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US Politics The Mueller Investigation - report is out

I could absolutely believe that trumps completely clueless and the people around him try and keep him uninvolved in important issues.

It's what seems to happen in his administration, so I could see his campaign managers doing it too.
 
I could absolutely believe that trumps completely clueless and the people around him try and keep him uninvolved in important issues.

It's what seems to happen in his administration, so I could see his campaign managers doing it too.

What about Trump's lawyer Cohen mortgaging his house to get the money to pay Stormy Daniels, for which he was convicted of illegal campaign contribution, was Trump aware of that?

Cohen even taped the conversations with Trump's accountant about how he was to be repayed in $25,000 installments. Was Trump aware of that?

Kind of funny to be named a coconspirator in a crime, you directed and another has already been convicted of but yet you yourself are free from inditement.
 
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I don't know what trump was or wasn't aware of.

All I said was that I find it entirely plausible that trump might be kept at a distance from everything his more competent subordinates are doing.

Would you let trump get involved with anything important? I wouldn't. He's liable to tweet something idiotic and fuck it up. Or decide he knows best in spite of knowing nothing and try and take over.

And when he fucks it up there's no question you'll be the one he blames.

So the suggestion that trump wasn't made aware of something his subordinates were doing strikes me as entirely believable.
 
I don't know what trump was or wasn't aware of.

All I said was that I find it entirely plausible that trump might be kept at a distance from everything his more competent subordinates are doing.

Would you let trump get involved with anything important? I wouldn't. He's liable to tweet something idiotic and fuck it up. Or decide he knows best in spite of knowing nothing and try and take over.

And when he fucks it up there's no question you'll be the one he blames.

So the suggestion that trump wasn't made aware of something his subordinates were doing strikes me as entirely believable.

I know.... I agree with you. It was a nice segway and that's why I quoted you. I was more or less seizing the opportunity to lay more convincing facts on the table, that a lot of people either seem not to know or care about, showing direct criminal actions. It wasn't even really directed at you.

I'm going to chill on the whole politics issue for a while. It's giving me a headache and nothing can be said that would change anyone's mind anyways. His supporters minds are made up and it doesn't matter what evidence is presented.
 
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I knew all this because I read news but I will forgive you because you get yours from Trump.

@JGrimez and please go read my edit question above...

That's your problem you read news (liberal media) but don't actually go to the source and evaluate things for yourself:



^Comey admitting they found EVIDENCE of crimes (what they failed to find with Trump). When Comey says "no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case" against her, that's political-speak meaning "Clinton is too powerful to charge, she has too much dirt on others and the emails lead back to Obama who knew of her server yet emailed her under a pseudonym which means he'd also have to be held accountable, so I'm just gonna nip it in the bud and be the fall guy".

You can tell by his face that Comey knows how fucked he could potentially get but he kinda had no choice. This is also video evidence of Comey obstructing justice. It's not even the FBI director's job to recommend charges his job is simply to pass the evidence to the DOJ. The DOJ was headed by Lynch at the time and Bill met secretly with her on the tarmac while this was all going on. Do you reckon they might have discussed Hillary's case?

Re: Manafort. You're connecting dots and making stuff up based on no evidence. The charges against Manafort have nothing to do with Russia, nothing to do with the Trump campaign and nothing to do with collusion. They are money laundering charges and tampering with witness charges. He laundered money for a Ukrainian group that is only loosely connected with Russia, not Kremlin-connected. This was 10 years before he was involved with the Trump campaign lol.. He'll do 3 years after time served in a cushy low-security federal facility. He's a POS that deserves worse.

And you know what I vaguely remember the Podesta Group being involved with Manafort's criminal activity LOL. Remember John and Tony Podesta, briefly named, given immunity and then magically disappeared.

And the other charges, why such low sentences? Roger Stone probably won't do any time, Papadopolous 14 days (!!), Flynn is still free..
 
They have found evidence with Trump... It's in that 400pg DOJ "source" material, that this thread is about called the Mueller report...lol
That's your problem you read news (liberal media) but don't actually go to the source and evaluate things for yourself:



^Comey admitting they found EVIDENCE of crimes (what they failed to find with Trump). When Comey says "no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case" against her, that's political-speak meaning "Clinton is too powerful to charge, she has too much dirt on others and the emails lead back to Obama who knew of her server yet emailed her under a pseudonym which means he'd also have to be held accountable, so I'm just gonna nip it in the bud and be the fall guy".

