Kratom The Kratom Megathread

[belfort]

Question about kratom: My sister takes methadone (about 40 mgs as needed) about 5 times a week (for her severe headaches due to a neck injury,) as well as 2mgs. Klonopin twice daily for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia. I want to be clear that she doesn't mix these things all at once, but she does take all of them on a pretty regular basis. Anyway, she wanted to try Kratom, but didn't know if it would work due to methadone's cross -tolerance with opiates/opiate-like drugs. She had taken her methadone dose at about 10 last night, and today was feeling particularly anxious amd depressed. So even though (as mentioned before) she doesn't typically combine drugs, today she took a 2mg Klonopin and smoked a bowl. She had the notorious munchies, and took a trip up to the convenience store; they sold Kratom, and she bought a 4 pack of Maeng-Da Organic Krarom, as well as one of those "Zen" shots which supposedly has Kratom in in. She took the whole shot and took 2 pills. She says she feels very relaxed and heavily buzzed, and and I would say that it was because of the weed and the Klonopin. However, she said that she felt an opiate-like high as well (and it can't be from the methadone, as it wore off this morning). Therefore she thinks that the methadone did not have a cross tolerance with the Kratom. It could be the weed/ Klonopin combo, or just placebo effect. I know there's no way to know, since for some, weed+Xanax by itself causes an opiate-like high, but I just want some opinions/ analysis...

id tell her to lay off the kratom..she is already taking too many drugs s is..she is taking a very hard opiate(methadone, benzos and tranquilizers..no need to add anything else to the mix..

 

[Mycophile]

Has anyone here ever combined Kratom EXTRACT with Phenibut and if so, how was it different as opposed to combining plain leaf Kratom with Phenibut and did you feel the combo was safe in terms of no serious CNS depression?

I've done plain leaf Kratom on Phenibut several times and liked it and plan on trying a combo of Kratom extract with Phenibut and figure it shouldn't be too bad in terms of CNS depression considering I felt safe the one time I drank a bottle of red wine on Kratom Extract.

Do people here feel like this combo shouldn't be considerably less safe than the combo of plain leaf Kratom and Phenibut??

 

[RDP89]

I seem to get sporadic sinus infections from taking kratom. Before it happened when Id take too high a dose but this time it happend when i took the exact same dose as normal which confused me. Lasts for up to 3 weeks in the past.

Tons of flourescent orange mucous and a annoying tickle cough. I thought it was withdrawals first but there dont seem to be the other symptoms ppl mention on here of that.

In the past it would come if I took too much over a normal dose but I took the same dose as I usually do last week but the only difference was using a blend with 1g of red vein borneo which I hadnt used in a while, Id just been using the uppy strains such as thai and white vein borneo. Then towards the end of the day I started feeling that funky feeling and dreaded dry eyes and general malaise then the sinus crap came back for the past several days. And when my sinuses are packed up I find it hard to get up in the morning like a lead weight is in my head.

I dont see how it could be withdrawal since I only started again recently after a month's break, and before the months break Id been on a longer run on the kratom and had no symptoms like that when I quit for the month.

I would say either tainted kratom or an allergy are my only guesses.

 

[RDP89]

Has anyone here ever combined Kratom EXTRACT with Phenibut and if so, how was it different as opposed to combining plain leaf Kratom with Phenibut and did you feel the combo was safe in terms of no serious CNS depression?

I've done plain leaf Kratom on Phenibut several times and liked it and plan on trying a combo of Kratom extract with Phenibut and figure it shouldn't be too bad in terms of CNS depression considering I felt safe the one time I drank a bottle of red wine on Kratom Extract.

Do people here feel like this combo shouldn't be considerably less safe than the combo of plain leaf Kratom and Phenibut??

It entirely depends on whether it's an actual legitimate extract or has compounds added.

 

[Mycophile]

It entirely depends on whether it's an actual legitimate extract or has compounds added.

It's a legit company but I don't know if they add things to the extracts.

Anyway I did this combo last night, 2 different Extracts with Phenibut but took too much Phenibut and was nodding out which I hadn't wanted but it felt good before that but I don't really like nodding out, especially when it means being as tired and groggy as I was.

And when I was nodding out my mouth felt REALLY dry and it was hard to swallow. I don't think my throat was really closing up so to speak as I COULD swallow but it was just harder and my throat and mouth were very dry all night even a little after I woke up this morning.

