Detox About to do a Kratom Detox

[Jabberwocky]

Yup, thanks 10Years I was just curious to see more about your history taking it. I imagine you've been playing around with it for quite some time now to have come to understand how it affects you this well. That also would make sense considering you have to taper when you stop taking it after a week or more of continued use.

I only every took a few times a month (maybe like two-three days at a time), at higher doses like you. I imagine with the somewhat more frequent use you've been managing that a taper is much more necessary. Sounds like you've works out an effective system for yourself!

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

EDIT: lol "quick note"

Hello everyone - just a quick note to say, sorry I haven't logged in or updated in a while. I really appreciate the messages/replies (I even got slightly teary eyed) and I will be clawing my way out of a procrastination/depressive session shortly to embark upon a long taper and detox plan as mentioned. I decided it was a "good idea" to have a couple of binges on the hard stuff before my detox. In some ways it's been helpful to remind myself what the abyss feels like, in others it's been kind of destructive and dangerous behaviour. I won't elaborate just yet, there's lots of fairly naughty things I've been doing and I think it's best I don't necessarily go into a big sidetrack about all that in this thread. I'm kind of figuring out this process as I go so bear with me.

I have an extensive plan I have been working on for a while, but it's mostly in my head. BTW @Vast I really like this "comfort meds" definition, it made me laugh. It's almost ridiculous the amount of different substances, vitamins and crutches I have aquired to help me take a soft landing from the Kratom. Perhaps members here will have some advice as to what is and isn't a good idea. (e.g. I have 3 days of opium, and 3-5 days of subutex as potential bait and switch substances. I will explain my logic later, but it's layman's logic as I am no chemist/doctor). I will start to write it all out shortly, I think in the next 24 hours is a good bet as I want to start making some sort of progress on Monday.

I did however consider recently that perhaps I might as well just go to the local drug centre. They already offered me a detox plan months ago, but when they started writing that I had been on K2/Spice in my notes, I ran a mile. I hate it when medical professionals don't listen or make assumptions. The other thing that I didn't like about the local centre was they would likely put me on subutex/methadone for longer than I feel comfortable. I have this (perhaps misguided) idea that any more than 3 days on anything is just creating a new addiction.

Another note for readers - I am very strongly of the opinion that withdrawals are relative. It makes no difference to me that the Kratom detox is not as hardcore as H or Oxy. One mans easy withdrawal, is another mans living hell. Especially when you don't have a reference point on what the other "worse" one feels like. Kratom has been my crutch during a period of chronically poor mental health, including some suicidal thoughts, so it is indeed a scary prospect and I intend to proceed with extreme caution. Not to mention my other naughty and "addict"-like behaviour lately, I am pretty much tapering from hard stimulants and opiates already and trying to get back to my baseline Kratom equilibrium before I can fathom the next steps.



@TPD (or anyone with an opinion actually ) - in terms of formatting I was maybe thinking that I will post daily updates in the thread just in line with the usual reply function, but at the same time edit those posts into the OP. That way the entire diary is at the top of the thread, but also those who may wish to view updates and respond chronologically can also do that in line with the progress of the thread. What do you think? Also is there a "spoiler" formatting function or some other method to shrink the text so the OP doesn't become too clogged? I was thinking that I will aim for a 3-4 week taper and then a jump off "comfort meds" week, with a couple of weeks after in which I have some crisis meds should things get too much (I'm thinking cannabis for mood, and benzos for anxiety).

Anyways, as I mentioned I will write it all up shortly so there is something of substance (pun not intended) to work with and talk about. Thank you so much to everyone or anyone, I would like to say sorry in advance if I end up writing too much or rambling at times, I find it very hard to get to the keyboard, but when I do it all comes out at once. I would also ask that you go easy on me should I come up with any naive talk. I know we are hidden behind keyboards, but I'm a sensitive guy

 

[Jabberwocky]

No worries DTLC, I too am a delicate flower

Generally etiquette requires you update your recovery journey diary thingy simply by replying normally in a post. Plus, eventually you'll run out of room in the first post if you keep editing it. Each post only allows for so many characters.

You can make you entries stand out using BB Code: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/misc.php?do=bbcode#url

 

[VastEmpty]

DrinkTea -

personally, when I'm reading a recovery journal, I get as much out of the replies as I get out of the OP's posts. I like to read in order and see what advice was/is helpful for the OP and what doesn't work. But that's just me, everyone is different.

