What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Negi]

Very rarely did I see a pupil picture that looked right when they were popular.

The reason that pupil pictures doesn't show up anymore is because they were all moved to /r/DilatedPupils/. If you do a search for "MDMA" or "rolling" on there you will absolutely see that people are getting a strong effect.

The lack of openness of many of the posters, and general negativity that often moves around that forum shows this as well.

I won't comment on the general atmosphere, but just looking at the posts where individuals make it clear that they are rolling most of them are looking for people to talk with, which does not match any of the reported "mehDMA" effects (everyone notes a total lack of the pro-social effects, and often a desire to be alone).

And are you kidding me on dosing? Yea some of the American posters maybe?.. All the UK sesh lads that swear up and down they get the best product also swear only 250+mg doses work.

I feel like the heavy use in the UK is much more a function of wider social and cultural forces than the quality of the MDMA. It's certainly not limited to MDMA, and nobody is claiming that alcohol has changed because 14 year olds in the UK are necking 3 cans of cider and trying to stab someone. It's also not a new phenomenon, when I was reading through the archived pill reports people in 2000 were talking about taking 19 pills over the course of a night. I don't think anyone has claimed that heavy users (which the weekly sesh heads certainly are) don't build a tolerance on "magic MDMA".

 

[G_Chem]

The reason that pupil pictures doesn't show up anymore is because they were all moved to /r/DilatedPupils/. If you do a search for "MDMA" or "rolling" on there you will absolutely see that people are getting a strong effect.



I won't comment on the general atmosphere, but just looking at the posts where individuals make it clear that they are rolling most of them are looking for people to talk with, which does not match any of the reported "mehDMA" effects (everyone notes a total lack of the pro-social effects, and often a desire to be alone).



I feel like the heavy use in the UK is much more a function of wider social and cultural forces than the quality of the MDMA. It's certainly not limited to MDMA, and nobody is claiming that alcohol has changed because 14 year olds in the UK are necking 3 cans of cider and trying to stab someone. It's also not a new phenomenon, when I was reading through the archived pill reports people in 2000 were talking about taking 19 pills over the course of a night. I don't think anyone has claimed that heavy users (which the weekly sesh heads certainly are) don't build a tolerance on "magic MDMA".

Not sure you read that first quote, I said “when they were popular” aka still around. I know they just moved elsewhere and I disagree most of the pupil pictures I’ve seen on Reddit are lackluster. I’ll go look agai right now to see what I see though.


You won’t comment on the general atmosphere because you know what I’m talking about, folks getting neg repped for good info while stupid sesh lads get positive repped to infinity for moronic memes about eat “T0nz of druuugzz.”


14 yr olds have ALWAYS been necking 3 ciders and doing stupid shit. That’s been a forever thing, I did it when I was a kid, my dad did it... MDMA on the other hand has changed drastically in dosages used over the years in odd ways that don’t necessarily correlate with societal changes.

I’m sorry but I’ve watch kids who think they can eat “soo much MD” eat some of the product I get and be floored off 100mg. I just don’t buy that 12yr old UK kids can eat 250mg off the bat and have minimal effects like I hear on that subreddit.

-GC

 

[Negi]

You won’t comment on the general atmosphere because you know what I’m talking about, folks getting neg repped for good info while stupid sesh lads get positive repped to infinity for moronic memes about eat “T0nz of druuugzz.”

Unfortunately that's just the way that reddit works, funny images/memes are always going to get more upvotes because they are relateable to more people than discussion posts (and also easier to see for people lazily scrolling through reddit on their phone, which is a majority of users these days). The LSD subreddit has it far worse. Once you get off the front page and into the comments on posts I almost always see helpful advice being upvoted, and people will call out heavy doses and frequent rolls (almost to the extreme, many people there seem to consider the three months rule essential for brain health, rather than a suggestion to retain the magic).

14 yr olds have ALWAYS been necking 3 ciders and doing stupid shit. That’s been a forever thing, I did it when I was a kid, my dad did it... MDMA on the other hand has changed drastically in dosages used over the years in odd ways that don’t necessarily correlate with societal changes.

The price of alcohol hasn't dropped to nearly a 1/4 of what it once was at the same time that the bottles doubled in size (pill dosages going to over 200mg) and 1L jugs of pure alcohol became available (the ability to buy grams of powder MDMA). My point was also that lots of countries don't have heavy binge drinking among young teenagers, UK drinking culture is a pretty extreme outlier in that regard.

I’m sorry but I’ve watch kids who think they can eat “soo much MD” eat some of the product I get and be floored off 100mg

That just sounds like kids lying about their use to fit in and seem cool. I'm sure everyone's met someone who "smokes so much weed" or "tripped super hard on mushrooms/LSD" but then got way too high or freaked out when they were actually given drugs.

I just don’t buy that 12yr old UK kids can eat 250mg off the bat and have minimal effects like I hear on that subreddit.

