Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

[Jabberwocky]

The whole argument to begin with was we need to protect vulnerable people.

true. so, i don't agree with limiting the lives of people who are genuinely unable to be vaccinated. if you are vulnerable but able to be vaccinated, and haven't been, that's on you.

every single time a contagious person goes into a poorly ventilated location, they pose a risk to every other person in that location, vaccinated or not, though obviously the vaccinated are at far lower risk than the unvaccinated. the majority of people testing positive now, and thus the majority of contagious people, are unvaccinated (see, e.g. https://apnews.com/article/coronavi...mAHlizWmyvsmfisjLHZPJpy7iQ2he9vhFwY4TMhQTtxMg). what i disagree with is those people's rights to put everyone else they come into contact with at risk. if you make a decision that puts other people in danger i think its perfectly acceptable for society as a collective to reduce the danger you pose.

It should be up to restaurant owners to decide the standards of entry, shouldn't it? There are businesses and customers that don't think like you. Why can't they just live their lives?

if other businesses allow unvaccinated/unmasked individuals they potentially serve as hubs for contagion. their decision doesn't impact only them, it impacts potentially everyone worldwide. if a superspreader (usually most people infected infect no one, but some people infect 10s of people) enters that location, and infects 50% of the people there, a minority of those people wlll go onto be superspreaders elsewhere, presumably in other businesses that don't give a shit. if these businesses are allowed to operate in this way they are the ones putting the lives of everyone in that locale in danger- honestly i don't fancy ending up in a car crash or having a heart attack somewhere where vaccination rates are low these businesses operate cos they are helping keep transmission rates high and nobody needs exhausted doctors and over stretched medical facilities in a medical emergency.

every single time a virus replicates, there is the (albeit extremely low for sars-cov2) probability of mutation into something that evades vaccines better, is more transissibile, etc. so we need to prevent every replication possble, which means taking all reaosnable means to prevent transmission to new hosts.

its not an individual choice when it endangers people around you. we might as well argue about drunk driving as far as i'm concerned.

relevant, possibly the only good thing an investment bank has ever done: https://thehill.com/business-a-lobb...IdFz9JnspcqJi8AncaVA6-28NMdOyeIXiQdRV8YvNZB5s

 

[birdup.snaildown]

who are genuinely unable to be vaccinated

Who are unable to be vaccinated in Australia or the US that are likely to actually get really sick or die? What percentage of the population is this? If it's something like 0.001% of the population, 99.999% of the population shouldn't have to present vaccination certificates every time they go to get Chinese food.

what i disagree with is those people's rights to put everyone else they come into contact with at risk.

Then, presumably, you want also want flu vaccination certificates?

we need to prevent every replication possble

At what cost?
At any cost?

How many businesses have to go out of business?
How many people should have mental breakdowns?
How long are we supposed to do this: indefinitely?

When I said the government should forcibly vaccinate people, that's not what I meant to say. I mean the people who want vaccinations should have a time limit to get fully vaccinated before we go back to normal.

This virus isn't going away. It's impossible to contain without serious damage to society. On a personal level, I cannot keep doing this.

We need to stop the lockdowns.

 

[finitelifeform]

They still make us wear masks on buses here and we dont even have fucking covid 19. Wake up people the govnermemt is fucking told us mass lies to enslave us. If you wear a mask you are living in fear and lies. Mask ain't gonna do shit if u want real protection wear a fuckkng hazmat suit that is rated for biological weapons

The point right now isnt what the government have said or done, its how its impacted the people who have been subject to this. If you imagine for a second how scared some people must be. Then think about all the changes in their lives that has happened. The waking up to constant bombardment about impending doom and death and neverending suffering. Maybe some people truly dont know what to do. They trust MSM, they trust their government (probably a little too much), they want to be good citizens and when they are told they can do something to make a difference, they feel compelled to make that difference. When we talk about fear this is EXACTLY what we are dealing with and so we are not talking about an experience that most people fully understand. We have parts of our makeup that involves more primitive parts of us, such as certain areas of the brain that we know are far older and far less human than our more evolved areas, such as the prefrontal cortex itself considered in neuroscience to be the part that gives us our executive function. When people are triggered to react, literally to react (itself a typically more irrational/impulsive and therefore you could say primitive behaviour) they fall into operating from these areas, the more primitive part of themselves. This is mostly what is happening. Tripping the circuit in how people operate and then rerouting, or for a better word, conditioning, in a behavioural sense, their behavioural to illicit patterns of behaviour that keep them almost like they are in a negative thought loop like in a psychedelic state. They are not themselves, basically put. Not fully anyway.

