Harm Reduction Mitragyna speciosa (kratom)

[aspiringchemist]

I find the tea less abrasive and gag inducing, unless in large amounts. Cool thing about tea is theoretically you can simmer it down to a single shot or so. Makes it easier to get down.

I own a capsule machine and find it easier to hand pack capsules with a pair of needle nose pliers honestly; if we're talking about filling to maximum 1g capacity. Problem with capsules is that it increases time to absorption because the capsules have to dissolve; some dont mind this. My wife is someone who simply cannot handle the taste, hence the capsules. I personally dont bother. Just pound it back whether TW or tea lol.
A lot of our taste mechanisms cross over and are involved with smell. If you are able to not breathe through your nose while swallowing kratom and then use a chaser right after to rinse your mouth, I find it bearable this way.

 

[aspiringchemist]

So I just picked up my first bottle of OPMS liquid extract (8.8ml). I'll post pics. Am I crazy or is the label stating that there is 118mg of 7-Hydroxymitragynine present per bottle?

Never mind! I'm dumb lol. I see now that its 118mg mitragynine and 0.01mg 7-HO.



UPDATE:
just brewed tea with 16.5g red sumatra and consumed alongside the OPMS shot. I actually poured the OPMS into a shot glass to see it. Holy shit that is some foul tasting stuff! The residual rum-like alcohol aftertaste makes it just that much worse than kratom tea lol. I'm a serious alcoholic and no longer drink alcohol; been like 1.5 years since my last drink. Alcohol just went on top of all the rest so it's not like I became a polysubstance user when I quit drinking; I was there long before. But I'm not concerned with ingesting small amoints of alcohol as is present in tinctures or cough medicines. Wild Turkey was my go-to.

The shop sells the 8.8ml tincture for the same price as a 2 pack of OPMS gold capsules. Though, according to the new packaging of each, there is only 118mg mitragynine in the entire tincture and 84mg mitragynine in each capsule, thus 2 capsules is 168mg mitragynine.

 

[CfZrx]

You know, I've always read that long term kratom users (in Thailand) develop darkening of facial skin pigment with heavy use. I've been using kratom in 30 - 50g doses per day consistently for like 4ish years (cant remember exactly when I started). I have not experienced any pigment darkening or skin issues of any kind. I really haven't had any extreme negative responses, other than typical side effects. Just my experience.

Speaking of "Black Face", Turbo Negro is the shit!

As an anecdote, as I've posted a lot recently, I've been using kratom since ~ 2014. I started using it to replace opioids from pain management; but I was not physiologically dependent on opioids at the time (Rx was PRN). I have been heavily dependent on heroin, morphine, methadone, hydro/oxy, codeine etc many times like 10 years prior, just not when I made the switch to kratom.

I sure as hell hope skin issues don't develop. I also worry about testosterone and thyroid issues, though haven't experienced them at all (30 y/o Male). Had routine medical blood work done 4 months ago with primary care provider and all was wnl.

Though, I personally would choose methadone or buprenorphine maintenance therapy over kratom use at this point; I posted my reasoning earlier in this thread. I know that is not a popular opinion, but that is how I feel. I am really physiologically dependent on kratom. Serious and heavy withdrawl develops within 24 hours of discontinuation. Having gone through a myriad of opioid withdrawal situations in the past (as stated above), I can say for me, the discontinuation syndrome from kratom is similar to natural and synthetic opioids.

Hehe, damn ~2 oz doses? I thought I was being excessive with my rounded tablespoon doses last month! Now I'm back to a teaspoon or two twice a day. Wow, your drug experience mirrors mine greatly. I too prefer bupe over Kratom. I put methadone out of my mind on purpose after being switched from that to bupe, but golly, I sure liked it.

Can someone answer this for me?

Some people are like, "I take 20 grams of kratom 5 times a day." How on earth does one eat an entire bag of the disgusting tasting powder 5 times a day? There must be an alternative method to consuming it. Two spoon-fulls make me gag every single time and it's been a year now of adjusting to the taste. The taste still makes me want to not live anymore

Well, maybe this will help. Put the medium/small gulp of water in your mouth first, and then, with your head tilted back you toss the teaspoon (or maybe a tablespoon once you're good at the method) into your mouth and gulp the mix. I rarely taste the kratom very much using this method.

