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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Police Brutality Thread

A top-down approach is only half a solution. One must also factor in the bottom-up approach otherwise the top-down version will never work at the grass-roots level.

For sure, and that's where those imaginary lines matter. Because that would look different depending upon which of those imaginary lines you happen to live in. The approach, at a minimum.
 
Am I programmed or able to analyze data and make an informed decision for myself? Who said I'm listening to these public health experts without doing my own research?
I don't know exactly what you believe personally but you cannot be pro-lockdown and pro-protest against police. If you were someone criticizing people for going to the beach or wanting to keep their business open, and then now supporting mass protests against police - then you're not thinking for yourself. It may seem like you are but really someone else is making decisions for you.

Allowing society to continue to function.
Not only is this BS but it's extremely vague. At least with the BS of corona hype they were specific: shut down your business and stop working because you might facilitate the transfer of a virus that will kill old people.
So if nobody gave a shit about George Floyd then society wouldn't continue to function? You're making no sense.
Police killings of black people is actually on the decline. So there is no epidemic or emergency issue with police brutality. Again if you think there is - then you're not thinking for yourself.

The possibility of grandma dieing, with the new set of variables, is less worse than the alternative. I just answered this earlier.
See you just say "the alternative" (vague). What's the alternative? Because grandma dying is a very real, tangible event that we don't want.
So what exactly is worth granny dying? Don't you care about old people?
Or are you in the same boat as me when I say that I never bought into the corona-chan hype? (i.e. death rate close to regular influenza therefore not deserving of quarantines).

This is where the cognitive dissonance comes in: how can someone support vague anti-police protests but not support anti-lockdown protests demanding the re-opening of businesses?

I'm met with a mixture of emotions watching this all unfold. First is just stunned amusement like the ridiculousness of reality is so funny. And then it's like a kind of bewildered concern - that so many people can be so easily led and manipulated.
People are going to have to begin looking at the results of what's happening - not just the reasons and justifications.

If you could find the vandalism to the Lincoln Memorial, that too would be similar to how far some of the people have strayed from what that the movement is all about - purposeful or unwittingly.
Lincoln was actually pretty racist (but so was everyone back then). He made plenty of white supremacist comments over the years, didn't want black people in the northern states at all, devised a plan to possibly ship black people to Liberia and said that the states could keep their slaves if they stayed with the Union.

 
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Related



What led to the conditions that black people find themselves in?
 
I don't know exactly what you believe personally but you cannot be pro-lockdown and pro-protest against police. If you were someone criticizing people for going to the beach or wanting to keep their business open, and then now supporting mass protests against police - then you're not thinking for yourself. It may seem like you are but really someone else is making decisions for you.

Yes, you can land somewhere inbetween. Again, everything isn't so abstract. Also, the protest is about more than just being against police, but I digress there for the time being.

I never was criticizing people for going to the beaches or wanting to keep their businesses open. I've always thought there was a correct amount of mitigation, no states could get it perfect but I think most did a decent job hitting a moving target. Again, I would think talking to you for the brief period of time in here, you would understand the decisions to mitigate were based on data constantly in flux, and in the beginning it was unprecedented so mitigation factors took a more conservative approach because no one really knew to expect.

And even though I wasn't criticizing (because I keep an open mind and try to view things from all points of view, as best I can), I can completely understand how the data supported stronger mitigation factors early on and then more relaxed as time went on, especially where we are current day, and the threat of potential societal collapse if the protests were not allowed to be continued. Those are variables that cannot be ignored. Society requires the majority to abide and agree in order to function.

What made sense 2 months ago, may not make sense 1 month, 8 days ago, 6 days ago, 2.5 days ago or 13 hours ago.

Again, one constant: change.

then you're not thinking for yourself. It may seem like you are but really someone else is making decisions for you.

I promise you, the only person thinking for me is myself. My thoughts, views and opinions are evidence and data based, and they are my own. Scientific evidence based decisions are what guides me, my friend. Not what some reporter says on the news, I find all mainstream media outlets are biased and just further their own agenda a good portion of the time.

See you just say "the alternative" (vague). What's the alternative?

I just explained above, the alternative should have been blatantly obvious - societal collapse, more and more violent riots, property damage, community damage, human life loss, etc.