I couldnt agree more that wds are relative. What one person may scoff at as being "nothing" can absolutely be a "living hell" for the person going through it. I certainly don't think that Kratom wds is going to be easy - I've heard the physical stuff passes relatively quickly while the mental stuff tends to stick around with Kratom wds. The mental stuff is harder than the physical for most, so I often hear people say that Kratom wds are worse than oxy or the big H.

If any one steps on (or otherwise harms) either of you delicate flowers - you just let me know. I'll have a very nice chat with whoever that may be about the upside to being very gentle. In any case, I highly doubt that will happen. SL is friendly the vast majority of the time.

Im sending you all my good vibes tonight, I hope you rest well and prepare for the battle ahead.

- VE

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah, I really wouldn't worry about the format of your diary. You can always go back and change it later (and it need be I am happy to lend my mod powers to help, though I doubt it would be necessary).

The important thing is that you start laying out your ideas and plans and start getting feedback, so that when it comes time to implement then you have our collective wealth of knowledge and insight behind you in this, so you won't just be doing it all alone.

Doesn't matter how. We all love reading. And trust me, from what I have seen, your posts are infinitely easier to read than some of the more difficult ones out there. You got nothing to worry about my friend

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY ZERO - Support Substances and Vitamins list (in progress)

Haha, thanks guys. I will start DAY ZERO posting now. I will write out my support substances in a list first, and try to add some logic to them later. Then I will write out my general taper/jump off plan, and where the substances might fit into that. Then I will write out today's experiences and substance use as well as a little background info on what my week has been like leading upto today. I will potentially edit some of these into my first post, in case that's useful for first time readers.

First, here is my menu of support substances. I want to say now that my "jump off" period will probably be in about 4 weeks from now, so there is some time for me to aquire or edit the list should experienced members or myself believe it needs work or new additions. I will have a short window in the next couple of weeks to aquire some more specifically illegal substances. That said, I recently embarked upon the previously mentioned binging, and at the same time I did some "hoarding" of substances that may or may not be useful, but I will list them nonetheless. It's important to note that with some substances, there may be a risk of slipping into polydrug abuse or replacing one thing with another. But I do not intend this diary to be a record of failure and I like to think I have some control when I put my mind to it (don't we all ). I just want to put this word of warning that my list of substances and methods might be a treading a fine line along the way and I can't recommend anyone to follow this recipe.

Primary comfort/transition drugs

80g (roughly) Stem and Vein Kratom
1g opium, average strength
12mg subutex, 8mg tablets (to be crushed/weighed for taper)
144mg loperamide (2mg capsules x 72)

Secondary drugs, with therapeutic potential:

7 x 50mg tramadol capsules
6 x 2mg clonazepam tablets
14 x 5mg diazepam tablets
large amounts of Kava instant powder, and concentrate drink
0.3 g of extremely strong kief hash
2g of strong lemony skunk
14% CBD "entourage" oil. Not hemp oil
1g of ketamine isomer

Other drugs, with arguable therapeutic potential (or some potential to confound the detox):

edit - all now in hiding/storage
58 x 5mg dexamphetamine tablets
1g mdma, very pure
some mgs of methamphetamine and V strong coke

Vitamins and minerals, in possible order of usefulness:

Magnesium - large supply 200mgs tablets, bioavailable variety
58 x Sam-e enteric tablets
85% MorEPA fish oils, high strength/purity
Melatonin (TBC type/source)
L Tyrosine capsules
L Tryptophan capsules
Superfood Complex - very high B vitamin complex, plant proteins - good stuff
2 types of Turmeric/Curcumin extract with bioperine
Vitamin D oral spray
Guarana powder
Ester-C (Vitamin C)
Taurine powder bulk
Inositol powder bulk
Gingko Biloba tablets
DMAE
N-Acetyl-Cysteine Powder/Salts bulk (the foulest smelling/tasting thing ever, must be manually put into capsules if it is to go anywhere near my mouth, supposedly good for anxiety but never managed to trial it properly)
some other health foods...

edit: Phenibut tablets, and 33% theobroma cacao extract powder. I don't like phenibut so I doubt it will make an appearance, but good chocolate/cacao is awesome for mood and focus


