Men's feelings about sex workers

[JessFR]

I was robbed by girls a few times in Kings Cross strip clubs years ago. I didn’t really want to have sex, I just needed help to score and have somewhere to shoot up. In those days the establishment sold coke under the table.

Once or twice the girls took my money and disappeared. When I complained to the management they just told me to fuck off, that the girls were independent contractors so no responsibility take, and I was mistaken if I thought drugs were sold on the premises.

This happened like on the 10 th visit where the first 9 had gone smoothly and got me what I wanted. In that part of the industry there was no sense of cultivating repeat business from good customers. I’m sure the girl gave the manager and the bouncers a cut of what she took from me and they all laughed about it at staff drinks after closing time.

Well, obviously it's gonna depend on the circumstances. I was thinking purely from the standpoint of street prostitution since that's what I did.

It's true if you act stupid and give people an easy way to rob you without conflict, they probably will.

If I had an easy no risk way to rob the guys that solicited me, I woulda done it without a second thought.

What I'm saying is in a one on one situation. If they have any sense they're not gonna try and rob you. It's just not smart.

But if you give anyone money and let them leave. You're prolly gonna get robbed yeah.

One time, this guy who saw me somewhat regularly. I asked him (as usual) for the money up front. And he sort of gave me this kinda annoyed attitude that I'd still insist on the money upfront like I didn't trust him.

Thing is... I didn't trust him. Say he has no money on him, fuck am I supposed to do then? Of course you gotta pay upfront dumbass.

But I digress.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Well that's the big problem.

I think like a lot of people, I have no problem in principle if a woman wants to make money selling sex completely of her own free will. I don't think especially negatively of the guys that pay for it either (and pretty much the same with male prostitutes). I can't say I have a lot of respect for the idea of paying for sex, but I can't see an inherent moral problem so long as everyone's consenting.

But is consent under duress consent? I say no, it is not. A choice made under duress isn't a free choice and can't be considered free consent.

And a lot of prostitutes I think... Aren't making truly free choices.

It's a tricky issue. Cause obviously prostitution itself shouldn't be illegal. And it doesn't seem especially helpful to make the buyer side of it illegal either.

At the same time. I can't deny that I feel an intense dislike of guys seeing prostitutes.

Yeah, that's the problem - what and when is 'consent' consent? During duress? Certainly not.
I have a friend who likes tricks - he hates going to bars, playing the social games of pro-creation and so forth.
He meets a norwegian girl who says she'd rather fuck the guys she wants and gets paid than stand in a café making espressos.

And I agree, I'd bet 99%+ of the working girls aren't doing it because it's a career-path they've choosen.

At the same time, how do you feel about girls going to men for sex?
Same intense dislike?

 

[JessFR]

Yeah, that's the problem - what and when is 'consent' consent? During duress? Certainly not.
I have a friend who likes tricks - he hates going to bars, playing the social games of pro-creation and so forth.
He meets a norwegian girl who says she'd rather fuck the guys she wants and gets paid than stand in a café making espressos.

And I agree, I'd bet 99%+ of the working girls aren't doing it because it's a career-path they've choosen.

At the same time, how do you feel about girls going to men for sex?
Same intense dislike?

What do you mean?

I don't have any problem with men or women hitting up men or women for sex provided it's all with consent, isn't abusive,, etc.

The problem once you introduce money into it is you have a power imbalance. You have someone who feels they're owed something for their money, and someone who is being given an incentive to agree to sex beyond simply their desire to have sex.

It creates situations ripe for abuse.

Which isn't to say I think it's automatically wrong. I don't think prostitution is inherently bad. I just think it's an environment that is highly prone to being coercive. That coupled with my own negative experiences means I'm inclined to hostility towards it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Of course you gotta pay upfront dumbass.

I can get a couple of hours credit for a week or so at one place I go to (where the manager is also my main ice connect). She told me she extends it on rare occasions to a couple of other reliable regulars who are on low incomes but liked by the girls. This is a place in the suburbs - not in any redlight area.

She also offers a free hour for every 10 you pay for. Seems like she understands repeat business is the best business. She puts a lot of effort into keeping out the 18-24 coked up market and encouraging the more mature gentlemen. But it’s also a compararatively budget priced place where you’d feel you really cheated the girl if you didn’t throw in a decent tip.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

What do you mean?

I don't have any problem with men or women hitting up men or women for sex provided it's all with consent, isn't abusive,, etc.

The problem once you introduce money into it is you have a power imbalance. You have someone who feels they're owed something for their money, and someone who is being given an incentive to agree to sex beyond simply their desire to have sex.

It creates situations ripe for abuse.

Which isn't to say I think it's automatically wrong. I don't think prostitution is inherently bad. I just think it's an environment that is highly prone to being coercive. That coupled with my own negative experiences means I'm inclined to hostility towards it.

