The Benzodiazepine Thread Version 5

[the_ketaman]

And id like to genuinely apologise for glorifying drug use in this thread and others. When im so out of it I often forget this forum is based on harm reduction and just start casually posting about using amounts that would kill an elephant. I recently went through $80 000 on drugs mostly and was in a cycle that went from heavy heroin/benzo use which ended in me OD'ing very badly and my own mother gave me CPR and saved my life(I still get shakey, feel sick and feel an incredible amount of guilt for putting the both of us through that and wasting taxpayers money and taking time away from emergency personnel when they should be out helping people who havent done ridiculously dumb things to themselves) and the cycle moved on to heavy methamphetamine use with benzos to come down with and repeated as soon as possible. While im on the meth I have no anxiety or negativity in my head but the comedown is just so debilitating yet I continue to use. I used yesterday. Im fucking sick!

I often wonder why ive been given the chance to live after doing so much wrong. One of my best friends died and I was the idiot who showed him how to IV thinking that he'd do it anyway so better show him properly(I now regret that so much) admittedly he'd been addicted for awhile and the cocktail he died on was a death wish. I honestly feel like a piece of shit because I have glorified drugs on and offline which is incredibly selfish.

Im making myself feel horrible but im sure I deserve it. I feel like a murderer. A thief that steals lives, happiness and turns people into drug addicts and in a sick way I think its coz I want someone to share the pain with. How fucked up is that? Well I have no friends to ruin anymore anyway which im greatful for as I just had a realization that I am not a healthy person to be around. Im rambling but I just wanted to apologise because I whinge about my own problems so often but I think ive fucked so many other people up in various ways that my own problems that have been caused by myself as well, are nothing compared to the people that have been negatively impacted by my selfishness. I almost feel like I should flush the valium and be a man and deal with what ive done to myself.

Fuck shut up, I used to be so shy but now I think the reason im a loner is coz I talk so much CRAP!

 

[mindseye888]

I feel for you ketman, I'm the kind of person that is really in touch with my body and my brain just says STOP when bingeing gets hectic, I get dizzy when I don't eat properly and frustrated when my mind becomes a blur from overindulging in substances. No joke its like my brain won't let me chop up a few lines or down a few pills or whatever else, kinda got a natural auto pilot, I just completely lack that addictive personality, although compared to normal people's I have a crazy polydrug habit.
I thank the stars for my dislike of needles too, I have to lay down when I get bloodtests because even when I turn my head the other way and dont look I break out in cold sweats and get super lightheaded/dizzy.
Again I feel for ya ketman, I've known many people who, for want of a better word, are hopeless at handling drugs in the longrun, stay safe man.

 

[catching fish]

its rarely scripted, its for very rare cases. 2mg is rare, the orange 0.5mg are alot more common . and yeah, there is no 1mg tablets. 0.5 or 2mg only.

i can also say 100% that they are only available in quantities of 100. like i said, its for rare cases, i think its epilepsy its mostly used for.

Well I must be an exception to the rule because I picked up 100 x 2 mg for anxiety. Told him valium wasn't cutting it. To be fair he has been my doctor since the day I was born.

This leads me to my next question. I've been using benzos for the past 21 days straight. Anywhere from 5mg of diaz to 6mg of clonaz.

My common dose was roughly 2mg of clonaz.

I had a terrible life experience which brought this on which I don't want to go into. But basically what I'm trying to say is that I plan on stopping tomorrow completely, both to avoid dependence, tolerance, conserve the pills for when I really need them and because I need to make some important life moves in the next few weeks and as hard as it will be I do not want this so be my crutch.

Is stopping CT going to give me any grief? I know the general pharmacist line is 'consult a doctor before stopping use of one month of more' but whatever's clever nigga. I've had similar binges but with benzos of considerably less potency and have generally been dependent on other substances (opiates) so I can't fully appreciate the negative effects. I'm clean now and in a bit of a fragile mental state so I'm mainly worried about the rebound anxiety.

Would love to hear anyone's opinions.

PS - I know I'm on a slippery slope which will descend to a dark place so I'm looking to get in on it now.

 

[Halif]

Would love to hear anyone's opinions.