EDIT: I forgot to mention the 2 essentials.... Tea, and Cats. I have specifically lately been moderating my tea intake so I can increase it during the down trend. I love a good cup of tea (I'm British if that's not obvious). Also, I have found (and science says) that looking at cat videos and pictures does indeed brighten up some of the darker days

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY ZERO - timetable for detox

OK, so I intend to do 4 weeks of tapering, and then jump off on the 5th week with the "comfort" drugs to aid for 6 - 8 days max. After that I will have the other substances to aid through the landing. I intend to start tmrw, (Monday 30th January, 2017). A rough outline here:


Week 1

This first week is all about finding a stable Kratom dose and sticking to it. No binging, no unmeasured using, as few additional substances as possible, preferably none. Due to the fact I have recently been binging on harder stimulants and opiates, I need to come off those and get back to baseline. I have also been using amphetamines nearly every day last week, so I expect a couple more days of pain once they are gone.

I expect roughly my daily dose to be in the region of 20 - 30g. I will be aiming for max 20g. It's been a little while since I measured exactly how much I was using.

At one point I was stable on 7.5g in 2 doses daily of 1 and 2 teaspons, but that was a few months ago now so I won't get back to that instantly.


Weeks 2 - 4

Each Monday I intend to drop my dose from between 25 - 30%, possibly 50% - so if I manage to find my baseline in week 1 at 20g, then hopefully I can hit 12-15g in week 2, I could get to 7.5 - 10g by week 3, and maybe even as low as 5g in week 4. 5g still doesn't quite seem low enough, so if I need an extra week of taper, I may include it, time will tell. Each step down, I will have the secondary support drugs, and the loperamide in particular, to aid with WD symptoms. I'll save the rationale for all of those for the next post perhaps, or edit it into this one shortly.


Week 5 - 6 "Jump Off"

At this stage I forsee something like this:

• Switch to the Stem and Vein Kratom, and get the doses as low as possible. Attempt the "minimum every few hours to hold of WDs" strategy. Something like, 1g and wait, 1g and wait.
• 2-3 days opium (I had originally hoped for 3, but this opium is weaker than anticipated), with originally with a fast taper, something like 450mg, 300mg, 250mg over 3 days to ensure dependancy does not increase or set in over those days.
• subutex fast taper for roughly 5 days give or take, something like. (Doing basic maths right now), but let's say 3mg, 2mg, 2mg, 1.5mg, 1.5mg, 1mg, 0.5mg, 0.5.... At this time I have experimented and 4mg just about held me last week. My tolerance swings wildly though.

Week 6 & 7 and beyond:

At this stage, it gets a bit more tricky. I have the Dex to combat the lethargy and depression. BUT I absolutely do not want to switch to those daily. My rule and reasoning for buying them was to use them twice weekly maximum for high productivity days, in order to get some momentum back in my life and get a productive routine going without swimming around in post WD depression.

I have all the other options such as the benzos to combat anxiety/panic attacks, cannabis to support mood/sleep/rls, kava for the same as both. Ketamine has been shown to improve chronic depression, and I have used it to get some perspective when things start going very dark in my mind for sure. I don't really like it, but there is something about a K-hole that allows you to see new angles on your existence that you wouldn't normally be able to access. Much the same as psychaedelics. I don't intend to touch the MDMA for months, but had heard of the success of some trials, and so it was added to the list of hoarded items.

The tiny amounts of coke and meth are leftovers from my binges last week. I include them in the list as they may pop up in the diary in tiny mgs "bump" doses from time to time. Tomorrow I intend to leave them alone as I have been tapering off them all this week after last weekend's binge.

