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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

New (and less new) RCs - Alphabet Soup

I remember that 2cb became quite popular on "the scene" in Yorkshire around 2005... About the time a few newish drugs landed e.g ket, ghb etc and followed very shortly by neo doves(what became of neo doves eh?). I don't remember any deaths attributed to 2cb though.
 
SproutOnSmack said:
Probably a good idea tbh, I could see dependency forming very quickly with 3-FPM. Tolerance does seem to rise rather exponentially, too - the first few doses are certainly pretty special, but it quickly loses the euphoric edge and instead becomes a pretty typical stimulant with quite heavy peripheral effects. It has all the hallmarks of a "binge stimulant"; initially greatly euphoric but with rapidly diminishing returns, a short acute duration but heavy residual stimulation, remarkable redose compulsion, potential for functional use but a sharp dose-response curve, increased potency via intranasal/inhalation/injection over oral use, strong anorectic properties...
I could go on but I think I've made my point.

I am quite fearful for this being banned, not because I enjoy it, but I could see it being sold en-masse to unsuspecting "weekend warriors" and causing serious issues, not unlike the emergence of EPD as "Magic".
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Tbh, I'm still trying to work out why I like it so much... Probably the fact that it's so bleedin unpredictable. Regarding the diuretic effects you mention, I find I actually piss much less than I normally would, but when I do piss, its almost fluorescent orange in colour! This scared me at first, but it only lasts for a day or so.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Tbh, I'm still trying to work out why I like it so much... Probably the fact that it's so bleedin unpredictable. Regarding the diuretic effects you mention, I find I actually piss much less than I normally would, but when I do piss, its almost fluorescent orange in colour! This scared me at first, but it only lasts for a day or so.
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What's the opposite of diuretic? My friend struggles quite badly with not being able to have a wee on stims. Hell be stood for an hour in various positions to try and have a pee.

Is this not a problem with this substance?
 
itsonlyme123 said:
What's the opposite of diuretic? My friend struggles quite badly with not being able to have a wee on stims. Hell be stood for an hour in various positions to try and have a pee.

Is this not a problem with this substance?
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Urinary retention is very common with stimulants, and opiates, too. Some are worse than others (MDMA is a bitch for it!) but there are ways to combat it.
I haven't found 3-FPM to present significant retention, though I haven't had any opiates today and typically my first WD symptom is major diuresis so that could be a factor.
 
SproutOnSmack said:
Urinary retention is very common with stimulants, and opiates, too. Some are worse than others (MDMA is a bitch for it!) but there are ways to combat it.
I haven't found 3-FPM to present significant retention, though I haven't had any opiates today and typically my first WD symptom is major diuresis so that could be a factor.
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I've always found that forcing a big drink and/or getting a shower always helps if I cant wee. Its rarely a problem for me on stims anyway and I rarely use gear anymore but just as an aside is there any tried and tested methods to help with this problem?
 
itsonlyme123 said:
What's the opposite of diuretic? My friend struggles quite badly with not being able to have a wee on stims. Hell be stood for an hour in various positions to try and have a pee.

Is this not a problem with this substance?
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Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I personally find I don't need to piss (or shit) on this stuff at all - but when I do, its bright orange. I know what you mean about certain drugs making it difficult to pee though - for me its MDMA and heroin. 3fpm doesn't have this effect on me however...
 
itsonlyme123 said:
I've always found that forcing a big drink and/or getting a shower always helps if I cant wee. Its rarely a problem for me on stims anyway and I rarely use gear anymore but just as an aside is there any tried and tested methods to help with this problem?
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MDMA causes the infamous and almost ubiquitous retention mainly by altering hormone levels, in particular; anti-diuretic hormone. ADH levels spike after ingestion and make urination impossible, it is possible to mitigate this by consuming an inhibitor of ADH. Alcohol and Caffeine both exhibit this effect (hence their diuretic effects) and so I, personally, consume a small amount of alcohol (1-3 units) and a threshold amount of caffeine if the retention isn't reduced by simpler methods: sitting down and running one's hands under cold water.