Or are you in the same boat as me when I say that I never bought into the corona-chan hype? (i.e. death rate close to regular influenza therefore not deserving of quarantines

I'm somewhat in the same boat. I always knew the fatality rate was incredibly low, which obviously means over 95 percent of everyone survived. I always had a hunch that once antibody testing was widely available, the mortality (not fatality, fatality rate is a simple calculation constantly in flux with number of infected divided by number of deaths, so that will constantly change - I find it funny when people keep saying the fact that it keeps changing was some type of conspiracy, it is supposed to keep changing until a majority of people infected but not survived or died is realized) rate would drop even more (I based this decision on how, very early on, Iceland was able to test almost all of it's citizens and similar information was found.) But, because the r naught was so high, I did support mitigation factors proportional to that - especially until more research and data could be gained. There was no threatening of societal collapse when the pandemic hit, so the mitigation factors then were justified for the variables in the moment.

It never works to have these absolute, binary type viewpoints because it will inevitably always lead to ignoring certain data or variables and irrationally dismissing them because they don't further said viewpoint.

Life just doesn't work like that, it's almost always going to lie somewhere in a spectrum between absolutes.

Lincoln was actually pretty racist

Oh for sure, I'm sure everyone back then was racist to some extent. I mean, early on black people weren't even counted as one whole person - so yeah, that's somewhat inevitable. And that's another thing, when someone asks where all the anger comes - wouldn't you be angry as well when you learn about that as a child and not understand why your family and ancestors were treated so bad just because of the color of your skin? At least some people did things to try to make that change.
 
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It is not clear who was responsible for the vandalism seen in the meme.


Thank you for finding someone that debunked it. For my part, I passed it along without looking deeper (a common problem I have). For those concerned, I don't do it out of trolling or attempting to provoke, I'm simply lazy a lot of the time. Shame on me.

EDIT: I encourage everyone to fact check things if they suspect falsehood. Not just on what I post (no need to babysit me, I'm responsible for my actions), but as a general practice. Don't take things at face value all the time.

My favorite part of what your article stated:

By the time the meme circulated in early June 2020, all sixteen sites (including the Shaw Memorial) had already been restored:


As to not knowing who did it...isn't that always the case with vandalism where there aren't CCTV? Could be either side.
 
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Again, I would think talking to you for the brief period of time in here, you would understand the decisions to mitigate were based on data constantly in flux, and in the beginning it was unprecedented so mitigation factors took a more conservative approach because no one really knew to expect.
Yeah so then if they're encouraging protests then they should also be willing to open up all business and industries - which is not happening - and is arguably much more important.
One of the reasons that people are so bored, frustrated and willing to take to the streets is because many have been unfairly cooped up for months and had their livelihoods either suspended, crippled or removed.
So this proves that this whole situation is not based on doing what's best for the community or compassion for humans.
They're continuing to punish good people trying to live their lives and instead seemingly protecting people who are destroying property and causing widespread social unrest (it's almost like the country is being taken down from within).

I find it funny when people keep saying the fact that it keeps changing was some type of conspiracy
It's when the data changes or is revised and then the rules and legislation don't follow suit. The entire justification for these lockdowns was largely based on the models from Neil Ferguson and Imperial College. Not only did Ferguson step down after violating his own recommended rules (proving he never thought they were that serious) but the data in the models used turned out to be completely unscientific and inaccurate. So yeah the fact that they used these dodgy models in the first place and that the original fear is still used to enforce oppressive rules is apparent enough for many people to suspect a nefarious or at least deceptive agenda.

Oh for sure, I'm sure everyone back then was racist to some extent. I mean, early on black people weren't even counted as one whole person - so yeah, that's somewhat inevitable. And that's another thing, when someone asks where all the anger comes - wouldn't you be angry as well when you learn about that as a child and not understand why your family and ancestors were treated so bad just because of the color of your skin? At least some people did things to try to make that change.
Being angry at the past for things that nobody alive today is responsible for is stupid. White men were the first to outlaw slavery globally but that fact is not celebrated as a triumph of white people becoming enlightened and fixing errors of the past. No, even though things changed they must still be demonized. I'm not angry at German people today because my ancestors were racially exterminated. I have a lot to be thankful for and this might be an unpopular truth but sometimes bad decisions can lead to positive outcomes. For example you could look at it completely differently. The black people in the US are born into a situation where there is so much potential, remember how badly so many people around the world who have nothing are trying to gain entry into the US. Black culture is celebrated in the US and they can make millions of dollars (in Jay-Z's case, much more) just from singing, rapping, coming up with a silly dance and posting it online etc. And you know who are some of the biggest consumers of black media? White kids lol... They have for a while now been afforded equal rights and in some cases more rights than white people (affirmative action for eg). So someone could be thankful for any positives within their lives and view their adversity as necessary lessons for soul development - or they can blame the past and other people and only focus on the negatives.

