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Police Brutality Thread

Do you think black people born in America have more opportunities than if they had been born in Africa?

That's kind of absurd since America was built by slaves , so really any opportunity they could benefit from now is of their own creation, more than it is mine or yours.

Also, If I kidnap a homeless woman, rape her, force her and her offspring to work for my family for generations, then I set her great-great-great-great-great grandchild free and give her a job at McDonald's ... no, I don't think the sacrifice was worth it.

I think if America and other nations hadn't exploited it's people and natural resources, Africa could have been just as prosperous as the United States...
 
All of America was not built on slaves, dude.

Parts of it were, that's pretty much what the Civil War was about...
And if you read history, Slavery lost !

How much do you figure the average American owes due to this, concetely?

What concretely would even the score?

When do you believe (if ever) can America move forward and put this in it's past?
 
All of America was not built on slaves, dude.

Parts of it were, that's pretty much what the Civil War was about...
And if you read history, Slavery lost !

How much do you figure the average American owes due to this, concetely?

What concretely would even the score?

When do you believe (if ever) can America move forward and put this in it's past?
Exactly. Reparations are a really bad idea. The money would be completely wasted, it would never be enough, and not everyone that is a Black American has or had ancestors who were slaves, and the majority of European Americans never owned slaves.
 
I just found this and thought this was so great, I wanted to share it in this thread:

So what has protesting accomplished?

👉🏾Within 10 days of sustained protests:
Minneapolis bans use of choke holds.
👉🏾Charges are upgraded against Officer Chauvin, and his accomplices are arrested and charged.
👉🏾Dallas adopts a "duty to intervene" rule that requires officers to stop other cops who are engaging in inappropriate use of force.
👉🏾New Jersey’s attorney general said the state will update its use-of-force guidelines for the first time in two decades.
👉🏾In Maryland, a bipartisan work group of state lawmakers announced a police reform work group.
👉🏾Los Angeles City Council introduces motion to reduce LAPD’s $1.8 billion operating budget.
👉🏾MBTA in Boston agrees to stop using public buses to transport police officers to protests.
👉🏾Police brutality captured on cameras leads to near-immediate suspensions and firings of officers in several cities (i.e., Buffalo, Ft. Lauderdale).
👉🏾Monuments celebrating confederates are removed in cities in Virginia, Alabama, and other states.
👉🏾Street in front of the White House is renamed "Black Lives Matter Plaza.”
Military forces begin to withdraw from D.C.

Then, there's all the other stuff that's hard to measure:
💓The really difficult public and private conversations that are happening about race and privilege.
💓The realizations some white people are coming to about racism and the role of policing in this country.
💓The self-reflection.
💓The internal battles exploding within organizations over issues that have been simmering or ignored for a long time. Some organizations will end as a result, others will be forever changed or replaced with something stronger and fairer.

Globally:
🌎 Protests against racial inequality sparked by the police killing of George Floyd are taking place all over the world.
🌎 Rallies and memorials have been held in cities across Europe, as well as in Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Australia, and New Zealand.
🌎 As the US contends with its second week of protests, issues of racism, police brutality, and oppression have been brought to light across the globe.
🌎 People all over the world understand that their own fights for human rights, for equality and fairness, will become so much more difficult to win if we are going to lose America as the place where 'I have a dream' is a real and universal political program," Wolfgang Ischinger, a former German ambassador to the US, told the New Yorker.
🌎 In France, protesters marched holding signs that said "I can't breathe" to signify both the words of Floyd, and the last words of Adama Traoré, a 24-year-old black man who was subdued by police officers and gasped the sentence before he died outside Paris in 2016.
🌎 Cities across Europe have come together after the death of George Floyd:
✊🏽 In Amsterdam, an estimated 10,000 people filled the Dam square on Monday, holding signs and shouting popular chants like "Black lives matter," and "No justice, no peace."
✊🏽 In Germany, people gathered in multiple locations throughout Berlin to demand justice for Floyd and fight against police brutality.
✊🏾 A mural dedicated to Floyd was also spray-painted on a stretch of wall in Berlin that once divided the German capital during the Cold War.
✊🏿 In Ireland, protesters held a peaceful demonstration outside of Belfast City Hall, and others gathered outside of the US embassy in Dublin.
✊🏿In Italy, protesters gathered and marched with signs that said "Stop killing black people," "Say his name," and "We will not be silent."
✊🏾 In Spain, people gathered to march and hold up signs throughout Barcelona and Madrid.
✊🏾 In Athens, Greece, protesters took to the streets to collectively hold up a sign that read "I can't breathe."
✊🏾 In Brussels, protesters were seen sitting in a peaceful demonstration in front of an opera house in the center of the city.
✊🏾In Denmark, protesters were heard chanting "No justice, no peace!" throughout the streets of Copenhagen, while others gathered outside the US embassy.
✊🏾 In Canada, protesters were also grieving for Regis Korchinski-Paquet, a 29-year-old black woman who died on Wednesday after falling from her balcony during a police investigation at her building.
✊🏾 And in New Zealand, roughly 2,000 people marched to the US embassy in Auckland, chanting and carrying signs demanding justice.
💐 Memorials have been built for Floyd around the world, too. In Mexico City, portraits of him were hung outside the US embassy with roses, candles, and signs.
💐 In Poland, candles and flowers were laid out next to photos of Floyd outside the US consulate.
💐 And in Syria, two artists created a mural depicting Floyd in the northwestern town of Binnish, "on a wall destroyed by military planes."

