Ebola outbreak - West Africa

[Vurtual]

So if this is about righting wrongs why are we allowing immigrants from Romania? As far as I know Britain hasn't exploited the Romanians - they were on Hitlers side in the last war as well. Why do they deserve a share in UK wealth? Why not invite over the population of a country that we wronged?

And why don't the disabled in those countries get our help and a share in the wealth? Why not give a hand to the disabled in a wronged country instead of only those young enough to travel here? I'd rather a foreign kid in a wheelchair got a share in UK wealth instead of some shifty looking cunt in Page Hall with a vest stretched over his beer gut.

(we've had this debate before) mass immigration happens as it does currently for neoliberal purposes to keep wages down and i don't agree with that system. However, while there's enough wealth to feed the whole world multiple times just sitting there in the city of london i won't begrudge anyone coming here for economic reasons (yes we should build extra infrastructure and we can afford it easily (it will even create growth)). While the octopus of international finance stretches it's tentacles into every country (we know what happens to any that opt out of it) determining their economic conditions to suit itself, with armies to enforce it, we've no right to turn anyone away - it's in our country that this system runs from, not theirs - maybe the immigrants that come here will have enough balls to help us sort it out cos us supine brits haven't yet (if we're even aware of it).

[to try and be on topic: The coverage of this ebola thing mainly seems like a horrible mix of fear porn and racism to me ('oh if they could only wash their hands'). Then saying 'they' fear western doctors/ngos - never seen constant gardener? (or read about how they found bin laden, or sterilised people, gave people syphilis etc) (that's without even getting onto that Litton industries document (tin foil alert...)

 

[Ismene]

I think they are pretty clueless tho vurtual - the last I heard they were kidnapping relatives with it and taking them back to the village so they could perform spells on them and then washing the body after they'd died - which is a surefire way of catching it.

 

[Vurtual]

yep, racism.

who's 'they'? how is saying 'they' about whole countries/continents different from saying 'we' are all boozy ignorant chavs, or 'we' are all paedophiles, or 'we' are all racist bnp thugs, or 'we' are all dick van dykes with bad teeth? (or all jews are evil bankers with big noses). It's racism and i don't like it.

We're all exactly the same human animal and race doesn't really exist as a definite thing (science can't define it) - aren't we all african? - look at the anglo saxon race for an example - it doesn't even exist, just a cultural/language adoption by celtic welsh people (and the celtic 'race' was the same). The culture or social arrangement that exist in any country (and the cause of some people being cluless) doesn't arise from race but from definite historical conditions which can be changed - and if we're talking cluelessness, isn't western people's general ignorance of what our war machines get up to and acceptance of a baroque propagndised world view much worse than believing in some juju (it's just a more refined juju but with much deadlier results). Ignorance can be fixed by knowledge and understanding (on all sides) (or choose love, not fear).

('bloody hugenots! coming over here...doubting transubstantiation' (stewart lee says it better)

 

[Shambles]

I suppose they'd be a better bet than the ones with TB. I didn't think the health care system in Romania was that sparkling tho - last I read it was in total collapse. And the last Romanian I read said "The only thing left in my village when the border controls lift will be the goat" - they had a picture of the goat stood there tragically alone. They don't have electricity or running water in those villages - you shit in a hole at the bottom of the field. .

I actually know (well, have known and'or know of) quite a few people who live without electricity or running water and also shit in holes in fields here too. Yes they are choosing to live that way but they seem to struggle on through somehow. And, much as in Romania - and indeed those West African countries where there are traditional beliefs in witchcraft and the like (as well as many other beliefs same as anywhere else) - there is also electricity, running water, medical services and McDonald's and other such wonders where lots of people live - like in cities and towns. Yes the more rural end of the rural spectrum may be somewhat lacking in terms of hamburger chains and fitted bathrooms, and yes countryfolk may have a different way of thinking about things than their city slickin' cousin, that's the same everywhere.

We would laugh if a Romanian were to presume all British people wear smocks, chew straw, have sex with livestock and burn outsiders in giant effigies - it would be a ridiiculous confabulation of bits of myth and elements of truth. Much like suggesting all of Romania lives in a village soon to be left to a goat the moment they're allowed to come over here and take our jobs (which they still seem to be doing remarkably well at not doing at all and actually mostly returning to Romania rather than pounding at the imaginary wall some folk are pining for). Or indeed suggesting all the people of several countries are "kidnapping relatives" and "casting spells". Some people might have done something like that - doubt it's the latest craze really though, not really really in this 'ere real world wot we live in anyway. Other people are doing... nothing titillating enough for the Heil to whip itself and its true believers up into a frothing frenzy of - frankly - bloody stupidness. You';re not thick enough to be believing what you're saying so is either for effect or really is plain ol' racism. It's certainly not reality and you must know that. I hope you know that anyway or it's a miracle you can form sentences - even nonsensical ones that keep spazzing out in your recent posts in this thread.

