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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

The Benzodiazepine Thread Version 5

Catching Fish:

I've done myself a disfavour by reading the horror stories online of 1 year W/D of short term use. Anyway I need this over and done with cos I had two turn 2 decent job interviews down today cos of what is to come. I know it'll probably suck I just hope it is over sooner rather than later so I can start life as a sober man.
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Stop reading about clonaz WDs. If you're going to cold turkey, than there's not much to do other than get it done. You were using it daily for less than a month if I recall? Or maybe now it's a bit over that? Either way you're not going to experience the effects of a year of daily use, so there's no point in psyching yourself out with horror stories.

CLonaz can be horrible to get off, but that doesn't mean it has to be for you. Really, don't over think it and read about terrible things. Your mind set can play a big part in the experience you get.

Keep us updated.
 
Thanks Halif,

Yes that's very much what I was looking for, confirmation that the doctor was putting us the right course. All correct about the dosage of temaz she was taking, 10mg tablets, no more than 2 a night, no more than 6 weeks. I'm not sure on the valium dosage she's been prescribed, I saw the tablets last night, they're very small, she had two last night because the doc said she could if need be and she was really shaky and anxious, but she's been told 1 should do per night.

She did pick up some kava tablets as well, presumably suggested by the doctor, so it sounds like he knows what he's doing.

We were hoping the rebound from the valium wouldn't be bad, but if we can expect more of the same from that, maybe it's worth just pushing her to drop the lot sooner rather than later.

Thanks again for your feedback.
 
I don't really understand pharmacokinetics, but I believe from reading journals that diazepam (Valium) is a complex, broad spectrum of action drug which breaks down into other major and minor metabolites (other active drugs). One of the things that Valium breaks down into when consumed is temazepam; tempazepam being a minor metabolite of diazepam.

Anyway, what all that means is that taking Valium is still taking temazepam in a sense. To put it even more simply, taking benzos is taking benzos. They all have rebound side effects of varying subjective intensity and quality. None of those side-effects is pleasant.

Valium lasts a long time, even if you can't feel it working it is in your system and eventually it needs to come out.

Simply: there's no way easy out from benzos. It's just a matter of slow and steadily (consistently) dosing at ever decreasing amounts. Try to avoid changing the amount she takes. If she feels shaky, unfortunately that's part of the withdrawal process. Taking more Valium will only delay the same symptoms.

Benzos are so easy to take here and there, and are so obscenely hard to stop taking. They aren't fair drugs. The upside of this is that you and your wife have caught soemthing early on which could have turned your whole lives inside out.

Sorry to bring cold comfort, but from the doses you mentioned and the duration of use, it can only get harder from here* (edited) IF SHE KEEPS DOSING HIGHER to relieve the symptoms caused by the drugs in the first place. Stick to the taper plan as tightly as possible. These things can drag on literally for years, even when the starting amount is very modest and used for legitimate reasons.

Your situation has lots of positives. Doses are low, length of use is not long relatively speaking, benzos taken were not very strong. I don't want to downplay what your wife is going through, but it's important to know that this taper is - in the scheme of things - an easy one provided it done start to finish and then left there.

Really, best of luck with it. There's not much else to say because you're both clued up and are doing just the right thing. Support her because it'll likely be tough at times. but speaking from bitter experience, I wish I were where you're wife is at in terms of tapering. It's hard and long and slow to get off benzos, but it doesn't get easier, only harder. Do it now and get on with your lives and don't look back.

Best wishes.
 
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The main differences between alprazolam and clonazepam are: _____?

I have never tried clonazepam, but I may have found someone willing to part with some. Is clonaz any more or less "euphoric", for lack of a better word than alpraz, and I guess another question would be is it likely to induce the same amount of memory loss and lack of rational thought which turns into uncontrolled forum posting that alprazolam has been known to do for some posters on this forum. Namely, me.
 
Onset and duration are the main differences.

Clonaz taking a while to take hold, and a while to eliminate from the body.

To the right dose I would say it could cause as much of a blackout, compared with alprazolam. It just might happen a bit later in the day ;).
 
From what I've read the effects of clonaz are extremely subjective. Some people rate it as their favourite benzo, some don't care for it all.

I think it is more comparable to diaz than alpraz, but probably even less fun that straight diaz. Much more potent though obviously. On the plus side it had much less effect on memory than any other benzo I have tried.
 
