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2017 Trump Presidency Thread

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It's astonishing to me that we're arguing over wheather Donald Trump is a racist or not.
It's astonishing to me that almost everyone in this thread (self-proclaimed educated individuals) are completely certain that Trump is a racist however they cannot definitively prove it. Thank you for answering my request however.

Alisdair put together a nice catalog of Trump's intolerance.
I explained how those examples were not racist. Still waiting for a reply, explaining exactly how any of those claims were racist. "This is obviously racist" is not a justification, you have to explain why one considers something racist or not.

Campaigning on the promise to institute a Muslim ban in the US
Did this ban all Muslims? No, it was about the vetting of refugees from countries full of terrorists. Also Muslim is not a race.

Accusing Latin American immigrants to the US of being animals and criminals
He was referring to illegal aliens. If it's the quote I am thinking of he mentioned that Mexicans were sending bad people across the border which is true. He also stated that some are good people. It would be nice of you to post exact quotes of someone when attempting to label them a racist so we can dissect their actual words, as I won't trust someone to decipher a message who has already made up their mind .

Elevating a known racist (Steve Bannon) to a cabinet position
Known racist? Known by who? The deceptive media? Someone is only a "known racist" if you can prove it. I've yet to see anyone prove that Steven Bannon is racist.

Elevating a truly world-class racist (Jefferson Beauregard Sessions) to Attorney General
See above - evidence?

Feeding and capitalizing on the bullshit 'birther' movement against Barack Obama
How is that racist? If a US presidential candidate was born overseas then citizens have the right to investigate. It was actually Hillary that was racist against Obama - she circulated a picture of him in African attire (does anyone claim that Hillary is racist?)

Using his twitter account to promote false, racist memes (a nice catalog of these is available here...OK this one wasn't off the top of my head; I had to google it)
* and of course...giving moral cover to armed white nationalists marauding in Charlottesville, VA
How is this racist? The figures he posted may have been inaccurate but the message is true. Most blacks are killed by other blacks. You could state that he posted incorrect statistics but it was not racist.

Is it really necessary to keep listing examples?
Yes, until you quote something racist.

Ultimately, the question that I find interesting in this arena is, to what extent does Trump believe the racist bullshit he spews?
So everyone here thinks Trump is racist. At least I will address and dissect the points that people bring up. What I'm wondering is how come nobody will address the conflicting evidence? Anyone care to comment on this video? Didn't think so..

liquidmethod seems determined to reject evidence that does not agree with his view.
I used to consider Trump racist during the primaries. Even the best of us get conned by media BS sometimes. Then a friend asked me to prove to him that Trump was racist. I thought it would be easy but I tried and failed. Just like everyone here is trying and failing. I am willing to alter my stance if you can provide evidence of Trump being racist.

for me, his statements about judge gonzalo curiel are pretty much all you need to know. "he can't do his job because he's mexican" (the fact that he's not mexican aside ) is the textbook definition of racism.
Mexican is not a race so it is nowhere near the 'textbook' definition. What Trump was stating was that there was a potential conflict of interest in the case and that the judge was not acting impartially. Trump planned to build a wall on the border and thought that a judge that had it out for him might further use that to rule unfairly against him (biased and corrupted judges are common). Was the comment unnecessary, unprofessional and distasteful? Definitely. Racist? No.

And that is indeed quite strange because it's so obvious. He asked for evidences and even though he's gotten plenty of them he just dismisses them all (as you called it). As if they were nothing important or relevant
Unlike you all who throw out these heinous accusation willy-nilly, I actually take racism very seriously which is why I want to get to the bottom of these claims. I have no received "plenty" - so far there were 2 examples that I can understand how they were perceived as racist, but on further inspection I explained how they were not.

We need evidence to be able to prove a claim - I'm sure we would all agree with this statement.
 
Mexican is not a race...
oh, this old chestnut. jewish is not a race either. nor is muslim so he can't be racist.

ok. 2 points to you. you win this one.

donald trump is a disgusting bigot. there. let's move on.

What Trump was stating was that there was a potential conflict of interest in the case and that the judge was not acting impartially.
no.

what trump said was that because he was mexican (and he wasn't) he couldn't act impartially. quite different and unacceptable.

by the same yardstick, trump is german (he has german heritage). should he recuse himself from anything to do with germany as he can't be impartial about germany?

but, i'm interested to hear some substantiation of the judge's bias - would you point to some cases where his bias has been on display. if he is biased, shouldn't be hard for you to provide an example or two.

in the meantime, here's some related reading: The Decisions of Judge Curiel

Curiel’s record over ten years on the state and federal bench doesn’t give a lot of evidence to support claims of a pro-Latino bias or political partisanship. Curiel has not held any elected office or given services to any party or political campaign. In 2008 and 2010, he endorsed four candidates to be elected judges in the Superior Court of San Diego. Three won, one lost; candidates are not listed on the ballot by party.
...
Curiel’s pre-judicial career is best known for his fight against Mexican drug cartels. He spent from 1989 to 2006 in prosecutorial roles in the U.S. attorney’s office in San Diego and Los Angeles and was chief of the Narcotics Section from 1999 to 2002. He was given a Special Act Award for his efforts to dismantle the Tijuana Cartel at the Department of Justice during the Bush administration.