EDIT: I did also forget to mention the tramadol. That's basically there as a crisis fallback med. My hazy memory of tramadol is that it was stimulating and euphoric, much like Kratom. But I did a little test with 150mg + a few other small doses of opiates/kratom and I just fell asleep. I'm thinking it will just be good for 2 or 3 doses on the roughest days after the jump off. Hopefully I won't just swallow them immediately after the subutex runs out


I also wanted to include a full post about my rationale and reasons for all of the substances and vitamins. But at this stage I think I'll save that for further discussions, as I hope others may discuss the pros and cons of such options. I tend to grab at whatever I think might help and just throw it on the list to keep hoarding. I have been trying for a long time to fight anxiety and depression, so I've googled my way to just about everything you can think of, and perhaps may not understand the chemistry or interactions of all of these. I do however feel I have an intuitive handle and experience on many of these things.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

(reserved for later)

Here I'll potentially include a list of holistic healthy routine stuff to keep me on track and keep me positive - e.g. meditation, exercise, therapy. I have done some behavioural therapy and something called Meta Cognitive Therapy. I know it's not a mental health forum but perhaps it's useful to mention.

perhaps also discuss the different substances and vitamins and my logic for including them in the plan.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY ZERO - Detox Diary 0

DAY ZERO

EDIT: the opium dose today is not included in the above list, as it was already consumed at time of writing

So today I started writing everything up, and it feels good to be making progress.

In terms of substances, today I tried to completely exclude Kratom. Last night I ended up lying in bed nauseous having taken one too many teaspoonfuls and having done one too many bumps of meth. It was a strange place to be nodding off but with a racing heart, a good reminder of where I don't want to be.

I woke up around 11am feeling pretty good to be honest, clearly still "full up" of kratom and with some mild stimulatory effects from the meth. I waited until I felt some WDs around roughly 2pm and consumed a load of acidic liquids that are part of my health foods (apple cider vinegar, aloe vera, lemon juice, and orange juice. I had eaten 200mg magnesium at breakfast with some turmeric/bioperine. I then ate a couple "tums" equivalent and went for 400mg opium (as I wanted a day off kratom so I can start tmrw to find my stable daily dose). I also consumed a teaspoon of guarana, as it's high in caffeine and I've seen some info that suggest caffeine potentiates morphine.

Unfortunately I have been doing amphetamines quite a lot this last week, so I found myself requiring a tiny bump of meth just to get myself to go out for a walk in the park and try to get metabolising the opium. In the end I had to supplement the 400mg with another 200mg plus 2.5g of stem and vein, and later another 150mg plus about another 1g of stem and vein just to avoid depression/WDs. I also did a mini bump of strong coke, to give me the kick up the ass to start writing. Lastly I took some "Alpha Brain" supplement/vitamin type nootropics.

Overall I found the total 750mg opium, and 3.5g stem and vein, and the tiny bump of meth and later coke, all just enough to get me through the day without serious depression and with some productivity and positivity. Due to the binging I was doing last weekend + 2 days, I had lost some days last week to severe depression and hopelessness with zero productivity, so at least it felt good to keep moving and feel some degree of "normal". I appreciate using opium, coke and meth at the start of a Kratom detox diary is a bit counter intuitive. All I can say is that's where am at, and it's what happened. In some ways it felt good not to be taking bunches of heaped teaspoonfuls of kratom throughout the day. I was disappointed my tolerance seems to be higher than expected with the opium and I didn't really get too warm and fuzzy, I had hoped to have saved an extra 200-400mg for the end of the detox. I think this batch may be weaker than what I have used in aforementioned binges.

I'm glad to have started writing this. Tomorrow I will be attempting strongly to stick to only kratom to find that equilibrium dose from which to work through the taper. I will take some Sam-e and possibly more guarana in place of the hard stimulants and hope that avoids the dominant craving feeling I may get for amphetamines etc. I feel I have done a good job at tapering said stimulants the last week, although it is somewhat a failure to have used them almost every day, even if it was only very small doses. One logic might be just to finish those last bits of powder in a another session, but I'm really not interested in binging anymore as I want to start to feel healthy again and stable. Perhaps they will be little comfort meds on the days I drop off during the taper. Time will tell.

edit: I did a 2.5mg sublingual valium for bedtime, but I intend to spend the taper period without benzos as I don't want to ruin their efficacy for after the "jump off" so I expect to do a very quick taper over the next 3 days or perhaps stop after tonight (my tolerance is not massive for them right now, but enough to be cautious not to just stop immediately). Also some kava to get to sleep.

Best wishes

 

[Jabberwocky]

Dude, you are my favorite new BLer! That is quite the impressive arsenal, a man very much after my own heart

Okay, it all looks killer actually. I mean, be careful with the stims during withdrawal. On the one hand, they can help you stay productive in a pinch (just as long as you are very reserved and don't go overboard with your dosing), but recovery from stims during opioid withdrawal FUCKING SUCKS. I don't know what is worse when combined with kicking something like kratom or an opioid, hung over as shit or in the bottomless pit of stim binge comedown... There is no reason you need to find out! Tread lightly!!!

