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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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chinup said:
from my understanding some asian countries avoided lockdowns by doing proper contact tracing from the off. it turns out that most people with covid don't pass it on to anyone else, but some people pass it on to huge numbers of people. so, by identifying who a person with covid got it from and then quarantining all the people that person had been in contact with, they avoided the need for widescale lockdowns. this requires compliance, and i'm not confident that the eligible people who are not vaccinated are likely to comply with such orders so you'd need to enforce it. if we can get transmission rates low enough for this approach to be feasible, i think its far preferable.

where that is not feasible, i'd guess you need to look at projected cases and hospital capacity, not just for acute covid cases, but for everything. it is not fair that people with other health conditions have their treatment delayed because governments allowed covid rates to get too high.

That all relates to a time before the vaccinations have been widely available in some places for as long as 6 months. What is relevant now is how long do we give "vulnerable" people time to vaccinate? I've never head an answer from any government. Anti-vax people are treated like criminals. This can't go on indefinitely... So, what is the end date?

there were talks over here at some point of getting some way of showing you're vaccinated as a condition for entering pubs, restaurants, etc, and i would fully support that. i'd have more respect for people's choice to not get vaccinated if the rest of us were able to choose not to be anywhere near them and requiring proof of vaccination for entry to places would be one way to enable us to have that choice.

I very much disagree.

If you are so vulnerable get a fucking vaccination.

We can't set the social standard to entirely accommodate vulnerable morons.

Back when there wasn't a vaccination, people got upset about comparisons between COVID and flu.

Well, now there is a vaccine. If you are vaccinated, it is similar to the flu. If you live in a country like Australia and you are vulnerable, get vaccinated. There is no excuse. Just get off your ass and sign up for your free vaccination.

We can't shut down the world temporarily to protect people who refuse protection.
 
That all relates to a time before the vaccinations have been widely available in some places for as long as 6 months.
yes but the same could be done if we get transmission rates sufficiently low, you asked about when a lockdown should end, in my opinion. and, in my opinion, if we got transmission rates low enough for it to be feasible, then its preferable to do that rather than this endless cycle of lockdowns.
What is relevant now is how long do we give "vulnerable" people time to vaccinate? I've never head an answer from any government. Anti-vax people are treated like criminals. This can't go on indefinitely... So, what is the end date?
they've had long enough. so open up to vaccinated individuals and allow the unvaccinated to enjoy the consequences of their actions. we've seen that an honesty-based policy will not work so just show vaccination documentation to go inside places. given that most places i pay by card and take my mobile and smart watch, so already get tracked, i'm not really arsed about another form of documentation being seen by places i go.

If you are so vulnerable get a fucking vaccination.
i've got my 1st dose and my second is booked in. but i still won't be 100% covered as vaccines aren't 100% effective. so i'd prefer that people who have actively chosen to be a potential vector weren't able to pose a risk to those of us who have done our bit.

We can't set the social standard to entirely accommodate vulnerable morons.
i agree. but i don't think not allowing them to enter locations such as restaurants is accommodating them, its accommodating those who got vaccinated.

i think were on the same page. fed up of having to reain restricted because some people refuse to do the responsible thing.
 
you both do know that there's some ppl who can't get the shots right?

and bird, this is where you and i veer off from one another - you want the government to force ppl to get the shots....that's fucked up...their are plenty of reasons not to get the shots....how many ppl are probably unnecessarily taking a risk with the shots who already have been exposed and already have anti-bodies? im sorry but if you had it already, you really shouldn't be getting the shots....there's a ton of ppl who unknowingly were asymptomatic....nobody's looking into that before getting the shots?

you have a hush hush on reporting of adverse reactions...only reason why the kid adverse reactions are popping up and making it to some news outlets, is because you can't deny a fuckin 15 yr old having a heart attack 2 days after a shot....adults are dealing with the same shit but that's just coincidence tho right? "ah they were old anyway and they would've died either way"

dude wtf

ya see, things like this are happening and are just causing more distrust
 
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you both do know that there's some ppl who can't get the shots right?

and bird, this is where you and i veer off from one another - you want the government to force ppl to get the shots....that's fucked up...their are plenty of reasons not to get the shots....how many ppl are probably unnecessarily taking a risk with the shots who already have been exposed and already have anti-bodies? im sorry but if you had it already, you really shouldn't be getting the shots....there's a ton of ppl who unknowingly were asymptomatic....nobody's looking into that before getting the shots?

