I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

[Nagelfar]

noror, the reason is, the 3-benzoyloxy (of cocaine) already gives it more 5-HTT affinity than, say the 3-phenyl (troparil), perhaps a phenyltropane with the methylenedioxy, but there seems to be an issue with binding a ring with oxygen, the napthyl seems to have good affinity. Also, releasers (substrates) like MDMA, and uptake inhibitors like cocaine, MPH, PTs, are different in the mechanism of action.

 

[Nagelfar]

Just a thought.

 

[adder]

Diastereomers can often be separated by such simple means as column chromatography on unmodified silica gel. As for the separation of enantiomers via derivatization with a chiral auxiliary - this leads either to preferential formation of one diastereomer or mixture of diastereomers with different physical properties and thus can be resolved using extraction, crystallization, chromatography etc. (an example being separation of amphetamine enantiomers with D- or L-tartaric acid by the formation of a diastereomeric salt). But derivatization with chiral auxiliaries don't always work for all compounds, so we have asymmetric synthesis and many methods thereof. Chiral pool synthesis is a method based on the use of enantiopure substrates that will react in a stereospecific manner, but this can be very expensive. Chiral auxiliaries can be also incorporated temporarily into the structure to differentiate between faces of double bonds in a chemical reaction (e.g. Evans' oxazolidinones are a great example of this and their use revolutionized stereoselective aldol reactions) or two alkyl groups or two protons of a methylene unit. Chiral auxiliaries can be recovered after their job is done, but their use requires those additional steps of incorporating them into your compound and then getting them off. So far the most optimal approach in my opinion is the use of chiral ligands binding to metal atoms in organometallics which impact the stereochemical outcome of a reaction but other than that are essentially spectator ligands, a great example of this is stereoselective catalytic hydrogenation of double bonds in alkenes, ketones, and imines, again a reaction that changed a lot in organic chemistry and pharmaceutical industry (look up the synthesis of L-DOPA). The goal of any organic reaction developed is to end up useful for the industry which deals with bulk quantities of chemicals and then it is more practical to obtain your chiral compound in asymmetric synthesis rather to have to separate isomers at a late stage during multi-step synthesis.

 

[Pomzazed]

Sorry, synthesis discussion is not allowed here.
Btw, what will happen when you mix those is a crap with mixed composition (aka organic lab junk crude)

You have 2 phase of rxn there, one nonpolar consisting of thinner n gasoline, with iodine preferentially dissolve in that phase
one aqueous with pyridinium carboxylic acid (salt from nicotinic pyridine position and HCl
Dropping in P4 in that the intermediate PI3 would suddenly react with water to HI,
Which should does...nothing on 2-carboxypyridinium chloride you have in aq phase.


For the first reaction in the quote, younwont form oxime just be "mixing" them only and do nothing else (eg removal of water or like). Ahem, but lets assume you already have the oxime, the condition of working up you provide will break (hydrolyse) it apart back to starting material (liquid) so you wont retain a thing on your filter paper.


Btw, synthesis does not work like "just put this in and put that in, mix, shake, filter", that would give weird junk product. aka. "Street Drug cooking", which is a very different thing than real org. Syn.

Lets say crocodyl then, they put random crap in and get a crude product with some psychoactive compd in that, but then whats inside? At least 50+ random toxic craps like iodinated pdts, leftover phosphorus cmpd, which gives ppl crocodyl syndrome (...flesh rotten and limb falling off)

That is very different than "desomorphine" which is properly made, characterize ans tested!


Other comparative example is like when you want to make a cake, instead you put whole egg with eggshell in (bcos it has egg content), then throw raw rice grain in(bcos it has starch) dump sugarcane(bcos of sucrose and glucose, why not.) etc, then put in a blender(mix) and throw these mixture directly to open flame(need heat to cook).... and wishing you will get the nicely baked cake....

That's imposiburu... but its the same kind of logic how "drug cooker" and "organic chemist" works differently.

Im not posting to discourage you, instead I just want to say that if ink you have an idea and interest in these thing, first gonna study the basic how-to in chemistry (gen chem plus org chem would somewhat suffice) and you then can satisfy yourself and start having idea of creation of novel stuffs.

Like, you learn basic food cooking on how to prepare ingredient, how to fry, how to boil, how to bake, etc first, then your imagination of making new food menu can kick in with high possibility.

Not... cooking just need ingredient and heat, so lets mix random food ingredient and throw them to open flame! (And get a burnt charcoal as result)

 

[Solipsis]

We clearly need 'instant meals' but you'd probably get F'ed by the DA marketing that..

