Police Brutality Thread

[TheLoveBandit]

Blacks take the Gold in the oppression Olympics in this country. And its not even close.

Native American Indians may have a point or two to raise on that subject.

 

[mal3volent]

Native American Indians may have a point or two to raise on that subject.

well I already brought them up, but

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/06/10/why-native-americans-dont-want-reparations/

trust me, I'd be all for doing whatever it took to repay both of these groups,

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

How, concretely, do you calculate who owes who?

How many people are now here who didn't own slaves? What do they owe? The time to do this has long passed (by at least 100 years).

There are some serious holes in this way of thinking.

How can we actually make society better?

This is a much better question, why isn't this the focus? Are these people actually interested in improving Black Lives, or is this a means to grab power for people who aren't even black?

 

[Shrooms00087]

The funny thing about COINTEL-PRO is how the core component operates. Setting aside assassinations the main component is to 'disrupt and discredit political movements'. So naturally you hear that your local section8 public housing is burning and the rabble is starting to steal Nikes and burn random gas stations down and throw up the black power fist.

What a fucking gift to the government. The public almost took them seriously. Not enough people talking people out of burning shit.

*Edit: This is what the black fist looks like to pensioners:
Take me seriously.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Just for the record, COINTEL-PRO ended in 1971.

That's almost 50 years ago.

What is your point?

How, precisely, does that affect things today?

 

[JGrimez]

COINTELPRO still goes on, it's like MK-ULTRA. Officially it was terminated, unofficially....

It's a classic and effective tactic - if a political movement threatens the establishment then infiltrate it and poison it from within.
I don't think that's entirely the case with BLM - who George Soros gave $35 million to. They were set up to cause racial division and destabilization.

Conservatives fear a rerun of 'affirmative action' whereby a race is elevated and given benefits or rights above all others unfairly in the name of ...what, catching up and paying past sins? I'm not saying any race (the black ones that matter, for a start) deserve any rights or privileges above anyone else, nor that it is the direction we will go.

Well yeah with affirmative action it's framed by its proponents as helping a specific race but what they don't explain is the fact that other races are then discriminated against. Eg someone as a white person (who may come from a very difficult background as many do) works extremely hard but then the meritocracy states - even though you worked hard enough to be accepted into this prestigious university you will not be accepted due to your race. Someone else who didn't get as good grades as you did will be accepted, due to their race, and the justification for that is due to actions in the past of people that probably have nothing to do you with at all. But they resemble you. I don't see how someone cannot see this is as a racist policy. It's interesting now that Asians are being racially oppressed in the same way - punished collectively for being too smart and too hard-working.


Whites Were Slaves In North Africa Before Blacks Were Slaves In The New World
Excerpts:

Ohio State University history Professor Robert Davis describes the White Slave Trade as minimized by most modern historians in his book Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy, 1500–1800. Davis estimates that 1 million to 1.25 million Europeans were enslaved in North Africa, from the beginning of the 16th century to the middle of the 18th, by slave traders from Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli alone (these numbers do not include the European people who were enslaved by Morocco and by other raiders and traders of the Mediterranean Sea coast),[3] and roughly 700 Americans were held captive in this region as slaves between 1785 and 1815.[4]

“Perpetrated largely on Europeans, and within in-land routes to indigenous European inhabitants. These peoples were systematically preyed upon and turned into slaves, acquired by Barbary pirates during slave raids on ships and by raids on coastal towns from Italy to the Netherlands, as far north as Iceland and in the eastern shores of the Mediterranean.”

“White slavery, white slave trade, and white slave traffic refer to the chattel slavery of White Europeans by non-Europeans (such as North Africans and the Muslim world), as well as by Europeans themselves, such as the Viking thralls or European Galley slaves. From Antiquity, European slaves were common during the reign of Ancient Rome and were prominent during the Ottoman Empire into the early modern period. In Feudalism, there were various forms of status below the Freeman that is known as Serfdom (such as the bordar, villein, vagabond and slave) which could be bought and sold as property and were subject to labor and branding by their owners or demense. Under Muslim rule, the Arab slave trades that included Caucasian captives were often fueled by raids into European territories or were taken as children in the form of a blood tax from the families of citizens of conquered territories to serve the empire for a variety of functions. In the mid-19th century, the term ‘white slavery’ was used to describe the Christian slaves that were sold into the Barbary slave trade.”