Just quickly: from what you're describing, the bit that concerns me is the clonazepam. 21 days isn't a long time, but that shit is much much stronger than diazepam and that kind of binge use where you jump around from 2mg to 6mg can fuck you up later.

You've still got some long acting benzos left? Good. THen you don't need to panic over it. But just be prepared and warned that clonaz cold turkey can leave you with in a very nasty headspace. Again, average of 2mg a day for less than a month isn't too bad, but still everyone's different. A quick taper of the clonaz might be safer.

I'm particularly sensitive to the powerful anticonvulsant action of benzos, and even two weeks of daily clonaz has a rebound for me which is more than anxiety - more like depersonalisation and kind of supreme state of confusion, like tripping hard.

Keep us updated.

 

[catching fish]

For fucks sake.

I was hoping you benzo experts would give me a quick slap on the bum and send me off like a newborn child. Oh well, I dug my own grave - albeit underestimating the negatives this binge would carry. I'm supposed to be an adult so I guess I should probably take responsibility for my actions (bullshit).

I'm particularly sensitive to the powerful anticonvulsant action of benzos, and even two weeks of daily clonaz has a rebound for me which is more than anxiety - more like depersonalisation and kind of supreme state of confusion, like tripping hard.

Sounds like me on most days. Any idea how long these feelings would last for and what would you suggest for a quick taper?

Life without opiates does have some significant drawbacks - like having to deal with this stuff sober.

Cheers Halif as usual. Will keep you updated and hope to hear more from you on the topic mate & hope you are doing okay in general. I hope the fact that I've never had a proper benzo habit will work in my favour rather than against it.

 

[Halif]

Life without opiates does have some significant drawbacks - like having to deal with this stuff sober.

That's life. Don't forget, you'd still be dealing with PAWS - if I remember correctly your using habits. You went pretty hard for a while, right? It takes months to get back to a balanced state.

And don't let me freak you out about the clonaz. I thought about that when writing the post, and the last thing I want to do is put you in a bad state of mind. I think THIS:

I hope the fact that I've never had a proper benzo habit will work in my favour rather than against it.

-is what you should focus on. You're damn straight it'll work in your favour. Do you know how ridiculously hard it gets after a couple of years of stupid, irresponsible benzo use? It only gets harder and harder and it (the tapering, the withdrawals) fucking drags on forever.

You will NOT have a hard time like that. You MIGHT have a few days of feeling off-centre, but you said you got some benzos left? Well, that'll help. Just knowing they're there has a massive psychological impact. The knowledge that you can ease it up if it's getting too much.

Shit, even if you didn't have any, I'd wager that you'll be fine. It's a modest binge, and you don't have months or years of prior use.

You'll be alright, and don't lose sight of the fact you feel fragile: Because you're not taking the easy way out and numbing yourself. You're putting in the hard yards now to get a better quality of life. And everyone has to give up their crutches at some point. if you're fucked up enough to get put into hospital then you aren't gonna get everything you need just cause you got a habit outside. I seen that happen to people and it's not pretty. Detox in hospital... better than jail, but...

Keep it up, Fishy. I think the fact you're making this decision to stop daily benzo use and keep what you got for when you need it just shows that you're thinking straight and making solid choices. More power to you.

 

[spacejunk]

^ Are you looking for solid HR advice, experience and compassion?
Benzo binge starting to freak you out? Not sure whether to go cold turkey or taper?
Complications from some weird research chemical? Pharmacist starting to ask too many questions?

Come down to Bluelight and talk to our resident Empathy Guru Halif, for all of your Harm Minimisation needs.

What he hasn't experienced, he can relate to - and anything he can't relate to; you're probably in the wrong forum, fella.​

Seriously though - you're a fucking good man Halif. Your posts are always consitent, thoughtful and demonstrate that you clearly give a shit. And you read what other people write!

You post like a man with complete composure and balance, yet I know how turbulent life can be sometimes.
It's not that you hide what's going on; you share with us some of the trials and tribulations you experience - things that would instil bitterness in other people that would shine through into their contributions.
Your posts are like a really good record that doesn't have a single dud track.
You offer such great advice and words of encouragement - i dig your style man.