Most importantly, they have a reason, in their mind to do this because hey, theres a global pandemic going on that whether manufactured to the greatest extent or not, they dont have any idea and because they have been conditioned this way, couldnt care for constrasting information that could get them out of what is a state of mind that has essentially allowed for everything to happen around you.

These people didnt want or ask for this. These people would have been seemingly normal folk you met on a hike or on the beach. People you become friends with at a bar. All that has happened is they have changed and they have changed because for the last year they have been under threat from a deadly disease ravaging the planet and have chosen to sacrifice everything to prevent this disease from wiping us all out. They think they are saving us and that includes you, me, everybody. They think they are performing the ultimate act. And in many cases they are when you think about it, at least to them and the world they currently live in. A world that we ALL live in right now. Whose perspective is right and whose is wrong? How can you tell? How do you demonstrate your perspective when the setting is deliberately made to be politically polarizing? You can see then how hard it is for those people, people like me and you, to want to remove themselves from this protective bubble they are living in. Even if that protective bubble is simply helping to cover their eyes to the reality of what really is happening beyond the main narrative. Maybe people would rather be asleep? Can you blame them? Its been f*cking awful for everybody. The amount of times I personally thought of suicide. The amount of times I envisioned nothing ever being the same again and what that meant to my life and the suffering that caused me. And thats just me. I dont live in a world where its just me. If I lend my ears and my eyes and my heart to the billions of people around the world and if you listen, just listen quietly, you will hear the voice of a person who wants you to listen so they can tell you what they have gone through.

Will you listen? Or will you attack them just as they have been attacked for well over a year? If not by you but by all angles of this entire thing.

We need boots on the ground not for war but for coming home to our fellow man, our neighbours, our communities, the people who make this planet home.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I can understand your anger and it does feel like you should have somebody to take this out on.

Thing is, by saying what you have just said, you have bought into the division of society. And by seeking to attack the "others" you are playing into the hands of those who are responsible for the whole thing. You are doing their work for them. Not just that but by acknowledging the existence of "others" as an excluded group, you create the mirror image of that in yourself which then is reflected out into life which makes you more prone to remaining isolated and disconnected and disintegrated from society.

The only way out of this is to realize the division is illusory. When that happens, we are together and when we are together we powerful. When we are together, that is when real change happens. When we are together and stand by unifying beliefs, it is very hard to ignore us and very hard to fight us.

The kids in the sand pit that dont play fair dont get very far. Sure, they may appear to snatch a few moments of pleasure when they dominate others and get the reaction they want when the other kids get upset. The kids that can play together win in the end though because their day is based on mutual benefit and you get more sh*t done and succeed more when you work towards making sure everyone wins.

I always remind myself it might be easier to get that easy victory over someone else but the longterm reward is pitiful. All you have is a guilty conscience, bitterness, anger and a whole load of repressed issues that will gradually consume you and turn you into a shadow of yourself. You cant say you are happy secure and at peace in life when your life consists of looking for toxic situations to be consumed by and to encourage all that is toxic in ourselves and society.

Another thing to consider - why would you even let someone or something change you so much? So many people have changed over the last year or so. They allowed themselves to be changed. Why? What were they seeking? What do you think they were promised? Why were they willing to sacrifice their integrity, peace of mind and connection with others? When you succomb to the divison, YOU allow that change to happen to you. You become the very thing you swore to never become.

Its a fine line. We can go from love to hate so fast. From order to chaos. Normality to insanity. A lot of the process involves how suspectible people are to being compromised. Applied behavioural psychology has reams upon reams of research on this subject. You dont need to be an "expert" to be aware of it.