Posting for the first time...
I take mirtazapine, seroquel xr and venlafaxine (efexor) daily for medicinal reasons.
However my doctor also gives me oxycontin , diazepam, temazepam and zolpidem tartrate (stilnox).
(I dont smoke anything or drink alcohol or take 'street' or hard drugs.)
So for the last week I have been taking one oxycontin in the morning then a few diazepam or temaz. and then an energy drink then a stilnox ...
I had one bad time when I took an oxycontin and stilnox together and was as sick as a dog.
So I dont really know what im doing but I am thinking of adding some ritalin or adderall to the mix. Is this a good idea ? I need to figure out the best way to ask my doctor to prescribe me some. (Is it ok to say that here ?)
I used to party in the acid house days and want to replicate what I felt like then safely and legally. I dont know much about ritalin and the rules and lowdown here in Australia. So any advice about it anyone ?
 
Hey sstv! How you doing?

Since you asked whether it's a good idea or not: No, I don't think adding Ritalin is a good idea.

Reason being that you are on a fairly heavy regiment of medications which will interfere with the effects of Ritalin, or any other drug for that matter. I read your post line by line (strangely enough!! I usually read letter by letter8( ) and my first thought was "holy fondue, that's quite the line up of prescription meds!!". Two anti-depressants of different classes and an anti-psychotic. Then I saw your doctor is throwing shit around like candy with the oxy, Stilnox, and benzos.

So, that's A LOT OF DOWNERS. To replicate MDMA (I assume that's what you mean.. I mean acid house days and all) it would be very hard to break through the huge concrete wall of medications you're on.

I don't blame you for wanting to feel something special. I find it bad enough just taking an SSRI and benzos daily. What I mean by that is; the effects of stimulants, psychedelics, and dissociatives are all diminished. Because that's what benzos, some anti-depressants, and especially anti-psychotics do. The seroquel itself would be hard to get past.

My concern is that you would try to get high and find it unsatisfying. To overcome the blocks in place, you'd likely end up taking massive amounts and it could be very very dangerous. Personally, I think the combination of scripted medications you're on sounds a bit redundant and/or excessive. but I don't know your circumstances.

Do you mind me asking how you came to be on all those medications? And for how long you've been on them?

I suspect that you're emotions are blunted a lot by those meds, and what you're craving is to feel something again. I'd suggest talking to your doctor - or possibly a new doctor - about seeing if it is appropriate and safe to come off some/any of those meds. That alone would get you some feeling back. Please don't do anything without the doctors advice - preferably get the opinion of a second doctor as well. As I said, I don't know your background.

Stay safe and good luck.
 
I was given 100mg of Diazepam today and had already had About 300mg of methadone (holy shit! I didn't realize it was quite that much!) I'm very, very tolerant to opiates and benzos so don't be silly and take my doses. And believe me it's a huge pain. I don't feel any drugs except pot, meth/coke and MDxx
and sometimes a ton of methadone but this time it's barely worked. (Don't go on about "your on methadone you shouldn't be getting high". I get rare urges which are usually not full filled so I feel once every few weeks is OK. I just don't want to use daily or ever weekly!

While I'm not trying to get high per se but to get a temporary break from my insanely active mind. And that's a great thing but there is a time to chill out. And I feel great. But I can't understand why opiate tolerance goes away within weeks but benzos and methamphetamine to an extent, both take really long times for tolerance to go down. Since the apraxia habit my tolerance is a mess.... 80mg of Diazepam. What a shame.
 
Well ive been on this drug regime for about three years.
Before that I had a very painful medical condition which caused me to have infected nerves in my face.
Unfortunately I was misdiagnosed for a few years and had three surgeries which caused me to spend alot of time on antibiotics and codeine, unable to sleep I took to stilnox which I used every night for two years....when they stopped working I could no longer sleep for more than a few hours a night, had a few bad od's mixing medications eventually started having psychotic episodes.
I did have one piece of luck, I was put in touch with a facial maxillary surgeon who diagnosed me correctly and peformed two surgeries on my face
Unfortunately the surgery was very invasive and had a very long and painful recovery period.
I was in London, alone from family and unable to work still in pain unable to sleep and severely depressed so I took an overdose, luckily I snapped out of it long enough to call an ambulance before I stopped breathing. I was kept in hospital to be admitted to the psych ward.
My brother came from Australia to get me ,
On arrival in Australia I was sent to hospital and was diagnosed with severe clinical depression, Psychosis with delusion and catatonia. I was sectioned to a psychiatric unit through St Vincent hospital where I spent a year.
The anti d's and psch are administrated through my psychiatrist , the other drugs are prescribed from my doctor.
Of course the psch and dep pills are quite strong ...if I even miss a days dose of any pill I get a strong reaction ( if I miss the seroquol then take oxycontin and temezapan the next day I will rush all day like having a day after of a very strong eccy but it will screw me up for a few days mentally)
I have been quite responsible with using all the "candy" drugs.
As a result my doctor gives me all I ask for
But as you say I am tired of being flat ( no alcohol hash etc anymore ) and want to feel special ( like how you put that )
I am beginning to start tapering off the psych drugs starting with the serequol down to 600. And I have been feeling stable for over six months now so I am feeling I am due a bit of a drug holiday that is why I want to have a bit of a stimulant to go with the downers...but I dont want anything too heavy.
(I dont use very often so my tolerance is good and im very careful with the oxycontin)
Thank you for reading and replying to my post.
 