PS I owe you a PM. I keep procrastinating about writing it; sorry.

 

[Halif]

Awww, shit. Thanks dude

I could've written the same about yourself.

 

[opi8]

^ Are you looking for solid HR advice, experience and compassion?
Benzo binge starting to freak you out? Not sure whether to go cold turkey or taper?
Complications from some weird research chemical? Pharmacist starting to ask too many questions?

Come down to Bluelight and talk to our resident Empathy Guru Halif, for all of your Harm Minimisation needs.

What he hasn't experienced, he can relate to - and anything he can't relate to; you're probably in the wrong forum, fella.​

Right on, bro

 

[catching fish]

Just did the world's quickest "taper". 6 mg clonaz Monday, 1 mg Tuesday, Wednesday and today I have been abstinent. I contacted Guinness to see if I could be included in their next edition but they weren't having a bar of it (no pun intended).

In all seriousness I feel like shit going cold turkey. Nothing like one would experience from long term withdrawals, but just totally depressed, anxious, flat, no energy, and much more depersonalisation than normal. I also started Zoloft 50mg on Tuesday so maybe that is contributing to it. I hope this fucks off soon. I really hope it doesn't get worse. I'm still not over opiate PAWS cause I had another run at it ending like 10 days ago. I was dealing fine without opiates while I had the clonaz but without both I feel proper ratshit.

Just an update/feeling sorry for myself. How is everyone else doing?

 

[Halif]

I contacted Guinness to see if I could be included in their next edition but they weren't having a bar of it (no pun intended).

Hahhahaha! You're a legend!

I also started Zoloft 50mg on Tuesday so maybe that is contributing to it.

Hell no. I know this is a highly personal and controversial topic of discussion, but Zoloft (sertraline) is the only SSRI - hell, the only antidepressant out of the five or six I've tried - that worked for me. I'll always come out to bat for sertraline because I've tried a bunch of AD meds, and sertraline at 50mg was the single most effective of them all for me. It gave me nearly a YEAR long window of opportunity to cut down, to actually get off opiates, to start working out again, and doing all this shit that I'd not done for a while.

Just my opinion, but I really think sertraline is a good medication for depression AND low-level social anxiety. Its side-effects are not as bad as other meds, and it is a generally benign anti-depressant. That's my experience and my opinion. Take it or leave it.

To be honest, Zoloft is the only anti-depressant med that I miss. There actually were some golden times there because I got it just at the right moment, when I was really fighting to better myself. That's the key, obviously.You don't sit back and wait to feel happy. No going to happen.

But if you've just kicked bad habits and are feeling shit, and you've been doing mostly the right things (eating half-decent food, getting some exercise, WANTING to get better) then sertraline can come in and just give you that nudge that tips the balance over and VOILA! You start feeling returns for the hard work. You start feeling good about doing things. That makes you do MORE THINGS! Aaaannnnndddd you're off!

Run with it!

I mean, swim with it, Fishy. I got infinite time for you, buddy. PM me anytime.

 

[catching fish]

Yo it is me again. Benzo use started again friday and has been about the same 2-6 mg. I've got too much shit on until Monday so I want to jump off then. Monday will make it a month.

Options:
-jump off cold turkey and run the gauntlet
-do a fast taper (I don't know how I would do it)

I'd rather get it over with. Can anyone have a rough shot at guessing how long I would be feeling shit for after a month's heavy use if I jumped of cold turkey? It is just that I have fuck all on that week so it would be a good time.

 

[BlueIV]

I was given lorazepam to help me deal with IV anxiety. I was told to try it out ahead of time. Should I feel something? The 0.5mg dissolved about 20 min ago and I feel nothing. The pharmacist really insisted I shouldn't drive so I was expecting to feel something. I was told I could take 2. I've felt more relaxed on prescriptions that weren't prescribed for anxiety.

 

[spacejunk]

^ benzos can be deceptively subtle. Be wary of thinking they're not affecting you when they most likely are.
They don't zonk you out like antihistamines, except in higher doses... Even then people often have trouble distinguishing their effects from sobriety IME

 

[Halif]

people often have trouble distinguishing their effects from sobriety IME

This is precisely what makes them extremely dangerous and insidious. You ever seen someone drunk as shit, stumbling, slurring words and such, all the while saying "I'm fine, I'm fine, fuck off and give me my keys"?