We must be reading completely different trip/roll reports. When I've seen young people from the UK talk about heavy dosed first experiences "minimal effects" is certainly not the result. They talk about being totally incoherent and ending up with shredded gums from gurning. I think what the UK "sesh"/party culture is doing to young teenagers is pretty horrific, and I even made one of those stupid memes to try and get it across to the subreddit


Here's the post, there's some interesting discussion about US vs UK MDMA usage in the comments:

 

[JoEhJoEh]

I'm not a native speaker and I have a superstupid question:

I always read "rolling" here. Does that just mean you are on MDMA or XTC or does it have other meanings, too?

Jj

 

[Negi]

I'm not a native speaker and I have a superstupid question:

I always read "rolling" here. Does that just mean you are on MDMA or XTC or does it have other meanings, too?

Jj

Nope, that's pretty much it:

As you probably know, the term "rolling" refers to the state of being on ecstasy. My understanding of the origins of this term are that it comes from the physical sensation of the drug.
"Rolling face" is usually used to mean feeling the effects very strongly - similar to the way LSD users will say "tripping balls" when they're having an unusually strong trip.

 

[draculic acid69]

OMG 250???

I'm very satisfied with 50 to 100 mg. never more.

Even when I was a frequent heavy user I only once had more than 2x100mg at one time.i had 3 once and blacked out.
250mg all at once implies sub standard product in one way or another

 

[Negi]

Even when I was a frequent heavy user I only once had more than 2x100mg at one time.i had 3 once and blacked out.
250mg all at once implies sub standard product in one way or another

How often were you taking it as a frequent heavy user? Did you notice any tolerance or reduction in effectiveness?

 

[draculic acid69]

Tolerance: yes, to a degree but no reduction in effectiveness.a single pill still got me high for a few hours.it never stopped working. Friday and Saturday nights every wk for two+solid years of going hard.

 

[indigoaura]

I have no idea what my 2000-2005 doses were really, because who knows what the pills contained. But, I always just started with a single pill, and I never double dropped. Yes, I re-dosed. I almost always took a total of 2-3 pills. There were a handful of occasions I took more than that. I think the most I ever took in one night was 5 pills (due to them being weaker pills to begin with). Never participated in the weekly culture, always waited a month.

I am sure that to many people who read my comments I seem like an obvious case of losing the magic (and maybe I am). What none of you really understand, however, is how my experience transformed from a very predictable, reliable, experience to a completely different experience the minute my dealer quit and I started using "molly" instead of pills. The change correlated with the change in drug provider, and this happened back in 2005, and I've been wondering about it ever since.

So, my "loss of magic" would have needed to occur precisely at the point that I stopped having a supplier for pills, which seems odd.

 

[Negi]

Tolerance: yes, to a degree but no reduction in effectiveness.a single pill still got me high for a few hours.it never stopped working. Friday and Saturday nights every wk for two+solid years of going hard.

You still had the whole "I love everyone and can feel the connections to them, lets have deep conversations" part of MDMA at the end of that? That's pretty impressive.

 

[draculic acid69]

You still had the whole "I love everyone and can feel the connections to them, lets have deep conversations" part of MDMA at the end of that? That's pretty impressive.

Yes.none of the effect changed which is why I think the whole waiting two months between rolls to avoid whatever bullshit they say this prevents is nonsense.tolerance happens but even with the regularity it never resulted in "loss of magic" or anything else ppl r claiming could be the reason for sub-par product

 

[Negi]

It seems to be pretty clear that individual genetics/biology plays a very significant role in tolerance, "losing the magic" and even stuff like comedowns. This makes any discussion and advice related to the matter quite complicated. It also tends to focus communities and discussion in certain ways, because individuals who quickly lose the effects or have horrific comedowns are much less likely to stick around in the rave scene/MDMA discussion forums. The origin of the "three month rule" was Ann Shulgin, and if anyone had the highest quality MDMA it would be her (unless people think that Shulgin's original re-synthesis in the 1970's was mehDMA).

The only thing that has happened with everyone I know who has used MDMA a great deal is that if they used it more than 4 times a year, they developed a tolerance, and after a few years, it begins to not work for them. They want to get back the magic of the first experience, and that is a mistake, because - as Sasha likes to say -- "You never step into the same river water twice. " I found out, for myself, that using MDMA more often than four times a year was not wise. I used MDMA as a writing drug for about a year. Once a week, I would do a great deal of writing using MDMA; it was a wonderful experience for me to use it that way, but I discovered after that kind of use that I had to go up in dosage to get an effect, and the effect became less and less the magical insight; it was more and more the stimulant effects, and for many years now, I have been totally unable to use it. Not only because now it is illegal, but because I used it once a week, and that was too often. Nobody knew that, then, but now I would advise anyone who wants to use MDMA not to take it more than 4 times a year if you want to continue to get the best effects from it, otherwise you risk losing its effects entirely and permanently.