Man who claimed George Floyd and Derek Chauvin "bumped heads" changes story
I'm more inclined to believe his first recount which he was probably then pressured to change after the story didn't fit the narrative. But who knows.
It is a bit suspicious to me that those 2 knew each other, the club they worked at was burned down along with the local police precinct (including a ton of evidence).
 
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@JGrimez You definitely have some unique ways of looking at things.

I don't feel it's appropriate to engage in this specific conversation anymore. I wish you the best.
 
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The police here in the our tourist town of Gatlinburg in the great smoky mountains ,shot my friend in front of his mother, for threatening to kill his own self..THEY DO WHAT THEY WANT.PERIOD. SUX
 
The police here in the our tourist town of Gatlinburg in the great smoky mountains ,shot my friend in front of his mother, for threatening to kill his own self..THEY DO WHAT THEY WANT.PERIOD. SUX

Two of my friends were murdered by our local police. My parents told me stories of the local police killing everyone involved with the cocaine trade here when the then new sheriff took over. After they eliminated all those dealers they took control of all drug trade in the area and have stayed in control for decades. The local police have pulled me out of a car and beaten me twice in my adult life for no reason other than they were bored. No one cares about these people because they aren't the right color to get ratings. The police don't target people because of the color of their skin they target people they know can't afford to fight in court. The only reason they don't bother me anymore is because I paid their toll and they know I have a good lawyer now.

I'm all for reforming the police but I can't stand with people that loot and want to be celebrated for social justice. I know what a color revolution looks like when I see it. I've watched my own Government do it to countless nations. Now I'm watching half my own Government do it to our own. They yell Russia russia russia while taking money from China. Not that the other side is any better. If this situation keeps going the way it is you're going to see people that have been prepping for Civil War start showing up and then the real bloodshed will start. I prefer to avoid that but it doesn't look like this is going to calm back down this time. The closer we get to November the worse it'll get.

Watch this video, listen to what this man has to say and you'll see it has been going on here in America for decades:

I've posted this presentation before and I don't think anyone ever sits through it. There is an interesting part where he talks about subverting a nation through the education system. It's worth your time. I look at anyone that constantly pushes the race issue with the upmost suspicion. They're either pushing an agenda of hate or have bought into the lies. I come from the area of the country with the most black people by population. The black people and white people here have always gotten along fine. I've always gotten along with the black people in the cities I've lived in. Racists are openly mocked and only run their mouth in the privacy of their own homes or clubs. Racism is a non-issue here despite being an area where slavery was practiced by the elites. The black people here don't blame the white people for slavery because they know 99% of the white folks were too poor to have owned slaves in those days. Most of those families couldn't even buy a horse.

I find it odd that when slavery is discussed no one talks about the price of keeping human slaves in those days. You had to be in the 1% to afford them, house them, and own enough land to justify needing them in the first place. They were traded like livestock and imported from overseas through NYC and other big Northern ports. If you want to blame someone for slavery blame the elite families because they're the same families that were importing them back in those days. All the rich have done is slide blame for slavery on to the working class white families that had nothing to do with it or weren't even in the country at that time.
 
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The police here in the our tourist town of Gatlinburg in the great smoky mountains ,shot my friend in front of his mother, for threatening to kill his own self..THEY DO WHAT THEY WANT.PERIOD. SUX
I am so sorry about your friend.

Was that the one where the body camera footage was released? the kid with the knife?
 
In that footage, the kid came out of a bathroom after his mother called the police for him threatening suicide. He was walking slowly toward the cop with the knife held out. The cop shot him six times in the chest.

But the kid was white. Not protest worthy.
 
I am so sorry about your friend.

