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God given rights. Do you really have any?

sekio said:
Actions in the present?

You ever played Myst? What'd Atrus say, "The ending has not yet been written?".
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I think you're both correct in what you're saying, I think @Gnostic Bishop is correct in what he's saying as well. You really need to read, specifically, what he's saying.

Our history defines, exactly, where we are presently. We can not change that. Thus, this becomes the perfect version of the accumulation of all events leading up to right now.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
We live in the best of all possible worlds, given that this is the only possible world, given our history, entropy and the anthropic principle.

It is not what we would see as perfect as we all have things we would change if we could.

Language is also a problem when those like in the U.S posit moving to a more perfect state.

Perfect is subjective, and we each have our opinion on what perfection is.

Regards
DL
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I'm consistent because I know about myself. That's not the same as knowing outsider information because it isn't intellectual by nature; knowing yourself

I don't agree that we'd all like to change things. What change exactly? The only thing to change is a clock

Perfection isn't subjective unless you think it is. Then you're just reflecting on it; not the same thing

Cheers
 
Gormur said:
I'm consistent because I know about myself. That's not the same as knowing outsider information because it isn't intellectual by nature; knowing yourself

I don't agree that we'd all like to change things. What change exactly? The only thing to change is a clock

Perfection isn't subjective unless you think it is. Then you're just reflecting on it; not the same thing

Cheers
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I have a very difficult time understanding what it is, exactly, you're trying to say sometimes.

Can you elaborate?

Gormur said:
I'm consistent because I know about myself
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What are you saying here?

Gormur said:
That's not the same as knowing outsider information because it isn't intellectual by nature; knowing yourself
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Again, what?

Gormur said:
The only thing to change is a clock
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What do you mean the only thing to change is a clock? A clock is a physical object and changes constantly as well as all other physical objects, alive or otherwise.

A clock represents time, which is also constantly changing. Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

Gormur said:
Perfection isn't subjective unless you think it is
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This is what everyone is saying. You're now agreeing? What would objective perfection look like?
 
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Pretty simple. One thing is esoteric, knowing yourself. The other things change on their own, outside of you. The two aren't related, they're separate issues

I never said I agreed (to what, who knows). It seems you answered your own question. Perfection is how you see it

My question to you is: what's imperfection?
 
Gormur said:
I never said I agreed (to what, who knows). It seems you answered your own question. Perfection is how you see it
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You agreed to what other's have said, that perfection is how you see it, when earlier you did not agree, or at least questioned it.

Gormur said:
My question to you is: what's imperfection?
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In this context, objectively, it would be a flaw or a fault. This could be a physical trait or:

In reference to our social construct, it would be some type of inability to be perfectly well adjusted (i.e. a personality and/or psychological trait.) A distinction needs to be made here: mental illnesses are distinguished by social norms, so they can be diagnosed differently across different cultures. So what may be acceptable in one culture may be looked at as a flaw in another.

No human being can achieve objective perfection. That, in itself, becomes perfection then as it relates to human beings subjectively. This is what has been said before, in numerous different ways.

Human beings are inherently flawed, and their uniqueness makes each individual beautiful and perfect in their own way.
 
I'm curious as to where I supposedly agreed with anyone else about anything. I guess I didn't :)

Still I think we're speaking about different subjects again. You seem to be talking about society while I'm just talking about my own experience. If you want to call that subjective that's fine, although to me it wouldn't be subjective. Therefore I won't agree with you

Hope that clears it up
 
Gormur said:
I'm curious as to where I supposedly agreed with anyone else about anything. I guess I didn't :)
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So if you say the same thing as I say, but then say you refuse to agree with I'm saying, can you understand how that can be confusing?

Gormur said:
Still I think we're speaking about different subjects again. You seem to be talking about society while I'm just talking about my own experience.
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Do you not live in society? Are you somehow exempt? Everything you do, whether you like it or not, is judged relative to the society you live in.