The point is slavery existed everywhere and punishing people today for the sins of the past is a terrible idea.
If you're only focusing on one specific version of slavery and throwing out debunked talking points to justify it then you're probably being politically-manipulated.

 

[Shrooms00087]

Just for the record, COINTEL-PRO ended in 1971.

That's almost 50 years ago.

What is your point?

How, precisely, does that affect things today?

It's just a way of framing an image you'd like project. I think I accomplished what I intended to paint. Subversion by sabotage it's still a symptom even if it isn't the government burning down buildings. The thing that makes it a gift is the fact that they don't have to.

 

[JGrimez]

Seattle PD got a credible threat that someone was planning to burn down their precinct - so they were ordered to desert it.
This right there tells you something it up - because that happening is just patently ridiculous.
Then the Governor of WA was asked about CHAZ and he said that he didn't know anything about it...

Obvious agenda is obvious.

 

[jackie jones]

Native American Indians may have a point or two to raise on that subject.

The difference being Native Americans are still being denied what is theirs.

 

[Shrooms00087]

Hey this shit hole is for everybody. They got incorporated to the largest military in the most advance economy in the world for years to come. They even have their own governments within the federal government and receive benefits. Everybody has a sad story about some vaguely looking ape marauder. Skin color is just a shitty gene being coded in melonin it's just a written history of weather patterns. Anyway these apes made it to space and they're asking for neighbors -- supposedly they already sent nudes, location, and mix tape on a satellite and threw that sucker randomly into space. Wait, what was the point? Oh. Native Americans, what did they want? We have Snickers and knick knacks you guys need any of that shit?

 

[JGrimez]

 

[empeebee]

If you can't defend your land you can't complain when someone comes and takes it. Sounds harsh but that's the reality of the world we live in

So if you have bows and arrows and the invaders have guns and cannons, and you lose, then it is your fault and you shouldn't complain?

Harsh reality yes, but it remains reasonable that as civilization progresses the invader could be held to account at some point in the future.

 

[DopeM]

If you can't defend your land you can't complain when someone comes and takes it. Sounds harsh but that's the reality of the world we live in.



Blacks got off better than the natives who couldn't resist the white mans diseases so I'd argue they'd take the Gold. You don't understand what I'm getting at. 99% of the people marching for equality are racists. They just hate a different shade of color. If you think punishing white people that weren't even alive when Jim Crow is going on is going to solve the race issue I have a bridge in New York you might be interested in. If you read history race/class conflicts are always used to divide nations and are typically instigated by folks seeking power. Usually, the so-called usual idiots that bring about change like that are the first ones that are lined up against a wall and shot as soon as they've served their purpose. It's all double think, like claiming to celebrate diversity while also claiming we're all the same. The celebration of diversity to me implies we celebrate our differences because those are the things that make us all unique.

There is no problem with having multiple races, and having those races separated into their own communities as long as they're doing it by choice. There isn't a problem with races mixing and forming new communities either. That's how most of human history and evolution works. What does cause problems is forcing different people into the same areas against their will and giving each group their own set of rules and standards. This only causes fighting and problems that eventually lead to bloodshed. Where I live we have multiple races/groups living in the area. I've noticed nearly all of these people prefer to live around their own groups and you don't have to enforce any laws to keep them separated. That is just the natural state of things and how humans work (they prefer their in-group). All of these groups have their own problems and people within them that only exist to cause drama. I've met assholes of all colors: white, black, yellow, brown etc.

All I'm telling you is if you keep blaming a group of people that just want to go to work and raise their families for all the countries problems at some point they're going to get mad and get violent. You don't want to see violent white people, violent white people are the most vicious war like people on the face of the Earth and all you have to do is look at history to see what I'm talking about. At some point they're going to get sick of being blamed for everything because of the color of their skin and they're going to decide to do something about it. I pray that day doesn't come but I'm pretty sure we're going to see it because it doesn't look like this progressive train we're on is stopping any time soon.

