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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

US Politics The Mueller Investigation - report is out

Xorkoth said:
The report clearly states that ~$1.2M per week was spent by Russians to influence American politics. What disturbs me is that Trump supporters are so fixated on Trump having legitimately won that they choose to pretend this didn't happen... nah, Russia's harmless, they spent $4,700 total, they're totally not trying to undermine our country so they can firmly surpass us globally.

I'm willing to accept that Trump didn't knowingly collude with the Russians. But I'm not willing to ignore an alarming reality about the intentions and actions of the Russians.
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That's true, foreign election interference is unacceptable. So you must also condemn all US incidents of election interference? Including their involvement in the 2014 coup in Ukraine.
 
Xorkoth said:
But I'm not willing to ignore an alarming reality about the intentions and actions of the Russians.
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I have no doubt Russia has been active. I do have doubt that it was solely to support Trump (with or without his knowledge). I've been led to believe they (Russians) put material out for/against both candidates somewhat equally, and yet that's not getting much headlines. Maybe I'm wrong (it has happened before).
 
JGrimez said:
That's true, foreign election interference is unacceptable. So you must also condemn all US incidents of election interference? Including their involvement in the 2014 coup in Ukraine.
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Yes, absolutely. We should stop meddling in foreign affairs, too. I also condemn any past Russian election interference in other elections besides the 2016 one.
 
I'm actually willing to believe some Russians tried to help Trump. During the debates Trump preached cooperation with Russia while Hillary talked of installing a Syrian no-fly zone which would have been a direct military confrontation.

And people act shocked that Russia might favor Trump..

But then I saw the Russian trolls disseminated pro-Bernie and even some anti-Trump images. They organized an anti-Trump rally which IIRC Michael Moore attended. Why would they do that?

A lot of the damaging stuff they're blaming on Russians was really just accurate information regarding Hillary and her past. She herself was the one who allowed Russian hackers to take classified documents from her illegal server. But nobody is talking about that. Barely anyone here even knows about it. That's the actual Russian hacking scandal.

That along with the crazy fact that only one campaign took assistance from Russians in 2016.... and it was the Clinton campaign. Bizarro-world.
 
JGrimez said:
Hey look I laugh but any thing's possible and there's still a bit of time. But as things are going now - they don't have much of a chance at all. They lied too much - they stated confidently that Trump winning would be a disaster for America - and it arguably has been the exact opposite (it definitely wasn't the disaster they were promising).

So why would people vote against positive change and progress? And why would you vote for people who have blatantly lied to you about so many important things for so long?

Not to mention Trump's ability to play the media and make Dems look like they keep suffering losses. If they want a chance of winning they should stop talking about Trump at once and start pushing (sane) policies.
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You need to keep in mind that putting aside whatever the actual underlying truth is, a lot of people don't see it that way. A lot of people don't see progress, or do see disaster.

It doesn't really matter if that's actually true or who's right about trump, all that matters is how many people feel what. Now I don't have a definitive answer on that, but my feel is that with the right strategy and the right person, trump can be beaten in 2020.

Of course, whether the democrats will actually use the right strategy or the right person is another matter entirely. It's entirely plausible that won't happen and Trump will get reelected.

Time will tell.
 
The worst part of all of this is that Trump called for their help at a campaign rally, obviously received help with the release of the emails, has continued to deny the irrefutable fact that they even interfered in the elections, has said on National TV that he would accept such help again, continuously obstructed investigation into the exact depths of that interference and now, his puppet Mcconnell has shot down legislation to prevent future candidates from receiving future help or interference.

Republicans don't seem to care that our democratic and judicial processes are under attack from a sitting president. They are willing to defeat democrats at any cost. I can no longer even entertain the idea that people believe he didn't collude with Russia or attempt to obstruct justice. He basically did it on national tv and then admitted he would do it again and nobody cares.

I just wish people would admit that they think he pulled off a brilliant political maneuver and are thrilled with the fact that the democrats, as of yet, have been unable to conclusively tie him to direct collusion. I would have much more respect for them... again... wink and nod.... well played sir, well played. At least then I could stop believing that they were idiots and operate under the knowledge that they are just willing participants in a dirty, high stakes, political game, in which winning and sticking it to the Democrats, no matter what it takes, is the most important thing.

Believe me.... I understand. I'm also tired of a lot of the bullshit coming from the left.
 
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JGrimez said:
Israel loves Trump. Jews more or less love Trump (it's split but I'd say the majority). Why is Trump like Hitler? Who is he planning to genocide?