I see your point. Maybe we just view sex in different ways?

I don't view sex as holy. It's just sex. To me, IF CONSENST is there, it's no diff than getting your hair cut or getting a massage.

Maybe I've been numbed to sex having whored myself for alot of years. No, didn't take cash, but I'd fuck you in the stall for a stiff drink, a whiff of speed, heroin and so forth.
If I could fuck women and get paid instead of having a 9-5, I'd fuck away.

Sex, that is when both grown parties have agreed to whatever terms, is just sweaty body parts.
Ain't nothing holy about that. Male bears suck each others dicks for pleaser.

But then again, I haven't been in that "world". I believe you when you say it's prone to being coercive.
I wonder how many of the girls/men in like Amsterdam are doing it volontarly? Having unions and regulations and shit.

I'm just speculating. I went to a pro as an 18-year old in Prague, but it ended up with me sobbing about cheating on my ex.
I never got to take my pants off, but it was worth those dineros to have someone listen and just stroke my hair.
Which I realize is utterly pathetic.

 

[JessFR]

I can get a couple of hours credit for a week or so at one place I go to (where the manager is also my main ice connect). She told me she extends it on rare occasions to a couple of other reliable regulars who are on low incomes but liked by the girls. This is a place in the suburbs - not in any redlight area.

She also offers a free hour for every 10 you pay for. Seems like she understands repeat business is the best business. She puts a lot of effort into keeping out the 18-24 coked up market and encouraging the more mature gentlemen. But it’s also a compararatively budget priced place where you’d feel you really cheated the girl if you didn’t throw in a decent tip.

I only prostituted occasionally. So anything like that wouldn't have made any sense. If they weren't offering enough money for my time I'd just turn them down.

Begging was my primary way to make money for my habit. Prostitution was just a last result.

 

[Jabberwocky]

.
I never got to take my pants off, but it was worth those dineros to have someone listen and just stroke my hair.
Which I realize is utterly pathetic.

I don’t think that’s pathetic at all and plenty of men visit sex workers for company or a non-judgemental person they can be themselves with.

Do you think that woman in Prague prefered the hour she spent comforting you or the hour she spent being pumped like a rag doll by a misogynist full of booze and anger?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm just speculating. I went to a pro as an 18-year old in Prague, but it ended up with me sobbing about cheating on my ex.
I never got to take my pants off, but it was worth those dineros to have someone listen and just stroke my hair.
Which I realize is utterly pathetic.

I was actually in several situations like that. Sometimes the men were just really lonely and had no one to talk to. Sometimes they were in marriages where the wife no longer wanted to fuck them, or care about their feelings, and it was easier for them to pay a woman for a couple hours than risk getting caught going out and picking someone up at a bar and whatnot.

And then there were others. Ones who wanted to pay me so they could outright be abusive because they wouldn't "get away with it with a normal girl."

Ones who actually ended up beating, raping, and robbing me.

Ones who said they developed feelings and wanted me to be a housewife.

There's such a wide range of people who actually pay for sex, that after you've done it and been in the lifestyle, you do end up looking at men a little differently, as I'm sure the men who pay for sex may possibly look at the women as well. I did meet some really amazing and sweet men while I was doing that. And some of them would explain to me why they felt doing it that way made more sense to them for their lifestyle, relationships etc.

I only ever judged the men who wanted to actually hurt me, or had some weird kink that was physically dangerous to me. I ended up putting myself in very unsafe situations several times because I needed the money. Or my ex would sometimes force me into situations I had a bad feeling about.

Either way, prostitution is pretty universal in terms like that. All walks of life participate. Like the women who don't use drugs. I would never be able to understand that. There is no way I would ever sell my body unless I was desperate and fucked up. But I don't know those ladies stories. I'm sure there's a multitude of reasons of why they do it. And I'm sure they are better at it because they aren't either dope sick or fucked up out of their minds....

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

I don’t think that’s pathetic at all and plenty of men visit sex workers for company or a non-judgemental person they can be themselves with.

Do you think that woman in Prague prefered the hour she spent comforting you or the hour she spent being pumped like a rag doll by a misogynist full of booze and anger?

Putting it that way, I guess you are right.
My friend, who was boozed up and pumped his "conquest" like a rag doll made me the laughingstock of the evening.

We ended up fist-fighting and getting kicked out of the club...

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

I was actually in several situations like that. Sometimes the men were just really lonely and had no one to talk to. Sometimes they were in marriages where the wife no longer wanted to fuck them, or care about their feelings, and it was easier for them to pay a woman for a couple hours than risk getting caught going out and picking someone up at a bar and whatnot.

And then there were others. Ones who wanted to pay me so they could outright be abusive because they wouldn't "get away with it with a normal girl."

Ones who actually ended up beating, raping, and robbing me.

Ones who said they developed feelings and wanted me to be a housewife.