Someone above mentioned darkening of skin from kratom, I have never had that ever.

Lol, I do believe we will get this shitty effect after a decade or two of use. Remember, the anecdotal reports of this blackface shit comes from these old guys who chewed the leaf their whole life.

 

[CfZrx]

I find the tea less abrasive

The tea will get you higher too

 

[aspiringchemist]

Hehe, damn ~2 oz doses? I thought I was being excessive with my rounded tablespoon doses last month! Now I'm back to a teaspoon or two twice a day. Wow, your drug experience mirrors mine greatly. I too prefer bupe over Kratom. I put methadone out of my mind on purpose after being switched from that to bupe, but golly, I sure liked it.

I mean 30-50g per day in divided doses. I usually take 10g 3x/day (every 3-4 hours) and then make tea with 20g or TW 15g for an overall daily intake of 50g.

Ya, isnt methadone great! (Only for those tolerant to opioids). Before I got into opiates I ate LSD and psilocybin mushrooms a fucking lot. Smoked lab synthed DMT regularly. Lots of tryptamine and phenethylamine use Crystal MDMA etc. I was incredibly fortunate to be introduced to real Grateful Dead family (by this I mean band members, their spouses, and original pranksters still living at that time). Not lot fam bullshit.

The first time I acquired doses from them I expected it to be like what I was used to, weak paper requiring 5 hits to a 10 strip to trip. I also was young and didn't do my research. Ingested 5 tabs at a Bob Dylan show in the summer at an outdoor amphitheater. OMFG. Mind was blown. Visuals started about 10 minutes after ingestion and I knew I was in for a long strange trip

Eventually cocaine and methamphetamine were introduced. Along with them came opioids. I was eventually an IV cocaine user (or rocked it to smoke), methamphetamine, and addicted to both shooting and smoking black tar heroin. You know the rest of that story...

 

[aspiringchemist]

On the topic of taste of kratom, I don't like it at all but I have come to rely on it as an indicator of potency. There are a few aromas that seem to consistently be associated with certain effect profiles; of course this is just my experience.

Also, I've come across some nasty stuff in kratom (from the top tier vendors); I suppose it happens considering all the material goes through and the lack of regulations. Hair, hard plastic, plastic baggie, chalks and dye and more. Making tea and TWing allow you to remove foreign materials that may be otherwise missed in encapsulated powder; unless you go through it and make them yourself of course.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

You clearly don't have an aversion to it, not yet anyway.

It's not like that at first with certain substances, but the more you taste it, aversion happens. Then just the thought of tasting it makes me want to puke.
I think that's only happened with kratom and kava...oh and certain liquor.

I've never come across weird stuff in my kratom ever. I only deal with powder though and I can see for myself that nothing strange is in it. I make the caps myself. Kratom capsules are a rip-off. They're basically jacking up the price for people who are too lazy to make their own capsules. You can get a ton of powder and save a huge amount of money.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I've had batches of kratom that felt just as strong as oxy as if not stronger.

I think the majority of batches are garbage but occasionally some bags can whoop you on your ass lol. People think it's an incredibly weak opiate but sometimes it's a real drug.

 

[sewerslide.666mg]

for me i have a Starbucks empty class the one u get at gas stations ect. with a cap, fill 3quarters milk and put 3-6 t spoons in put cap on and shake the shit out of it, wait 10 15 min shake and pound, usually have a piece of banana for a chaser after I chug,

 

[aspiringchemist]

You clearly don't have an aversion to it, not yet anyway.

It's not like that at first with certain substances, but the more you taste it, aversion happens. Then just the thought of tasting it makes me want to puke.
I think that's only happened with kratom and kava...oh and certain liquor.

I've never come across weird stuff in my kratom ever. I only deal with powder though and I can see for myself that nothing strange is in it. I make the caps myself. Kratom capsules are a rip-off. They're basically jacking up the price for people who are too lazy to make their own capsules. You can get a ton of powder and save a huge amount of money.

Oh I'm aversive to it, but have always had a knack at putting down substances, be it alcohol or a handful of pills without water, or gnarly kratom powder, psilocybin tea etc. I've vomited full 15g doses into my mouth during TW and swallowed it back down (mainly in effort not to vomit out my vyvanse dose before it's cleaved).