Before the assassination of George Floyd some of you were able to say whatever the hell you wanted and the world didn't say anything to you...

THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT, AN AWAKENING...MANY OF YOU ARE BEING EXPOSED FOR WHO YOU REALLY ARE. #readthatagain
Don't wake up tomorrow on the wrong side of this issue. Its not too late to SAY, "maybe I need to look at this from a different perspective. Maybe I don't know what its like to be Black in America... Maybe, just maybe, I have been taught wrong."

There is still so much work to be done. It's been a really dark, raw week. This could still end badly. But all we can do is keep doing the work.

Keep protesting.

WE ARE NOT TRYING TO START A RACE WAR; WE ARE PROTESTING TO END IT,
PEACEFULLY.

How beautiful is that?
ALL LIVES CANNOT MATTER UNTIL YOU INCLUDE BLACK LIVES.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP SYSTEMIC RACISM & POLICE BRUTALITY.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN BLACK PEOPLE ARE DYING AND ALL YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IS THE LOOTING.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN YOU ALLOW CHILDREN TO BE CAGED, VETERANS TO GO HOMELESS, AND POOR FAMILIES TO GO HUNGRY & LOSE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE.

DO ALL LIVES MATTER? YES. BUT RIGHT NOW, ONLY BLACK LIVES ARE BEING TARGETED, JAILED, AND KILLED EN MASSE- SO THAT'S WHO WE'RE FOCUSING ON.

🖤🖤🖤BLACK LIVES MATTER🖤🖤🖤
IF YOU CAN'T SEE THIS, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

***This is not anything more than a basic human rights issue. The fact that we still have segregated schools with minority schools getting underfunded and inexperienced teachers is a massive problem. The fact that our prison and incarceration system is still a form of a slavery loophole in the 13th amendment is a massive problem. The fact that we still have housing projects and segregated cities like Chicago and Milwaukee is a massive problem. There’s so many more issues I could list. But there needs to be change coming from inside the senate and congress. That’s why we march. And will continue to until there’s some real change that happens. ****
Yeah they are really protesting, caring, and helping black Americans when they riot, loot, commit arson, and destroy entire districts of large American cities, and infecting themselves and others with the Chinese disease. 8)

10k people in Amsterdam is really not that many people when you factor in the entire population of Amsterdam and suburbs, and the large population density of the province of North Holland, the large population of NL as a whole, and the very large population of Benelux.

As for the other European countries and cities, the protests are not that large and most people if they are European and not African are staying at home in quarantine.

 
How much do you figure the average American owes due to this, concetely?

What concretely would even the score?

When do you believe (if ever) can America move forward and put this in it's past?

This is another issue I have. People claim there needs to be reparations. We have riots now screaming for abolishment of police, tearing down historical statues. 'What price needs to be paid?' is the question I come to. Other than 'not this (todays society)', what is the desired future? Conservatives fear a rerun of 'affirmative action' whereby a race is elevated and given benefits or rights above all others unfairly in the name of ...what, catching up and paying past sins? I'm not saying any race (the black ones that matter, for a start) deserve any rights or privileges above anyone else, nor that it is the direction we will go. It's possible, and that stirs fears until an actual vision is provided - some idea of what society SHOULD be like, then we can evaluate what it takes to get there. But for now, all I'm hearing from the left is 'not this'. The left needs to say what future they want rather than
 
Theres also the fact that African tribal leaders were profiting from the slave trade by selling off their own people to the European traders...