There's such a wide range of people who actually pay for sex, that after you've done it and been in the lifestyle, you do end up looking at men a little differently, as I'm sure the men who pay for sex may possibly look at the women as well. I did meet some really amazing and sweet men while I was doing that. And some of them would explain to me why they felt doing it that way made more sense to them for their lifestyle, relationships etc.

I only ever judged the men who wanted to actually hurt me, or had some weird kink that was physically dangerous to me. I ended up putting myself in very unsafe situations several times because I needed the money. Or my ex would sometimes force me into situations I had a bad feeling about.

Either way, prostitution is pretty universal in terms like that. All walks of life participate. Like the women who don't use drugs. I would never be able to understand that. There is no way I would ever sell my body unless I was desperate and fucked up. But I don't know those ladies stories. I'm sure there's a multitude of reasons of why they do it. And I'm sure they are better at it because they aren't either dope sick or fucked up out of their minds....

Thank you for not judging me crying in the lap of a lady of the night. I've never told a living soul about it, except the dick who was with me on that trip.

Your ex?! Shiiit. What kind of lowlife would force his GF into this shit?

I'm so sorry to hear about all the abusive cunts you've encountered. That makes me truly fucking ashamed (as always!) about being a man.

Either way, and this means jack-shit from someone you don't know, I realise that, but you're not broken. Or used-up.
Sure, a bit bent, but aren't we all? I don't know, it seems fucked up, but I think the damage we accumilate is what makes us beautiful; to look into someones smiling eyes and see that the person in there is frayed, fragile - I don't know, that attracts me more than eyes full of sunshine and rainbows.

Or maybe that's what I tell myself because I know my gaze reflects debauchery and sorrow, and I'd like to think that my past decisions don't make me who I am.

“The damaged loves the damaged."

 

[JessFR]

Tbh, I hated the guys who solicited me. I despised them to a degree that's difficult to express in words.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i have mixed feelings about the guys who solicited me. some wanted to degrade and humiliate women as much as possible, i liked them at the time cos i could get a lot of money from them and not have to prostitute myself for maybe 24 hours as a result. some seemed like genuinely nice guys who like were actually interested in having a chat and listening to some music or something. most you're just a business transaction too and that was fine by me cos i could usually get them out quicker than the time they'd booked (which they'd pay at the start).

@Soso78 no man was benefitting from my work. fuck that. i'd had a boyf when i started. he would smoke the crack, like bug me badly for it all the time, but be so fucking sanctimonious about how i was paying for it. well, you don't get it both ways so he was gone within less than a week of me starting to make serious money out of it.

i did some therapy about sexual violence about this time last year. the lady there's view was that, in my case at least, prostituting myself was a continuation of the violence i'd been subjected to. she felt pretty sure i'd never have sold my body if i hadn't had the life i'd had before then. i don't know how you tell. but it makes me feel less guilty. i don't feel too ashamed because i'd had to learn to switch my brain off to sex to survive way before i sold my body, but the idea of telling my current boyfriend that i'd done that makes me want to die. he knows about the abuse i went through but i'm not sure how he'd cope with knowing what lengths i went to to support my habit. especially given a tthe time (we've known each other since we were 16) i was manipulating him into giving me money all the time. i am lucky to still have him in my life, he's the only person in the world that makes me feel slightly less alone, so i don't want to wreck that by telling him.

 

[JessFR]

i have mixed feelings about the guys who solicited me. some wanted to degrade and humiliate women as much as possible, i liked them at the time cos i could get a lot of money from them and not have to prostitute myself for maybe 24 hours as a result. some seemed like genuinely nice guys who like were actually interested in having a chat and listening to some music or something. most you're just a business transaction too and that was fine by me cos i could usually get them out quicker than the time they'd booked (which they'd pay at the start).

@Soso78 no man was benefitting from my work. fuck that. i'd had a boyf when i started. he would smoke the crack, like bug me badly for it all the time, but be so fucking sanctimonious about how i was paying for it. well, you don't get it both ways so he was gone within less than a week of me starting to make serious money out of it.

i did some therapy about sexual violence about this time last year. the lady there's view was that, in my case at least, prostituting myself was a continuation of the violence i'd been subjected to. she felt pretty sure i'd never have sold my body if i hadn't had the life i'd had before then. i don't know how you tell. but it makes me feel less guilty. i don't feel too ashamed because i'd had to learn to switch my brain off to sex to survive way before i sold my body, but the idea of telling my current boyfriend that i'd done that makes me want to die. he knows about the abuse i went through but i'm not sure how he'd cope with knowing what lengths i went to to support my habit. especially given a tthe time (we've known each other since we were 16) i was manipulating him into giving me money all the time. i am lucky to still have him in my life, he's the only person in the world that makes me feel slightly less alone, so i don't want to wreck that by telling him.