The only other thing I want to point out is that I suggest you use the opium prior to the kratom stems/veins. It will help you avoid any issues with precipitated withdrawal when you titrate onto the buprenorphine/subutex. From what you've already found with your tolerance to it though, I don't think it would be an issue either way. Just something to think about.

You've got a great plan and a really good head on your shoulders DTLC, you got this!

And yes, you're almost (almost) stereotypically British (but in only the best possible ways of course)

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

Dude, you are my favorite new BLer! That is quite the impressive arsenal, a man very much after my own heart

Okay, it all looks killer actually. I mean, be careful with the stims during withdrawal. On the one hand, they can help you stay productive in a pinch (just as long as you are very reserved and don't go overboard with your dosing), but recovery from stims during opioid withdrawal FUCKING SUCKS. I don't know what is worse when combined with kicking something like kratom or an opioid, hung over as shit or in the bottomless pit of stim binge comedown... There is no reason you need to find out! Tread lightly!!!

The only other thing I want to point out is that I suggest you use the opium prior to the kratom stems/veins. It will help you avoid any issues with precipitated withdrawal when you titrate onto the buprenorphine/subutex. From what you've already found with your tolerance to it though, I don't think it would be an issue either way. Just something to think about.

You've got a great plan and a really good head on your shoulders DTLC, you got this!

And yes, you're almost (almost) stereotypically British (but in only the best possible ways of course)

Thanks man, that means a lot haha. I'm keen to fit everything in, hopefully the extensiveness is not too much for readers to swallow/follow Yes I'm feeling very cautious about the stims. I expect I will experience that last bit of withdrawal the next few days now, to get it over with and out the way. The 58 (originally 60) dex pills were not cheap, so I don't want to go fucking around with them needlessly when I'm already emotionally sensitive. I haven't got the money for one thing...!

As you can see I've written my Day Zero just now while you were replying here

Tmrw is Day One, I'm kind of scared, kind of excited.

I also was wondering. Is there anything I can add to my arsenal for the Monday taper dips? I was thinking perhaps some DXM? So I can be sure to really get the 30% or even 50% cut down... I'm not sure yet if loperamide is going to be enough, but it has certainly helped in the past when I needed to stabilise/lower dosages...

thanks again

 

[Jabberwocky]

That should be enough loperamide. If you have used DXM before and tolerate it well I find it works well enough in withdrawal, just DO NOT combine stimulants with DXM. Really the DXM and some cannabis and a benzo will be all you really need if you do find you can tolerate the DXM. Then again, if you have any responsibilities work wise while you're kicking, DXM is not the best idea (because it will essentially turn you into a zombie, as far as everyone else is concerned - though you will probably feel awesome - and keep you from functioning, socializing and speaking normally).

I'd really just save the stims for once you're through the detox and can really enjoy them to their fullest. Anyone else want to chime in on stim use? I'm not a big fan myself, I only take them when they serve a purpose (like biking across the city, methamp is great for that 8)). But I can't handle cocaine. MDMA, well, MDMA I love, but I consider that more an empathogen than a purist stim.

One problem I might foresee with your treasure trove of comfort meds is that you have access to so much. Do you have anyone living with you or a friend around who can help you encourage yourself to stay accountable (not to nag you, just to check in and see how you're doing kind of thing, someone you would actually listen to if they pointed out you were running through your stash too quick)?

Generally, when I have tons of drugs laying around, I tend to do them all. But then again, while kicking, this isn't a bad thing necessarily, only when it comes to those substance that might cause more damage than help - like stims and booze.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

yeah, I might do a random test with DXM on week 2 and decide from there. Perhaps just out of curiosity more than anything. But true, there is probably enough here

the MDMA wasn't really for the detox anyway. Just because there happened to be some at the same time as another purchase. Apparently there are some therapeutic tricks I can try with it later, but once I'm sober for sure...