It still goes on today. Tribes and primitive North and Sub-Saharan African people -no this is not to say most Africans either Northern or Sub-Saharan are like this but many of the tribes still practise slavery, bush medicine with a witch doctor, genital mutilation of boys and girls just as Aboriginal Australians do- enslave each other or capture slaves and sell them to Arabs and it has been going on for centuries and the Arab slave trade started long before any of the European slave trades did and continues today in 2020. Islam and the Arabic/Levantine countries excuse this or do not care, but so does the racist terrorist black supremacist group black lives matter.

 
I just found this and thought this was so great, I wanted to share it in this thread:

So what has protesting accomplished?

👉🏾Los Angeles City Council introduces motion to reduce LAPD’s $1.8 billion operating budget.
👉🏾MBTA in Boston agrees to stop using public buses to transport police officers to protests.
👉🏾Monuments celebrating confederates are removed in cities in Virginia, Alabama, and other states.
👉🏾Street in front of the White House is renamed "Black Lives Matter Plaza.”
Military forces begin to withdraw from D.C.

The lines I omitted, I agree with, so that's why I left them out = no reason to discuss. Of the points I quoted, I have questions.

What does cutting PD budgets accomplish? What is the desired goal here? It isn't to correct an issue (real or perceived), but to abolish a public service. And where does that take us? To Seattle, with blocks portioned off, policed by a militia, and a confusing statement of 'seceding' and/or 'list of demands' of local, state, and national gov't. But what does it accomplish - for the local citizens regardless of where they stand on any topic, for local businesses now being extorted? If the stated goal is to end systemic racism, perhaps the belief is one must abolish what exists and rebuild anew, rather than reform what exists. So, then, what is the plan to replace it with something better?

What does the MBTA decision improve? Cause cops to a-take police vehicles to protests and give ripe targets for attack, b-take personal vehicles to protests and risk personal loss, c-not go to protests at all and let the protests turn to riots and people attack each other and buildings without repurcussions. Where is the positive in this beyond 'solidarity' of MBTA against cops?

What does demolishing historic statues do to change injustice? It's history. To attempt to erase it means you risk repeating it. To keep it, put it in a corner if you don't want it out in public view, perhaps I can understand. First, does anyone recognize WHY those statues are there in the first place? At the time, the country was still needing healing by honoring leaders for both sides. Everyone says the Civil War was about slavery. Yeah, it was a big point, but not the only point. A lot of it was also states rights. Most of the military leaders didn't necessarily agree with 'their side' when it came to slavery, but they would support their state over the federal direction. States honored their dedication, not their belief in rights, with statues. If anyone reads some history, or takes a narrated tour of Gettysburg, you'll find Lee was against slavery. And yet, today he still is viewed as a champion of slavery simply for leading the southern armies. There is a shit ton of history at play that people are unaware of (most likely) or choose to ignore (possible) that is not as simple as 'every southerner wanted (and still wants) slavery, and the generals were slave champions'. History, and southerners today, can refute that belief with facts, but nobody is listening. Tear down the statues! We had a round removing statues a few years ago. Right now, mobs are tearing them down, and causing themselves physcial harm in the process. For what? What is the gain other then release of outrage? How does this help anyone or anything going forward?

Renaming a street achieves what? A reminder everyday going forward? How much was achieved by putting an MLK boulevard in every city? Not saying it was a bad move, just asking what has it done for anyone or anything? Where's the gain? What societal wrong is now gone?


THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT, AN AWAKENING...MANY OF YOU ARE BEING EXPOSED FOR WHO YOU REALLY ARE. #readthatagain
Don't wake up tomorrow on the wrong side of this issue. Its not too late to SAY, "maybe I need to look at this from a different perspective. Maybe I don't know what its like to be Black in America... Maybe, just maybe, I have been taught wrong."

All possible. And I can entertain the thought of destruction of today's world is required in order to clear the mind and space for a better way. I'm still waiting for any definition of what is a better way of being.


ALL LIVES CANNOT MATTER UNTIL YOU INCLUDE BLACK LIVES.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN YOU DO NOTHING TO STOP SYSTEMIC RACISM & POLICE BRUTALITY.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN BLACK PEOPLE ARE DYING AND ALL YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IS THE LOOTING.
YOU CANNOT SAY 'ALL LIVES MATTER' WHEN YOU ALLOW CHILDREN TO BE CAGED, VETERANS TO GO HOMELESS, AND POOR FAMILIES TO GO HUNGRY & LOSE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE.