You can tell by his face that Comey knows how fucked he could potentially get but he kinda had no choice. This is also video evidence of Comey obstructing justice. It's not even the FBI director's job to recommend charges his job is simply to pass the evidence to the DOJ. The DOJ was headed by Lynch at the time and Bill met secretly with her on the tarmac while this was all going on. Do you reckon they might have discussed Hillary's case?

Re: Manafort. You're connecting dots and making stuff up based on no evidence. The charges against Manafort have nothing to do with Russia, nothing to do with the Trump campaign and nothing to do with collusion. They are money laundering charges and tampering with witness charges. He laundered money for a Ukrainian group that is only loosely connected with Russia, not Kremlin-connected. This was 10 years before he was involved with the Trump campaign lol.. He'll do 3 years after time served in a cushy low-security federal facility. He's a POS that deserves worse.

And you know what I vaguely remember the Podesta Group being involved with Manafort's criminal activity LOL. Remember John and Tony Podesta, briefly named, given immunity and then magically disappeared.

And the other charges, why such low sentences? Roger Stone probably won't do any time, Papadopolous 14 days (!!), Flynn is still free..


The fact is that he stated no intent was established.

Manafort was found to have given Russian GSR agents polling data that was used to conduct facebook attacks, while he was Trump's campaign manager, which is in the DOJ "source" material called the Mueller report, which you claim to have read.

I really let this get way off track because this is the Mueller thread about criminal acts that Trump has committed. I could really care less about former Secretary of State Clinton, as you are operating under the assumption that I am a democrat, which I am not. Hillary is not president and I didn't vote for her, so in reality this is all just deflection and smoke screens from the real issue, which is the criminal acts outlined in the Mueller report committed by a sitting president.

Why has Trump spent so much time committing, gross and flippant acts of obstruction? Those acts are a crime in and of themselves for a reason and that reason is that people obstruct to hide or cover up guilt.
 
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Yeah I gotta say I'm getting real sick of Trump fans always assuming everyone who doesn't like Trump or thinks he's a criminal is left wing, watches mainstream media all the time, and was a fan of Hillary Clinton.

I for one am sick of Trump fans bringing up Clinton at all. She's not president. And nothing she did or might have done had she become president in any way changes or justifies trumps actions.
 
They have found evidence with Trump... It's in that 400pg DOJ "source" material, that this thread is about called the Mueller report...lol
If they found evidence of crimes against Trump in the Mueller report then they'd impeach/indict, or that means he walks away from crimes like Clinton did. If you're telling the truth then show me one indictment related to Russia collusion.

The fact is that he stated no intent was established.
But intent is irrelevant here, so why say that? And that would also mean that she was so incompetent that she mishandled some of the most top secret information inside the US government. That automatically should disqualify her from any important position. The truth is that there was intent, but as I mentioned before that was part of the excuse for Comey to commit obstruction of justice and let her walk.

Manafort was found to have given Russian GSR agents polling data that was used to conduct facebook attacks, while he was Trump's campaign manager, which is in the DOJ "source" material called the Mueller report, which you claim to have read.
I told you that I knew the Mueller Investigation was a fabricated coup since the beginning. So what's in the report is BS until it's proven. What's proven with Manafort is what I stated above because that's what he was found guilty of. Why would they convict him of stuff a decade ago that he did with Dems if they had evidence of him more recently committing criminal activity with Russians? What you're claiming doesn't match with what actually eventuated.

I could really care less about former Secretary of State Clinton
it's funny how you and many others don't care and/or are unaware of what she did. Because if Trump did any of what Clinton did you would hypocritically be calling for his head (and rightfully so).

as you are operating under the assumption that I am a democrat, which I am not.
Where did I say that? I'm just telling you the facts and you resist them, then you lie. If you held no allegiance to the Dems then you would be more unbiased when assessing their criminal activity which you are not. You think claims of "no intent" absolves someone of mishandling SAP intelligence. The only place you got this idea from is liberal media, so even if you're not a Dem you are still brainwashed by their media which is basically the same.

Hillary is not president and I didn't vote for her, so in reality this is all just deflection and smoke screens from the real issue, which is the criminal acts outlined in the Mueller report committed by a sitting president.
in one case we have direct and damning evidence and provable obstruction of justice, and the other we have insinuations and conspiracy theories. You're right about the deflection you've just got it reversed.

