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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

EADD Heroin Discussion v. XXII -- Brucey Bonus Beetles all round!

We evolved to breathe a mix of O2 and Nitrogen at a 21:78 (roughly) ratio, extracting the former via RBC's and lungs. It may only be Oxygen, it still royally fucks up yo' shit if concentrated.
The simple physical damage to the lungs is bad enough, but the indirect halting of any and all metabolic processes resulting from enzyme damage is a bitch as fatal as she is beautiful.
 
It does fuck your veins yeah.... With care they can go some way. Heroin and care don't go hand in glove though.

3fpm, that's a vein killer. Harold Shipman of vein slaughter.
 
Yeah, exactly. And my apologies if that read as though i was telling you something you didn't already know.
Looking back it comes across as a little patronising, so i hope you didnt take it that way.

Funny how even life's greatest necessities are lethal in excess.

29g1ykz.jpg


(Figured this thread needed some Burroughs to get it back on track)

Speaking of "tracks", do UK smack users get bad vein damage and scar tissue from shooting that afghan brown base - and the citric (of other) acid used to get it into solution?
I imagine it must be pretty rough on people's injection sites, especially if they have poor technique, dirty/impure product and/or use too much citric acid than is needed?

The shit over here dissolves in cold water. No heating or acid required. Hardly even needs much of a stir, its that soluble.
I guess the upside for you guys is the (more effective) smokability of your gear.

No I didnt take it that way at all....it's a very interesting point that most people are unaware of.

I think the problem of injecting base heroin is people use way too much citric or vit c than is needed therefore creating a solution with too low a ph and this causes vein damage....there is a good video on YouTube about this somewhere ....
 
Yeah, i thought that was the case.
But man - the way people in the states shoot that black tar heroin does my head in. That shit looks fucking filthy.
While i hear some of it is quite nice, the idea of IVing that stuff is rather grim (to me, at least).
 
Vit C is much kinder on the veins. Too much cost for drug services though.

I used to buy pins/micronfilters/vitC in large quantities online. Not expensive really. The pins were/are so much better than your standard insulin 1mls...

Save your veins kidz
 
Really sorry to hear that Tinker. Great that you pulled through though.

I went through something similar myself being diagnosed with nodular melanoma which thankfully responded to treatment.

Clonidine is ok but I think it depends in the size and nature of the opiate addiction you are withdrawing from. A small pill or H habbit should respond well but in my own circumstances (180mg methadone) nothing is really gonna touch that .

It does work well with pregabalin to help you sleep and reduce that horrible anxious feeling.

I think clonidine, pregabalin and a benzo are the best three comfort meds available and will reduce symptoms considerably. Shame pregabin and benzos have their own associated withdrawal though.

Is clonidine something youd try?

England, you've been through the ringer! Sorry about the tumor! And your jump was one of the most extreme I've heard.

I absolutely would use clonadine, but no access. I have been told my habit's pretty small-50-60 mgs of hydrocodone scripted for an actual condition.
 
Yeah that doesnt sound too extreme....I think clonidine would really help if you could get it

Mine was prescribed for pain as well....after maxing out morphine , oxy and fentanyl they put me on methadone tabs. . I tried reducing to 100 jumped and failed then went back on at 180 jumped again and was sucessful. Still having severe pain problems though but opiates just dont suit me unfortunately.
 
Different in COPD patients Julie...

Quote from wiki.


where there are chronically high carbon dioxide levels in the blood such as in COPD patients, the body will begin to rely more on the oxygen receptors and less on the carbon dioxide receptors. And that in this case, when there is an increase in oxygen levels the body will decrease the rate of respiration.

Desensitising systemic chemoreceptors to aerobic influx is quite the feat and a lil' outside the realms of standard physiology.
Once the serotransferrins/Haemoglobin latch onto an O2 molecule it is the detection by receptor proteins in the circulatory system and subsequent neurosynaptic signalling to the Medulla that holds most significance, hypoxic acidosis is a scenario of its own.
 