I don't tell anyone outside of bluelight what I did. And certainly noone I'm close too in real life. I don't want it ever getting back to my family.

It's easier on bluelight, apart from people understanding better, ironically the added distance makes it easier.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't tell anyone outside of bluelight what I did. And certainly noone I'm close too in real life. I don't want it ever getting back to my family.

ohmylord yeah the idea of it getting back to family is horrendous. the only people i have told in real life are in NA, and i am more careful about that now i've learned that most people in NA are complete nutjobs.

like even if family could understand on an intellectual level, i can't see how it wouldn't change the way they felt, and that would really hurt.

 

[JessFR]

ohmylord yeah the idea of it getting back to family is horrendous. the only people i have told in real life are in NA, and i am more careful about that now i've learned that most people in NA are complete nutjobs.

like even if family could understand on an intellectual level, i can't see how it wouldn't change the way they felt, and that would really hurt.

Exactly. It's not about if they'd understand or not. It's that I don't want to know they know.

As for NA, this is probably why there are women's meetings. Not that women aren't often nutjobs too. :D

 

[Jabberwocky]

haha yes exactly, that is why i go to a women's meeting, i needed somewhere that i could be open about that shit.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It has been very interesting hearing the perspectives here of women who have engaged in sex work.

It’s only been in my 40s and now early 50s that I’ve paid for sex. In my 20s and 30s I would often enough pay for sex workers time and help in scoring drugs and having somewhere relatively safe to take them but I never touched them in those days.

I was sexually abused as a kid from around 7-9 and it has left me with a real horror at the idea of someone being compelled or manipulated into a sex act they did not wish to do. Because I presumed that all sex workers hated their work and their clients and were trapped unwillingly in the life I could never look at them sexually.

The thing that changed was meth and loneliness after my last long term relationship broke down. When I ventured into the world of sexual services I actually went to meth using transwomen first because it seemed more obvious they were having just as much fun as I was. I have no reservations about using their services. And spending time with transwomen has sigmificantly reduced some prejudices I had.

After this conversation however I feel more conflicted about my behaviour with cis sex workers than I ever have. I suspect that no amount of being the perfectly respectful client can remove a power imbalance that is not dissimilar to that between my abusers and me way back when. I also really question whether I am just extraordinarily naive to believe that I have experienced a few authentic moments in my adventures. Perhaps being a big tipper simply buys you that illusion.

I need to reflect more on this conundrum, though if I go clean on Jan 1 as planned it will become a moot point because without drugs I wouldn’t even consider visiting a sex worker.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Don't judge yourself. If you were as you've said a gentleman and kind to those you paid, I don't personally think you've done anything wrong. This is a taboo subject and really strong feelings come out of discussions like these.

I think it's wonderful that you were a decent human to people who are often treated as less than.

 

[tubgirl.jpg]

Tbh, I hated the guys who solicited me. I despised them to a degree that's difficult to express in words.

Though I can't truly know what that feels like, I can understand, I think.
In all probably, I can't, not even near. But I try and it doesn't feel good, man.

Question for you;
I don't trust therapists, at all. Every single one I've seen has just made me feel more like a basketcase than before.
I would however have no problem paying a working pro again, just to fucking... vent.
I'd pay to sit on a parkbench in broad daylight and just talk. Me, me, me.
Somethings you can't tell your parents, your best friend or anybody else, and I'm not talking perverted or violent, deviating shit.
Like, I can't tell my best friend suicide is a ghost in my head and I talk to him every fucking day; can't tell my sisters or parents.
And I do realize it's fucking odd to put that weight on a random person.

Is that fucking weird? Did you have guys like that, who just wanted to talk?
And did you despise them just the same as the ones just lookin to cum somewhere?

 

[JessFR]

Though I can't truly know what that feels like, I can understand, I think.
In all probably, I can't, not even near. But I try and it doesn't feel good, man.

Question for you;
I don't trust therapists, at all. Every single one I've seen has just made me feel more like a basketcase than before.
I would however have no problem paying a working pro again, just to fucking... vent.
I'd pay to sit on a parkbench in broad daylight and just talk. Me, me, me.
Somethings you can't tell your parents, your best friend or anybody else, and I'm not talking perverted or violent, deviating shit.
Like, I can't tell my best friend suicide is a ghost in my head and I talk to him every fucking day; can't tell my sisters or parents.
And I do realize it's fucking odd to put that weight on a random person.

Is that fucking weird? Did you have guys like that, who just wanted to talk?
And did you despise them just the same as the ones just lookin to cum somewhere?

Well, I'm not the best person to ask.

As I said earlier. My main source of income was begging for money. Prostituting was a last resort.

And since I live in a country with legal, regulated, organized prostitution, the only guys who solicit girls off the street rather than go to a brothel are the real scumbag ones.

Hence my extreme hatred of them.