sstv: thank you for that detailed reply. I had a feeling there would be a serious backstory to your medications and I'm glad you shared that info. I hope you didn't get the impression that I was making a judgement or suggesting that you were being irresponsible by taking a lot of meds. I just know of a few cases where doctors have been over-prescribing meds to people and it's got them (the patients) into trouble. I can see, however, that in your case there are good reasons for the things being prescribed.

The issue is the same, though. It's a tough balance between taking the drugs that benefit you without losing aspects of your total self and feeling like somethings missing. I hate feeling numb. Some medications block the tide of emotions, but you can still feel them all there churning away in your mind.

I don't blame you for wanting a "drug holiday". Man, I know that feeling!

Tapering from the seroquel is probably the biggest thing you can do to get some sensitivity back, and having been stable for six months is a great place to be in. I think the best thing you could do if possible, is perhaps plan a "holiday" but wait longer and see how you do with cutting back the seroquel. Like you said, take that out of the picture and you're way more receptive to drugs. But take it out suddenly and add drugs in and it can go very wrong, very fast.

I think it would boost your confidence and mental fortitude to taper further on the seroquel if it feels right and if the doctor is in agreement that it's a good idea. Even lowering the seroquel should bring back some of your natural ability to experience and enjoy life.

Step by step, yeah? Take care.
 
Gee, I see how benzo use gets outta hand. Was taking 1-2 of both etizolam and Diclazepam a day, now its 4 of each every dose, upto 16 a day. Taking a complete break for a while.
Man the benzo munching creeps up on you.
 
Yes that's a lot to be taking daily. And yeah it sure does creep up on you!

Good idea to take a break, but how long have you been using them? And do you have any left? It would be ideal if you had a few left, because depending on how long you've been taking the high doses for you may experience rebound anxiety or insomnia. Diclazepam in particular has a long half life, so the rebound effects can creep up on you just like the habit did. For a day or two you may feel nothing much unusual and then suddenly you can't sleep at all.

Really depends on individual body chemistry and the length for which you've been using them, though. Don't be put off taking a break! It's good that you've realised the fact that it's getting out of hand.
 
while this post isnt specifically only about benzos, valium in my case. i was wondering if any other fellow bluelight pain patients who use diazepam as a muscle relaxant also use baclofem im conjumction with baclofen? or either alone?

if you can describe your injury that would be great for an (albeit pretty shitty) rough comparison/reference point with the injuries i suffer. ive a pars defects in my lumbar spine region (L5-S1) with lower grade sclerosis on both facet joints as well as needing a full knee replacement (im only in my late 20's, woohoo right?), not an arthoscopy, a brand spankin' new knee altogether! sounds nice, huh?

on days i will use in conjunction, most other days just the diazepam alone. i tend to only use the baclofen when my knee is really giving me some damn curry. im already on 4 different opioids (mscontin, oxynorm, er tramadol and the pure 30mg codeine tablets, as NSAIDS wreak havoc all too often on my stomach) so the less i can get away with the better in my view. especially after near a decade of being on narcotics.

life is grand but, not so much when youre relying on having to start the day off with a great big handful of narcotics, waiting around for them to take effect so im mobile enough where i can go and get on with my day.

cheers everyone/
 
Halif said:
Yes that's a lot to be taking daily. And yeah it sure does creep up on you!

Good idea to take a break, but how long have you been using them? And do you have any left? It would be ideal if you had a few left, because depending on how long you've been taking the high doses for you may experience rebound anxiety or insomnia. Diclazepam in particular has a long half life, so the rebound effects can creep up on you just like the habit did. For a day or two you may feel nothing much unusual and then suddenly you can't sleep at all.

Really depends on individual body chemistry and the length for which you've been using them, though. Don't be put off taking a break! It's good that you've realised the fact that it's getting out of hand.
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Been on them about a month, gonna do some mxp tonight, should keep me happy for a couple days while taking a break, that stuff has a real anti-deppresent effect for days.
Also I have about 150 left all up of diclaz and etiz, so a small break for tolerance than only self medicate when works gonna be hectic is the plan.
Thanks for the advice mate.
 