Was that the one where the body camera footage was released? the kid with the knife?
No, name was sam talbot.but go to YouTube and put in sevier county cop.has panic attack if u wanna see how our cops act, and watch till the end,where they give the gun BACK TO THE cop having a panic attack.you will die!
 
I just found this and thought this was so great, I wanted to share it in this thread:

So what has protesting accomplished?

๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพWithin 10 days of sustained protests:
Minneapolis bans use of choke holds.
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพCharges are upgraded against Officer Chauvin, and his accomplices are arrested and charged.
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพDallas adopts a "duty to intervene" rule that requires officers to stop other cops who are engaging in inappropriate use of force.
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพNew Jerseyโ€™s attorney general said the state will update its use-of-force guidelines for the first time in two decades.
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพIn Maryland, a bipartisan work group of state lawmakers announced a police reform work group.
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพLos Angeles City Council introduces motion to reduce LAPDโ€™s $1.8 billion operating budget.
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพMBTA in Boston agrees to stop using public buses to transport police officers to protests.
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพPolice brutality captured on cameras leads to near-immediate suspensions and firings of officers in several cities (i.e., Buffalo, Ft. Lauderdale).
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพMonuments celebrating confederates are removed in cities in Virginia, Alabama, and other states.
๐Ÿ‘‰๐ŸพStreet in front of the White House is renamed "Black Lives Matter Plaza.โ€
Military forces begin to withdraw from D.C.

Then, there's all the other stuff that's hard to measure:
๐Ÿ’“The really difficult public and private conversations that are happening about race and privilege.
๐Ÿ’“The realizations some white people are coming to about racism and the role of policing in this country.
๐Ÿ’“The self-reflection.
๐Ÿ’“The internal battles exploding within organizations over issues that have been simmering or ignored for a long time. Some organizations will end as a result, others will be forever changed or replaced with something stronger and fairer.

Globally:
๐ŸŒŽ Protests against racial inequality sparked by the police killing of George Floyd are taking place all over the world.
๐ŸŒŽ Rallies and memorials have been held in cities across Europe, as well as in Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Australia, and New Zealand.
๐ŸŒŽ As the US contends with its second week of protests, issues of racism, police brutality, and oppression have been brought to light across the globe.
๐ŸŒŽ People all over the world understand that their own fights for human rights, for equality and fairness, will become so much more difficult to win if we are going to lose America as the place where 'I have a dream' is a real and universal political program," Wolfgang Ischinger, a former German ambassador to the US, told the New Yorker.
๐ŸŒŽ In France, protesters marched holding signs that said "I can't breathe" to signify both the words of Floyd, and the last words of Adama Traorรฉ, a 24-year-old black man who was subdued by police officers and gasped the sentence before he died outside Paris in 2016.
๐ŸŒŽ Cities across Europe have come together after the death of George Floyd:
โœŠ๐Ÿฝ In Amsterdam, an estimated 10,000 people filled the Dam square on Monday, holding signs and shouting popular chants like "Black lives matter," and "No justice, no peace."
โœŠ๐Ÿฝ In Germany, people gathered in multiple locations throughout Berlin to demand justice for Floyd and fight against police brutality.
โœŠ๐Ÿพ A mural dedicated to Floyd was also spray-painted on a stretch of wall in Berlin that once divided the German capital during the Cold War.
โœŠ๐Ÿฟ In Ireland, protesters held a peaceful demonstration outside of Belfast City Hall, and others gathered outside of the US embassy in Dublin.
โœŠ๐ŸฟIn Italy, protesters gathered and marched with signs that said "Stop killing black people," "Say his name," and "We will not be silent."
โœŠ๐Ÿพ In Spain, people gathered to march and hold up signs throughout Barcelona and Madrid.
โœŠ๐Ÿพ In Athens, Greece, protesters took to the streets to collectively hold up a sign that read "I can't breathe."
โœŠ๐Ÿพ In Brussels, protesters were seen sitting in a peaceful demonstration in front of an opera house in the center of the city.
โœŠ๐ŸพIn Denmark, protesters were heard chanting "No justice, no peace!" throughout the streets of Copenhagen, while others gathered outside the US embassy.
โœŠ๐Ÿพ In Canada, protesters were also grieving for Regis Korchinski-Paquet, a 29-year-old black woman who died on Wednesday after falling from her balcony during a police investigation at her building.
โœŠ๐Ÿพ And in New Zealand, roughly 2,000 people marched to the US embassy in Auckland, chanting and carrying signs demanding justice.
๐Ÿ’ Memorials have been built for Floyd around the world, too. In Mexico City, portraits of him were hung outside the US embassy with roses, candles, and signs.
๐Ÿ’ In Poland, candles and flowers were laid out next to photos of Floyd outside the US consulate.
๐Ÿ’ And in Syria, two artists created a mural depicting Floyd in the northwestern town of Binnish, "on a wall destroyed by military planes."