 

[Kenn Bish]

Sorry, synthesis discussion is not allowed here.
Btw, what will happen when you mix those is a crap with mixed composition (aka organic lab junk crude)

You have 2 phase of rxn there, one nonpolar consisting of thinner n gasoline, with iodine preferentially dissolve in that phase
one aqueous with pyridinium carboxylic acid (salt from nicotinic pyridine position and HCl
Dropping in P4 in that the intermediate PI3 would suddenly react with water to HI,
Which should does...nothing on 2-carboxypyridinium chloride you have in aq phase.


For the first reaction in the quote, younwont form oxime just be "mixing" them only and do nothing else (eg removal of water or like). Ahem, but lets assume you already have the oxime, the condition of working up you provide will break (hydrolyse) it apart back to starting material (liquid) so you wont retain a thing on your filter paper.


Btw, synthesis does not work like "just put this in and put that in, mix, shake, filter", that would give weird junk product. aka. "Street Drug cooking", which is a very different thing than real org. Syn.

Lets say crocodyl then, they put random crap in and get a crude product with some psychoactive compd in that, but then whats inside? At least 50+ random toxic craps like iodinated pdts, leftover phosphorus cmpd, which gives ppl crocodyl syndrome (...flesh rotten and limb falling off)

That is very different than "desomorphine" which is properly made, characterize ans tested!


Other comparative example is like when you want to make a cake, instead you put whole egg with eggshell in (bcos it has egg content), then throw raw rice grain in(bcos it has starch) dump sugarcane(bcos of sucrose and glucose, why not.) etc, then put in a blender(mix) and throw these mixture directly to open flame(need heat to cook).... and wishing you will get the nicely baked cake....

That's imposiburu... but its the same kind of logic how "drug cooker" and "organic chemist" works differently.

Im not posting to discourage you, instead I just want to say that if ink you have an idea and interest in these thing, first gonna study the basic how-to in chemistry (gen chem plus org chem would somewhat suffice) and you then can satisfy yourself and start having idea of creation of novel stuffs.

Like, you learn basic food cooking on how to prepare ingredient, how to fry, how to boil, how to bake, etc first, then your imagination of making new food menu can kick in with high possibility.

Not... cooking just need ingredient and heat, so lets mix random food ingredient and throw them to open flame! (And get a burnt charcoal as result)

Does carboxypyridinium chloride produce pyschotactive properties? what would happen if a 3 cyclohexane carboxaldhyde was added?

 

[Kenn Bish]

Is there a way to make is pyschotsymatic

 

[DotChem]

"The Light"...

 

[Bagseed]

DiBT... I wonder how active that would be... as shulgin said, "butyl is futile"... but maybe the more compact form of isobutyl would fit the receptor better than n-butyl...

 

[malmet]

Inspired by selegiline and tranylcypromine.

Conformationally restricted DiPT...

...and something a bit different.

 

[Solipsis]

I think DPT is called 'the light' already? Otherwise I have some editing to do of the DPT thread title in PD iirc..

DiPT already has such low potency and DALT is not suggesting either that there is much beyond them. Perhaps 5-HT1A is more tolerant to these effects but it seems to make more of a stimulating spiritual experience rather than psychedelic if you'd make the 5-MeO of this.

Isobutyl may be more 'compact' but it is also more bulky in a fat and inflexible way rather than slim way while n-alkyls can at least try to fold into a pocket. So I think the butyl idea applies to basically all of them and I think he has more homology rules of thumb...
Not sure what would be up with the di-tert-butyl though, that seems hard to make? It should be possible but quite hard since it's so crowdy...

The methyl propargyl is a nice idea... two doesn't work because of interaction between the pargies.

I am already horrified by the PTC drugs china made so please no tranylcypromine stuff, lol The latter two aziridines have been proposed before in this thread. Just saying because if you search well you could find some talk about it

@Kenn Bish:
- Again: nothing focused heavily on synthy stuff, use this thread correctly or not at all plz.
- Some of it like the 'psychosomatic' part doesn't even make sense. I guess you meant psychoactive.
- No reason why analogues of benzoic acid would be psychoactive, at best I think an idea could be the pyridine analogue of acetylsalicylic acid: aspirin.
- We draw pictures of random molecules, not see what we can make... anyway you would first have quite a long time of learning chemistry before touching any synthy stuff, we do help with chemistry understanding but not by helping with your irl 'projects'. The things you ask about: that's not how that works, and guessing isn't the way to go anyway. As was already said regarding the crocodil: stuff like that just makes toxic gunk and has nothing to do with properly making something.
This is a harm reduction forum, we're not here to support someone improvising on already questionable one-pot meth synths.
- While we're not gonna help with the synth, a tip is: first plan your synthesis from beginning to end and separate it in steps, with intermediates. Understand how every one of those steps work, what it's called and what it would require.
- I guess people will help if you ask more generally about the psychoactivity of certain analogues if you leave out the synthesis stuff like about the iodine and phosphorus.