Why has Trump spent so much time committing, gross and flippant acts of obstruction? Those acts are a crime in and of themselves for a reason and that reason is that people obstruct to hide or cover up guilt.
I thought it was "collusion with Russia"?

I would stop lying if I was you it can be damaging to our psychology.
 
nothing she did or might have done had she become president in any way changes or justifies trumps actions.
the things she did before running for president matter. Because what if Trump was found with classified information on a bathroom server he set up in Trump Tower? Can we charge Trump but not Clinton? How could anyone look at themselves in the mirror and honestly say they agree with that? What happened with Clinton set a very bad precedent.

I chuckle also at the people that claim to be so outraged about the tiniest violation of any hinted endangering of national security, but then will ignore or deflect from the server scandal. It exposes their blatant hypocrisy.

These people don't care about the law. They don't care about justice. They don't care about truth - and they will unashamedly subvert all of those things as long as they're getting Trump. Sad.
 
Excerpt from "The Real Reason The Propagandists Have Been Promoting Russia Hysteria":

In a very interesting new Grayzone interview packed full of ideas that you’ll never hear voiced on western mass media, Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov spoke openly about the various ways that Russia, China, and other nations who’ve resisted absorption into the blob of the US power alliance have been working toward the creation of a multipolar world. Ryabkov said other nations have been watching the way the dominance of the US dollar has been used to economically terrorize noncompliant nations into subservience by way of sanctions and other manipulations, with Washington expecting that the dollar and the US financial system will remain “the cardiovascular system of the whole organism.”

“That will not be the case,” Ryabkov said. “People will bypass, in literal terms. And people will find ways how to defend themselves, how to protect themselves, how to guarantee themselves against any emergencies if someone comes up at the White House or whatever, at the Treasury, at the State, and says ‘Hey guys, now we should stop what is going on in Country X, and let’s squeeze them out.’ And this country sits on the dollar. So they will be done the moment those ideas will be pronounced. So China, Russia and others, we create alternatives that we will most probably continue using not just national currencies, but baskets of currencies, currencies of third countries, other modern barter schemes.”

“We will use ways that will diminish the role of dollar and US banking system with all these risks of assets and transactions being arrested, being stopped,” Ryabkov concluded.

That, right there, is the real reason you’re being sold Russia hysteria today.

 
If they found evidence of crimes against Trump in the Mueller report then they'd impeach/indict, or that means he walks away from crimes like Clinton did. If you're telling the truth then show me one indictment related to Russia collusion.

But intent is irrelevant here, so why say that? And that would also mean that she was so incompetent that she mishandled some of the most top secret information inside the US government. That automatically should disqualify her from any important position. The truth is that there was intent, but as I mentioned before that was part of the excuse for Comey to commit obstruction of justice and let her walk.

I told you that I knew the Mueller Investigation was a fabricated coup since the beginning. So what's in the report is BS until it's proven. What's proven with Manafort is what I stated above because that's what he was found guilty of. Why would they convict him of stuff a decade ago that he did with Dems if they had evidence of him more recently committing criminal activity with Russians? What you're claiming doesn't match with what actually eventuated.

it's funny how you and many others don't care and/or are unaware of what she did. Because if Trump did any of what Clinton did you would hypocritically be calling for his head (and rightfully so).

Where did I say that? I'm just telling you the facts and you resist them, then you lie. If you held no allegiance to the Dems then you would be more unbiased when assessing their criminal activity which you are not. You think claims of "no intent" absolves someone of mishandling SAP intelligence. The only place you got this idea from is liberal media, so even if you're not a Dem you are still brainwashed by their media which is basically the same.

in one case we have direct and damning evidence and provable obstruction of justice, and the other we have insinuations and conspiracy theories. You're right about the deflection you've just got it reversed.

I thought it was "collusion with Russia"?
ll
I would stop lying if I was you it can be damaging to our psychology.

Look dude.... We've talked about this over and over again and your response is the same thing every time... Lies!! Fake news.... It's in the Mueller report. He clearly obstructed justice on the investigation of whether he colluded or not with Russia. Why does somebody obstruct justice? I'll let you infer from that what you will. That fact along with all the other circumstantial evidence is enough to allow me to say.... I believe he is ALSO guilty of collusion but more importantly the case for obstruction is made.

