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God given rights. Do you really have any?

What about fate? What is fate?

Do animals have fate?
 
Fate is basically how your life plays out in a certain way based on what's already happened to you. Sometimes it can be changed and other times it can't because it wasn't something based on knowledge you obtained on Earth
 
Gormur said:
Fate is basically how your life plays out in a certain way based on what's already happened to you. Sometimes it can be changed and other times it can't because it wasn't something based on knowledge you obtained on Earth
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So by that definition, then, do all species of animals experience fate?

Many factors affect life that isn't based on the knowledge we have, significantly more so than the things we do have knowledge of.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
If you begin with a lie about where your life came from, you are not liklely going to get to the right conclusions about life.

Your dad did your mom. Not Yahweh, a genocidal prick. Do try to give your parents their due.

Regards
DL
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Not gonna happen bro.
 
Deru said:
So by that definition, then, do all species of animals experience fate?

Many factors affect life that isn't based on the knowledge we have, significantly more so than the things we do have knowledge of.
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I think so. With animals it could have more to do with their genetics than with humans, although I'm not the expert here

See I envision a spiritual world, I experience it all the time. That doesn't make it exist but at least for me it's part of my reality. Maybe even fate
 
Gormur said:
I think so. With animals it could have more to do with their genetics than with humans, although I'm not the expert here

See I envision a spiritual world, I experience it all the time. That doesn't make it exist but at least for me it's part of my reality. Maybe even fate
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I would say the only thing that seperates us from similar mammals is our cognitive ability and that allowed us to create social constructs.

So in the definition you gave for fate - which is somewhat unique to the typical definition - I could agree that could somewhat apply in a modified form.

For instance, if your dog lives it's whole life without knowing it has a heart, or what a heart is, does that mean there is a special God for dogs who made them and is looking out for them all? Or there is the contemporary definition of fate for dogs - do dogs have a purpose?

Humans have no purpose outside of our social constructs but to reproduce and pass on your genes. The social constructs that we made introduce the concept of purpose.

I'm curious if you could elaborate on how you experience a spiritual world, because that term can have many meanings as well.
 
sekio said:
god didn't give me shit, and he certainly ain't around to enforce any contracts either
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You don't need to worry about whose around to enforce any contracts when you glory under the cross.
 
Claude Levi-Strauss was on my reading list in college (many years ago), he helped develop structural anthropology, which I think is pretty close to what you're talking about.
 
Deru said:
Humans have no purpose outside of our social constructs but to reproduce and pass on your genes. The social constructs that we made introduce the concept of purpose.

I'm curious if you could elaborate on how you experience a spiritual world, because that term can have many meanings as well.
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Well I don't agree about humans not having a purpose. I think certain humans do, because we are here together. There has to be a reason

The spiritual realm is real. At least for me it is. I don't expect anyone else to believe in it. I'm an atheist but I experience this realm every day. Mainly what I experience has to do with my own destiny but I do sometimes see other things. Like complete strangers then I see them in person one day out of nowhere. It's weird, but who knows if it means anything

Dreams could be a form of spirituality and I just happen to be one of those odd people who as a kid saw demons talking to me. Then I had out of body experiences without doing it intentionally (I was still 9 years old)

I guess as a result I see a lot of psychics and other people as liars because I know what they're doing, but for me it's like someone who's good at computers and they don't know why because they never did anything to deserve it
 
Gormur said:
Well I don't agree about humans not having a purpose. I think certain humans do, because we are here together. There has to be a reason
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Why does there have to be a reason? Because you want there to be one and/or feel the need that there has to be one?

There's a bunch of flamingos here too. Does there have to be a purpose for the flamingos?

I feel the need for a billion dollars but that doesn't mean it's ever going to happen, or realistic in any way.

Similarly, some people find their purpose in our social constructs and thrive. Some never do.

That's life.

Life is chaos. It's beautiful. It's cruel. It's the creation of life and the destruction of life.

It's just a bunch of matter that can never be destroyed.

Your views on your life prove one thing: the social constructs are working as intended. It's a good thing. It absolutely needs to be that way for some people.

It gets you to behave, to be nice to people you have never met, and contribute to our society.
 
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Deru said:
Why does there have to be a reason? Because you want there to be one and/or feel the need that there has to be one?

There's a bunch of flamingos here too. Does there have to be a purpose for the flamingos?

I feel the need for a billion dollars but that doesn't mean it's ever going to happen, or realistic in any way.

Similarly, some people find their purpose in our social constructs and thrive. Some never do.

That's life.

Life is chaos. It's beautiful. It's cruel. It's the creation of life and the destruction of life.

It's just a bunch of matter.

Your views on your life prove one thing: the social constructs are working as intended.
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I don't find a purpose but I'm saying there's probably a reason humans exist. It doesn't have to be a spiritual reason either, because I don't think there's a spiritual reason for anything. It's something older than us

Life is man made. We make it everyday by being alive. That's as far as my belief goes

I have no faith or belief in humans. I think humans are terrible, but I keep going because I'm selfish
 
Gormur said:
Life is man made. We make it ever day by being alive. That's as far as my belief goes
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Pretty close. Society and human social constructions are man made. Yes.

Life is something entirely seperate. Two homo sapiens can reproduce and make life, yes. But what's happening is not unique to homo sapiens. All life on this planet operates on similar principles.

The only reason we are here is due to millions and millions of mistakes and mutations that led to homo sapiens. It's about as simple - and anti-climactic - as that.

We're unique and special in that sense, yes, but we're not that special.

The more one understands the human body and how the same process in all animals for life is the same, it really takes away that magic one feels as being a human being and further, the sense of purpose and such we are taught to believe from early on in life. And since our brains maxed out in size, in order to not keep killing females in child birth, we are one of the most "undercooked" animals when we're born, which is why we are such blank slates when we're young and so susceptible to nature and nurture.
 
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You don't get it though. I don't believe in anything; so I don't believe humans as compared to animals means anything

Actually I don't get what that's supposed to mean. Animals are bad and so are humans, or wait are animals supposed to be humans a long time ago or are they innocent versus humans?

Sorry but I don't follow any of this apologetic kind of nonsense

Maybe I don't get what you're talking about but what are we comparing exactly, and why? I won't compare species. I really don't know or care about other species. I'm a selfish human :)
 
Gormur said:
Maybe I don't get what you're talking about but what are we comparing exactly, and why? I won't compare species. I really don't know or care about other species. I'm a selfish human :)
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Fair enough. Comparing our species to other species is pivotal when discussing issues such as these.

Being a selfish human is what you're supposed to be from a survival standpoint.
 
OK but I disagree. I don't believe in science or religion, or any of it

I just don't have a belief in anything. I've seen things I can't explain. That tells me I'm here. Apart from that nothing else seems real. It doesn't matter what I do because I'm here

I'm not saying my experience is the only one, but it's all I can make sense of
 
Gormur said:
OK but I disagree. I don't believe in science or religion, or any of it

I just don't have a belief in anything. I've seen things I can't explain. That tells me I'm here. Apart from that nothing else seems real. It doesn't matter what I do because I'm here

I'm not saying my experience is the only one, but it's all I can make sense of
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I understand what you're saying - and it's what all of us do with the information we have available to us and how our brain perceives information coming into it.

I'm not asking you to agree with what I'm saying, it was just a fun discussion and actually I was hoping to gain some insight from you into how some people perceive a spiritual world - and you actually helped me with that by your responses.
 
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