you have a hush hush on reporting of adverse reactions...only reason why the kid adverse reactions are popping up and making it to some news outlets, is because you can't deny a fuckin 15 having a heart attack 2 days after a shot....adults are dealing with the same shit but that's just coincidence tho right? "ah they were old anyway and they would've died either way"

dude wtf

ya see, things like this are happening and are just causing more distrust

People are taking the vaccine that dont need to take it and are getting really sick and/or dying. There are no excuses for giving these drugs to kids. Theres no excuse for giving them to people of all ages who dont need them. These drugs should have always been given to those who are in the most vulnerable groups, which is why we locked down in the first place to protect the elderly and most vulnerable. All this was about protecting the vulnerable. Now its about protecting everybody when everybody doesnt need protecting. The only "protection" people are getting is a new form of governance masked as a solution to the problem they have caused. The story changes all the time. And it does because its a manufactured pandemic. Is there a virus? Yes, I think so. Is the virus as deadly as the political narrative has made out? No. What do people conflate with reality? The political narrative. Take all that away and you have something that has a very high survival rate. But we are now giving shots to kids? And we are injecting this stuff into people who dont need it because their immune system is more than capable of fighting off infection? Most people dont need this drug. Most never will. If there is anybody who needs it, or at least could benefit from it, it was always going to be the most vulnerable, which fortunately is a very small amount of the population. Thats because generally the health of entire populations is more than enough to stave off illness. We survive pandemics every year, the flu being one of them. We build up natural immunity. This is common basic knowledge.

They have wanted to do a test run for mRNA vaccines for a long time. Each and everytime over the years they couldnt do it citing serious risks of injury and death in the population. They did animal studies and the results were not good. So they never went to human trials. Like climate change, they have been pushing for decades but it simply wasnt the right time. Climate change especially, most people arent bought into the quackery. Their common sense is enough to fight off the idea that in 10 years we wont exist on this planet. Since the sixties/seventies the end of the world has been predicted and never came to light. Back to vaccines, this IS the human trial of mRNA vaccines and under the cover of a global pandemic narrative. Perfect ploy, perfect disguise. The narrative that 99% and over survived despite being brainwashed into believing the world was crashing down and the end was near.

Its a scandal and fundamentally its illegal and according to the Nuremberg Code, punishable by death. The last time medical experimentation anywhere remotely similiar to today was performed it was Hitler and Nazi Germany. The Nuremberg Code was setup to prevent the abuse of authority in such a capacity.

But here we are today KILLING innocent children well before they have lived their lives. Innocent adults too. Their life cut short at the hands of what is essentially a psychopathic agenda that wants you to believe killing innocent people is necessary to make progress. People brainwashed into detaching from their conscience and humanity perfectly tolerant of the murder of innocent people and the destruction of society, all so they can survive a virus they have already survived a long time ago. Nothing has changed. The fear porn has simply ramped up along with the intention to confuse people so much they are numb to what is going on.
 
if you're afraid of getting sick being near other ppl, stay home - it's on you, don't point the finger at the unvaccinated - don't point the finger at anybody but yourself

if you don't wanna catch any STDs, don't have sex....alright? same shit
 
if you're afraid of getting sick being near other ppl, stay home - it's on you, don't point the finger at the unvaccinated - don't point the finger at anybody but yourself

if you don't wanna catch any STDs, don't have sex....alright? same shit

But that it right there, isnt it.
That is life. Where you get humans you will get all that. We can survive most illnesses thrown our way that if we were isolated like a yet to be discovered tribe in the Amazon, would wipe us out. Thats because our bodies are amazing creations that REALLY do do most of the work by themselves. All we have to do is look after ourselves and the rest is history. We have built these defenses over thousands and thousands of years, and that is being modest I feel.

What you are referring to is the psy-op to turn society in on itself. Its the only way they could pull this off. We have to not get along for them to come in and then offer a "solution" which is really to play us off against one another and make things worse. The only real solution is to realize where this is all coming from and choose to stop attacking one another. All the things people say to each other, for and against, is within the container of this psy-op. But what happens when you throw that container away? You will find people will start to connect again, they will see that those in front of them are not their enemies and people will come together and stop fighting.