DO ALL LIVES MATTER? YES. BUT RIGHT NOW, ONLY BLACK LIVES ARE BEING TARGETED, JAILED, AND KILLED EN MASSE- SO THAT'S WHO WE'RE FOCUSING ON.

What happens when someone says 'all lives matter'?

They get fired. Labelled racist. I can provide links on both if needed, but the fact is unless a person gets behind this agenda, they are being persecuted for doing what they believe is being fair to ALL, not just a select portion of the population.

All the 'YOU CANNOT SAY' items....to fix those issues, maybe citizens need to focus on exactly WHAT needs fixing beyond general concepts like 'racism and police brutality' or 'hungry and homeless'. Specifically, what laws or societal norms, are driving these things and HOW do we fix them, WHAT do we need to replace them with? Nobody will argue against 'racism is bad', but what is causing this 'racism' and how is it fixed? Because right now, the 'looting' is causing real damage and isn't fixing a damn thing.

***This is not anything more than a basic human rights issue. The fact that we still have segregated schools with minority schools getting underfunded and inexperienced teachers is a massive problem. The fact that our prison and incarceration system is still a form of a slavery loophole in the 13th amendment is a massive problem. The fact that we still have housing projects and segregated cities like Chicago and Milwaukee is a massive problem. There’s so many more issues I could list. But there needs to be change coming from inside the senate and congress. That’s why we march. And will continue to until there’s some real change that happens. ****

Ok. This is better. It points to specific areas of concern (segregated schools, under funding; segregated housing). I've not heard of ANY of this from MSM or protesters. But if we want to focus in on areas of concern, and build a means to alleviate those concerns, I'm all on board. I'm not even asking for a solution, we can kick ideas and collectively come up with alternatives and try them out. But so far, nobody is even pointing to actual specific problems, much less solutions. So far, it's still general concepts like 'racism'.

One possible specific concern to address that has been raised is 'race driven police brutality'. Until we get facts that people CAN agree upon that outline a problem, we can't have a discussion on solving it. So far, there's still a lot of games with numbers to argue both sides, some from honest effort and a lot for trying to prop up one's view. But we need to agree on real world facts (like the schooling and housing, IMO) that real world numbers and situations bear out, before people will say 'yeah, this is a problem we need to fix. all of us need to work to fix it'.


NOTE to @Deru (and others) - just because I quoted a lot of Deru's statement, my replies are not pointed to that individual for a response. Generally I post my thoughts for general feedback and discussion, merely using a person's quoted points upon which to share my thoughts and solicit that general feedback from anyone. Please, generally you shouldn't take my quoting of someone as a direct back and forth unless I directly ask of them by name.
 
It's not about if your granpappy or my granpappy owned slaves. It's about systemic inequality.

We came here on a boat, slaughtered the indigenous people, then shipped other people here and kept them as cattle. for centuries.

Then we fought a war and tens of thousands more peopled died.

Hooray. The slaves were set free. Sadly, we kept most of our racist laws on the books and we had to create a bunch of new ones too. Blacks continued to get murdered and excluded from just about every civil right. They still weren't considered human.

jim Crow, segregation, mlk...

MLK was murdered only 50 years ago.

Today, after all our progress... George Floyd gets executed in public for the crime of forgery while Dylan Roof gets taken to Burger King after slaughtering a church full of black people.

So yeah, call me crazy, but I think blacks are still at a disadvantage in this society. I think reparations and a full , meaningful, detailed , official apology for all the atrocities committed against them . I think that would be a START. But more importantly we need laws and a societal infrastructure to enable everyone to succeed.

That means decriminalizing drugs. Voting rights reform. Addressing things like racist cops and racist laws. Being honest about shit instead of acting personally offended.
 
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It's not about if your granpappy or my granpappy owned slaves. It's about systemic inequality.

We came here on a boat, slaughtered the indigenous people, then shipped other people here and kept them as cattle. for centuries.

Then we fought a war and tens of thousands more peopled died.

Hooray. The slaves were set free. Sadly, we kept most of our racist laws on the books and we had to create a bunch of new ones too. Blacks continued to get murdered and excluded from just about every civil right. They still weren't considered human.

jim Crow, segregation, mlk...

MLK was murdered only 50 years ago.

Today, after all our progress... George Floyd gets executed in public for the crime of forgery while Dylan Roof gets taken to Burger King after slaughtering a church full of black people.