Anyone know why that might have been?

It was definitely something caused by either the Kratom Extract and/or Phenibut.

The combo of that with the nodding at the same time felt a bit worrisome like I thought it meant I'd get CNS depression so I used my inhaler a few times (I have mild asthma) but I'm thinking that was probably just anxiety as it was really just dry throat/cotton mouth combined with nodding out.

I think the nodding was probably caused more by the Phenibut than the extract but may have been the combo.

 

[FlawedByDesign]

how exactly does kratom affect your testosterone levels?how do you know it is os what i mean??

wtf u get the munchies on kratom!?!?i get the exact opposite, i have to force myself to eat on it....

I just saw this. I can tell opiates including kratom fuck with my testosterone. I'm much more sexually active when I'm clean and have an unintentional "tough guy" mentality that is somewhat curbed by opiate use.

 

[Mycophile]

Is there anyone here who has ever gotten to the point where they had a MASSIVE tolerance for plain leaf Kratom and if so, how long a break did you need to take to get your tolerance down to a normal level??

I don't know how I've managed to do it, especially since I am NOT physically addicted to Kratom and only take it 3 days a week, but I can just put this stuff away like crazy.

Today I had almost an ounce of plain leaf, about 27 grams in only 7 fucking hours!!!

And what confuses me is that before last week I went 17 days without Kratom and my tolerance didn't even go back to normal.

Some of it may have to do with strains because I find that the white strains just don't have as much effect on me as greens and reds, but mostly I just find my tolerance has always been big.

When I first used Kratom it already took about 7.5 grams to get me high and 4 didn't really do much to me like it does for some others, but in no time it became the norm for me to need at least 10 grams, then quickly more.

And I don't even use a lot of extract...I mean I did use extract on Saturday, but I usually just use plain leaf.

Is it odd that I can go through an ounce in a day if I'm not careful, even despite NOT being physically dependent on it or using it more than 3 days a week??

 

[Mycophile]

Are there people who just lose their ability to get euphoria from Kratom because they used too much, or can most people get that euphoria back by taking a long enough break??

I still get high off it, but the amounts I have to take to get where I want are just getting ridiculous.

Oh but one thing I should mention about how high my tolerance is is that i DON'T take it on am empty stomach and now I'm thinking I may need to start so that might be one reason I need so much.

But how long after you dose can you eat without it diminishing your high??

I can't not eat AT ALL while on Kratom.

 

[furryfreek]

You say you're not physically addicted which I don't deny but I reckon you're just on the verge of that happening and I wouldn't be surprised if there was already some degree of psychological addiction at play (I always used to think kratom was addictive in a purely physical sense but, in retrospect, it can play a lot of subtle mind games that you never notice at the time.) After I'd worked my way up from 15g/day (3x5g doses) to 36g/day (3x12g) over the course of three months and went cold-turkey, it took six months to get back close to baseline tolerance. However, it's lost a bit of its "magic" and my tolerance now builds up way faster than it used to and takes longer to dissipate. Now, if I take a 4-5g two days in a row, I've developed a significant tolerance (~1.5x) by the second day and I then get rebound effects that last a couple of days (though it's only just noticeable the second day) whereas before my addiction, tolerance used to be a thing that happened over weeks, not days, and I only suffered rebound/withdrawal after five or so days of consecutive use.

I think you could possibly get your tolerance back to baseline without much, if any, long term damage after two or three months of abstinence and, TBH, this is probably about the right time for you to think about doing that as you really could be teetering on the edge of a steep and slippery slope if that tolerance gets much higher.

EDIT: Oh, it isn't very pleasant or practical (esp. with any significant tolerance) but if you're after faster onset, you can prepare for a toss-n-wash as normal but with a bit more more leaf, less liquid and then just swish the stuff around in your mouth for as log as you can bear it. The only problem comes after that as it gets pretty damn foul tasting and turns to a consistency that I find seriously gag inducing. So in practice it's more a matter of: toss, swish, spit half, wash, toss other half & wash again.

 

[joshii123]

Just a quick question, to understand the euphoria of this would I have to have tried an opiate ? Is it intense the euphoria?

 

[sekio]

Is it odd that I can go through an ounce in a day if I'm not careful, even despite NOT being physically dependent on it or using it more than 3 days a week??

Nope. But it's good to remember that tolerance and physical dependence are two separate processes. You can develop a large tolerance to opioids without being dependent on them.