But isn't hypoxic acidosis or even the consequence, metabolic acidosis reversible with O2? Plus a few items in the IV?
 
Desensitising systemic chemoreceptors to aerobic influx is quite the feat and a lil' outside the realms of standard physiology.
Once the serotransferrins/Haemoglobin latch onto an O2 molecule it is the detection by receptor proteins in the circulatory system and subsequent neurosynaptic signalling to the Medulla that holds most significance, hypoxic acidosis is a scenario of its own.

That's a bit beyond my knowledge scope sprout.

We are just taught the danger of administering high flow O2 (15ltrs /mIn) to someone with COPD due to hypoxic drive. For the purpose of what I need to do thats about as detailed as my training needs to be

Do you know much about paraquat poisioning? Were just taught that supplemental O2 is a big no-no in such a case...
 
Street #3 needs less than a point of Ascorbate/Citric to dissolve every grain of Diamorphine in a gram.
The impurities that simply refuse to consider the very concept of water solubility and so settle in the base of the cooker lead some to dumping stupidly excessive amounts of Vit C into the solution believing it to be undissolved Heroin. Anything left in your spoon after 150mg/g Citric and lightly agitating without heat ain't gear, it is but a testament to the stupidity of the MorphineMonkey cutting it with bathroom sealant before sale.
 
But isn't hypoxic acidosis or even the consequence, metabolic acidosis reversible with O2? Plus a few items in the IV?
Oxygen alone, no. It is the understated "few items" in solution that treat/reverse acidosis both pulmonary and metabolic/systemic.
Principally the bicarbonate ions [HCO3-] draw protons/positively charged molecules/acids/*insert synonym* out of circulation upon direct contact in blood and through the renal walls along diffuse/osmotic/active transport chemogradients and directly interacts with the chemoreceptors as the yin to oxygen's yang (direct antagonist).
The Na/Mg/Ca/Cl ions added alongside help to regulate the basification occurring before aiding normal cellular processes.

That's a bit beyond my knowledge scope sprout.

We are just taught the danger of administering high flow O2 (15ltrs /mIn) to someone with COPD due to hypoxic drive. For the purpose of what I need to do thats about as detailed as my training needs to be

Do you know much about paraquat poisioning? Were just taught that supplemental O2 is a big no-no in such a case...
Pfffft! Anything outside one's knowledge scope is simply something you haven't yet learned! ;)
COPD prominently presents fibrotic and vacuolar physiology, the mechanical disruption from such screws up the concentration gradients within lung tissue due to inconsistent volumes of air inhaled with little regulation of frequency being physically prevented from passing efficiently. Flooding an obstructed airway with concentrated O2 would induce fairly significant oxidative stress and subsequent cellular death much more readily than in persons of non-clinical pulmonary physiology.

Haven't heard "paraquat" for a while, the nomenclature based name of Methyl Viologen is much more common IME.
Though you could call it "Dave" and it'd still bend your system over and fuck it like a remarkably libidinous two dollar whore.
The mimicry of polyamine(s) and subsequently becoming a concentrated slush in the lungs (alveolar vessels and sacs) is one thing, and akin to various cytotoxins a la Fluoroacetate in mitochondria. That its structure is highly reactive and most importantly reversibly so and thus the constant eternal metabolism of superoxide (less Marvel, more ubertoxin) radicals is quite the unique kick in the teeth though. The impact in the lungs also pales in comparison to that presented once deposition in the renal system occurs, obliterating any efficacy of filtration like that which exists as the entire purpose of a kidney and thus quickly inducing systemic signalling issues and associated cell death.