 

[ScotchMist]

Not by some Tippees' are you Shambles?

Ive shit in a hole before, it felt quite liberating

 

[Shambles]

If that is one of the variant spellings of tipi or teepee or... wigwam. Or yurt or... then yes - plenty dotted about the general vicinity. If you go down to the woods to day... you'll find hippies in tipis probably. And trees. The odd surprisingly large and well-organised rave too now and then. Some of these things may or may not be connected.

I've never really considered the potential liberation of shitting in holes other than the baked in porcelain-type hole. Surely the actual oriice itself is of relatively minor importance to the overal ambience, no? Although mossy stuff or grassy things - soft outside-dwelling items - would be damnably comfy I should think. Height of hole above the ground surely makes a bigger difference than what is around the hole itself. And stray hedgehogs could be quite the menace I'd think. Fewer hedgehogs to be found in shitholes not in fields. Swings and roundabout really innit.

 

[ScotchMist]

Thats my variant of it yes... I now know...!

I guess they're all over Wales though so may not be the same one.. my mrs stayed there for a while, wanted us to do it.. as fun as shitting in a hole was I dont want to repeat it on a regular basis, although the opis do tend restrict that function somewhat so maybe it wouldnt be all that bad. Bit of chicken wire to keep out the hedgehogs..!

I kind of lost a bit of respect for them to, if you're going to cut yourself off from the world and be self sufficient then standing in the dole queue kind of spoils the ethos a little..

 

[Shambles]

Is Trustafarian Central around these parts. They're drawn in by the wind whistling through the tipi poles and the satisfying sound of shites hitting the bottom of long drops and by the pervading whiff of patchouli I suspect. That and the big eco warrior place near here where they can... do eco stuff and eat vegetarian food for several hours a day for no pay. Except for the signing on bit which pays enough to keep 'em in dreadlock wax, beanie hats and patchouli oil. Oh, and the trust fund bit probably helps out a bit here and there I'd imagine. Tipis are one thing but those yurts cost a bleedin' fortune - can't see Housing Benefit coughing up for yert rent really. They're also really nice but am not really the outdoorsy type. And down to me last half bottle of patchouli anyway.

There's a fairly well-known Tipi Valley near here that would be my guess if it was tipi-type structures in this general vicinity but there's probably quite a few dotted about. Never stayed in one but visited a few here and there. Cosy aren't they? In summer anyway - may be less comfy when valley is under a foot of snow. The shithole would be anyway. Hedgehog or no a frostbitten arse is not a happy arse.

 

[ScotchMist]

Itd be answer a. Tepoeeiiieee Valley then...!!!

Trustafarian

Anyway... ebola - nasty stuff that..!

 

[parttime crackhead]

satisfying sound of shites

This fantastic piece of alliteration has had me in stitches for the past few minutes.

 

[Shambles]

Is the thing with stimposting - toss enough words around and about the place and every now and then they fall just nice. The others on t'other hand...

Mr Mist: That would be not too far from here then I think. Not great on Welsh geography but have been driven there a few times and we arrived on the same day we left and without developing arseache so can't be that far. Long way to go to shit in a hole though so may have to find additional attractions to bring in the non-Trusta clientele. Like those big parties that don't happen there but do tend to involve tents and dreadlocked folk and wafting patchouli whiffs.

 

[BlindHelperMonkey]

IMO we can stop people coming to our country when we give back some of the wealth we've extracted from theirs, and stop fucking those countries up stopping them from having democracy because it fucks with our mafia-like 'business interests'. We do all that and they won't need to come here anyway.

Similarly if we're worried about how shit-poor countries have high disease rates, stop making them shit-poor by the same neo-imperialist policies

(imagine what africa would be like if we didn't kill people like Patrice lumumba and support the cunts we do eg in the congo or rwanda; imagine what south/central america would be like if we hadn't supported all those facsists (or killed off liberation theology); imagine what the middle east would be like if we left nasser and mossadeq alone - the world isn't as chaotic as it is by accident - neo-imperialism is still the prime cause for lots of it)

yep, racism.

who's 'they'? how is saying 'they' about whole countries/continents different from saying 'we' are all boozy ignorant chavs, or 'we' are all paedophiles, or 'we' are all racist bnp thugs, or 'we' are all dick van dykes with bad teeth? (or all jews are evil bankers with big noses). It's racism and i don't like it.