If you always using the kratom in the same setting, you can also expect to experience less intense effects, too. There's a certain amount of tolerance that can be ascribed to mentally being used to taking drugs.

BTW, if you're using *any* kratom extracts, you can pretty much guarantee your tolerance will go through the roof. It's just too convenient to take a dose that would normally be considered crazy with some of those extracts, and as others have mentioned, there's suspicion that some "extracts" contain other opioids.

But how long after you dose can you eat without it diminishing your high??

I never believed in this, in fact, having food in your stomach can make the high better, IMO. 'cause you're not starving. Toss and wash your kratom, wait ~20 mins, and you should be OK to snack.

 

[Mycophile]

You say you're not physically addicted which I don't deny but I reckon you're just on the verge of that happening and I wouldn't be surprised if there was already some degree of psychological addiction at play (I always used to think kratom was addictive in a purely physical sense but, in retrospect, it can play a lot of subtle mind games that you never notice at the time.) After I'd worked my way up from 15g/day (3x5g doses) to 36g/day (3x12g) over the course of three months and went cold-turkey, it took six months to get back close to baseline tolerance. However, it's lost a bit of its "magic" and my tolerance now builds up way faster than it used to and takes longer to dissipate. Now, if I take a 4-5g two days in a row, I've developed a significant tolerance (~1.5x) by the second day and I then get rebound effects that last a couple of days (though it's only just noticeable the second day) whereas before my addiction, tolerance used to be a thing that happened over weeks, not days, and I only suffered rebound/withdrawal after five or so days of consecutive use.

I think you could possibly get your tolerance back to baseline without much, if any, long term damage after two or three months of abstinence and, TBH, this is probably about the right time for you to think about doing that as you really could be teetering on the edge of a steep and slippery slope if that tolerance gets much higher.

EDIT: Oh, it isn't very pleasant or practical (esp. with any significant tolerance) but if you're after faster onset, you can prepare for a toss-n-wash as normal but with a bit more more leaf, less liquid and then just swish the stuff around in your mouth for as log as you can bear it. The only problem comes after that as it gets pretty damn foul tasting and turns to a consistency that I find seriously gag inducing. So in practice it's more a matter of: toss, swish, spit half, wash, toss other half & wash again.

Of course I am to some extent psychologically addicted as most people are when they like a drug they are using, but I'm not going to allow physical dependence to happen.

Even though I took nearly an ounce today I went 3 days in a row between Sunday and Tuesday without dosing and I'd think 3 days would be enough to get WD if I was going to get any don't you??

And I have managed to stave off physical dependence by only dosing 3 days a week so far.

But I hear what you are saying, only I just took a 17 days break right before last week, so I don't believe it's necessary to avoid physical dependence, but I do want my tolerance to go down.

Do you think that a month would make my tolerance go down since 17 days didn't do it??

I was surprised my tolerance stayed the same after 17 days.

As far as your "slippery slope" comment, what do you think would happen if my tolerance got higher??

Because since I seem to consistently avoid WD, so long as I'm able to keep doing so the "slippery slope" here seems to just be wasting large amounts of Kratom and feeling like it's getting ridiculous to dose that high.

I would take a month break, but I don't really want to take a longer one than that seeing as I did just come off a 17 day once.

I just want to be able to take it 3 days a week as usual but not have to dose so high.

That's interesting about you saying it can kick in faster if I swish the leaf around in my mouth for a while, I never heard that before.


Perhaps If I am not going to take a break right now the next best thing would be to have a cutoff of how much I can take in a certain day regardless of if I get as high as I am planning on.

It's not always easy, but at least it would keep me from wasting so much, and it would prevent my tolerance from getting even higher despite not actually making it go down.

 

[Mycophile]

Nope. But it's good to remember that tolerance and physical dependence are two separate processes. You can develop a large tolerance to opioids without being dependent on them.

If you always using the kratom in the same setting, you can also expect to experience less intense effects, too. There's a certain amount of tolerance that can be ascribed to mentally being used to taking drugs.

BTW, if you're using *any* kratom extracts, you can pretty much guarantee your tolerance will go through the roof. It's just too convenient to take a dose that would normally be considered crazy with some of those extracts, and as others have mentioned, there's suspicion that some "extracts" contain other opioids.