The rich want a race war.

I'm.not sure they're looking to punish the white population. At least not a majority of ppl running in those circles.


They want equality.

They want their sons and daughters to be able to walk down the street without getting unwarranted stops & searches. They want to be able to drive their cars that they bought with money they worked hard for and earned without being stopped based on the color of their skin when they drive through their affluent neighborhood that they worked hard to buy a house in, or even just their ghetto where they are still persecuted. They just want to wake up and not live in fear.


Maybe I'm just a small town shmuck, but when I walk down to city hall and see people of all color walking side by side peacefully and they smile and hug me for being there with them I dont see a glimmer of hate in any of their eyes. I see love, compassion, and fear. To say that 99% of those ppl are racist is just wrong. It'd be as wrong as me saying 99% of the people I just described want a peaceful revolution - bc 99% is just a dumb fucking number you pulled out of your ass.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

A meme included two images labeled respectively, “The 54th Massachusetts Regiment Memorial vandalized by Black Lives Matter this week” and “The 54th Massachusetts Regiment.” The first was an image of a monument known as the Memorial to Robert Gould Shaw and the Massachusetts Fifty-Fourth Regiment in Boston. The back of the monument was defaced by unknown parties during protests and counter-protests on May 30 and 31 2020. The second image showed the “District of Columbia. Company E, 4th U.S. Colored Infantry, at Fort Lincoln” per the Library of Congress, not the 54th Massachusetts Regiment.

I've gone back to read the article linked, and found this:

That reporting went on to explain the context of the memorial site:

The Shaw Memorial captures the likenesses of the first African American volunteer infantry unit – the 54th Massachusetts Regiment – that fought after Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation. Their colonel, Robert Gould Shaw, advocated for the men to join the war because they desperately wanted to fight for freedom. If the soldiers had been captured in battle they could have been enslaved or killed. Their heroic story was recounted in the 1989 Hollywood film “Glory.”

“They did fight in a major battle at Fort Wagner. And many of them were killed, including Shaw,” Vizza said. They were buried together in a mass grave.[/qutoe]

So while the bottom image is of a different colored unit, the defaced monument WAS in fact for a colored unit fighting for the north in the Civil war. The ignorance of the graffiti still stands if done by BLM, and I'd call it ignorance by counter protesters as well since I couldn't give them enough credit to do so intentionally - whomever did it was idiotic. I don't think anyone involved knew the actual significance of the monument.

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm.not sure they're looking to punish the white population. At least not a majority of ppl running in those circles.


They want equality.

They want their sons and daughters to be able to walk down the street without getting unwarranted stops & searches. They want to be able to drive their cars that they bought with money they worked hard for and earned without being stopped based on the color of their skin when they drive through their affluent neighborhood that they worked hard to buy a house in, or even just their ghetto where they are still persecuted. They just want to wake up and not live in fear.


Maybe I'm just a small town shmuck, but when I walk down to city hall and see people of all color walking side by side peacefully and they smile and hug me for being there with them I dont see a glimmer of hate in any of their eyes. I see love, compassion, and fear. To say that 99% of those ppl are racist is just wrong. It'd be as wrong as me saying 99% of the people I just described want a peaceful revolution - bc 99% is just a dumb fucking number you pulled out of your ass.

This. When people are raised together among other ethnicities, and no one is taught to fear or feel separate from them, kids grow up without those feelings. Fear/mistrust of other groups is, IME, nurture, far more than nature. Throughout human history, we have so often had reason to fear other groups, but this is not necessary. If an entire generation of people was brought up to stop seeing race, we'd have a real chance to stop seeing race. Except of course the sociopathic leaders would keep trying to use it as a wedge to divide and conquer.