Mueller already stated from the outset that he was not going to make a determination for indictment but would simply lay out the evidence. It's not as if the evidence is presented and the next day he is stripped of the office. The DOJ stance is not to ever indict a sitting president. That brings us to impeachment.

This is a difficult and tricky process because, of course there are a lot of politics involved. The house is beginning the process as we speak but unfortunately they have to weigh their options because even when the impeachment is passed in the house and the trial is held they would never receive the 2/3 majority vote in the republican controlled senate because republicans wouldn't impeach, even if he "shot somebody on 5th ave"? We'll see.....

Comey stated his reasons for not trying Clinton, they didn't and most importantly.. I don't care. Hillary is not PRESIDENT. She has never been anything but Secretary of State and that was 3yrs ago. Nothing to do with Trump's crimes. While we're on the subject of Comey(registered republican), He has stated that Trump was trying to make him stop the investigation into Flynn(obstruction).

Also you never addressed the fact that Trump was already named a co-conspirator(on court transcripts) in a crime, for which Cohen has already been convicted and if you think the evidence doesn't connect Trump. You're wrong... but unfortunately he's President..... best get out of jail free card ever.

10 other cases for obstruction in the MUELLER REPORT on TRUMP

Trump has committed obstruction... A CRIME....... and for a good reason. Why does someone so blatantly obstruct the investigation into a crime?

The fact is that the SITTING PRESIDENT has committed multiple crimes but you keep deflecting and changing the subject to a secretary of state that hasn't been in office for over 3yrs..

It is unfortunate that this is even a debate because if we didn't have this bipartisan nonsense then there wouldn't even be a question of whether we should impeach..

Which brings me back to my statement.... There was a time in this country when we tried to stand for truth because it was morally right. Now we fall for lies to prove who is more morally righteous in being wrong.... The current president committed obstruction crimes... plain and simple... what anybody else did is irrelevant.... Two wrongs don't make a right and the only wrong that should matter in this debate is the presidents anyways. He and nobody else is morally righteous in committing wrongs(crimes)... especially PRESIDENTS.

With that I'm done.. Not going to waste my time debating someone, that has decided they will never change their mind. It's pointless....
 
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It doesn't matter how many times you yell "OBSTRUCTION!!!!", that doesn't change the facts about the origins (and failures) of the Mueller Investigation.

And I'm pointing out your ignorance and hypocrisy as Comey committed obstruction of justice yet for some reason you don't care. That makes you a partisan or extremely biased Trump hater.
 
I'm sorry Trump decided to obstruct the investigation into whether he colluded with Russia..... The worst part and act of obstruction, which isn't even technically considered obstruction is the fact that Trump had the power to basically fire attorney general Sessions and replace him because he was being investigated....lol..... and then replace him with his guy Whitaker, who wouldn't obstruct enough for Trump's liking, even though he tried to cutoff Mueller's funding and then Trump replaces Whitaker with his lackey Barr, who issued a litany of department of justice guidelines to Muellar on what he was allowed to say before the hearing.... What a loaded setup...lol
 
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I'm sorry Trump decided to obstruct the investigation into whether he colluded with Russia.....
but he didn't collude with Russia... does that even register? Do you even care? So much needs to be ignored in order to maintain your line of thinking.

This entire investigation has unravelled and is hanging by one very slim thread of obstruction.

And are you now saying that Barr is directing what Mueller is allowed to say? More conspiracy theories, excellent.

Sorry to gloat but I'm laughing so hard that his investigation turned out to be a massive farce, as I stated from the BEGINNING. I'm also laughing (and sympathetic a little) at the people still clinging to it hoping that it's going to go somewhere.
 
So Mueller knows they'll never be able to prove obstruction because the Mueller report says Trump was not found guilty of the underlying crime, so it's impossible to prove that Trump had a corrupt state of mind trying to cover up his crimes - understand?

Trump didn't even try to end the special counsel investigation, he just wanted Mueller gone due to a conflict of interest - which is completely understandable.

Mueller says his investigation was not obstructed in any way.

Are any leftists willing to drop all this after what we now know?


Here are 2 people that hate Trump that are discussing the facts. Radical Leftists - take note. You can't say these 2 are biased towards Trump either because they both want him gone.
 
In less than 30 minutes:


 
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