 

[Kenn Bish]

I think DPT is called 'the light' already? Otherwise I have some editing to do of the DPT thread title in PD iirc..

DiPT already has such low potency and DALT is not suggesting either that there is much beyond them. Perhaps 5-HT1A is more tolerant to these effects but it seems to make more of a stimulating spiritual experience rather than psychedelic if you'd make the 5-MeO of this.

Isobutyl may be more 'compact' but it is also more bulky in a fat and inflexible way rather than slim way while n-alkyls can at least try to fold into a pocket. So I think the butyl idea applies to basically all of them and I think he has more homology rules of thumb...
Not sure what would be up with the di-tert-butyl though, that seems hard to make? It should be possible but quite hard since it's so crowdy...

The methyl propargyl is a nice idea... two doesn't work because of interaction between the pargies.

I am already horrified by the PTC drugs china made so please no tranylcypromine stuff, lol The latter two aziridines have been proposed before in this thread. Just saying because if you search well you could find some talk about it

@Kenn Bish:
- Again: nothing focused heavily on synthy stuff, use this thread correctly or not at all plz.
- Some of it like the 'psychosomatic' part doesn't even make sense. I guess you meant psychoactive.
- No reason why analogues of benzoic acid would be psychoactive, at best I think an idea could be the pyridine analogue of acetylsalicylic acid: aspirin.
- We draw pictures of random molecules, not see what we can make... anyway you would first have quite a long time of learning chemistry before touching any synthy stuff, we do help with chemistry understanding but not by helping with your irl 'projects'. The things you ask about: that's not how that works, and guessing isn't the way to go anyway. As was already said regarding the crocodil: stuff like that just makes toxic gunk and has nothing to do with properly making something.
This is a harm reduction forum, we're not here to support someone improvising on already questionable one-pot meth synths.
- While we're not gonna help with the synth, a tip is: first plan your synthesis from beginning to end and separate it in steps, with intermediates. Understand how every one of those steps work, what it's called and what it would require.
- I guess people will help if you ask more generally about the psychoactivity of certain analogues if you leave out the synthesis stuff like about the iodine and phosphorus.

I deleted the posts so I was hoping that would help so is it pyschoative in any way having a piperdine ring? Or a pyridine ring considering pcp has a piperdine ring and nicotine does have a pyridine ring? Or does it work completely different

 

[Solipsis]

That's also fine

Not sure if I recall a piperidine compound in your earlier posts but it doesn't really matter:

These rings are just building blocks of molecules - you call them groups or moieties - on their own they don't really imply psychoactivity or other activities (there may be exceptions, like the metabolism can depend on those building blocks but never mind those)... so no, it doesn't work like that ^.

The activity is mainly a product of the exact shape of the total molecule and the electronic properties of each of the moieties. To interact with for example receptors in the brain they sort of lock on as a key in a lock (binding).

Modifying one group (by adding it etc) can have consequences for how the entire molecule binds, whether it changes a lot or not depends on how well it matches the shape and properties of the receptor, plus some subtle things which determine whether the binding even has an activating effect on the receptor.

The methylenedioxy addition to a molecule like the fun on the first page of this thread is misleading: it's meant to partially be ironic / a joke. For particular drugs, adding a methylenedioxy is meaningful and appropriate - mainly empathogen or stimulant phenethylamines... adding it to random other drugs or molecules is just taking it way too far as ridicule, so don't take that seriously.
Some molecules posted here are jokes for some reason or another while others are more serious ideas / suggestions which could actually be psychoactive in interesting ways.

There are countless compounds which are not psychoactive that have piperidine or pyridine rings so call that insignificant / coincidental.

Changing say the phenyl ring of amphetamine / meth to a pyridine ring is not generally a bad idea though. There are what are called bioisosteres: you can replace some moieties / groups by particular others which resemble them so much that the biological activity is more or less similar. It depends on various factors whether that idea then actually works or not, but it's one valid approach to modifying drugs.

Another approach is borrowing ideas from one drug in a particular class and applying it to another in the same class in a smart way. To do this though you have to understand which significant structures are shared and that they actually bind in similar ways spatially.

