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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

EADD Heroin Discussion v. XXII -- Brucey Bonus Beetles all round!

I actually came round in my car with Greater Manchester Police prodding me. Asking me queations like, whats my name, is this your car etc... I didnt like that much... Had no idea who or what the fuck they was.

They realized I was a harmless tit after (x)hours and let me go..

No i wasnt driving either.
 
'Bupe rapid taper' is the ticket - IME - if your habit isnt too huge - and if you're using it to get off a full agonist (ie it doesnt work for bupe).
Done properly, you can negate ~90%+ of WD symptoms.

I'm repeating myself here - because i advocate bupe rapid tapers so much; but honestly, i've done full shifts at work on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd day after jumping off - and felt absolutely fine. Miraculous stuff - didnt even need clonidine (though it is always helpful).
For me, an opie detox consisting of a few strips of bupe, a bit of clonidine and maybe something to help me sleep (i find weed is good for still feeling 'high', and reduces cravings) is all i need.

Obviously, as already stated, this isnt very helpful for people already on subs - or with massive gorilla sized monkeys on their backs (i know gorillas arent monkeys, but you know what i'm getting at) - but if you do it right, a rapid taper with bupe/subs is the closest thing to a "cure" imaginable.
I wouldn't believe it were true if i hadnt done it myself.


Say what you will about "Big Pharma" - buprenorphine is incredible for detoxing; to me it has been a real wonder drug.
It is a shame that the medical fraternity (and the "recovery industry") don't seem to prescribe bupe that way.
Not as profitable as sticking people on maintenance doses for years, giving them an even harder addiction to kick.
I guess i'm very cynical - it obviously doesnt work for everyone. Like any detox, you have to be determined.

But damn, when it works - it really works. Saved my fucking life, seriously.
I'd advise anyone trying to kick to give it a go if you can obtain subs in any way.
Last time i did it, i kicked a medium-sized habit with 3 x 8mg suboxone strips. Took as little as it took to hold WD at bay, then reduced the dose as quickly as i could. Managed to stretch those 3 subs over a week and a bit, and when i ran out i had no symptoms to speak of, really.
Slight chills from time to time (nothing like a proper rattle - not even close) and a bit of insomnia, which is normal for me at the best of times. Unbelievably affective.
 
The dose is quite comlicated and you get a little card with it written on...

IIRC 1 - 4.5mg/kg as an initial bolous and 50% of the initial dose as maintenance.

This changes if it's given as a slow infusion rather than a bolous...

So for someone of my size (roughly 110kg) about half a gram IV at the top end of the dose spectrum topped up with another 250mg PRN.

That sounds a lot....is it?

Sprout - "emergence phenomina" as it's ephemistically called. :)

And I don't prod....I've got great bedside manner and hardly ever scare people :)
 
To think I was *this close* to opting for maintenance/ORT 18 months ago is obscene, kicking cold and in solitude was absolute Hell at the time but incomprehensibly preferable.
 
Not once have I done maintenance. I never felt it offered me stability. I had the money to buy heroin, so I either got my opiate/oid from a chemist or a guy in flash car I helped buy.

Guy in car won everytime. All or nothing for me. What suits me will no doubt not work with others. Its a shitty path, with shitty forks. Choose one. And a big screen TV...;)
 
It's a bit like administering morphine... I've seen people absutely out of it on as little as 5mg IV where as obviously that wouldn't even touch someone with a tollerance.

Your not allowed to go over 20mg for anyone though so for someone with a serious habbit then they are fucked really. There's always entanox (50-50 oxygen and nitrus oxide) but I've always thought entanox is pretty ineffective....works for some people though.

The good thing about ketamine is it doesnt suppress respiration like propofol and sodium thiapental do therefore no need to ventilate the person which although possible isnt really practical in the back of an ambulance.

Edit....just to add I also think ORT is a mistake mainly due to the choice being meth or subs which are both a cunt to get off. Just stopping CT is harder but the best option in the end. Not for everyone though I admit
 
I better put a card around me neck "1gram Ket or propofol, please. Junkie in transit=)"

Maintenance is required for some, lonely and isolated extreme users without the slightest structure in their lives benefit from the routine and interaction with folk they wouldnt usually get.

One size doesnt fit all, sadly the services dont have the funding to be as flexible for what is, a complex issue..
 