The retention is what leads to the unfortunate instances of people on MDMA dying through water intoxication. The body temperature rise and extensive physical activity (like dancing) causes people to drink excess water in an attempt to cool off, but if they are not urinating out the excess, electrolyte imbalances occur given the dilution of blood plasma. Insufficient Sodium and Potassium concentration leads to all sorts of nasty physiological symptoms. There seems to be a big myth in dance culture that alcohol should not be consumed with MDMA, even though it can help massively.
Obviously, alcohol has its own side effects and the reduced inhibitions when mixed with MDMA may lead to risky behaviour, but to me it is preferable to dying as a result of urinary retention.
 
SproutOnSmack said:
MDMA causes the infamous and almost ubiquitous retention mainly by altering hormone levels, in particular; anti-diuretic hormone. ADH levels spike after ingestion and make urination impossible, it is possible to mitigate this by consuming an inhibitor of ADH. Alcohol and Caffeine both exhibit this effect (hence their diuretic effects) and so I, personally, consume a small amount of alcohol (1-3 units) and a threshold amount of caffeine if the retention isn't reduced by simpler methods: sitting down and running one's hands under cold water.

The retention is what leads to the unfortunate instances of people on MDMA dying through water intoxication. The body temperature rise and extensive physical activity (like dancing) causes people to drink excess water in an attempt to cool off, but if they are not urinating out the excess, electrolyte imbalances occur given the dilution of blood plasma. Insufficient Sodium and Potassium concentration leads to all sorts of nasty physiological symptoms. There seems to be a big myth in dance culture that alcohol should not be consumed with MDMA, even though it can help massively.
Obviously, alcohol has its own side effects and the reduced inhibitions when mixed with MDMA may lead to risky behaviour, but to me it is preferable to dying as a result of urinary retention.
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Would neat or pretty neat coffee do the trick? A spoonful or two in a bit of hot water maybe?
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Good post Sprout...
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Cheers. The 3-FPM helps with writing such posts. ;)

itsonlyme123 said:
Would neat or pretty neat coffee do the trick? A spoonful or two in a bit of hot water maybe?
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Obviously, I cannot say for sure. It depends on the level of inhibition, current electrolyte levels, food consumption, fluid levels throughout the day, caffeine tolerance etc.,
A small amount of Caffeine doesn't present particularly significant risks, but obviously adding excess amounts of a thermogenic PNS stimulant to MDMA should be avoided. I find alcohol more reliable, it's more likely to be served in nightclubs than coffee, it's served cold, doesn't add as much cardiac stress and should help with the comedown.
A good choice is to drink isotonic sports drinks, like Gatorade, as they will not only hydrate you but replenish depleted electrolytes.

Also; the "shrinkage" is a result of vasoconstriction - benzos are very handy at reducing the constriction and thus reversing the... "observable" impact.
 
Interesting about Alcohol and MDMA. I pretty much always drink it before MDMA and switch to water when it hits until it is starting to ware off. It massively helps smooth out the come up jitters too.
 
growit&smokeit said:
Interesting about Alcohol and MDMA. I pretty much always drink it before MDMA and switch to water when it hits until it is starting to ware off. It massively helps smooth out the come up jitters too.
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It is helpful at reducing come-up anxiety and the unpleasantness of the comedown. :)

The amount of people I've tried to explain it to whilst out is irritating, if people were more informed about the substances they ingest then the odds of someone sweating themselves to death at raves is much lower.
 
On the subject of alcohol and stims, I find that a few shots of vodka help to massively reduce the more unpleasant side effects from 3fpm ( throw in some benzos to the mix and you're pretty much sorted)

Disclaimer: NEVER mix powerful stimulants, alcohol and benzodiazepines..)
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
On the subject of alcohol and stims, I find that a few shots of vodka help to massively reduce the more unpleasant side effects from 3fpm ( throw in some benzos to the mix and you're pretty much sorted)

Disclaimer: NEVER mix powerful stimulants, alcohol and benzodiazepines..)
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Good hr there. I always use ghb/GBL. Its bad news drinking on stims, you don't feel the 12 doubles at the time but you certainly feel the hangover.
 
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