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Harm Reduction Cold Water Extraction (CWE) Mega Thread & FAQ v2.0

ShroomySatori said:
What's wrong with using 50mL per dose? There is still only so much that can be in there without it being cloudy that is safe. I like 100mg / 50mL, solution always super clear. After being clean for a year that is enough when I actually require pain relief.

If I use any less water I run into problems that reduce the efficiency of the process.
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Yeah I agree and while 100mg is fine for just a painkilling dose, most people using codeine recreationally will be using many times that amount...

I think the main problem with using very small amounts of water is that any percentage of the solution lost to things like moisture spreading throughout the filter paper and not dripping through into the collecting cup, represents a greater loss in the final product the less water is used... i.e. losing say 5ml of water this way represents a much greater loss of the drug being extracted if only 50ml is used compared to if 150ml is used.. (hope that makes sense).

The easiest way to calculate how much water to use is to work out the solubility of the APAP (paracetamol) in ice cold water and use the amount of water that equates to having1000mg of paracetamol in the final product.. i e. If the solubility of paracetamol is 100mg in 30ml of ice cold water then use 300mg of ice cold water and ensure that your solution is kept at that temperature by adding an ice cube and keeping it in the fridge while its filtering (NB...I've just made that solubility figure up to make the math easier to understand... please look up the solubility of paracetamol in water at various temperatures first)
 
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apocalypse_when said:
Yeah I agree and while 100mg is fine for just a painkilling dose, most people using codeine recreationally will be using many times that amount...

I think the main problem with using very small amounts of water is that any percentage of the solution lost to things like moisture spreading throughout the filter paper and not dripping through into the collecting cup, represents a greater loss in the final product the less water is used... i.e. losing say 5ml of water this way represents a much greater loss of the drug being extracted if only 50ml is used compared to is 150ml is used.. (hope that makes sense).

The easiest way to calculate how much water to use is to work out the solubility of the APAP (paracetamol) in ice cold water and use the amount of water that equates to having1000mg of paracetamol in the final product.. i e. If the solubility of paracetamol is 100mg in 30ml of ice cold water then use 300mg of ice cold water and ensure that your solution is kept at that temperature by adding an ice cube and keeping it in the fridge while its filtering (NB...I've just made that solubility figure up to make the math easier to understand... please look up the solubility of paracetamol in water at various temperatures first)
Click to expand...

Fuckin hell AW, it's 'maths', not 'math' 8( ;)

50ml of water is more than enough to dissolve a recreational dose of codeine whilst ensuring a dangerous dose of paracetamol is not also consumed (solubilities of the respective substances can easily be acquired online). The only issue with using small quantities of water like this is the filtering - the gak from the pills can easily clog the filter. The trick is to use a filter which doesnt easily tear - therefore forget coffee filters. I use a couple of sheets of kitchen paper on top of a fine microfibre cloth - all prewetted to prevent loss of goodies from absorption. This allows the liquid to be squeezed through rather than waiting for it to filter by gravity. It does result in a more cloudy solution, but it's nothing to worry about. I can do the whole process in 10 minutes tops using this method.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Fuckin hell AW, it's 'maths', not 'math' 8( ;)

50ml of water is more than enough to dissolve a recreational dose of codeine whilst ensuring a dangerous dose of paracetamol is not also consumed (solubilities of the respective substances can easily be acquired online). The only issue with using small quantities of water like this is the filtering - the gak from the pills can easily clog the filter. The trick is to use a filter which doesnt easily tear - therefore forget coffee filters. I use a couple of sheets of kitchen paper on top of a fine microfibre cloth - all prewetted to prevent loss of goodies from absorption. This allows the liquid to be squeezed through rather than waiting for it to filter by gravity. It does result in a more cloudy solution, but it's nothing to worry about. I can do the whole process in 10 minutes tops using this method.
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Yeah i know its maths but 99% of this forum are septics who don't know what the fuck "maths" even is :)
 
GucciSwimmingSuits said:
Yeah codeine can be pretty random(maybe it's because with CWE you get a different dose every time)

I almost never get an uncomfortable itch from it, but about a month ago I got a pretty strong histamine reaction. Usually it's barely noticeable, I can be high as shit and the slight itchiness is enjoyable if anything, but that time it was pretty crazy. The only thing different that time was that about 4 hours before dosing I ate some really sour apples. Didn't eat anything else, the dose wasn't too high, but the itchiness was wild. The effects weren't that strong either as far as sedation and euphoria go. The next time everything was back to normal.