I agree. For some maintenance is a life saver. Certainly better than a destructive street habbit. For most though it doesn't seem to work if they actually want to be drug free. They seem to end up stuck on the liquid handcuffs for years on end.

As you say though one size doesn't fit all. Offering MST or something similar would be better than the current option but that's not available for most people.
 
Incidentally I just found out recently (although I should have already known) that oxygen is a prescription only drug in the UK.....what next? Water?

Note....actually oxygen can be dangerous if you dont know what you are doing in cases of COPD, hypoxic drive or paroquat poisioning so I suppose that's why ....
 
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Yeah, ORT certainly saves lives - but i'm so grateful that when the shit hit the fan with my 10 year opiate addiction and i sought treatment, that i was given counselling and support, scripted a few comfort meds (clonidine, ondansatron (sp?), a couple of diaz and some ibuprofen.
Never did i consider maintenance - but i was one of the lucky ones with a support network; a loving partner and compassionate friends, determination and desire to clean up my act.
I know people who are perfectly happy to pick up their suboxone a couple of times a week, and to stay on it.
But i'm glad i tackled my addiction and spent so much time with a counsellor using CBT to try to deal with the causes for the habit forming in the first place.
Having a habit was holding me back, and it was depressing me more than it was helping (to get high every day).
So glad to be out of all of that.
I'm a much healthier person these days, and not constantly thinking about how i'm going to keep from getting sick. The problem with opiates is that you can never, ever have enough.
And if you did find that you had "enough", you'd end up with such a tolerance that it would be impossible to be satisfied.
Just that ol' game of ever diminishing returns.
 
spacejunk said:
The problem with opiates is that you can never, ever have enough.
And if you did find that you had "enough", you'd end up with such a tolerance that it would be impossible to be satisfied.
Just that ol' game of ever diminishing returns.
Click to expand...

I submit 10,000ug Fentanyl via vapour or steel spike per day as Exhibit A...
Though I am quite happy that my returns returned before earning me a casket, I got lucky.
 
englandgz74 said:
Incidentally I just round out recently (although I should have already known) that oxygen is a prescription only drug in the UK.....what next? Water?

Note....actually oxygen can be dangerous if you dont know what you are doing in cases of COPD, hypoxic drive or paroquat poisioning so I suppose that's why ....
Click to expand...
Sounds crazy, but pure oxygen is toxic. Air =/= Oxygen :)
 
spacejunk said:
Sounds crazy, but pure oxygen is toxic. Air =/= Oxygen :)
Click to expand...

Yeah I know. You can very easily kill someone with exacibated COPD by giving them pure O2 on too high a flow rate due to hypoxic drive. Basically their brain detects the excess oxygen and slows automic breathing down even more so when the mask is taken off they stop breathing alltogether.

It just sounds wierd to many since oxygen is vital for life and all around us.
 
Yeah, exactly. And my apologies if that read as though i was telling you something you didn't already know.
Looking back it comes across as a little patronising, so i hope you didnt take it that way.

Funny how even life's greatest necessities are lethal in excess.

29g1ykz.jpg


(Figured this thread needed some Burroughs to get it back on track)

Speaking of "tracks", do UK smack users get bad vein damage and scar tissue from shooting that afghan brown base - and the citric (of other) acid used to get it into solution?
I imagine it must be pretty rough on people's injection sites, especially if they have poor technique, dirty/impure product and/or use too much citric acid than is needed?

The shit over here dissolves in cold water. No heating or acid required. Hardly even needs much of a stir, its that soluble.
I guess the upside for you guys is the (more effective) smokability of your gear.
 
Yes, but the body doesn't sense how much oxygen it's getting directly. It can only measure how much carbon dioxide is in the bloodstream, and works it out from there by applying a formula which is hardcoded into individuals and inherited (so there is natural selection pressure to have the right ratio). Excess CO2 is what triggers the breathing reflex and if you don't get a sufficient build-up of it in your bloodstream, then you don't breathe. So it only works over quite a narrow range of oxygen concentrations.
 
Different in COPD patients Julie...

Quote from wiki.


where there are chronically high carbon dioxide levels in the blood such as in COPD patients, the body will begin to rely more on the oxygen receptors and less on the carbon dioxide receptors. And that in this case, when there is an increase in oxygen levels the body will decrease the rate of respiration.
 
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