Its really the sociopath at school who told you that your class was making fun of you and secretly they dont like you. You run in and burst out in anger at them. They dont know what the hell is going on. They react with anger too because they dont know why you are angry with them.

All the while, little Tommy the sociopath, scheduled to serve his first juvenile prison sentence in T-minus 5 years, is chuckling to himself hiding behind the lockers watching you destroy perfectly nice healthy relationships.

The government have done this since time immemorial. Blacks, hispanics, gay, women, disabilities, drug users, poor etc. At one point, believe it or not, none of these things made any difference. The differences are political and now are firmly etched into the collective pscyhe along with generations of trauma. But you go out thinking your war is with those who call you the n-word or with those who look down on you because you didnt get the same opportunities as overs. All these people are doing is repeating and projecting their conditioning. They learned that from somewhere. And where did they learn it from? Their parents? Where did they learn it from? Sooner or later you find the source and it wasnt any one here reading this thread, that is 100% certain.
 
That is life. Where you get humans you will get all that. We can survive most illnesses thrown our way that if we were isolated like a yet to be discovered tribe in the Amazon, would wipe us out. Thats because our bodies are amazing creations that REALLY do do most of the work by themselves. All we have to do is look after ourselves and the rest is history. We have built these defenses over thousands and thousands of years, and that is being modest I feel.
This is a process that involved repeated plagues wiping out substantial portions of the human population. Bubonic plague ravaged Europe and Asian over and over again. Smallpox was a scourge upon the world. Leprosy, tuberculosis, Spanish flu, measles. The list goes on and on. People developed some natural immunity to these diseases after generations of people suffering and dying. Those people were ostracized from their societies too. Red marks painted on doors. Colonies of the sick which can only be described as concentration camps in todays definitions. Developing resistance to pathogens through widespread exposure isn't a switch that can simply be flicked on, it's a process that takes a very, very long time and even then isn't a magic bullet. People still die from the black plague today. So this begs the question, do you think it's okay to sacrifice a substantial portion of our population who will die in awful pain and discomfit when you could do something to prevent that, because you prefer the natural solution?
 
This isn't the plague.

They didn't have a free vaccine for the bubonic plague that people refused to take. If you don't want to take it, why should we be in lockdown?

chinup said:
i've got my 1st dose and my second is booked in. but i still won't be 100% covered as vaccines aren't 100% effective. so i'd prefer that people who have actively chosen to be a potential vector weren't able to pose a risk to those of us who have done our bit.

What risk?

There isn't much risk for most people without the vaccination.
 
This is a process that involved repeated plagues wiping out substantial portions of the human population. Bubonic plague ravaged Europe and Asian over and over again. Smallpox was a scourge upon the world. Leprosy, tuberculosis, Spanish flu, measles. The list goes on and on. People developed some natural immunity to these diseases after generations of people suffering and dying. Those people were ostracized from their societies too. Red marks painted on doors. Colonies of the sick which can only be described as concentration camps in todays definitions. Developing resistance to pathogens through widespread exposure isn't a switch that can simply be flicked on, it's a process that takes a very, very long time and even then isn't a magic bullet. People still die from the black plague today. So this begs the question, do you think it's okay to sacrifice a substantial portion of our population who will die in awful pain and discomfit when you could do something to prevent that, because you prefer the natural solution?
Well thats a non-question because the fact is, like you say, people die anyway of illness/disease. We cannot stop death no matter how much we try. What we are doing now isnt stopping death at all. Because like you say, people still die. People are still dying of disease right now and that is a fact of life.

Even with the best healthcare and the best health policies we cannot save everyone and certain things remain untreatable and/or a whole array of issues get in the way ie is the patient too far away from a hospital, in certain countries do they for example have insurance, do they want to go to hospital, what is their cultural beliefs on seeking help (many never think of seeing a doctor for ailments), what can the health system do for them, what medicine is available and IS IT available, what stage are they at in terms of their illness, what stage is the disease circulating around society and most importantly can it be stopped (we have never been able to stop the flu coming back every year and while we know lots about the bubonic plague it still crops up in places, how do you predict where it will crop up and better still, can you? You cant have an eye on every inch of land on the planet at all times).

And yes, the risk of living life is worth carrying on living. People get sick and die all the time but we dont stop others living their life. In regards to COVID-19, it is at worst a moderate-severe flu. The risk to the rest of the population is just the same as seasonal flu. Politics and their associated narrative would have you believe otherwise but that is a smokescreen. Moreover, it is a lie.