Racism is taught, it isn't inherent. Children are taught, either explictly or implicitly, how to feel about others. It is natural to wonder why someone looks and acts differently than someone else, but the response to that questioning, and the subsequent shaping of that child's future perceptions, is up to the parents and other adults who are responsible for that child's shaping. And even adults can choose how to respond, despite their early experiences. For example, growing up in the Chicago area, where race relations aren't good, especially in the 80s and 90s, I was afraid of black people except the ones I knew, because in school, they were intimidating and threatening to me. I used to get scared when I would walk by one. But I chose to approach the reflexive response that instilled in me with understanding instead of judgment. There is good reason for black people to fear white people, and there was good reason for me to fear black people. Yet if we all chose to understand where that is coming from, things could be a lot better.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

How, concretely, do you calculate who owes who?

How many people are now here who didn't own slaves? What do they owe? The time to do this has long passed (by at least 100 years).

There are some serious holes in this way of thinking.

How can we actually make society better?

This is a much better question, why isn't this the focus? Are these people actually interested in improving Black Lives, or is this a means to grab power for people who aren't even black?

Exactly. As quiet as it's kept, free blacks and Native American tribes also owned black African slaves.

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

So if you have bows and arrows and the invaders have guns and cannons, and you lose, then it is your fault and you shouldn't complain?

Harsh reality yes, but it remains reasonable that as civilization progresses the invader could be held to account at some point in the future.

The invader can only be held accountable if someone other than them obtains the power to punish them. Japan fended off everyone that came for years despite being far behind the rest of the world technologically when they were isolated. No one liked their methods but you can't deny they worked. Sometimes you have to politely ask people to leave when they show up and if they refuse you have to kill them. You never want it to come to that but that's how it is if you want to keep your culture intact. The natives had the numbers and could have driven out the white man even with the technological gap if they seized the opportunity. The technological gap isn't all it's cracked up to be, if you need a modern example look at the Middle East where the natives have been defending themselves with AK-47s against the most technologically advanced fighting force the world has ever seen.

They want equality.

They want their sons and daughters to be able to walk down the street without getting unwarranted stops & searches. They want to be able to drive their cars that they bought with money they worked hard for and earned without being stopped based on the color of their skin when they drive through their affluent neighborhood that they worked hard to buy a house in, or even just their ghetto where they are still persecuted. They just want to wake up and not live in fear.

I want all of that too. All of those dealings with the police have happened to me too. Yet I'm told this is impossible and I'm privileged. They fail to understand that it's being done to everyone and expending effort in-fighting only serves to keep those in power in positions of power. I was never taught racism, in fact my Dad pretty much beat it out of us and taught up never to judge a man by the color of his skin. I don't judge black people by their color, I judge them by their actions and how they choose to present themselves in public. When I see certain black people that dress a certain way, talk a certain way, act a certain way I do pay more attention to them. I do that because people like that have robbed me, pulled guns on me, beaten me, and acted racist towards me. I fear them as much as I fear the police.

I'm not going to unlearn to fear them because they are dangerous people and yes they do deserve to be punished for their actions. You know exactly what I'm talking about and I'm sick of people trying to pretend these people don't exist. Yes these people aren't exclusive to the black race but they are a problem within those communities and the lifestyle is promoted in the media. I'm tired of people claiming it isn't there fault as if they don't wake up every morning and make decisions for themselves. If they really want to change the environment they live in they'd work towards changing it or moving away from it. Don't tell me it's impossible because I've done both and I assure you no one was there to help me nor did my so-called privilege have anything to do with it.

It's like the argument about the police profiling them. The police profile everybody. If you're white and want to get the attention of the police just grow your hair out and start dressing like a hippy. You'll get plenty of attention and if you're lucky they might even plant some evidence in your car the next time you get pulled over. The police are not profiling blacks because they're black, they're profiling blacks because of how they present themselves. Dress like an adult and don't advertise the fact that you participate in criminal acts and you'll have far less problems with them. It isn't 100%, some cops will just pull you over on a dark street at 3am and beat the fuck out of you for no reason. I know because it happened to me once. The ones that beat my ass were white and so was I.