Trump planned to build a wall on the border and thought that a judge that had it out for him might further use that to rule unfairly against him...

very interesting. what evidence is there that curiel 'had it out for' trump? now, surely, you're just fabricating nonsense?

"he can't be impartial because he's mexican" is pathetic. not to mention, again, the fact that he's not mexican...

alasdair
 
"he can't be impartial because he's mexican" is pathetic. not to mention, again, the fact that he's not mexican...
I agree it was pretty pathetic. But not racist.

He obviously has a personal agenda against the man (they've had previous legal encounters). I do not know who is in the "wrong" here but like I said his comments were distasteful. And yes some judges are just straight psychopathic assholes.
 
He obviously has a personal agenda against the man (they've had previous legal encounters). I do not know who is in the "wrong" here but like I said his comments were distasteful.
second time asking: i'm interested to hear some substantiation of the judge's bias - would you point to some cases where his bias has been on display. if he is biased, shouldn't be hard for you to provide an example or two.

second time asking: trump is german (he has german heritage). should he recuse himself from anything to do with germany as he can't be impartial about germany?

second time asking: what evidence is there that curiel 'had it out for' trump

And yes some judges are just straight psychopathic assholes.
we're not talking about some judges. we're talking about federal justice curiel? or are you? are you saying he's a straight psychopathic asshole?

alasdair
 
Stop shifting the goalposts. All of that is irrelevant. I said I do not know who (if anyone) is in the wrong here.
That judge may be a patriotic bastion of justice, a solid pillar of his community that shoots rainbows out of his ass - the point here is that Trump's comments were not racist.

Do you have anything else that proves Trump is a racist? I believe I've seen it all and the evidence is far from conclusive.
 
I don't agree with what? I specifically said that I agree with you earlier.
Will you admit that you have failed to prove that Trump is a racist?
 
No. You failed to accept patent facts that Ali presented that prove Trump has been a racist for some time - prior to, during, and after his presidential campaign. He still currently holds these views and acts accordingly.

Trump is a racist and more.
 
This video proves you and your fake narrative completely wrong.

17 years of disavowing racism over and over and over - while the media continues to lie.

I am honestly appalled and disgusted by how you all are ignoring facts and reality to further your identity politics agenda.
 
If disavowing it was all it took, there wouldn't be any hate crime convictions.

And if it was that easy, why didn't the President do it this time (on the first try)?
 
You seem to forget that Trump contradicts himself as needed. He is an utterly pathologically shameless liar.
Just because he says Jeff Sessions is a great guy one day, he will berate him repeatedly if he is inconvenient and even lie about why Sessions supported him during the campaign.
Sessions isn't someone I hold in regard, but there is a very good chance Trump wouldn't have won without him. It showed Trump has no loyalty and that everyone is dispensable except his useless family employees.
So you can show as many moments from his lying life as you want. He allied himself with the white supremacy movement and it fit his racist beliefs like a glove.
 
No it shows who is actually working for him, and whose loyalties lie with the Deep State/establishment.
Not easy to run a country when only 20% of the staff in your administration were chosen by you, and the rest are Obama staffers actively trying to bring you down.
He has a consistent track record of disavowing racism over almost two decades.
 
No it shows who is actually working for him, and whose loyalties lie with the Deep State/establishment.
Not easy to run a country when only 20% of the staff in your administration were chosen by you, and the rest are Obama staffers actively trying to bring you down.
He has a consistent track record of disavowing racism over almost two decades.

Again (repeating what cduggles argued): disavowels are cheap, and for Trump they often serve as a way for him to have his rhetorical cake and eat it too. He throws red meat to his base and then acts surprised and victimized by the "BS media" (as you call them).

LiquidMethod, you're impossible to argue with. Not because you're too smart. It's because you have a naive idea of how arguments on the subject of history and/or current affairs proceed. You keep asking for proof. And I suppose that in a logical sense, no, nobody has shown you proof that Trump is a racist. But when it comes to history, we almost never have proof. Instead we have evidence for and against certain points. Ultimately, historical consensus is arrived at by interrogating the preponderance of evidence on a subject. I believe that the preponderance of the evidence lies much more strong in favor of the belief that Trump is a racist. Clearly you don't believe that. I don't think we're going to make any headway in this argument.