Such an amusingly ridiculous opinion.
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I really don't want to get into this because it is counterproductive to the issue at hand and draws the focus away from Trump's direct criminal actions. I'm not even trying to advance the Trump/Hitler connection but I found out yesterday that this amusingly, ridiculous opinion is shared by the foremost historian on the holocaust.

It has nothing to do with Jewish people. The article pretty much hits on how I feel without even mentioning the way he is now using deeply seeded racial tensions and fears to energize his base.

The conservatives and the PM of Germany, much like Mcconnell and the republicans, united with a dangerous outside agitator, to try and advance their own causes, without even realizing what kind of Faustian deal they had made.


From a Jewish publication site

More from Browning drawing parallels between Mcconnell and conservatives to the German PM and conservatives of yesteryear.
 
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JGrimez said:
I'm actually willing to believe some Russians tried to help Trump. During the debates Trump preached cooperation with Russia while Hillary talked of installing a Syrian no-fly zone which would have been a direct military confrontation.

And people act shocked that Russia might favor Trump..

But then I saw the Russian trolls disseminated pro-Bernie and even some anti-Trump images. They organized an anti-Trump rally which IIRC Michael Moore attended. Why would they do that?

A lot of the damaging stuff they're blaming on Russians was really just accurate information regarding Hillary and her past. She herself was the one who allowed Russian hackers to take classified documents from her illegal server. But nobody is talking about that. Barely anyone here even knows about it. That's the actual Russian hacking scandal.

That along with the crazy fact that only one campaign took assistance from Russians in 2016.... and it was the Clinton campaign. Bizarro-world.
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I think they're just trying to widen political divisions and increase the toxic partisan tribalism culture we have. I think they saw an opportunity and are running with it and have been for some time. The culture we have in our politics has basically crippled our democracy and continues to get worse. Nothing can get done anymore, every little thing is a partisan issue now and politicians won't budge. Meanwhile tensions among citizens are getting worse and worse. Conservative/Liberal are hate-filled swear words at this point. It sometimes feels like we consider ourselves different species. Russian trolls spend a lot of time replying in the comments of news articles and Facebook groups, with predictable, vitriolic hate from one side towards the other. it makes it seem like the problem is even worse than it is. The comments are designed to inspire rage and division.

basically I think they're doing everything in their power to destabilize our country and undermine public confidence in our democracy, both domestically and abroad.
 
somnilicious said:
The worst part of all of this is that Trump called for their help at a campaign rally, obviously received help with the release of the emails
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, Nice spin. Those emails hurt Hillary and others because they were full of incriminating stuff that nobody wishes to discuss. If that leak (most probably from Seth Rich to Wikileaks) helped Trump, that has nothing to do with him. Then you try to link that action to Trump making a joke (after ridiculous accusations) and said Russians should track down evidence of crimes (again people don't wanna discuss) of Hillary deleting evidence under subpoena.

You are talking so much nonsense, it's basically lying. I've noticed a lot of people lying here and spinning the facts in ridiculous ways, over and over.

If you're tired of bullshit from the Left then stop regurgitating their drivel.
 
somnilicious said:
I really don't want to get into this because it is counterproductive to the issue at hand and draws the focus away from Trump's direct criminal actions. I'm not even trying to advance the Trump/Hitler connection but I found out yesterday that this amusingly, ridiculous opinion is shared by the foremost historian on the holocaust.

It has nothing to do with Jewish people. The article pretty much hits on how I feel without even mentioning the way he is now using deeply seeded racial tensions and fears to energize his base.

The conservatives and the PM of Germany, much like Mcconnell and the republicans, united with a dangerous outside agitator, to try and advance their own causes, without even realizing what kind of Faustian deal they had made.


From a Jewish publication site

More from Browning drawing parallels between Mcconnell and conservatives to the German PM and conservatives of yesteryear.
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There are many Jews in the media and the media hate Trump but I said most Jews support him and that's true based on my time in Israel.

Minorities are doing better under Trump and he's gaining support among them so that already destroys any Hitler comparisons. It's actually a really stupid comparison that makes me laugh. Trump is a capitalist that detests socialism, Hitler was a national socialist. The only thing in common really is their Nationalism, and fucking Gandhi was a nationalist. ZOMG GANDHI IS HITLER.

It's such a stupid line of thinking, I pity anyone that's so desperate and uneducated to entertain it.

Trump is actually putting the interests of Israel over the USA and that's one of the things I criticize him for.

