replies! I enjoy reading them!

Last night was great, I was relaxed and very little anxiety, but I never slept a wink.

Today has been good, but im super tired and unable to sleep so I grabbed a few beer to sip on later(I sleep good with a few beer but I will most likely have increased anxiety tomorrow)

I really wish there was a medication or substance to induce sleep that wasn't harmful to my situation.

Ah well

 

[cdin]

Thanks for the replies! I enjoy reading them!

Last night was great, I was relaxed and very little anxiety, but I never slept a wink.

Today has been good, but im super tired and unable to sleep so I grabbed a few beer to sip on later(I sleep good with a few beer but I will most likely have increased anxiety tomorrow)

I really wish there was a medication or substance to induce sleep that wasn't harmful to my situation.

Ah well

Oh man, kava and decarbed amanita work SO much better for that purpose ime