Just listen to yourself. Connect with yourself. Love yourself. Give yourself some space. Think for yourself. Trust your instrinsic wisdom that has been gifted to you through tens of thousands of years of evolution. Align yourself with a higher state of being.

Deep down we all know how we treat each other and what we do to each other. Moreover, what we do to ourselves. Deep within us, we know the truth and we know what works. Somewhere along the road, that all got garbled, maybe, for some.

Life is about working all this sh*t out. It never stopped nor did the fundamental fabric of our existence together on this rock change. A virus didnt change that. The responsibility of ourselves to ourselves and each other still exists. Last time I checked, we have a planet to live on together and a life to live on that planet together. Its not like we all have our own planet to live on. Something has to give.

This is, hands down, one of the truest things I have ever read. Lot of thought and wisdom went into this. It sure resonated with me.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

The point right now isnt what the government have said or done, its how its impacted the people who have been subject to this. If you imagine for a second how scared some people must be. Then think about all the changes in their lives that has happened. The waking up to constant bombardment about impending doom and death and neverending suffering. Maybe some people truly dont know what to do. They trust MSM, they trust their government (probably a little too much), they want to be good citizens and when they are told they can do something to make a difference, they feel compelled to make that difference. When we talk about fear this is EXACTLY what we are dealing with and so we are not talking about an experience that most people fully understand. We have parts of our makeup that involves more primitive parts of us, such as certain areas of the brain that we know are far older and far less human than our more evolved areas, such as the prefrontal cortex itself considered in neuroscience to be the part that gives us our executive function. When people are triggered to react, literally to react (itself a typically more irrational/impulsive and therefore you could say primitive behaviour) they fall into operating from these areas, the more primitive part of themselves. This is mostly what is happening. Tripping the circuit in how people operate and then rerouting, or for a better word, conditioning, in a behavioural sense, their behavioural to illicit patterns of behaviour that keep them almost like they are in a negative thought loop like in a psychedelic state. They are not themselves, basically put. Not fully anyway.

Most importantly, they have a reason, in their mind to do this because hey, theres a global pandemic going on that whether manufactured to the greatest extent or not, they dont have any idea and because they have been conditioned this way, couldnt care for constrasting information that could get them out of what is a state of mind that has essentially allowed for everything to happen around you.

These people didnt want or ask for this. These people would have been seemingly normal folk you met on a hike or on the beach. People you become friends with at a bar. All that has happened is they have changed and they have changed because for the last year they have been under threat from a deadly disease ravaging the planet and have chosen to sacrifice everything to prevent this disease from wiping us all out. They think they are saving us and that includes you, me, everybody. They think they are performing the ultimate act. And in many cases they are when you think about it, at least to them and the world they currently live in. A world that we ALL live in right now. Whose perspective is right and whose is wrong? How can you tell? How do you demonstrate your perspective when the setting is deliberately made to be politically polarizing? You can see then how hard it is for those people, people like me and you, to want to remove themselves from this protective bubble they are living in. Even if that protective bubble is simply helping to cover their eyes to the reality of what really is happening beyond the main narrative. Maybe people would rather be asleep? Can you blame them? Its been f*cking awful for everybody. The amount of times I personally thought of suicide. The amount of times I envisioned nothing ever being the same again and what that meant to my life and the suffering that caused me. And thats just me. I dont live in a world where its just me. If I lend my ears and my eyes and my heart to the billions of people around the world and if you listen, just listen quietly, you will hear the voice of a person who wants you to listen so they can tell you what they have gone through.

Will you listen? Or will you attack them just as they have been attacked for well over a year? If not by you but by all angles of this entire thing.

We need boots on the ground not for war but for coming home to our fellow man, our neighbours, our communities, the people who make this planet home.

Ditto on this one.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Who are unable to be vaccinated in Australia or the US that are likely to actually get really sick or die? What percentage of the population is this? If it's something like 0.001% of the population, 99.999% of the population shouldn't have to present vaccination certificates every time they go to get Chinese food.

in the article i posted above it was mentioned that in some places in the states only 30% of eligible adults are vaccinated. i am saying those 30% should not have their freedom limited by the 70% who are choosing not to be vaccinated.