So yeah, call me crazy, but I think blacks are still at a disadvantage in this society. I think reparations and a full , meaningful, detailed , official apology for all the atrocities committed against them . I think that would be a START. But more importantly we need laws and a societal infrastructure to enable everyone to succeed.

That means decriminalizing drugs. Voting rights reform. Addressing things like racist cops and racist laws. Being honest about shit instead of acting personally offended.
So what? Nearly all cultures and ethnicities have enslaved people or been enslaved. While the European slave trade to North America was horrible it was in smaller numbers and less brutal than the enslavement of Europeans by Arabs and North Africans, or the enslavement of black Africans by both tribes and Arabs which continues today in 2020.






Black people in the USA have more rights, freedom, equality, and opportunities now in 2020 than ever before.

As quiet as its kept, Black Africans and black Carribeans who have emigrated to the USA, really do not like black Americans who they view as being spoiled, lazy, racist, and professional complainers.



It is also this way with people who are Desi or South Asian and how they view Desi or South Asians who were raised in North America or the UK.
 
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I'm talking about the country I was born in, it's unique history and specific cultural issues. I'm not talking about the entire global history of slavery.

also Wikipedia links are generally pretty lame. Sometimes I scroll to the bottom and look for any trustworthy sources then read those directly.
 
I'm talking about the country I was born in, it's unique history and specific cultural issues. I'm not talking about the entire global history of slavery.

also Wikipedia links are generally pretty lame. Sometimes I scroll to the bottom and look for any trustworthy sources then read those directly.
You cannot talk about slavery unless you mention the global slave trade as it was the first type of globalisation.
 
That's kind of absurd since America was built by slaves

America was built by indentured servants and I think you'll be surprised to find out what the skin color of most of them were. I suppose those people were evil too considering they signed up for years of hard labor in return for land that was "stolen" from the natives. No one will ever win the oppression Olympics. At some point you have to realize it only serves to divide people so they in-fight among themselves instead of solving the real problems. I try not to make a habit of speaking for the groups of people I belong to so I'm not going to do it for an entire race I don't belong too. I'm not going to march for them either. Let those communities figure out their own problems and handle their own affairs. Most of their problems today are the result of outsiders coming into their community and telling them what to do or killing their community leaders.
 
you put stolen in quotes? What word would you use.
If you can't defend your land you can't complain when someone comes and takes it. Sounds harsh but that's the reality of the world we live in.

P.S. I don't care what minority group you're in (I'm in one too, high five) .... Blacks take the Gold in the oppression Olympics in this country. And its not even close.

Blacks got off better than the natives who couldn't resist the white mans diseases so I'd argue they'd take the Gold. You don't understand what I'm getting at. 99% of the people marching for equality are racists. They just hate a different shade of color. If you think punishing white people that weren't even alive when Jim Crow is going on is going to solve the race issue I have a bridge in New York you might be interested in. If you read history race/class conflicts are always used to divide nations and are typically instigated by folks seeking power. Usually, the so-called usual idiots that bring about change like that are the first ones that are lined up against a wall and shot as soon as they've served their purpose. It's all double think, like claiming to celebrate diversity while also claiming we're all the same. The celebration of diversity to me implies we celebrate our differences because those are the things that make us all unique.

There is no problem with having multiple races, and having those races separated into their own communities as long as they're doing it by choice. There isn't a problem with races mixing and forming new communities either. That's how most of human history and evolution works. What does cause problems is forcing different people into the same areas against their will and giving each group their own set of rules and standards. This only causes fighting and problems that eventually lead to bloodshed. Where I live we have multiple races/groups living in the area. I've noticed nearly all of these people prefer to live around their own groups and you don't have to enforce any laws to keep them separated. That is just the natural state of things and how humans work (they prefer their in-group). All of these groups have their own problems and people within them that only exist to cause drama. I've met assholes of all colors: white, black, yellow, brown etc.

All I'm telling you is if you keep blaming a group of people that just want to go to work and raise their families for all the countries problems at some point they're going to get mad and get violent. You don't want to see violent white people, violent white people are the most vicious war like people on the face of the Earth and all you have to do is look at history to see what I'm talking about. At some point they're going to get sick of being blamed for everything because of the color of their skin and they're going to decide to do something about it. I pray that day doesn't come but I'm pretty sure we're going to see it because it doesn't look like this progressive train we're on is stopping any time soon.

The rich want a race war.
 
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