Ok, agreed I will wait while I get taken off the seroquel before I let it rip.
The medications I am prescribed do
affect me adversly.
I am a complete zombie in the mornings.
Luckily I am on full disability support from the government and am able to not work...
Thats why I was thinking of ritalin as well so
I could work a few days of the week.
I could do with some extra energy, I am just sick and tired of feeling sick and tired...some of the side effects of being on the anti d's and anti psyc's for such a long time are tedious
But thank you for being the voice of reason
l will not jeopardize my tapering for the moment ,
Hopefully in a few months I will be on a single simple anti deppressant and I will have a party then.
So I will stick to the odd oxycontin and diazepam but not source out a stimulant :(
 
Sorry auto - spell stuffed my post.

How long does it take for benzo tolerance to dissipate? I have taken breaks for a year at a time and my tolerance barely reduced at all! If I'm using .3 of heroin, stop for 2 weeks then do .3 I'd OD and die! Meth isn't as bad but it also takes a few months before tolerance changes.

Yesterday 80mg of valium only just helped. I'm scared that one day I'll have a ridiculous panic attack and not be able to use benzos unless i have a box of valium :( . It's truely a worry and makes me think heroin is the only option due to the difficulty in getting benzos now that the doctors have stopped prescribing benzos to most people :/ . Writing that makes my heart sink. I almost wish I didn't know about benzos so I didn't know that the IS a temporary fix but I do know about them yet I can't have them. It's like knowing there's a billion dollars locked in an impenetrable box :/
 
the_ketaman said:
Sorry auto - spell stuffed my post.

How long does it take for benzo tolerance to dissipate? I have taken breaks for a year at a time and my tolerance barely reduced at all! If I'm using .3 of heroin, stop for 2 weeks then do .3 I'd OD and die! Meth isn't as bad but it also takes a few months before tolerance changes.

Yesterday 80mg of valium only just helped. I'm scared that one day I'll have a ridiculous panic attack and not be able to use benzos unless i have a box of valium :( . It's truely a worry and makes me think heroin is the only option due to the difficulty in getting benzos now that the doctors have stopped prescribing benzos to most people :/ . Writing that makes my heart sink. I almost wish I didn't know about benzos so I didn't know that the IS a temporary fix but I do know about them yet I can't have them. It's like knowing there's a billion dollars locked in an impenetrable box :/
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Hi

In my opinion benzo tolerance never goes.

I was taking valium a few times a week for several years on prescription.
My doc said not to take daily to avoid addiction. One day, I stopped taking the valium, and two and a half weeks later withdrawal symptoms hit. I was off them for five weeks and reinstated them.

I had a hard time convincing my doctor I was now physically dependent on valium.
The only reason my doctor agreed to prescribe valium was because I had enlisted the help of local drug services and one of the workers spoke to her. He told me he mainly dealt with heroin users and didn't know about valium withdrawals or benzo issues.
Still, he was a drug-worker with a well known local drug service, so she agreed to prescribe.

Then, as my symptoms wouldn't go, I was of the belief that I needed more. Luckily, my psychiatris agreed to give me double dose to put me in a better place to taper, but it did nothing to stop my withdrawals.
I've not taken valium since I got off them, but I dare say that if I took one, it would no naff all.
EDITED - realised this is the Aussie forum and I'm a brit.

I think you are in a really good position to start a taper. The charity, however, also support people who are not yet ready to taper.
Your body will soon start 'asking for more' if you continue taking it, which is why I think you are in a good position to taper, because 80mg is still holding you and you can taper off that with no symptoms if you cut your dose daily, using a micro amount.
You could be off in a year, or shortly after, and in that year, you wont have any symptoms provided you take the same dose each day and never increase it.
Valium can be liquified in whole homogenized milk to achieve accurate cuts.

I tapered the hard way with fortnightly cuts of 5-10%, until I got to 3.5mgs and when I started tapering daily, the symptoms that I got from the bad taper got less and less each day till I was able to get to 0mg feeling fine and dandy.
 
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mindseye888 said:
Been on them about a month, gonna do some mxp tonight, should keep me happy for a couple days while taking a break, that stuff has a real anti-deppresent effect for days.
Also I have about 150 left all up of diclaz and etiz, so a small break for tolerance than only self medicate when works gonna be hectic is the plan.
Thanks for the advice mate.
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I hope you don't mind me saying, and I have had a benzo habit in the past, but if you take benzos daily, the same dose should be taken each day.
This is because, erratic use, with differing length gaps in between useage, just confuses the GABA and can make for evil withdrawals.
I always feel I have to warn people of this because when I had withdrawals the head fuck was so bad, I wanted to die or go in a coma till it finished, and I also heard quie a few other people describe their withdrawal experience.
I would hate for others to go through it.
 
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