What do we have in its place? A far worse world for everybody to live than we had before all this happened and now it starts to become apparent things werent done properly, people messed up, the stats were off, certain medications worked when they said they didnt, people were killed because of the lockdown measures and not the virus and those that were not killed/killed themselves lost so many things in their life, mental illness at an all-time high, suicide through the roof, the economy tanking while the rich got richer and obviously, the poor got poorer, educations ruined and childhoods traumatized, people at each others throats and more divides in society than ever before (despite the deliberate manipulation to push you into thinking we are in this together, when we clearly are not).

And for what? For the bubonic plague? For a killer disease? Hardly. We all know that. Some are slowly starting to see it after doing really well and persevering and doing as they are told while others knew a long time ago.

Things have changed forever. And that has NOTHING to do with health but everything to do with the gradual shift towards more and more control, power and influence into the hands who are responsible for this, while of course we get less but then continue going for the juglar with one another believing doing so makes progress, while it doesnt and the show moves on.

If this was to do with health then it would be business as usual. All you need is go back to pre-2020 to see what that was like. And of course during this period and any other we had disease, illness, death. We dealt with this proprionately and everybody went on with their life. There wasnt a topic on a popular drugs forum with over 4,000 replies about the matter and thats because this problem didnt exist then. And it didnt exist because unfortunately, it hadnt been manufactured yet.
 
My great grandparents from Italy, who took a boat to NYC, in 1897, did they worry about getting sick or did they live their lives? they lived through the Spanish Flu, smallpox, measles, mumps, polio, wooping cough, etc.

seriously

life's been a bitch for a long time now...but eventually you gotta keep on pushing and stop worrying about everything being able to kill you... some ppl and family lines are a lot more resilient than others....so you have an option...shot or no shot

ive been exposed to TB about 7 or 8 times by shooting a chest xray on a patient who had it prior to diagnosis....ive had to gown up plenty of times...i don't worry about it because i have confidence in my own immune system....all i know, is that any time i've had a vaccine, from about 10 years old on, something fucked up would happen afterwards to my immune system which was working fine before the shot - and that's enough for me to call it a day

i've had the most uncomfortable heartburn from antibiotics, and im trying to figure what the hell is wrong with me - it was so bad that i just didn't even wanna live my life anymore like that - fuck it i wanted to exit early...somebody finally suggests i try out some probiotics....so i do, and guess what - it cleared up - so im not down on the heavy duty antibiotics that i had to take for appendicitis, but im down on the doctors who just wanted to prescribe me more meds, like proton pump inhibitors and whatnot, to clear up some GERD, when really all i needed was to replace the healthy bacteria that was wiped out by some heavy duty antibiotics

that's the kinda shit im talking about
 
@chinup

I thought about what you're saying this morning after posting. There's something I can't quite wrap my head around.

If people are vaccinated, the risk is extremely low right?

Is COVID more dangerous for vaccinated people than the flu is for those not vaccinate against the flu? If not, shouldn't restaurants require proof of flu vaccination?

The whole argument to begin with was we need to protect vulnerable people.

Now you're saying we should disallow people to go to restaurants in order to protect vaccinated individuals? Does that apply to little kids too?

It should be up to restaurant owners to decide the standards of entry, shouldn't it? There are businesses and customers that don't think like you. Why can't they just live their lives?

I'm vaccinated but my partner isn't (she's not eligible yet) and neither is my daughter because she's two years old and there's no way in living fuck I'm going to give her any of these vaccinations for many years.

You said vulnerable people have had enough time to be vaccinated. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of it. The virus isn't even particularly dangerous for non-vulnerable people... let alone fully vaccinated non-vulnerable people.

If those who are super vulnerable and fully vaccinated are concerned about being infected with COVID, they should stay home. Why should the entire world bend over backwards for a small minority of people?

There are super vulnerable people during flu season, but we don't do this with the flu vaccine. My father almost died from the flu a couple of years ago. He went grey. He was in the hospital... According to your logic, people who aren't flu vaccinated shouldn't be able to go into restaurants?

I don't understand where you're coming from.
 