RE the stem and vein/opium. I did a test run with a dose of opium and then a dose of subutex 24 hours later, and it was all good RE precipitated withdrawals. I feel kind of strongly to keep it in this order I think as once I "jump off" I'd like to be sure to be moving away from eating teaspoonfuls of leaves everyday ASAP, but I appreciate the suggestion. I'm kind of flagging now as it's bed time in the UK pretty much, but I did wonder whether my laymans logic of switching to opium even makes sense at all. I will hope to discuss it later and hopefully those who get the chemistry more can critique that idea. Primarily I'm thinking if one were to spend longer than 3 days on a full opiate it would just be insane to be tapering from that instead of just straight from kratom alone as you might as well be withdrawing from a full opiate addiction anyway.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Whatever you can do to get you away from the specific substance you're dependent on the better AFAIC. A couple days of the opium followed by the subtext followed by the loperamide and tramadol should get you out of the woods very comfortably.

I look forward to hearing what others have to say about this all too though. Sleep well!

 

[Stargazer]

TPD- I want to send you a PM but cannot figure out how to send you one using my phone. I loved and appreciated your PM to me.

Drink- Its so great to read your update. You're ok. Really. Its a process. Believe me- we all not only understand but have experienced the same stuff.

You made me smile by using the word "naughty". I take it you're from the UK. In the US naughty means something different. Glad you posted.

 

[Stargazer]

And Wow are you prepared!!! Dude I have been in severe heroin, morphine w/d and had nothing or some loperamide. Lope only stops me from vomiting- I feel every other w/d symptoms. It takes 3 days on it until Im feeling stable and able to eat a little You are prepared my friend. I mean seriously prepared. You don't have that mortal fear of w/d we all have? Lol. Im joking w you. Impressive arsenal. Please check in and keep us updated. Im rooting for you!!

 

[Sixxam]

I have to agree with 10yearsgone, you're ready to to smack the shit outta this monkey... Throw him to the ground and pills the fuckers eyes out. Rock out lil mommy!

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

DAY ONE - Detox Diary 1

haha, it seems each time I log in to write a post I start smiling and have to write a little laugh in to let you know How strange considering the challenges! thanks guys. Today has seemed positive so far...


OK so here's my DAY ONE update, I will potentially include morning and evening updates in my posts. If it gets to the point where I'm writing the same shit each day, I'll start to cut the detail down a bit. For now I'm glad to be writing as much as I can on here as it all feels like progress:


Morning around 7am I awoke from a horrible nightmare about a benzo withdrawal. My mum had benzos and she wouldn't give me any because she had done some "spiritual singing therapy" for her benzo WDS and "that works just fine on it's own". She didn't understand that I had been on magnitudes larger doses and that my life was in danger. There were all these familiar faces in the nightmare, it was pretty messed up. An hour later I got a wake up call from my therapist (I've negotiated with her to keep an eye on me each morning this week to get me moving). After that things got really positive as I was actually awake in the daylight etc. I had been sleeping til 2pm as it's winter here so shit was pretty dark on every level last week.

Leftover positive haze from yesterdays opium/morphine etc lasted a while, but decided to go for a 2.5g kratom dose after breakfast and go for a walk. Everything is all good for a couple of hours. I then took a Sam-e pill to fight the stims WDS, and seems to be working fine. Now I'm at 1.30pm, and I ate a 0.1g skunk earlier plus some coconut oil (I don't like smoking these days) and drank a big coffee. These have just about kept me sane and moving the last hour or so. I received my loperamide capsules in the post today, and have decided considering my positive start to really go for it today and aim for 12.5g baseline. At this point though I'm getting bad diarrhoea, anxiety and mood is only sustained by the cannabis I think. I also forgot I had some 33% theobroma cacao extract for extra mood enhancement and some phenibut pills! who'd have thought there's more to add to the arsenal! Ate a teaspoon of the cacao extract, again that's just about keeping my mood level with the other stuff.

Now I intend to last until after lunch before a 5g dose and then re-evaluate, will report/edit at the end of the day.