I never believed in this, in fact, having food in your stomach can make the high better, IMO. 'cause you're not starving. Toss and wash your kratom, wait ~20 mins, and you should be OK to snack.

The set and setting point is a good one, as I noticed earlier I felt less high in doors and when I went out I felt more high, which I would simply attribute to doing more and having more scenery around in which to feel a high rather than sitting in one place.

As far as eating, I have noticed at times that my high can be more intense with less food in my stomach, but there are also more unpleasant side effects to doing it on an empty stomach.

How long a break do you think I would need to take to see my tolerance go down??

Since 17 days didn't do it I'm thinking I'd probably need twice that long for it to happen at least, maybe a month or so.

Do you think it is possible to get back more of the euphoria I was getting before by taking a break?

Also, do you know what Kratom's half life is and how long do you think one needs to abstain to prove that they aren't physically dependent??

When I've asked people before the consensus has usually been that any withdrawal symptoms would happen within 48 hours of abstaining and that the half life is around 7 hours...so would you agree that abstaining for 3 days in a row and not getting WD probably proves that I'm not physically dependent??

 

[Mycophile]

Just a quick question, to understand the euphoria of this would I have to have tried an opiate ? Is it intense the euphoria?

The euphoria can be pretty nice.

It will just be easier to imagine what the high will be like if you have done an opioid before rather than having to compare it to drugs which are more distantly related or not related at all.

Kratom feels somewhat similar to hydrocodone in some ways but if you've tried a number of other drugs and you've experienced any kind of drug euphoria you might still be able to imagine what it might feel like I guess.

 

[joshii123]

Thanks for reply.

I'm fairly interested in this one for some reason I'm not sure why.

Do we know what the toxity is like within this? What are common route of admin? I know I should read this thread so I'll get to it.

Have a nice day everyone

 

[Mycophile]

Thanks for reply.

I'm fairly interested in this one for some reason I'm not sure why.

Do we know what the toxity is like within this? What are common route of admin? I know I should read this thread so I'll get to it.

Have a nice day everyone

What do you mean by "what is the toxicity like"?

Kratom doesn't cause serious CNS depression or almost any CNS depression at all and there have been no deaths recorded that are a direct result of plain leaf Kratom use without other substances.

It's still not 100% safe and unfortunately there have not been a lot of modern tests run on it.

Kratom can be taken as a tea or "toss n' wash" basically, putting it in your mouth and washing it down with water.

Those are usually the two ways it is taken.

 

[Mycophile]

Man, all this time I was only thinking about how to avoid physical dependence, which I have managed to do so far, but I never considered the need to avoid excessive tolerance.

Now this is a whole new challenge.

If anyone else who is an experienced Kratom user wants to give me their methods for getting their tolerance back down in terms of how long they abstain for, and/or how they ration themselves to lower doses to get their tolerance back, I'd appreciate it.

 

[alexvolume2]

IDK guys, I have a pretty high tolerance and take at least 6.5 to 10 grams in the morning, but after going a week without kratom (or most opioids, for that matter) I feel like tolerance is reduced so much that I get especially high-but not the high I used to get, of course...I rarely go a day without taking kratom, though. I caught a good nod last week with 7 grams kratom, 25 mg hydrocodone, 1 gram pregabalin, and 4 grams of phenibut. It takes at least phenibut and weed to nod with kratom for me. I had pretty bad respiratory depression from this combo, however.

My tolerance to kratom has topped out at about 12 grams per dose, I can't stomach taking any more.

At least I'm not taking heroin or PST anymore, I suppose.

 

[Beavesmx44]

I have to vote this for funniest thread on BL. Bunch of people excessively worried over one of the most trivial substances discussed on the site. Take your kratom.....enjoy it. Move on with life and worry about things that matter. If natural anxiety is that high the only meds you should take are benzos and/or anti-psychs. I know this contributes nothing to the discussion but let's all take off our tin foil hats shall we.

 

[Mycophile]

I have to vote this for funniest thread on BL. Bunch of people excessively worried over one of the most trivial substances discussed on the site. Take your kratom.....enjoy it. Move on with life and worry about things that matter. If natural anxiety is that high the only meds you should take are benzos and/or anti-psychs. I know this contributes nothing to the discussion but let's all take off our tin foil hats shall we.

It's not all excessive worry, it's people talking about things like managing tolerance, avoiding addiction, and also just talking about Kratom in general, potentiators, learning more about it in general, etc.