It's a shitty world but blaming other people dealing with it isn't going to solve any problems. Gathering together, singing/dancing, and talking of peace doesn't bring about change. It's a nice idea/gesture but problems are not solved that way. If you're talking about revolution at some point you're talking about arming people and fighting for it. If you've decided you don't want to include some people in your revolution, like whites, don't expect them to help. If you're white and fight with people like that in a revolution don't expect to be a first class citizen by the time it's over with. If you're afraid to fight against the US military because of all their toys just shut up, pay your taxes, and deal with the fact that it's just going to keep getting worse every year. None of them care about you past your money and labor. As long as you're a good little consumer buying the latest iPhone and not complaining about the robbery that is taxes they're fine with you complaining all you want. You're just going to vote for one of their people anyway and if the results are not what they expect they'll just fix the election.

This is a novel now but I want to add one last thing and really stress this point: There are just two classes of people on this Earth. There is the class in power that rules over the poor and there are people like us, the poor. The ruling class wants two main things right now. They want to become immortal through the use of technology and they want to reduce the total population because they only need so many slaves. I've heard numbers thrown around like 5 million and 500 million. There are 7 billion on Earth right now so a lot of us poor people have to go. They've done a good job slowing things down with abortion, birth control, and various other methods but it isn't enough. A purge is coming and it's coming soon.

If you think I'm crazy or wrong just go seek out the information yourself. It's harder to find now because so much of the internet is censored but it's still out there. I suggest starting out with some stones in Georgia and going from there. All you need to do is look up speeches and quotes from the mega-rich and you'll find they all agree with what is written on those stones. This is why all instigation of in-fighting is highly suspect in my mind and I'm not going to get on board with it. I know who the enemy is and he's not the black guy down town of the hillbilly in the mountains. Anyone not in the 1% is probably a good person and if he's not on board with what I'm talking about then he's just been misled like most. You can't blame them they've been fed bullshit since the Government got ahold of them when they were 4 years old. It's hard to convince someone they're wrong when you're dealing with 20 years of television and 18 years of Government schooling telling them they're right.

 

[empeebee]

Japan fended off everyone that came for years despite being far behind the rest of the world technologically when they were isolated. No one liked their methods but you can't deny they worked

Japan is a particularly good example of countries that are near impossible to invade, largely due to be a group of islands. So, not a good example of the discussion. Japan was invaded a few times however.

Sometimes you have to politely ask people to leave when they show up and if they refuse you have to kill them

Yep, and these guerrilla tactics have been mostly successful for a few centuries now. The invader either either retreats once the financial costs of occupation exceed the benefits, or wipes out the indigenous population to the point of near genocide.

The natives had the numbers and could have driven out the white man even with the technological gap if they seized the opportunity

If the Apache, Sioux, Comanche had united against the invaders, much like the Boadicea/ Boudica united the 'English' tribes against the Romans, then maybe they might have won. The Native American tribes however did not unite , so other than an occasional battle here and there, generally lost battles.

I think if you delve into military history a little more you'll find that a more technologically advanced invader (or defender) will win 9 times out of 10 (e.g. English longbow in the battle of Agincourt, use of crossbows by cavalry between the 10th and 15th centuries).

if you need a modern example look at the Middle East where the natives have been defending themselves with AK-47s against the most technologically advanced fighting force the world has ever seen

Not a good example. Man-to-man the US's automatic rifles were just as good as the AK47s. Also, the middle-Eastern fighters had a tactical advantage through knowing the terrain better and had a non-interruptible supply chain. Big cannons do nothing against fighters hiding in caves.

The invader can only be held accountable if someone other than them obtains the power to punish them

This is what public and media manipulation is for. Arouse public sentiment to the point of overthrowing a ruling invader. Then demand recompense.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

The invader can only be held accountable if someone other than them obtains the power to punish them. Japan fended off everyone that came for years despite being far behind the rest of the world technologically when they were isolated. No one liked their methods but you can't deny they worked. Sometimes you have to politely ask people to leave when they show up and if they refuse you have to kill them. You never want it to come to that but that's how it is if you want to keep your culture intact. The natives had the numbers and could have driven out the white man even with the technological gap if they seized the opportunity. The technological gap isn't all it's cracked up to be, if you need a modern example look at the Middle East where the natives have been defending themselves with AK-47s against the most technologically advanced fighting force the world has ever seen.