Before the assassination of George Floyd some of you were able to say whatever the hell you wanted and the world didn't say anything to you...

THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT, AN AWAKENING...MANY OF YOU ARE BEING EXPOSED FOR WHO YOU REALLY ARE. #readthatagain
Don't wake up tomorrow on the wrong side of this issue. Its not too late to SAY, "maybe I need to look at this from a different perspective. Maybe I don't know what its like to be Black in America... Maybe, just maybe, I have been taught wrong."

There is still so much work to be done. It's been a really dark, raw week. This could still end badly. But all we can do is keep doing the work.

Keep protesting.

WE ARE NOT TRYING TO START A RACE WAR; WE ARE PROTESTING TO END IT,
PEACEFULLY.

How beautiful is that?
ALL LIVES CANNOT MATTER UNTIL YOU INCLUDE BLACK LIVES.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP SYSTEMIC RACISM & POLICE BRUTALITY.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN BLACK PEOPLE ARE DYING AND ALL YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IS THE LOOTING.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN YOU ALLOW CHILDREN TO BE CAGED, VETERANS TO GO HOMELESS, AND POOR FAMILIES TO GO HUNGRY & LOSE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE.

DO ALL LIVES MATTER? YES. BUT RIGHT NOW, ONLY BLACK LIVES ARE BEING TARGETED, JAILED, AND KILLED EN MASSE- SO THAT'S WHO WE'RE FOCUSING ON.

๐Ÿ–ค๐Ÿ–ค๐Ÿ–คBLACK LIVES MATTER๐Ÿ–ค๐Ÿ–ค๐Ÿ–ค
IF YOU CAN'T SEE THIS, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

***This is not anything more than a basic human rights issue. The fact that we still have segregated schools with minority schools getting underfunded and inexperienced teachers is a massive problem. The fact that our prison and incarceration system is still a form of a slavery loophole in the 13th amendment is a massive problem. The fact that we still have housing projects and segregated cities like Chicago and Milwaukee is a massive problem. Thereโ€™s so many more issues I could list. But there needs to be change coming from inside the senate and congress. Thatโ€™s why we march. And will continue to until thereโ€™s some real change that happens. ****
 
Being angry at the past for things that nobody alive today is responsible for is stupid. White men were the first to outlaw slavery globally but that fact is not celebrated as a triumph of white people becoming enlightened and fixing errors of the past. No, even though things changed they must still be demonized. I'm not angry at German people today because my ancestors were racially exterminated. I have a lot to be thankful for and this might be an unpopular truth but sometimes bad decisions can lead to positive outcomes. For example you could look at it completely differently. The black people in the US are born into a situation where there is so much potential, remember how badly so many people around the world who have nothing are trying to gain entry into the US. Black culture is celebrated in the US and they can make millions of dollars (in Jay-Z's case, much more) just from singing, rapping, coming up with a silly dance and posting it online etc. And you know who are some of the biggest consumers of black media? White kids lol... They have for a while now been afforded equal rights and in some cases more rights than white people (affirmative action for eg). So someone could be thankful for any positives within their lives and view their adversity as necessary lessons for soul development - or they can blame the past and other people and only focus on the negatives.

Wow man. Just wow. I feel like I just sat through 100 Thanksgiving dinners with my relatives, all at once.

This place is such a left wing echo chamber. Right wing viewpoints constantly getting shutdown and censored!
 
Obviously we all agree that slavery is bad. If that's what you got out of what I said then you're either ignorant or intellectually dishonest.
In fact I often shine light on the roughly 40 million people (including 10 million children) who are slaves TODAY.

Do you think black people born in America have more opportunities than if they had been born in Africa?
Do you regret that there is an African-American population at all?
 
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