Hitler... ???????
 
Xorkoth said:
I think they're just trying to widen political divisions and increase the toxic partisan tribalism culture we have. I think they saw an opportunity and are running with it and have been for some time. The culture we have in our politics has basically crippled our democracy and continues to get worse. Nothing can get done anymore, every little thing is a partisan issue now and politicians won't budge. Meanwhile tensions among citizens are getting worse and worse. Conservative/Liberal are hate-filled swear words at this point. It sometimes feels like we consider ourselves different species. Russian trolls spend a lot of time replying in the comments of news articles and Facebook groups, with predictable, vitriolic hate from one side towards the other. it makes it seem like the problem is even worse than it is. The comments are designed to inspire rage and division.

basically I think they're doing everything in their power to destabilize our country and undermine public confidence in our democracy, both domestically and abroad.
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Well you're wrong and you're being distracted. Blaming Russians instead of taking responsibility for domestic issues is just ridiculous. The media brainwashing is real.
 
JGrimez said:
You are talking so much nonsense, it's basically lying. I've noticed a lot of people lying here and spinning the facts in ridiculous ways, over and over.

If you're tired of bullshit from the Left then stop regurgitating their drivel.
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JGrimez said:
It's such a stupid line of thinking, I pity anyone that's so desperate and uneducated to entertain it.
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Tone it down.
 
JGrimez said:
There are many Jews in the media and the media hate Trump but I said most Jews support him and that's true based on my time in Israel.

Minorities are doing better under Trump and he's gaining support among them so that already destroys any Hitler comparisons. It's actually a really stupid comparison that makes me laugh. Trump is a capitalist that detests socialism, Hitler was a national socialist. The only thing in common really is their Nationalism, and fucking Gandhi was a nationalist. ZOMG GANDHI IS HITLER.

It's such a stupid line of thinking, I pity anyone that's so desperate and uneducated to entertain it.

Trump is actually putting the interests of Israel over the USA and that's one of the things I criticize him for.

Hitler... ???????
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You obviously didn't read any of the articles. None of what you said has anything to do with the parallels in the articles whatsoever or anything I said.... It is a non sequitur.
 
JGrimez said:
, Nice spin. Those emails hurt Hillary and others because they were full of incriminating stuff that nobody wishes to discuss. If that leak (most probably from Seth Rich to Wikileaks) helped Trump, that has nothing to do with him. Then you try to link that action to Trump making a joke (after ridiculous accusations) and said Russians should track down evidence of crimes (again people don't wanna discuss) of Hillary deleting evidence under subpoena.

You are talking so much nonsense, it's basically lying. I've noticed a lot of people lying here and spinning the facts in ridiculous ways, over and over.

If you're tired of bullshit from the Left then stop regurgitating their drivel.
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The next day the emails were released.
You can't excuse your actions by saying it's a joke, especially statements as a politician.

There were no crimes in the emails btw... Only embarrassing stuff.. Facts buddy.


Does the fact that Trump's campaign manager Manafort was convicted of being a foreign agent and gave US polling data to Russian GRU groups to conduct their Facebook attacks bother you? Are we to believe that as autocratic as Trump is that he didn't approve these acts or are we going to just go with he's a clueless and inept manager? Was he a rogue campaign manager?
 
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somnilicious said:

The next day the emails were released.
You can't excuse your actions by saying it's a joke, especially statements as a politician.

There were no crimes in the emails btw... Only embarrassing stuff.. Facts buddy.
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Wow you are now blatantly lying. Comey even stated that she had classified information on her server. That's a crime.

Trump joked that Russians should find the deleted emails from her server. The emails released were from the DNC which are completely different.

I also think that you're lying about the dates of the emails being released. I'd have to check but based on your previous lies I'd bet that is nonsense.

If this is the best you've got then you've got nothing.

It was also hilarious that Trump made that joke regarding Hillary's illegal activity (that people don't want to discuss and in your case, will blatantly lie about).

But I might give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you simply don't know anything about the Clinton server scandal versus the DNC leak
 
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@JGrimez ....Does the fact that Trump's campaign manager Manafort was convicted of conspiracy as a foreign agent for a Russian backed group to over throw the Ukrainian goverment and gave US polling data to Russian GRU groups to conduct their Facebook attacks bother you? Are we to believe that as autocratic as Trump is that he didn't approve the release of this data or are we going to just go with- Trumps a clueless and inept manager? Was Manafort a rogue campaign manager?
 
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