Lamestream media's been working on wrangling its followers in, based on ignorance / fear / lies / paranoia, especially since the "patriot act" was passed

Its clear why we're devided into us and them tribleism, all over again, and again

Blah
 
vaccinated people make me laugh my ass off. Ill be sure not to wear a mask not to get the vaccine and make you live in fear muahahaa.
I can understand your anger and it does feel like you should have somebody to take this out on.

Thing is, by saying what you have just said, you have bought into the division of society. And by seeking to attack the "others" you are playing into the hands of those who are responsible for the whole thing. You are doing their work for them. Not just that but by acknowledging the existence of "others" as an excluded group, you create the mirror image of that in yourself which then is reflected out into life which makes you more prone to remaining isolated and disconnected and disintegrated from society.

The only way out of this is to realize the division is illusory. When that happens, we are together and when we are together we powerful. When we are together, that is when real change happens. When we are together and stand by unifying beliefs, it is very hard to ignore us and very hard to fight us.

The kids in the sand pit that dont play fair dont get very far. Sure, they may appear to snatch a few moments of pleasure when they dominate others and get the reaction they want when the other kids get upset. The kids that can play together win in the end though because their day is based on mutual benefit and you get more sh*t done and succeed more when you work towards making sure everyone wins.

I always remind myself it might be easier to get that easy victory over someone else but the longterm reward is pitiful. All you have is a guilty conscience, bitterness, anger and a whole load of repressed issues that will gradually consume you and turn you into a shadow of yourself. You cant say you are happy secure and at peace in life when your life consists of looking for toxic situations to be consumed by and to encourage all that is toxic in ourselves and society.

Another thing to consider - why would you even let someone or something change you so much? So many people have changed over the last year or so. They allowed themselves to be changed. Why? What were they seeking? What do you think they were promised? Why were they willing to sacrifice their integrity, peace of mind and connection with others? When you succomb to the divison, YOU allow that change to happen to you. You become the very thing you swore to never become.

Its a fine line. We can go from love to hate so fast. From order to chaos. Normality to insanity. A lot of the process involves how suspectible people are to being compromised. Applied behavioural psychology has reams upon reams of research on this subject. You dont need to be an "expert" to be aware of it.

Just listen to yourself. Connect with yourself. Love yourself. Give yourself some space. Think for yourself. Trust your instrinsic wisdom that has been gifted to you through tens of thousands of years of evolution. Align yourself with a higher state of being.

Deep down we all know how we treat each other and what we do to each other. Moreover, what we do to ourselves. Deep within us, we know the truth and we know what works. Somewhere along the road, that all got garbled, maybe, for some.

Life is about working all this sh*t out. It never stopped nor did the fundamental fabric of our existence together on this rock change. A virus didnt change that. The responsibility of ourselves to ourselves and each other still exists. Last time I checked, we have a planet to live on together and a life to live on that planet together. Its not like we all have our own planet to live on. Something has to give.
 
They still make us wear masks on buses here and we dont even have fucking covid 19. Wake up people the govnermemt is fucking told us mass lies to enslave us. If you wear a mask you are living in fear and lies. Mask ain't gonna do shit if u want real protection wear a fuckkng hazmat suit that is rated for biological weapons
 
TripSitterNZ said:
I only believe in the pzifer and the russian vaccine. I only trust Vladimir putin aswell as a world leader.

So you do believe in vaccines then.

vaccinated people make me laugh my ass off. Ill be sure not to wear a mask

But, hold on. You don't believe in vaccines?

TripSitterNZ said:
This virus is smarter than humans its ancient and then given modern upgrades by humans. This is the greatest human battle ever faced by many generations

TripSitterNZ said:
i just want this stupid virus fucking wiped out.

TripSitterNZ said:
If you wear a mask you are living in fear and lies. Mask ain't gonna do shit if u want real protection wear a fuckkng hazmat suit that is rated for biological weapons

So, the virus is the greatest human battle since WW2 - and you want it wiped out - but we shouldn't wear a mask or be vaccinated?

TripSitterNZ said:
you can only trust yourself in this world.

Perhaps that too is optimistic in your case? ;)
 
We just got hit with a citywide lockdown for 14 days because the Delta variant seems to have got loose in the city at multiple locations.

There are only 29 known cases but often nothing to connect them so it seems there are multiple infection progressions in play.

They’ve calmed down a bit since the first lockdown but this Delta variant still has them panicked.
 
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