 

[Kenn Bish]

That's also fine

Not sure if I recall a piperidine compound in your earlier posts but it doesn't really matter:

These rings are just building blocks of molecules - you call them groups or moieties - on their own they don't really imply psychoactivity or other activities (there may be exceptions, like the metabolism can depend on those building blocks but never mind those)... so no, it doesn't work like that ^.

The activity is mainly a product of the exact shape of the total molecule and the electronic properties of each of the moieties. To interact with for example receptors in the brain they sort of lock on as a key in a lock (binding).

Modifying one group (by adding it etc) can have consequences for how the entire molecule binds, whether it changes a lot or not depends on how well it matches the shape and properties of the receptor, plus some subtle things which determine whether the binding even has an activating effect on the receptor.

The methylenedioxy addition to a molecule like the fun on the first page of this thread is misleading: it's meant to partially be ironic / a joke. For particular drugs, adding a methylenedioxy is meaningful and appropriate - mainly empathogen or stimulant phenethylamines... adding it to random other drugs or molecules is just taking it way too far as ridicule, so don't take that seriously.
Some molecules posted here are jokes for some reason or another while others are more serious ideas / suggestions which could actually be psychoactive in interesting ways.

There are countless compounds which are not psychoactive that have piperidine or pyridine rings so call that insignificant / coincidental.

Changing say the phenyl ring of amphetamine / meth to a pyridine ring is not generally a bad idea though. There are what are called bioisosteres: you can replace some moieties / groups by particular others which resemble them so much that the biological activity is more or less similar. It depends on various factors whether that idea then actually works or not, but it's one valid approach to modifying drugs.

Another approach is borrowing ideas from one drug in a particular class and applying it to another in the same class in a smart way. To do this though you have to understand which significant structures are shared and that they actually bind in similar ways spatially.

Huh very facinating I'm assuming that there is no effect or drug high associated with carboxypyridinium chloride but is metabolized to aspirin? That's what I've collected is this a new Chem or been done before? Thanks for all your help!

 

[Nagelfar]

We clearly need 'instant meals' but you'd probably get F'ed by the DA marketing that..

My DA also markets me confirmation-bias psychotic-delusions, but usually only when I flood my nucleus accumbens with it. ;- P and don't get me started on district attorneys.

 

[sekio]

"carboxypyridiniumj chloride" is ill-defined, there are 4 possible isomers, all are likely to be unstable (lose HCl to the free pyridine) ... and 3-carboxypyridine is actually nicotinic acid. That's a B-vitamin, precursor to niacin. Not generally considered to be psychoactive.

 

[DotChem]

DiBT... I wonder how active that would be... as shulgin said, "butyl is futile"... but maybe the more compact form of isobutyl would fit the receptor better than n-butyl...

..the 4-OH-di-nButyl is pretty much dead as per Sasha unlike the di-(iso)Propyl .. but who knows how the di-isoButyl will behave? the SAR of psycheldelics is kind of tricky both PIHKAL and TIHKAL (doesn't make lots of sense! at least at first glance ): you go from more potent to less potent: Me>Et>Pr, iPr>Bu etc both with Tryptamine and PEAs.. but then back up to incredibly more potent than anything with even bulkier Methoxybenzyl>Bromobenzyl>Benzyl>...etc (mono-substituted!) like with the NBOMe series. With a secondary NH .. Not sure about the N,N-dibenzyl (Nichols might have try them for sure since that would seems the logical SAR ..monalkyl --> dialkyl -> substituted-benzyl -->di-benzyl..etc etc
Here is a lecture by Pr Nichols on youtube explaining the rather interesting SAR of 5HT2a agonits psychedlics (starting @ ~19:00 (a bit old 3 years ago.. but worth watching!!..

I think DPT is called 'the light' already? Otherwise I have some editing to do of the DPT thread title in PD iirc..

No don't edit.. DPT is nicknamed "The Light". I should've use different nickname.. The idea was to increase metabolic stability of DPT (therefore the experience of "The Light") by branching the propyl but obviously it may kill the 5HT2a activity altogether..

 

[Pomzazed]

"carboxypyridiniumj chloride" is ill-defined, there are 4 possible isomers,....

This quote refers to what I replied to his original message (which was removed) talking about mixing niacin and HCl and other thing else, so I replied that to him, as it does nothing but only forms a salt.

 

[JK25]

My grandmother drew a picture of a penis once on a storm drain.

 

[WSH]

(C60-Ih)[5,6]fullerene, a doping drug for soccer players