EDIT - 5.30pm. OK so I want to update now as it seems the optimism was a bit much considering the cross drug abuse of the last week. At 7.5g at 4pm I was very much in an anxious and tired state. I had hoped to hold off until about 7pm + and do another 5g, some lope at bedtime and call it a very successful day at 12.5g. Instead I have made a deal with myself. I took 2.5g of extract (natural variety, not adulterated, perhaps 2-3x stronger than average), and finished off the last 20mg of meth just to get it out of my room. The cross interactions of kratom and the stimulants and the use of other opiates clearly have pushed up my receptors more than anticipated. I will stick to 5g a bit later, and with the meth boost I will do some exercise. I have also placed the dex tablets and the tiny 50mg coke remains into the attic/deep storage to tidy my room of easy temptations for the next days. I found some CBD oil and a teaspoon of kava just right to calm the anxiety while I tried to figure out the next steps.

EVENING EDIT - 11pm. So total for today was 17.5g and that will be my baseline for this week. I took 12mg of loperamide in the evening around 7pm and then 2 teaspoons, which was 15g total for the day, but then felt pretty much nothing and went for a 0.15g skunk oral dose and another 2.5g teaspoon of a more mellow/weaker strain of kratom.

I feel slightly euphoric now at 11pm, and I think I didn't need the extra 2.5g it was just taking a long time for the last 5g to process considering the lope was in there. I've noticed when using lope to potentiate kratom it can sometimes delay the onset of effects by upto a few hours. I feel a little bit like there were some failures today with the meth and going above 15g kratom. But glad I didn't go above 20g and have had a productive day overall. Managed to get some exercise in too and good meals. I'm even more acutely aware now of the dangers of the stims, so tmrw the plan is to stick to 17.5g and use no stims and minimal support drugs where possible. I will use larger doses of Sam-e and guarana to offset the lack of stimulants, and hopefully considering the last low doses of stims any WDs from those will be minimal and I can focus on this being a pure Kratom detox from now on.

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

And Wow are you prepared!!! Dude I have been in severe heroin, morphine w/d and had nothing or some loperamide. Lope only stops me from vomiting- I feel every other w/d symptoms. It takes 3 days on it until Im feeling stable and able to eat a little You are prepared my friend. I mean seriously prepared. You don't have that mortal fear of w/d we all have? Lol. Im joking w you. Impressive arsenal. Please check in and keep us updated. Im rooting for you!!

ohhh, I wrote a reply but it got lost somehow. Basically yeah I have the "mortal fear" for sure :D - just never actually experienced true WDS from cold turkey. Have had some dark depression and sickness experiences while taking kratom and binging on stronger opiates for a few days. Just that little taste of true opiate WDS is enough for me!

I must be on the autistic spectrum or something, everything must be in it's correct place and all bases must be covered. Also have done my fair share of teary comedowns over the years to conclude it's all about careful management. I couldn't imagine ever doing cold turkey, that terrifies me! Perhaps partly to do with a benzo WD I had unexpectedly years ago...

cheers

 

[Drink_Tea_Love_Cat]

One problem I might foresee with your treasure trove of comfort meds is that you have access to so much. Do you have anyone living with you or a friend around who can help you encourage yourself to stay accountable (not to nag you, just to check in and see how you're doing kind of thing, someone you would actually listen to if they pointed out you were running through your stash too quick)?

I didn't reply to this earlier as I missed it or perhaps you edited it in later. I agree on this point. It's a tricky one as this level of substance ownership is not normal for me. Back when I was using drugs much more regularly to party, I would often have a variety but they would get shared or they would be saved for the weekend only. At this time there is no specific person I can tell about the entire "treasure trove", but I do live with parents who are always a moderating force. I simply can't go crazy with using at home unless I want to have a family crisis. Lately the reason I aquired so much was I did have a period of "freedom" or alone-ness at home, so I could build up this stash in preparation for the detox. You could say I got a bit carried away

But, FYI I have at least 3 points of contact for my mental health, one of which I see every week and she has worked in various detox centres etc. I can't help but be about 80% honest with her about all this. I don't tell her measurements, but she knows what's going on. After the binges last week I can assure you I'm being looked after as I did start asking for more help. Also like I said, I might end up going to the local drug centre (they have free stuff here in the UK) should I start to feel myself failing in the home-brew plan.

Thanks though, it's important to quietly confront and bring objectivity in all these matters. Sometimes you think you know what's best for yourself and you end up in the shit and wonder how you got there.. On the whole, throughout my drug using life, I've tended to ritualise it more than go crazy fiending and seeking destruction. Also, as a reference point, I did have a gram of ketamine in my room for over a year this last year. It just wasn't something I wanted, but I did have the kratom I guess.