Maybe sour fruits potentiate only certain effects? We all heard about eating grapefruits potentiating codeine, but from what I've gathered on the internet it doesn't affect your high in any noticeable way
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Has anyone had similar experiences?
 
G.S.S said:
We all heard about eating grapefruits potentiating codeine, but from what I've gathered on the internet it doesn't affect your high in any noticeable way
Click to expand...


While I can't speak to the H-1 reaction, I would stay away from Grapefruits or their Juice when dealing with Codeine specifically. It can inhibit some of the CYP 450 enzymes responsible for converting the Methyl Morphine (codeine) to Morphine. Then there's the argument for codeine-6-glucuronide as well.
 
Jekyl Anhydride said:
While I can't speak to the H-1 reaction, I would stay away from Grapefruits or their Juice when dealing with Codeine specifically. It can inhibit some of the CYP 450 enzymes responsible for converting the Methyl Morphine (codeine) to Morphine. Then there's the argument for codeine-6-glucuronide as well.
Click to expand...

Iirc there's been a study demonstrating that CYP2D6 poor metabolizers still get analgesic effects from codeine implicating that the main analgesic effects come from C-6-G and not morphine. But then there's contrary info out there as well. And UGT2B7 has different genotypes as well, making it even harder to know what's going on.

Edit:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11092114
Eighty per cent of codeine is conjugated with glucuronic acid to codeine-6-glucuronide. Only 5% of the dose is O-demethylated to morphine, which in turn is immediately glucuronidated at the 3- and 6-position and excreted renally. Based on the structural requirement of the opiate molecule for interaction with the mu-receptor to result in analgesia, codeine-6-glucuronide in analogy to morphine-6-glucuronide must be the active constituent of codeine. Poor metabolisers of codeine, those who lack the CYP450 2D6 isoenzyme for the O-demethylation to morphine, experience analgesia from codeine-6-glucuronide. Analgesia of codeine does not depend on the formation of morphine and the metaboliser phenotype.
Click to expand...
 
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F.U.B.A.R. said:
Fuckin hell AW, it's 'maths', not 'math' 8( ;)50ml of water is more than enough to dissolve a recreational dose of codeine whilst ensuring a dangerous dose of paracetamol is not also consumed (solubilities of the respective substances can easily be acquired online). The only issue with using small quantities of water like this is the filtering - the gak from the pills can easily clog the filter. The trick is to use a filter which doesnt easily tear - therefore forget coffee filters. I use a couple of sheets of kitchen paper on top of a fine microfibre cloth - all prewetted to prevent loss of goodies from absorption. This allows the liquid to be squeezed through rather than waiting for it to filter by gravity. It does result in a more cloudy solution, but it's nothing to worry about. I can do the whole process in 10 minutes tops using this method.
Click to expand...
I got an awesome tshirt that has the texture of a cheese cloth so I cut some squares off with scissors and have a reusable filter the solution is usually pretty cloudy like fubars but there is always plenty of gunk in the filter etc.
 
Pete556 said:
I got an awesome tshirt that has the texture of a cheese cloth so I cut some squares off with scissors and have a reusable filter the solution is usually pretty cloudy like fubars but there is always plenty of gunk in the filter etc.
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I always had spot on results using coffee filters which are cheap as chips from the supermarket.
 
Ok from my experimentation, you?re desired result is a near clear liquid, maybe just a hint of ?foggy? or ever so slightly cloudy.
It is imperative that you observe all of your weights and measurements. (I have a milligram scale from the RC benzo stage of my life)
Known solvent (water in this case, below a certain temperature, total mL etc)
Exact weight of the total pills combined
Then the exact weight of the solvent plus the weight of the pills.
In the end your shooting for 90%
 
Copied from a post I made in EADD..