Glad you haven't found any surprises in your kratom. I hope you don't. In my 5 years of daily usage I'd say I've come across something maybe once a year. One of my best finds was chunks of red chalk in kratom marketed as "additive free". When I emailed the company photos and asked what it was their response was "It is most likely a dye added by our farmer". I proceeded to ask "So, uh is it not additive free then?"

Never recieved a response. Never ordered again after 3 years of monthly kilos.

Better than the chunk of glass in the middle of a ball of bth or candle wax dispersed amongst amphetamine crystals; both of which I experienced.

 

[Mycophile]

So I just picked up my first bottle of OPMS liquid extract (8.8ml). I'll post pics. Am I crazy or is the label stating that there is 118mg of 7-Hydroxymitragynine present per bottle?

Never mind! I'm dumb lol. I see now that its 118mg mitragynine and 0.01mg 7-HO.

View attachment 19140

UPDATE:
just brewed tea with 16.5g red sumatra and consumed alongside the OPMS shot. I actually poured the OPMS into a shot glass to see it. Holy shit that is some foul tasting stuff! The residual rum-like alcohol aftertaste makes it just that much worse than kratom tea lol. I'm a serious alcoholic and no longer drink alcohol; been like 1.5 years since my last drink. Alcohol just went on top of all the rest so it's not like I became a polysubstance user when I quit drinking; I was there long before. But I'm not concerned with ingesting small amoints of alcohol as is present in tinctures or cough medicines. Wild Turkey was my go-to.

The shop sells the 8.8ml tincture for the same price as a 2 pack of OPMS gold capsules. Though, according to the new packaging of each, there is only 118mg mitragynine in the entire tincture and 84mg mitragynine in each capsule, thus 2 capsules is 168mg mitragynine.

I have this right now and i'm considering taking it but i can't figure out if i want to cause i don't know how much i should take or how it will feel.

How much of it did you take, how did you feel and how many grams would you say it amounts to?

Like, my doses are about 12.25 grams of ground leaf, regardless of strain, so should i drink the whole thing in one shot?

How strong is it, and do you think it will significantly increase my tolerance or rather, make withdrawal effects worse?

Cause i'm about to start taking a very long break from kratom in a few days and if it's an extract i'm guessing it could, but if it's really good i'll probably take it anyway lol.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Hey Mycophile sorry for the delay in my response. My life has many hardships right now and I don't always make it to BL. So if ya already took it I hope it went well.

I've went through 3 of them now and I gotta say I prefer the OPMS gold capsules to the tincture. IME the tincture was more stimulating and kept me up, which kratom never does.

It was pretty damn strong. I never take extract without plain leaf or tea so I cannot tell you how they feel alone. Each time I've consumed the entire shot followed by tea brewed from ~15g powder. It was actually a little dysphoric likely due to the nausea and too much NE release; fortunately I always have ondansetron on hand which works wonders for kratom nausea.

Within 15 minutes I was sweating and buzzing hard, laying on the cold kitchen floor trying not to vomit. It passed and plateaued, but kinda left me at 3 hours with a hangover feeling and just wanting to lay down.

Maybe that was too much for me. Idk. It was somewhat similar to some early experiences with too high of doses; the sweating, dilated pupils, tremors etc. I just know now that I'll be ok so I dont panic.

I believe leaf is ~15mg mitragynine/gram, so 10g kratom is ~150mg mitragynine (if I am correct in the initial dosage per gram, which I may not be).

One of these shots is 118mg, so about 8 grams equivalent by doing the math, but I'd say the entire shot is on par with 10-12g probably, but that's just a (mildly) educated guess.

Something interesting to note is that I used to be addicted to phenibut at 2 - 4g per day for about a year. I have been off of it almost a year (I dont exactly remember how long).

I have extensive experience with gabaergic drugs including benzodiazepines, barbiturates, and the gabapentinoids (gabapentin, pregabalin, phenibut). Phebibut has this distinct feeling to me that I always recognize. It's sort of a heavy headedness and loss of coordination that consistently occurred when I took phenibut. I swear the past 3 days that I've ingested the OPMS tincture extract I have felt that familiar phenibut feeling. Now I am certainly not accusing them of lacing the product with phenibut at all, but it was the strangest thing.

