God given rights. Do you really have any?

[Gnostic Bishop]

I believe that we do. And I think that they include the right of the use of any plant, use of drugs, freedom, and the right to exercise life. That’s because the basic needs or wants of human life are these.

You would not be able to exercise your rights if a cop happens to be about and you are consuming a drug that you have no right to.

Without you being able to enforce the rights you think you have, or have them enforced by others, you have nothing.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I think we're born with rights and knowing what they are.

Smart baby.

What rights were you born with and able to enforce on your own?

Regards
DL

 

[deficiT]

Examples of these rights you speak of please.

Regards
DL

Food, water, shelter, basic necessities of life. We as a species have the goods and materials to eliminate much suffering, they simply aren't being distributed. That's all there is to it. We are just picking hairs and arguing semantics with these terms "rights liberties freedoms etc" You have no rights or liberty if you have no food, home, or resources. There is no pursuit.

This whole debate is antiquated imo (not a diss on your lovely and thoughtful thread though good sir)

I mean we're debating the nature of governments and rights on smartphones across all corners of the planet (whoa hello Australia) w/ an Enlightenment Era moral philosophy and government framework as reference? Seems like we might need to update our governments to function alongside socioeconomic and material conditions of our time, no?

 

[MountainTrails]

What rights do you see god enforcing?

Regards
DL

I don't see God enforcing rights. Here's the full quote from me:

But without God there, or some universally agreed-on moral foundation, it's not clear to me that a human has any "rights" beyond what they can carve out with their actions and weapons. Where is the basis for rights without God? I think in that case "rights" devolve into "things people want" or "things people have negotiated."

What I'm saying is more structural. If we're looking at this all on the same human plane and talking about rights, where is the legitimate authority to assign, give, or take away human rights. Not privileges. Rights. What human has the authority to grant rights to the entire human race? Nobody. You can make an assertion that you have rights, and you can act as though you have them, but that's about it. So it starts looking pretty relative, and therefore uncertain.

That's the gist of what I was saying.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Righ


I look at a concept based on performance rather than rights, that is, God performed by giving me life, and the issue I struggle with is my return performance, living life more or less in line as a Gentile.

If you begin with a lie about where your life came from, you are not liklely going to get to the right conclusions about life.

Your dad did your mom. Not Yahweh, a genocidal prick. Do try to give your parents their due.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

God doesn't exist, so....no. We have *human* rights, though.

Given to us, sure. By authority.

You have no right to be free.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

It's simply really, religion was what was used to govern human behavior prior to most governments. Once governments started making laws, they had to incorporate religion at the time to create the bridge between the two for the people at the time. Now it's mostly laws that govern our behavior - which was the inevitable process.

Laws or religion, doesn't matter much, different means to the same end.

I agree as both systems, political and religious, are populated by liars and con men.

Regards
DL

 

[Branggen]

How about the right to make choices?

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Food, water, shelter, basic necessities of life. We as a species have the goods and materials to eliminate much suffering, they simply aren't being distributed. That's all there is to it. We are just picking hairs and arguing semantics with these terms "rights liberties freedoms etc" You have no rights or liberty if you have no food, home, or resources. There is no pursuit.

This whole debate is antiquated imo (not a diss on your lovely and thoughtful thread though good sir)

I mean we're debating the nature of governments and rights on smartphones across all corners of the planet (whoa hello Australia) w/ an Enlightenment Era moral philosophy and government framework as reference? Seems like we might need to update our governments to function alongside socioeconomic and material conditions of our time, no?

You say we have rights, then show that they are not being enforced, which negates the rights you say we have.

Without enforcement, we have not rights. All rights are man made and are only real when enforced.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

How about the right to make choices?

If prescribed and allowed by law, no problem.

If you choose to break a law, then plan to fight it and overthrow it if you do not agree with it.

That is the difference between a criminal and a freedom fighter.

The law tends to win when one fights it. When the law will lose, they tend to cheat.

Regards
DL

 

[Deru]

Inquisitions and Jihads.

Need I say more about the immoral mainstream fascist religions?

Regards
DL

Such an excellent point, especially for the person who said they didn't believe in it.

Those are two prime examples of how religion is used to control or govern human behavior.

There is literally no intellectual or spiritual endeavor in it neccessary.

 

[deficiT]

You say we have rights, then show that they are not being enforced, which negates the rights you say we have.

Without enforcement, we have not rights. All rights are man made and are only real when enforced.

Regards
dl

Yes, which I've already said in my previous posts from this thread. Like I said we are talking in philosophical circles.

 

[Branggen]

If prescribed and allowed by law, no problem.

If you choose to break a law, then plan to fight it and overthrow it if you do not agree with it.

That is the difference between a criminal and a freedom fighter.

The law tends to win when one fights it. When the law will lose, they tend to cheat.

Regards
DL

At the end of the day though you can still make a choice, even if you may get punished for it, and I would say that is a right.
Man can make using that right scary or dangerous but it can never be taken away.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Such an excellent point, especially for the person who said they didn't believe in it.

Those are two prime examples of how religion is used to control or govern human behavior.

There is literally no intellectual or spiritual endeavor in it neccessary.

Tell that to those who use them.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

At the end of the day though you can still make a choice, even if you may get punished for it, and I would say that is a right.
Man can make using that right scary or dangerous but it can never be taken away.

Yes they can. Legal systems deny many their rights. I was even denied council and had to defend myself in a court of law. Anecdotal but true.

Regards
DL

 

[Deru]

At the end of the day though you can still make a choice, even if you may get punished for it, and I would say that is a right.
Man can make using that right scary or dangerous but it can never be taken away.

This comes down to every species right to try to reproduce and pass on your genes. You can do whatever you want, but any behavior that doesn't fit into the social construct will lessen your survival and lessen your ability to find a suitable mate.

 

[Deru]

Tell that to those who use them.

Regards
DL

I said necessary. If someone wants to spend their days making it intellectual or spiritual, that's completely fine too.

But yeah, I get your point for sure.

 

[Gormur]

Smart baby.

What rights were you born with and able to enforce on your own?

Regards
DL

To keep it short I'll say liberty. We're probably born with equality too, even if not everyone is fortunate enough to experience it while on this Earth

 

[Deru]

To keep it short I'll say liberty. We're probably born with equality too, even if not everyone is fortunate enough to experience it while on this Earth

How do you figure this? Not...even...close... although it sounds nice to fantasize about.

 

[Gormur]

Then what about fate? I think we're tied to our own fate, so that ties into this. Of course that isn't a scientific answer but it's my viewpoint