Doesn't it also have a habit of appearing inactive/in remission in pulmonary scans/imaging until getting bored and inducing massive tumour cascades a few years down the line?
If it isn't detailed in my to-hand tox. literature I may have to prod Google later on for reading material so... cheers, I guess. =D
 
Oxygen alone, no. It is the understated "few items" in solution that treat/reverse acidosis both pulmonary and metabolic/systemic.
Principally the bicarbonate ions [HCO3-] draw protons/positively charged molecules/acids/*insert synonym* out of circulation upon direct contact in blood and through the renal walls along diffuse/osmotic/active transport chemogradients and directly interacts with the chemoreceptors as the yin to oxygen's yang (direct antagonist).
The Na/Mg/Ca/Cl ions added alongside help to regulate the basification occurring before aiding normal cellular processes.


Pfffft! Anything outside one's knowledge scope is simply something you haven't yet learned! ;)
COPD prominently presents fibrotic and vacuolar physiology, the mechanical disruption from such screws up the concentration gradients within lung tissue due to inconsistent volumes of air inhaled with little regulation of frequency being physically prevented from passing efficiently. Flooding an obstructed airway with concentrated O2 would induce fairly significant oxidative stress and subsequent cellular death much more readily than in persons of non-clinical pulmonary physiology.

Haven't heard "paraquat" for a while, the nomenclature based name of Methyl Viologen is much more common IME.
Though you could call it "Dave" and it'd still bend your system over and fuck it like a remarkably libidinous two dollar whore.
The mimicry of polyamine(s) and subsequently becoming a concentrated slush in the lungs (alveolar vessels and sacs) is one thing, and akin to various cytotoxins a la Fluoroacetate in mitochondria. That its structure is highly reactive and most importantly reversibly so and thus the constant eternal metabolism of superoxide (less Marvel, more ubertoxin) radicals is quite the unique kick in the teeth though. The impact in the lungs also pales in comparison to that presented once deposition in the renal system occurs, obliterating any efficacy of filtration like that which exists as the entire purpose of a kidney and thus quickly inducing systemic signalling issues and associated cell death.

Doesn't it also have a habit of appearing inactive/in remission in pulmonary scans/imaging until getting bored and inducing massive tumour cascades a few years down the line?
If it isn't detailed in my to-hand tox. literature I may have to prod Google later on for reading material so... cheers, I guess. =D

Pftt!! We are shown a PowerPoint slide of a big spray canister with "paraquat" on the side and a sentence saying "O2 therapy not advised.....risk of death"

And that's about it. Royal College of Paramedics training manuals can leave a bit to be desired sometimes :)
 
Oxygen alone, no. It is the understated "few items" in solution that treat/reverse acidosis both pulmonary and metabolic/systemic.
Principally the bicarbonate ions [HCO3-] draw protons/positively charged molecules/acids/*insert synonym* out of circulation upon direct contact in blood and through the renal walls along diffuse/osmotic/active transport chemogradients and directly interacts with the chemoreceptors as the yin to oxygen's yang (direct antagonist).
The Na/Mg/Ca/Cl ions added alongside help to regulate the basification occurring before aiding normal cellular processes.

Thanks, Sprout, I'm learning alot-I know the what but not why. I know enough to look at the blood gases, chem panel and look at the anion gap, but not how the additional meds operate.
 
Paramedical professional education, laydeez and gentlemenz, amounts to Paraquat aerosol .jpgs within .ppt files...
I keed, obvs.

I do sometimes wonder if my not attending Med. School directly after A-Levels was/is a disguised blessing.
I mean... just picture me leering over your hospital bed... palpating the power button on your life-support... sticking cold, sharp steel spikes into your pretty lil' veins.... all while answering solely to "Doctor Sprout".
;)
 
Leaving medical school after two years is my biggest regret...wish could go back and give my 24 year old self a slap....

Other than my paramedic science degree that I got later on and was paid for by the Trust all I have to show from my higher education in my early 20s is a Financial Economics degree that's barely worth the paper it's printed on..

You do have to do two weeks of essential annual training every year to update skills , learn about any new drugs being introduced etc. But it's not all that in depth... Case in point the introduction of transexamic acid a year or two back....the training for the administration of which was laughable..
 
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