I want all of that too. All of those dealings with the police have happened to me too. Yet I'm told this is impossible and I'm privileged. They fail to understand that it's being done to everyone and expending effort in-fighting only serves to keep those in power in positions of power. I was never taught racism, in fact my Dad pretty much beat it out of us and taught up never to judge a man by the color of his skin. I don't judge black people by their color, I judge them by their actions and how they choose to present themselves in public. When I see certain black people that dress a certain way, talk a certain way, act a certain way I do pay more attention to them. I do that because people like that have robbed me, pulled guns on me, beaten me, and acted racist towards me. I fear them as much as I fear the police.

I'm not going to unlearn to fear them because they are dangerous people and yes they do deserve to be punished for their actions. You know exactly what I'm talking about and I'm sick of people trying to pretend these people don't exist. Yes these people aren't exclusive to the black race but they are a problem within those communities and the lifestyle is promoted in the media. I'm tired of people claiming it isn't there fault as if they don't wake up every morning and make decisions for themselves. If they really want to change the environment they live in they'd work towards changing it or moving away from it. Don't tell me it's impossible because I've done both and I assure you no one was there to help me nor did my so-called privilege have anything to do with it.

It's like the argument about the police profiling them. The police profile everybody. If you're white and want to get the attention of the police just grow your hair out and start dressing like a hippy. You'll get plenty of attention and if you're lucky they might even plant some evidence in your car the next time you get pulled over. The police are not profiling blacks because they're black, they're profiling blacks because of how they present themselves. Dress like an adult and don't advertise the fact that you participate in criminal acts and you'll have far less problems with them. It isn't 100%, some cops will just pull you over on a dark street at 3am and beat the fuck out of you for no reason. I know because it happened to me once. The ones that beat my ass were white and so was I.

It's a shitty world but blaming other people dealing with it isn't going to solve any problems. Gathering together, singing/dancing, and talking of peace doesn't bring about change. It's a nice idea/gesture but problems are not solved that way. If you're talking about revolution at some point you're talking about arming people and fighting for it. If you've decided you don't want to include some people in your revolution, like whites, don't expect them to help. If you're white and fight with people like that in a revolution don't expect to be a first class citizen by the time it's over with. If you're afraid to fight against the US military because of all their toys just shut up, pay your taxes, and deal with the fact that it's just going to keep getting worse every year. None of them care about you past your money and labor. As long as you're a good little consumer buying the latest iPhone and not complaining about the robbery that is taxes they're fine with you complaining all you want. You're just going to vote for one of their people anyway and if the results are not what they expect they'll just fix the election.

This is a novel now but I want to add one last thing and really stress this point: There are just two classes of people on this Earth. There is the class in power that rules over the poor and there are people like us, the poor. The ruling class wants two main things right now. They want to become immortal through the use of technology and they want to reduce the total population because they only need so many slaves. I've heard numbers thrown around like 5 million and 500 million. There are 7 billion on Earth right now so a lot of us poor people have to go. They've done a good job slowing things down with abortion, birth control, and various other methods but it isn't enough. A purge is coming and it's coming soon.

If you think I'm crazy or wrong just go seek out the information yourself. It's harder to find now because so much of the internet is censored but it's still out there. I suggest starting out with some stones in Georgia and going from there. All you need to do is look up speeches and quotes from the mega-rich and you'll find they all agree with what is written on those stones. This is why all instigation of in-fighting is highly suspect in my mind and I'm not going to get on board with it. I know who the enemy is and he's not the black guy down town of the hillbilly in the mountains. Anyone not in the 1% is probably a good person and if he's not on board with what I'm talking about then he's just been misled like most. You can't blame them they've been fed bullshit since the Government got ahold of them when they were 4 years old. It's hard to convince someone they're wrong when you're dealing with 20 years of television and 18 years of Government schooling telling them they're right.

So what rocks in Georgia are these? What are other sources?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]