Then, presumably, you want also want flu vaccination certificates?

if we get a blanket flu vaccine that works for all strains then yes, i'd be happy with that.

At what cost?
At any cost?

at the cost of people who choose not to be vaccinated's freedom to enter any poorly ventilated premises they choose.

This virus isn't going away. It's impossible to contain without serious damage to society. On a personal level, I cannot keep doing this.

We need to stop the lockdowns.

yes we do- i can't keep doing it either. only way i see of doing it in a safe way is by opening up for vaccinated people and treating antivaxxers like drunk drivers- public health liabilities.

in fact worse than drunk drivers. where i live right now, covid is rampant again. because unvaccinated people came back from india via amber countries so they didn't have to pay for quarantine. then didn't self isolate at home. the consequences of their actions are now wrecking havoc on society. i hold these people to be murderers, and unlike drunk drivers who only impact the people on the road at the time, their actions are being felt across the UK and will be for a long time.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

there was 17 new positive cases in the last 24 hours in my county of 271,000+

i think you guys should stop buying into the mutant hype and just live your lives....stop trying to blame others for spreading disease

First Autopsy of COVID Vaccinated Patient Finds Every Organ of Body Infested with Spike Proteins

The first-ever postmortem study of a patient vaccinated against COVID-19 has revealed that viral RNA was found in every organ of the patient’s body, meaning that the vaccine is either ineffective or the coronavirus actually spreads faster in vaccinated individuals. The scientific report out of...

www.eutimes.net

read that ^

 

[Fire&Water]

^ ^ ^ ^
Af'ingMen

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

chinup takes the far left approach to deal with non-vaxxers....round them up and charge them with crimes against humanity for spreading disease


are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party? ☭

 

[birdup.snaildown]

only way i see of doing it in a safe way is by opening up for vaccinated people and treating antivaxxers like drunk drivers- public health liabilities.

You know that's never going to happen outside of dictatorships?

in the article i posted above it was mentioned that in some places in the states only 30% of eligible adults are vaccinated.

You said people who can't be vaccinated. Why can't they? What is stopping people from being vaccinated. You said yourself vulnerable people have had enough time to be vaccinated.

The virus isn't dangerous for people under 40. It's hardly even dangerous for people under 50. So what I'm saying is we vaccinate everyone over a certain age then go back to normal.

Show me the data that suggests the majority of vaccinated people are at serious risk. If it just a small minority, then why don't we do this with all vaccines? People with full blown AIDS are vulnerable to all viruses including the common cold.

in fact worse than drunk drivers. where i live right now, covid is rampant again. because unvaccinated people came back from india via amber countries so they didn't have to pay for quarantine. then didn't self isolate at home. the consequences of their actions are now wrecking havoc on society. i hold these people to be murderers, and unlike drunk drivers who only impact the people on the road at the time, their actions are being felt across the UK and will be for a long time.

People who don't want to vaccinate their children are worse than drunk drivers?

You honestly sound crazier at this point than the anti-vaxxers.

if we get a blanket flu vaccine that works for all strains then yes, i'd be happy with that.

You should move to the Philippines.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

@Mr. Krinkle

The conclusion from the article you posted is nonsense.

The 86 year old man in the study only had one jab. He wasn't fully vaccinated. Beyond that, there is no vaccine that's 100% effective.

Very few people who are fully vaccinated end up in the hospital. Of those, very few die.

It's unfortunate this man died, but that doesn't prove "the vaccine is either ineffective or the coronavirus actually spreads faster in vaccinated individuals."

Any decent study worth it's salt will take a large population sample and scrutinize the results to account for anomalies. You can't take one autopsy and draw broad conclusions about the efficacy of vaccines... What about all the studies that show otherwise?

You are posting hype/spam again.

@TripSitterNZ and @finitelifeform (and others) keep going on about fear.

