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God given rights. Do you really have any?

I don't really get information in my brain. I wish I did

My information comes from real life experiences rather than from intellectual learning. Basically I didn't learn anything at school and even then we didn't study Darwin, so I don't know anything about Evolution

Rest assured if it were anything learned at school, I wouldn't believe it anyway because I hated school
 
Speaking of other species and being OT - there are no rights, only privileges.

You don't have a right to be born, you were privileged to be born
You don't have a right to an education, you are privileged to have taxpayers/your mom & dad fund your education
You don't have a right to a job, you are privileged to have been offered a job thanks to your education
You don't have a right to healthcare, your insurance or other taxpayers allow you the privilege of healthcare
You have no right to life and if you disagree go and point this out to a hungry lion/bear/shark or any other predator nearby.

:)

./empeebee
 
Speaking of other species and being OT - there are no rights, only privileges.

You don't have a right to be born, you were privileged to be born
You don't have a right to an education, you are privileged to have taxpayers/your mom & dad fund your education
You don't have a right to a job, you are privileged to have been offered a job thanks to your education
You don't have a right to healthcare, your insurance or other taxpayers allow you the privilege of healthcare
You have no right to life and if you disagree go and point this out to a hungry lion/bear/shark or any other predator nearby.

:)

./empeebee

Well said. Glad to see you join the discussion.

It's very difficult for a lot of homo sapiens to realize their views are entitlements afforded to them from a very advanced social construct - and most of them never have a reason to question what they've been led to believe since birth.
 
So for example in the United States, our civil rights vis a vis our government are not literally God given, they are enumerated in the constitution and its amendments, and mediated by us through the 3 branches of our government and representative democracy.
 
It's simply really, religion was what was used to govern human behavior prior to most governments. Once governments started making laws, they had to incorporate religion at the time to create the bridge between the two for the people at the time. Now it's mostly laws that govern our behavior - which was the inevitable process.

Laws or religion, doesn't matter much, different means to the same end.

I mostly agree, except that in the western world religion has always co-governered with government, but religion wasn't the government itself. For instance, the European monarchies being sanctified by Rome, yet ruling separate from it. It was about divine rule. Religion justified the government, and this is where the later idea of God given human rights came from, especially around the time of the Magna Carta, and eventually the Bill of Rights in the United States.

What I'm proposing is that, if you look at all of world history in its known entirety, and not just Europe and its offshoots, the history of popular rebellion as well as rise and collapse of civilization all revolve around the living conditions that humans will and will not tolerate; and the conditions that humans will not tolerate are practically universal, even between nations that were formerly not in contact with one another. This tell us that there is a core morality guiding human civilization, derived from our very nature itself, which in turn informs "rights". We therefore don't need them conferred by religion or an abstract notion of the divine when our inherent humanity itself informs it. Where it comes from or which agent gave it to us doesn't matter, we have it in us.

I feel that in the case of the United States, they deferred to God in order to supersede the egos of humans so that there would be an ultimate authority deferred to when all else fails. After all, given the times, who was a higher authority than God? If the law were written to interpret rights as God given, just as the Monarchs of old were divinely ordained, then nobody could question it. The problem is that people moved away from being devoutly religious to sort of just doing their duty to religion, to now where people don't even care about it. So there is no longer a supreme authority who "grants" our rights, which we arguably need, otherwise any human can twist the story of rights to become something else, and we're fucked.

My argument is that our human nature itself informs rights, based on the world historical trend of civilizations. We don't need God to do it, and in fact shouldn't use God because it's too subjective at this point. The civilizations that end up failing long-term are the ones who deny human self-sovereignty or the personal pursuit of self-determination. Even some dictatorships in history have been very successful because they erred on the side of freedom.

Bottom line... we all know what it feels like to be treated like shit or have our personal autonomy trampled upon. We also know what it feels like to be treated well. I would argue that there are universalisms to these things that transcend even the need for a Godly-ordained list of rights.
 
The text of the US Constitution actually does not defer to God. Some state constitutions do defer to God and some don't which leads me to think that type of wording is entirely optional and without any significance these days.
 
I guess people turn a blind eye to it, I always did. The pledge of allegiance

We were made to recite it every morning. Well, plus the Christian pledge to the Christian flag right after that but I attended a Christian school

For me I didn't bat an eye but if I could get away from saying them I did, when no one was looking

Anyway the pledge of allegiance seems pretty religious in text. Whether people saw it that way, I suppose would determine a lot. I certainly see it that way as I don't want to make pledges to anybody
 
I have a God Given right to get y’all social security numbers and use them to fund an oxy habit
 
You don't need to worry about whose around to enforce any contracts when you glory under the cross.

You promote that our friend shouls have the same poor moral sense that Christians have.

On Jesus dying for you.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for you, after condemning you unjustly in the first place.

You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh.

Regards
DL
 
Ah - makes sense. Sounds like something a good social construct would include :)

Good lord no. Please read my reply just above.

If you maintain your view after that, tell us what is good about a social contract that allows the innocent to be punished instead of the guilty.

Regards
DL
 
After all, given the times, who was a higher authority than God?

Given that Yahweh is a genocidal and infanticidal moral monster, why on earth would you give such a satanic god authority?

If Yahweh declines your offer to let him rule over you, who becomes your second choice? Hitler?

Regards
DL
 
Just one, free will.

True, if you are willing to suffer the consequences.

What if your free will tell you to shoot your neighbor?

You can, but would you? If you cannot exercise your free will, is it really a free will that you have?

Regards
DL
 
True, if you are willing to suffer the consequences.

What if your free will tell you to shoot your neighbor?

You can, but would you? If you cannot exercise your free will, is it really a free will that you have?

Regards
DL
The point is, you decide. Just you. No one else.
 
The point is, you decide. Just you. No one else.

I see it as authority forcing you to ignore doing your will.

A negated will is hardly a free will. The best we can say is that we have a partial free will that increases the more we want to suffer the consequences of using it.

Socrates laughed at the word freedom and free will as he did not see it as a viable condition for us.

He used to ask those who dis, who will make your shoes?

This shows that we all depend on each other and can never live free from each other.

We are tribal by nature as well as by necessity.

Regards
DL
 
What is downs syndrome should be all I need ask you here.

Regards
DL
I can't tell if it's a flaw though, since I lack perfection. At least that's according to a Biblical view :) However I have a different view where I know that I'm perfect and the reasons are all before me
 
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