 

[indigoaura]

Yes.none of the effect changed which is why I think the whole waiting two months between rolls to avoid whatever bullshit they say this prevents is nonsense.tolerance happens but even with the regularity it never resulted in "loss of magic" or anything else ppl r claiming could be the reason for sub-par product

Even among my friend group, the seriousness of the comedowns and long term effects from MDMA use vary greatly. Three people I know developed bi-polar disorder that required they be institutionalized due to hallucinations. Another woman I know only did MDMA a few times and had a psychotic break that spiraled her into a severe depression. I realize it could be argued that perhaps people with bi-polar disorder/depression are pre-disposed to MDMA to begin with, and that is absolutely possible. But I do find it odd that so many people I know who used MDMA went in this direction. Several other friends who abused MDMA pretty heavily developed severe depression later in life. My partner has a host of bizarre health/psychological problems and auto-immune issues with unclear origins. All of this may have happened to these people anyway, and it might have nothing to do with MDMA. BUT, the MDMA could have also played a part, or played a synergistic role with alcohol use etc.

On the other hand, I have friends who have never stopped using MDMA for 20 years and are fine, with seemingly no health issues or psychological problems.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

Could be MDA too? MDA is a pretty decent experience around those doses that feels more like MDMA than MDA.

-GC

It isn't MDA. If the source I got it from had MDA they would have sold it to me as MDA. I requested MDA when I bought this batch and was informed that there was none but there was good MDMA in stock. I'll see about sending some out to a lab to have it tested. My last dose may have been more than 50mg but there is no way the initial dose was higher than 70mg. I checked the scales I used today they're calibrated correctly and the remainder of what I bought is still in the bag less what I've done myself and given away (about 300mg). It's weighing up right where it's supposed to be.

 

[Simosom]

@G_Chem
You are always having best reviews of your stashed batches.
Community would be thankful if you can send some of your magic stuff to Energy Control or to Indigoaura so she can try and bust magic loss myth once for all.

 

[G_Chem]

@G_Chem
You are always having best reviews of your stashed batches.
Community would be thankful if you can send some of your magic stuff to Energy Control or to Indigoaura so she can try and bust magic loss myth once for all.

We’re in the process Hopefully we’ll be sending in the most recent batch I took to see what happens.

I think it’s my local connects back home cuz I’ve yet to find anything similar when I travel about. My home is known for producing very intelligent yet “progressive” minds.

-GC

 

[Simosom]

Great.
Thank you in the name of the community.

 

[G_Chem]

Great.
Thank you in the name of the community.

Thank Indigo too, she’s the one that will be covering the bill. I’m just a poor wook with good connects and an eye for quality haha.

Really curious about this last batch myself, it was different in an odd way that was unlike much of the product I’ve been taking.

When I characterize “meh” I think of a product which isn’t very social, mongy/sleepy can’t-keep-your-eyes-open, lack of love, lack of euphoria, 2-3 hour experience.

The stuff I typically take is very social, not sleepy although not super stimulating either, a nice natural energy, very loving, 4-6hr experience.

This last product was like too strong for public, the first hour was the peak of all peaks, hypersexual, coulda been fucking in public if it all lined up, then mellowed out a bit more but overall even more stimulating. Woke up with a headache too which reminded me of how good pills used to feel back in 00’s, I would always wake up with a splitting headache that would go away fairly quick into an afterglow. (Exactly like this last experience.)

When comparing the last experience to my typical, it was better/stronger but I still absolutely love the clean natural less pushy feel of the “typical” stuff. I don’t think this product would be good for multiple day festivals where you gotta feel like a halfway normal human being when you wake up. Trying to gather my shit and hike it all out after that woulda been interesting lol.

The afterglow from this last one however has been very nice and longer lasting than usual. I will cherish the rest of this measly gram I have.

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

Really curious about this last batch myself, it was different in an odd way that was unlike much of the product I’ve been taking.

People who came into Houston from out of town used to comment on the different quality of our ecstasy back in the 00s. They said it was more intense than what they found elsewhere. I wonder if this batch you have is the same as what was going around Houston. It sounds the same from your description. Do you think there is any chance this batch you have is a leuckart synth?

 

[Xpacta86]

Most people are getting the desired effects from those doses. I'm quite active on the /r/MDMA subreddit, where people frequently post roll/trip reports. Outside of Europe (where people are often taking high strength pills), many people are taking under 200mg (and people who exceed it are usually taking a redose, i.e 150mg + 70mg 90 minutes later). Even the people who are taking the ~250mg pills often mention they are taking them in halves. These reports make it pretty clear that they are getting the classic MDMA effects (I posted some samples back in the thread).

Here's some data from the 2019 Global Drugs Survey:

In many countries, most people don't take more than 200mg of MDMA in a total session (I'm only looking at powder since it's impossible to know the dosages of the pills). And if I remember the survey questions correctly, they only offered 100mg increments for the question. So the that 200mg number includes everyone in that 120mg - 150mg range (as it's more than 100mg).



When was your most recent roll before taking the pill (and at what dose)? When did you first encounter mehDMA, and have you had "magic" MDMA since?

Last roll was February - 3x130 mg. Meh appeared around 2008 in my area. 2015 took some dutch imported pills were awesome - real magic. Since that encountered only mehMDMA.