You are spreading fear and panic via selective misinformation.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Nah I don't know how true anything is .... It's just an article

 

[Jabberwocky]

are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party? ☭

nope i hate the far left. two generations of my family were murdered (or attempted to be, otherwise obviously i wouldn't exist) by communists.

i'm just fucking done with lockdown and the only realistic route out that doesn't involve an excess of people dying at this point is having different rules for vaccinated vs unvaccinated, given data heavily support the conclusion that vaccines reduce transmissibility.

You said people who can't be vaccinated. Why can't they? What is stopping people from being vaccinated. You said yourself vulnerable people have had enough time to be vaccinated.

there are people with genuine allergies to ingredients and others with suppressed immune systems cannot be vaccinated. these people i separate conceptually from the idiots who as of yet have not been vaccinated without good reason.

People who don't want to vaccinate their children are worse than drunk drivers?

no, as i clarified in my previous post. people who did not get the covid vaccine when eligible, went on to brazenly exploit loopholes in the rules, and then outright break them, and kick off the third wave we are starting to see in the UK are worse than drunk drivers.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

So - again - what percentage of the population can't be vaccinated?

no, as i clarified in my previous post. (1) people who did not get the covid vaccine when eligible, (2) went on to brazenly exploit loopholes in the rules, and then outright break them, and kick off the third wave we are starting to see in the UK are worse than drunk drivers.

How drunk are we talking here?

1. Not getting a vaccine isn't a sin.
2. Do you break the rules when you take illegal drugs?

the idiots who as of yet have not been vaccinated without good reason.

I don't think it promotes healthy discussion to refer to a large number of posters here as idiots. They're not idiots just because they don't want to get injected with drugs that were rushed to market.

the only realistic route out that doesn't involve an excess of people dying at this point is having different rules for vaccinated vs unvaccinated

Like I said, that's not going to happen to the extent that people need to show papers to get into restaurants. If you start treating unvaccinated people as second class citizens, there will be serious consequences.

The only realistic solution is for a certain percentage of the population to be vaccinated and then we open back up.

How many people have died from allergic reactions to these vaccines? What immunological conditions disallow vaccination? You're talking about a very, very small percent of the population. They should isolate.

Why not just leave it up to dealer's choice? Restaurants can be vaccinated only if they want to or they can be open to everyone.

 

[aemetha]

Like I said, that's not going to happen to the extent that people need to show papers to get into restaurants. If you start treating unvaccinated people as second class citizens, there will be serious consequences.

Will there? There's already many places where measles etc vaccinations (or proof that there is a legitimate reason why a person cannot be vaccinated) are a requirement for children to attend public schooling. There really hasn't been a whole lot of furor over that, and I would argue that's a far greater inconvenience than being unable to go to restaurants.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

@aemetha

1. How is it a "far greater" inconvenience to produce a piece of paperwork once per child than it is to produce paperwork at every venue you visit?

2. The measles vaccinations at child care make sense because that is an environment full of people who are vulnerable. If you asked me if they should have mandatory vaccinations for people entering aged care facilities, I'd say yes.

3. How many times a year are we going to have to get a COVID jab? You only need to get the measles jab once (or is it twice?) in a lifetime... and you only have to produce paperwork once or twice unless you happen to move schools a lot.

 

[AutoTripper]

@Mr. Krinkle hope all is good brother. I still don’t know which country you are in, but I hope there’s no travel restrictions cos I suspect you will most likely need to jump on a plane, and bring Champagne!

Haha what a cool slogan. Jump on a plane and bring champagne.

We need to celebrate one little positive thing that’s occurred so unexpectedly that will bring joy to many hearts let me tell you- Hancock is GONE!

Hip hip….

 

[AutoTripper]

 

[AutoTripper]

I’m not trying one bit myself to fearmonger to be clear. I saw a query above about death stats, and simply shared. No objective behind it.

Seriously, I pray for everyone who has been jabbed and pray that I’m wrong. I don’t mean religiously hands crossed verbally, I’m not religious….but simply from my heart.

 

[aemetha]

How is it a "far greater" inconvenience to produce a piece of paperwork once per child than it is to produce paperwork at every venue you visit?

I meant being unable to send children to school is much more inconvenient than not being able to go to restaurants.