I always just used standard Co-Codamol (cheaper) and you didn't need to crush them but they dissolved quicker if you did... If the solution is room temp and the pills completely disintegrate you just have to give it a good stir and all the codeine will have dissolved.... I then chucked 2 ice cubes in until the solution was cold to the touch and then filter through pre-dampened coffee filters.. leave it for an hour or so until all the liquid has gone through into the glass and there's just a white mush left in the filter.. You can then give this a wash by pouring a small amount of cold water through the mush in the filter to get the last bit of codeine out..

If you want to be extra safe you can then take your collected liquid and cool it down again (in case the temp has risen to room temp in the time it took to filter).. run this through a new pre-dampened filter and it will pass through in minutes.. there maybe a slight white residue left in this filter paper which represents the last of the paracetamol..

This is a bit of a fuck on doing it like this but it will capture. 95%+ of the.codeine and very little of the paracetamol...the solution will taste very bitter...
 
Jekyl Anhydride said:
While I can't speak to the H-1 reaction, I would stay away from Grapefruits or their Juice when dealing with Codeine specifically. It can inhibit some of the CYP 450 enzymes responsible for converting the Methyl Morphine (codeine) to Morphine.
Then there's the argument for codeine-6-glucuronide as well.
Click to expand...

kleinerkiffer said:
Iirc there's been a study demonstrating that CYP2D6 poor metabolizers still get analgesic effects from codeine implicating that the main analgesic effects come from C-6-G and not morphine. But then there's contrary info out there as well. And UGT2B7 has different genotypes as well, making it even harder to know what's going on.
Click to expand...
Edit:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11092114

Eighty per cent of codeine is conjugated with glucuronic acid to codeine-6-glucuronide. Only 5% of the dose is O-demethylated to morphine, which in turn is immediately glucuronidated at the 3- and 6-position and excreted renally. Based on the structural requirement of the opiate molecule for interaction with the mu-receptor to result in analgesia, codeine-6-glucuronide in analogy to morphine-6-glucuronide must be the active constituent of codeine. Poor metabolisers of codeine, those who lack the CYP450 2D6 isoenzyme for the O-demethylation to morphine, experience analgesia from codeine-6-glucuronide. Analgesia of codeine does not depend on the formation of morphine and the metaboliser phenotype.
Click to expand...

.

Lack of influence of codeine on experimental pain in PM as well as in EM treated with the CYP2D6 blocker quinidine, who are both practically unable to convert codeine to morphine,
has supported an old hypothesis that codeine acts through metabolically formed morphine. Possibly, local codeine O-demethylation in the CNS is of major importance for its hypoalgesic effect. Such a local morphine formation from codeine, which supposedly is also catalysed by CYP2D6, could explain why the hypoalgesic effect of codeine stems from morphine despite relatively low plasma levels of morphine after standard hypoalgesic doses of codeine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8845855
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I guess this is why I called it the codeine-6-glucuronide argument, though C-6-G pulling most if not all the weight seems quite plausible. :)
 
mmm 500mg of codeine just waiting for the bitch at the chemist nahh I know shes doing her job once I got my meds I can go get the best christmas present bargains in town
 
rolitlan said:
I need opinion on my codeine solution. 20 tablets 15mg codeine, 500mg paracetamol in 60ml of water. Here's the picture: https://imgur.com/a/KFSQ3Qz
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The solution looks fine, as in not having anything clumped on the bottom of the glass, but IME it's the amount of "Sludge" left over in the filter that determines how well it went. Unfortunately no one can say it's 'safe' from pics.
 
Jekyl Anhydride said:
The solution looks fine, as in not having anything clumped on the bottom of the glass, but IME it's the amount of "Sludge" left over in the filter that determines how well it went. Unfortunately no one can say it's 'safe' from pics.
Click to expand...
Okey I'll remember that for the future. Thanks for the answer :)
 
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