We're all exactly the same human animal and race doesn't really exist as a definite thing (science can't define it) - aren't we all african? - look at the anglo saxon race for an example - it doesn't even exist, just a cultural/language adoption by celtic welsh people (and the celtic 'race' was the same). The culture or social arrangement that exist in any country (and the cause of some people being cluless) doesn't arise from race but from definite historical conditions which can be changed - and if we're talking cluelessness, isn't western people's general ignorance of what our war machines get up to and acceptance of a baroque propagndised world view much worse than believing in some juju (it's just a more refined juju but with much deadlier results). Ignorance can be fixed by knowledge and understanding (on all sides) (or choose love, not fear)

good god this guy must be the whitest, self-flagellation-obsessed, misinformed loony, limp-wristed, gap-year-syndrome, middle-class suburban imbecile ive seen on here for quite a while. well done there, youve out crackheid'ed old ewan-mcgreasy himself. quite a feat




and to think, all these daily mail vehicles on the roads are a pure figment of the right wing agenda.. well next time that accordion-wrangling ccunt n his baboshka-decked groupie start assaulting my eardrums i can now mow them down with righteous abandon on .top of the inherent mirth gleaned from 40karat gold purveyors double-tkatchev'ing with aplomb around the windshield. drugs yknow

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Itd be answer a. Tepoeeiiieee Valley then...!!!

Easy putdown don't make it correct.

Tipi valley is at the top of the hill I live at the bottom of. There's a lot of good people there and to characterise them as 'Trustafarian' is lazy and wrong.

 

[Ismene]

yep, racism.

who's 'they'?

I think you might be tying yourself in knots now vurt. Can we agree that a bloke living in West Africa is different in some sense to a bloke living in England? Speaks a different language for example? Nothing negative about that is there?

look at the anglo saxon race for an example - it doesn't even exist, just a cultural/language adoption by celtic welsh people

Dunno about that - apparantly the genetics of english people are pretty much unchanged for the last 5000 years. All that "a nation of immigrants" stuff is bollocks. That's something Bryan Sykes an Oxford professor of genetics says - not the BNP.

and if we're talking cluelessness

You seem to be taking cluelessness about Ebola as something negative. I don't see it as negative - it just is. It's no use pretending that they're experts on the latest virus theories when they arn't.

 

[Shambles]

Easy putdown don't make it correct.

Tipi valley is at the top of the hill I live at the bottom of. There's a lot of good people there and to characterise them as 'Trustafarian' is lazy and wrong.

Was me who used the T word and did actually say they tend to be attached to CAT (didn't name the place initially cos doubt many would have heard of it so eco warrior place seemed more descriptive). That's up near me - the Tipi Valley bit is cos that's where everyone for miles around who prefers tents in fields to drunks in pubs tends to gravitate towards the Tipi vicinity (if they can find their way via means of trails of plastic bags tied to trees here and there anyway) due to the tents in fields:drunks in pubs ratio being considerably higher down there.

You would be a lot closer than me but also not so very far from where I am. Have been wondering for a while now whether our mutual reference point is actually very mutual cos I've always had it in my head you're quite a lot further down than here... but I suppose there's not all that much left anyway given I'm halfway up and Wales is a funsize country.

Funsize and rarely riddled with ebola.

 

[Ismene]

there is also electricity, running water, medical services and McDonald's and other such wonders where lots of people live - like in cities and towns.

Sure they have health care like Vanessa Feltz has a pussy - there's something down there that pee comes out of but you wouldn't recognise it.

Much like suggesting all of Romania lives in a village soon to be left to a goat the moment they're allowed to come over here and take our jobs

But we do agree that there's x million more east europeans here than there were in 2003. I don't think it's racist to point that out. I'm not exactly complimentary about white english people. It's more misanthropy than racism.

 

[Shambles]

I think you might be tying yourself in knots now vurt. Can we agree that a bloke living in West Africa is different in some sense to a bloke living in England? Speaks a different language for example? Nothing negative about that is there?

look at the anglo saxon race for an example - it doesn't even exist, just a cultural/language adoption by celtic welsh people

Dunno about that - apparantly the genetics of english people are pretty much unchanged for the last 5000 years. All that "a nation of immigrants" stuff is bollocks. That's something Bryan Sykes an Oxford professor of genetics says - not the BNP.