I just poured out 2 OPMS gold capsules and TW'd them on top of 15g maha kali red vein tea after a long day of vyvanse and adderall, ensuring everyone in my family was satisfied all day. Now it's my turn

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays BL'ers
✌

UPDATE - Feeling way better at T+30 min with 2 OPMS gold capsules and 15g brewed tea than the OPMS liquid tincture.

When I picked these up today the shop owner recommended zion herbals gold reserve capsules and gave me a 5 pack for free. Anyone used these? I'll report back when I do.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

^ One shot is plenty enough. Taking tea along with it is overkill. No wonder you felt so sick. You only need one shot. @Mycophile Drink the whole bottle. It does increase tolerance. That's why shots are good once in a while, not often.

I'm going to Wild Bill's Tobacco tomorrow to stack up on some shots and kratom since I only have cash. Or else I would've ordered online if the money was in my account. It'll be quicker to go pick it up anyway.

 

[Xorkoth]

You guys saved my life. The taste made me suicidal.

For real? Suicidal? Geez, it's just a taste. I don't think it tastes that bad, but even if something tastes awful, it's just a sensation. FYI, peanut butter basically washes all other lingering tastes out of your mouth.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

For real? Suicidal? Geez, it's just a taste. I don't think it tastes that bad, but even if something tastes awful, it's just a sensation. FYI, peanut butter basically washes all other lingering tastes out of your mouth.

Totally exaggerating sorry The taste is was definitely very hard to manage. Either they've done a better job with improving the taste lately or I've gotten better at handling--either or. I don't gag like I used to anymore.

 

[aspiringchemist]

Totally exaggerating sorry The taste is was definitely very hard to manage. Either they've done a better job with improving the taste lately or I've gotten better at handling--either or. I don't gag like I used to anymore.

It just gets easier with time. You learn tricks to not experience the taste so much. Capsules are a way around this but for me, I would have to be stuffing capsules full time to keep up with my habit.

 

[aspiringchemist]

^ One shot is plenty enough. Taking tea along with it is overkill. No wonder you felt so sick. You only need one shot. @Mycophile Drink the whole bottle. It does increase tolerance. That's why shots are good once in a while, not often.

I would agree. Though here's what's interesting... 2 OPMS gold caps equal 168mg mitragynine and 1 shot equals 118mg mitragynine. I consumed each with tea prepared from the same batch of kratom and the same dosage.

With the gold capsules last night I felt great. Added in some diazepam and butalbital.
(**I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS IF YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OR TOLERANCE. MIXING SEDATIVES AND/OR OPIOIDS INCREASES RISK OF OVERDOSE**)

With the tincture I just felt like shit, but it supposedly has less mitragynine present compared to the capsules. I believe its marketed as a maeng da extract, so perhaps that alters the experience as compared to the gold capsules.

Also, they state their extraction is something like a cold water and pressure method, which does not utilize solvents. But it clearly states on the tincture bottle something like "residual alcohol may be present from extraction" and you can certainly taste the alcohol. I wont purchase the shots again.

As most of us know, quality pure alkaloid extracts are available online but with my tolerance I still find at least 1 gram is required on top of leaf, so in that sense OPMS is not much more expensive.

I'm gonna try these Zion Herbals Gold Reserve capsules that were gifted to me here shortly

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

That's cool you prefer the capsules. I prefer the shots. I haven't bought OPMS in forever. The high cost always turns me away.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

That's cool you prefer the capsules. I prefer the shots. I haven't bought OPMS in forever. The high cost always turns me away.

It's incredible for someone with such low tolerance to any kratom and etc., but even so the magic in the beginning decays very quickly (about 3-4 days if you swallow them daily). It's not worth the cost for other than on occasion and also the wd is actually much more intense than just regular powder.

 

[CoastTwoCoast]

It's incredible for someone with such low tolerance to any kratom and etc., but even so the magic in the beginning decays very quickly (about 3-4 days if you swallow them daily). It's not worth the cost for other than on occasion and also the wd is actually much more intense than just regular powder.

Some people are addicted to OPMS shots, that's all they buy every month, even for years and they suffer in the end. I wish they would give me the money they spend on that shit. I'd be rich. You're right, it's only something to do on occasion. It raises your tolerance sky high. Powder is better in the long run.