By the way, before you continue to rail against people for not commenting on the video you posted...I watched it. And to my thinking it provides very weak evidence against viewing Trump as racist. Again, statements are easy to make. Very few racists sit for public interviews and wax rhapsodic about their atavistic, bilious beliefs. A catalog of statements of open-mindedness by a man who has no compunction about lying doesn't carry us very far.

<3 Sim
 
OK well, what's better than words, actions? Being the first to allow blacks to become members of his private club, is that an act of a racist person? This was a long time ago.

And I suppose that in a logical sense, no, nobody has shown you proof that Trump is a racist. But when it comes to history, we almost never have proof. Instead we have evidence for and against certain points. Ultimately, historical consensus is arrived at by interrogating the preponderance of evidence on a subject. I believe that the preponderance of the evidence lies much more strong in favor of the belief that Trump is a racist. Clearly you don't believe that. I don't think we're going to make any headway in this argument.

Did you just switch the words proof and evidence? Yes I understand we come to our conclusions based on evidence, that's why I keep asking everyone for the exact evidence (apparently there is so much!) that they used to form their opinions that Trump is racist. I have evidence to the contrary. Isn't that how this works? We compare contrasting evidence and the stronger case confirms reality. The reason I'm a cunt to argue with is because I know how exactly how you all are thinking - I too thought that Trump was racist. I never really cared for Trump pre-politics and then all I saw of him during the primaries was via the BS media. I was convinced he was a racist. I actually supported Sanders before I dug into his voting history (and when he rolled over for Hillary in the debates). But then I also dug into Trump's past and stopped listening to the media's lies. Voila my opinion of him changed. I was wrong.

Now I'm open to flipping back into the racist camp but y'all gotta present a solid case.
 
Excellent post Simco! It pretty much sums it all up.

I've read an interesting article in The Economist

"Donald Trump has no grasp of what it means to be president"

It considers the presidency of Donald Trump. This week he failed the simplest of tests: finding a way to condemn Nazis. His attempt to equate the far-right protest and its counter-demonstration in Charlottesville was politically inept and morally wrong. His inability to see beyond himself suggests that he doesn't have the character to change.
 
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Excellent post! It pretty much sums it all up.

I've read an interesting article in The Economist

"Donald Trump has no grasp of what it means to be president"

It considers the presidency of Donald Trump. This week he failed the simplest of tests: finding a way to condemn Nazis. His attempt to equate the far-right protest and its counter-demonstration in Charlottesville was politically inept and morally wrong. His inability to see beyond himself suggests that he doesn't have the character to change.
I can't believe he actually doubled down and morally equated white nationalists to the left. I mean come on, this is soft ball politics! He clearly doesn't really understand the implications of what he said or worse: he doesn't give a shit. It's a sad week to be an American. Make America great again... what a fucking joke.
 
^ Yes, I know. I was referring to Simco's post. About your message, you're absolutely right.
 
he can't admit he's wrong. other examples include his ridiculous birther campaign and his baseless claim that obama had trump tower phones taped.

alasdair
 
OK well, what's better than words, actions?

Yes I understand we come to our conclusions based on evidence, that's why I keep asking everyone for the exact evidence (apparently there is so much!) that they used to form their opinions that Trump is racist. I have evidence to the contrary. Isn't that how this works? We compare contrasting evidence and the stronger case confirms reality. The reason I'm a cunt to argue with is because I know how exactly how you all are thinking - I too thought that Trump was racist. I never really cared for Trump pre-politics and then all I saw of him during the primaries was via the BS media. I was convinced he was a racist. I actually supported Sanders before I dug into his voting history (and when he rolled over for Hillary in the debates). But then I also dug into Trump's past and stopped listening to the media's lies. Voila my opinion of him changed. I was wrong.

Now I'm open to flipping back into the racist camp but y'all gotta present a solid case.

So stopped listening to the media. But you cannot ignore his actions as a president. Start with ineptness. Trump said what was needed on Monday and then undid all his "good work" on Tuesday-briefly uniting Fox News and Mother Jones in their criticism. As business leaders started to resign en masse from his advisory panels, the WH disbanded him. Trump did, however, earn the endorsement of David Duke, a former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.

Trump has complicated the task of containing their marches and keeping the peace. The harm will spill over into the rest of his agenda too.

At the root of it all is Mr Trump's temperament. In difficult times a president has a duty to unite the nation. He tried in Monday's press conference, but could not sustain the effort for 24 hours because he cannot get beyond himself. "A president needs to rise above the point-scoring and act in the national interest. Trump cannot see beyond he latest slight. Instead of grasping that his job is to honour the office he inherited, Trump is bothered only about honouring himself and taking credit for his supposed achievements."

His actions? America is cleft in two. After threatening nuclear war with NK, musing about invading Venezuela and equivocating over Charlottesville?
 
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