You can think you're somehow exempt from this, I suppose. That's the beauty of our advanced social constructs, it doesn't matter much if you understand what's happening or not - but it's still happening and everything thing you do is completely intertwined with what we're talking about from a social construct point of view and for the purpose of our discussion.

You rely on society for survival, therefore it's not just about you anymore.

Gormur said:
If you want to call that subjective that's fine, although to me it wouldn't be subjective. Therefore I won't agree with you
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What does this even mean? What would you call it? Didn't you, literally, just call it subjective in your previous post?

I'm really striving here to understand your views and thoughts, but you're not making it easy unfortunately. Is it just important to disagree for the sake of trying to be unique and distinguished? I'm at a loss here.
 
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Hm I guess what I meant is that I understand who I am as an individual apart from society. Even though I don't think in those terms, so maybe I don't express that well in words. If that's what you thought I was talking about, but I don't know if that's true

I do see what you're talking about, but I have to admit to not having a clue about it. Maybe it's just for the fact that I'm sort of a loner and identify things about myself relatively easily that I don't even need a social filter; I think this is what I'm getting here, reading through it

So no, I don't understand and it's different from where I sit. How we process our identity or who we are as people; two very different things for me at least. On the other hand, maybe we're talking about a learning experience, but I never did

I don't find learning about myself a real thing. It sounds cool, but that's just never been an experience I've had
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
You would not be able to exercise your rights if a cop happens to be about and you are consuming a drug that you have no right to.

Without you being able to enforce the rights you think you have, or have them enforced by others, you have nothing.

Regards
DL
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Gnostic Bishop said:
You would not be able to exercise your rights if a cop happens to be about and you are consuming a drug that you have no right to.

Without you being able to enforce the rights you think you have, or have them enforced by others, you have nothing.

Regards
DL
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well yes, but I believe that police and government take away god given rights. Thanks for your input though.
 
I don't know why the police get such a bad wrap. They're humans too

Maybe people award them power imaginatively that isn't actually there, although from my angle I don't get why that is. Then the civilians put their blame on the police, like they're the authority figure

The whole idea is foreign to me. Maybe because I see the police as equals. I do hate when I'm bothered by them, but I look at it like any other discourse and move on. They don't have power over me, invisible or otherwise

If they do anything against me they'll get in trouble just like anyone else would
 
Gormur said:
Maybe people award them power imaginatively that isn't actually there,
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You may not realize it, but that's how society and social constructs work, my friend.

All power is given only in our minds, and it only works if the majority of the collective whole believes it and then adapts their behavior to abide by it.

No other species could see or touch this power these people are given - so it is not physically real. It's only there because we agree to allow it.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
For the future improvement, sure, but we were talking making his present better.
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Gnostic, I understood what you meant. My point is that we all have a past, a present and a future.
We, in the present, are the sum of the past parts and we cannot change the past. We can however shape tomorrow's present by acting on tomorrow's past, which is the current present.
 
Morals are engendered based on the fact of moral law..

Good is moral.. so to be a good person is moral..

To be a bad person is immoral.

Therefore morality is an imperative category..

Rites are based on this..?

But the question comes.. what do you do to someone who has commited a bad action..? Well based on how you feel.. you want to fulfil that..first of all, a priori.

So therefore people have full rites to do what ever they want as long as it's good.

People have no rite to do bad things..

But if a person does do a bad thing.. you can do whatever you want to punish them.. and/or correct them!
 
But what is rites based on.. well they should be vehicles or real and tangible experiences..

Morality as a filter of lawful and unlawful actions..

Subjective experience should be purified to the point of being 100% moral and good
 
Brendan12 said:
So therefore people have full rites to do what ever they want as long as it's good.

People have no rite to do bad things..

But if a person does do a bad thing.. you can do whatever you want to punish them.. and/or correct them!
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What...?

Who gets to decide what's right and wrong?
 
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