We (particularly the more English wes) spoke a different language not so very long (in human history terms) too. Some bits of the country still do. Nothing negative about it at all. Nothng relevant to anything much of anything being discussed in this thread so far either.

I saw the documentaries based on Prof Sykes nationwide (ish) genetic study (and his Yeti genetic study too which was on BBC2 not C4 but was on a different night and about Yetis not people so fairly sure I'm not confusing the two). Not read the book but seems to have a fairly mixed reception. Most of the complaints being that he hardly tested any English people so mostly only has actual dats for the Celtic parts of the country. And the Viking bits. Then he ran out of funding or summat so just said lots of other people invaded us for a long, long time but we presumably have to wait for the sequel to discover the results of the people he never actually got around to testing - those ones that have remained unchanged for 5000 years. Largelly cos that's probably one of his other DNA tests on ancient populations not current ones I'd imagine going by what he definitely has done. He's apparently a very respectable and conservative scientist so can only presume he'd give you very low marks on the exam if you managed to extrapolate Britons unchanged for 5000 years from DNA samples as yet still mostly unsampled. That would be rampant (and frankly silly unless all foreign invaders were impotent) speculation which differs from science due to being stuff you made up.

Just what happened to all those wave after wave of raping 'n' looting immigrants coming over here shagging our women, killing our menfolk and mostly deciding they may as well stick around now they've got themselves a wife and a second hand hut on the go? Did they all manage to die off on a regular basis and be replaced by... different rampagey rapey EU migrants? Who are actually proud Englishmen who were unfortunate enough to be born in Germany or France or somesuch foreign place that can't make a proper cup of tea. How are you not noticing this is just plain bloody stupid? Or do you have a cunning plan worked out that manages to negate all that nasty Continetal genetic input via the medium of far, far fewer native Brits cos they mostly got killed by said Continental (and Scandinavian which is foreign for sure but never really gets calle Continental... apart from Denmark maybe). Where the dwindling British (and a bit Roman here and there... and maybe a few others strays but not enough to have a proud Anglo-Saxon (which is definitely not German at all) nation names after them) also all incredibly randy buggers who were also expert in knocking up Mrs Viking-Smythe up whilst hubby was off for a hard day's raping and pillaging? That would be remarkably fortuitous for folk who may have to start hating part of their own genetic material if they couldn't continue believing things they imagined a science man (and Yeti genealogist extraordinaire) wrote it in a book. I'd keep an eye on the left leg especially. That's where I hear the Eastern European genetic migrants hang out - mostly shooting and eating swans I believe. And stealing jobs for the right knee.

 

[Shambles]

Sure they have health care like Vanessa Feltz has a pussy - there's something down there that pee comes out of but you wouldn't recognise it.

Much like suggesting all of Romania lives in a village soon to be left to a goat the moment they're allowed to come over here and take our jobs

But we do agree that there's x million more east europeans here than there were in 2003. I don't think it's racist to point that out. I'm not exactly complimentary about white english people. It's more misanthropy than racism.

They're mostly not Romanians though cos Romanian migration figures are going down not up and they were never high anyway. Those would be Polish folk and... all sorts of folk - some actually from Romania. I'm still failing to see what Eastern Europeans living here has to do with empty goat villages in Romania and the relative merits of medical systems - my dentist is Romanian dontcha know. He doesn't even still use a bit of string tied to a doorknob since moving here and learning about electric drills and lightbulbs and water to brush with instead of goat's milk. Steep learning curve for sure but he's getting there. Next week it's benzocaine instead of a bottle of vodka and a thump on the head if required.

All these things - these unrelated and unlikely things you say so reguiarly - they don't actually happen in the world as we know it - they happen in the Heil on a slow news day and they happen in whatever nightamares you have about Romanian goat medicine or whatever it is that's such a problem that the only reasonable answer is to lock ourselves in (after chucking out whichever people fail some type of test testing a thing that is a bit tenuous when actually tested I suspect - are fish & chips and milky tea actually genetic material or mostly just cultural ephemera - and not even especially Ye Olde Britishe culture at that (at least one is actually foreign I hear ).

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

I want some of what you're on Mr S.

 

[Ismene]

That would be rampant (and frankly silly unless all foreign invaders were impotent) speculation which differs from science due to being stuff you made up.

I think it's more down to the numbers shammy - a few hundred vikings arn't going to alter the gene pool of 5 million english people - unless they do some serious shagging. Same thing with the Romans - we arn't talking 3 million Romans arriving in the space of 10 years. Maybe a few thousand tops spread out over many decades.