Benzos are, IME, much more under the radar than that even. I've been intoxicated enough times and in enough ways (with and without drugs) to know when something's NQR, but benzos can still 'trick' me.

First time I tried lorazepam was not all that long ago. It was the 11th or 12th benzo I've tried. I didn't think too much about 2mg (I have a dependence AND tolerance), but I hit the curb when I turned my car around for the five minute drive home. All this registered in my head: My reflexes are off. I just took lorazepam. I've been driving for over 15 years and never had an accident. I take driving very seriously...

You know what I did when I jumped up on that curb? Said: "oh", and kept driving.

Rationality and self-awareness go bye-bye on benzos real fast.

"I feel nothing" isn't an indicator of a benzo working. "I DON'T feel anxious" is the one to look out for. Be safe.

 

[Captain Brewster]

I was given lorazepam to help me deal with IV anxiety. I was told to try it out ahead of time. Should I feel something? The 0.5mg dissolved about 20 min ago and I feel nothing. The pharmacist really insisted I shouldn't drive so I was expecting to feel something. I was told I could take 2. I've felt more relaxed on prescriptions that weren't prescribed for anxiety.

.5mg was enough to rid me of constant anxiety.

 

[catching fish]

yo so back to more pressing issues of 6 mg clonazepam per day.

I'll start cold turkey on Monday. I've done myself a disfavour by reading the horror stories online of 1 year W/D of short term use. Anyway I need this over and done with cos I had two turn 2 decent job interviews down today cos of what is to come. I know it'll probably suck I just hope it is over sooner rather than later so I can start life as a sober man. Not quite sober but you know the go. No opiates, no benzos. No banging anything.

This plane is landing with no wheels. It is also landing in the middle of the ocean so disregard the wheel metaphor for now.

 

[BlueIV]

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll just have to give one a try and hope it doesn't cause me to miss! At least I got a good sleep last night, not sure if it was the pill or not.

 

[TDSnet]

Hi,

I'm posting on behalf of my wife as we are both looking for some advice. She was / is having symptoms of insomnia (weeks without sleep) and was prescribed Tempazepam. She was taking it every night (10 - 20 mg) for about 6 weeks, but started to skip nights here and there because she wanted to stop using it.

She started experiencing withdrawal symptoms like severe anxiety and panic attacks to the point where she can barely function at home, let alone in public, which is a real problem because we have small children and I need to be at work.

The latest from the doctor (yesterday) is to stop the Tamaze, and instead use Valium. Then, once the anxiety and other withdrawal symptoms stop, start weaning off the Valium because it's much gentler and easier to get off.

She wants to be off everything because she's decided now she'd rather not sleep than have to deal with all the crap that has come with taking medication, so I just want to know what people's thoughts are about the Valium and whether there are any better alternatives. My guess is, for what it's worth, based on this experience and some other times using recreational drugs, that she has a fairly low tolerance.

Thanks for any and all help / advice.

 

[Halif]

Hi TDSnet,

Sounds like a fairly open and closed case. Was there something you were wondering about specifically? Or just wanted to know if that was a good move on the part of your doctor?

All I'd ask you is: What dose of valium was she prescribed? And what was the taper regime suggested?

The idea is good. Valium lasts longer than temazepam. However, temazepam is at the bottom end of potency for benzos - at least when taken at therapeutic doses such as those you mentioned. Temaz is 10mg per pill, isn't it? So she never took more than two at any given time? And she took that amount for no more than six weeks?

In that case, she's fairly sensitive to benzodiazepines, in my opinion. To put it another way, she might be prone to anxiety in the first place and thus is having a strong rebound effect from the temaz. It's very important that she does her taper with the valium, and then perhaps tries something herbal like Kava. But she needs to nip this in the bud because it can get extremely difficult to get off benzos. Valium lasts a long time, so the rebound anxiety from that can also last a long time. Make sure she - and you - are prepared for rebound effects when she finishes it and know that the longer she puts off stopping altogether, the longer the self-perpetuating cycle will continue.

Good luck and all the best.