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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

What do you think of the needle?

i usewd needles for over 20 years till after 18 months of speedballing nd shooting coke i fucked all my veins- that was 10 yers ago and no veins have come back - so i think thats a myth (that they do)
 
Yeah I certainly have not noticed that any of my veins have 'come back' but friends of mine swear that some of theirs did but I can't say if they did or not.
 
No, I've not had any real return of veins. I found that each time I damaged a set of veins to the point they became unusable I'd get "new veins" a few months later but they'd be smaller and less robust than what was there before. I do believe veins will branch out and take new courses when damaged sometimes so presume it was that. Alternatively smaller veins have to do more work when larger ones are so damaged they have reduced function so kinda makes sense they'd become more prominent. Perhaps a bit of both. I do know that finding veins got exponentially harder when I got into shooting snowballs regularly. Coke is horrible for veins. The rush is divine but it really does take its toll in doublequick time :\
 
What do folk mean when they say they have damaged/bad veins, or don't have any veins left? Are they ever being damaged enough to stop blood flow or do they just become too hard to inject into cos of scarring or?
 
Uncle Robert said:
What do folk mean when they say they have damaged/bad veins, or don't have any veins left? Are they ever being damaged enough to stop blood flow or do they just become too hard to inject into cos of scarring or?
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All of those things can and do happen. Collapsed veins are the worst - they won't be repaired at all and lose function afaik. Certainly very reduced function at best. Sometimes the body can generate veins to bypass the area or otherwise will put more pressure on existing, smaller veins which ain't so great but better than losing limbs. You'd have to work hard to do enough damage to actually risk losing a limb but it's certainly doable - clots would be a particular risk in that area and they can be caused through damage done from injecting. When you inject repeatedly scar tissue builds up and pieces can break off blocking veins and causing all kindsa problems.

Build up of scar tissue can also make veins essentially unusable for injecting. That's what most of mine are like - especially the crooks of elbows. The veins are still there but covered with thick internal scar tissue that's excruciatingly painful to poke needles into. I'm sure a skilled phlebotamist could access those veins but not with me conscious they couldn't as even fairly gentle external pressure (pressing on the area with a finger) causes intense pain and involuntary jerk of arm to get it out the way cos it really frikkin hurts. Poking at it with sharp things is unthinkable and impossible to bear - no matter how desperate I've been I've never been able to go near those sites again.

I also have an area about an inch round now on one of my elbows where the site got infected during an extended (as in several weeks/couple months several times daily) IV stim binge. The flesh actually rotted away in an area about the size of a £2 coin and deep enough to see the bone inside. Could also see veins in amongst the mush and I was so caught up in binging that I was almost pleased cos they were so easy to access. It was the kinda stuff that makes anything Hollywood presents of drug addiction look quite tame. It's not something I'm proud of and I'm frankly amazed I got away with a relatively small scar rather than a life-threatening infection. Especially as I never sought any treatment cos that would've meant taking time out from binging.

When addiction meets needle fetishism there's real potential for doing things you could never imagine yourself - or even anybody else - doing. The most shocking behaviours become strangely justifiable to you. Why wouldn't I inject into exposed veins in a rotting pit in my elbow? They're so easy to hit. Surely a blessing in disguise, no?
 
I've only ever used 1ml rigs and that's all I ever will use (he says), but it's frightening to see how the fetish overtakes you. I've not injected anything since November, yet I'm still finding used rigs in my room, and I was very much one of the 'I will never shoot up' crew for my first ten years of using heroin on and off.

Can't really add much to what's already been posted, but while I'm sure that some people can keep a lid on needle use, other's can't. I'm with the others.

I've ended up using chunks of those soluble vitamin C tablets to acidify my gear in the past, despite the fact that I know that shooting them is doubly stupid and dangerous. I had foil to hand, but at the time nothing but a spike would do.

Yeah. 8)
 
Shambles said:
All of those things can and do happen. Collapsed veins are the worst - they won't be repaired at all and lose function afaik. Certainly very reduced function at best. Sometimes the body can generate veins to bypass the area or otherwise will put more pressure on existing, smaller veins which ain't so great but better than losing limbs. You'd have to work hard to do enough damage to actually risk losing a limb but it's certainly doable - clots would be a particular risk in that area and they can be caused through damage done from injecting. When you inject repeatedly scar tissue builds up and pieces can break off blocking veins and causing all kindsa problems.

Build up of scar tissue can also make veins essentially unusable for injecting. That's what most of mine are like - especially the crooks of elbows. The veins are still there but covered with thick internal scar tissue that's excruciatingly painful to poke needles into. I'm sure a skilled phlebotamist could access those veins but not with me conscious they couldn't as even fairly gentle external pressure (pressing on the area with a finger) causes intense pain and involuntary jerk of arm to get it out the way cos it really frikkin hurts. Poking at it with sharp things is unthinkable and impossible to bear - no matter how desperate I've been I've never been able to go near those sites again.

I also have an area about an inch round now on one of my elbows where the site got infected during an extended (as in several weeks/couple months several times daily) IV stim binge. The flesh actually rotted away in an area about the size of a £2 coin and deep enough to see the bone inside. Could also see veins in amongst the mush and I was so caught up in binging that I was almost pleased cos they were so easy to access. It was the kinda stuff that makes anything Hollywood presents of drug addiction look quite tame. It's not something I'm proud of and I'm frankly amazed I got away with a relatively small scar rather than a life-threatening infection. Especially as I never sought any treatment cos that would've meant taking time out from binging.

When addiction meets needle fetishism there's real potential for doing things you could never imagine yourself - or even anybody else - doing. The most shocking behaviours become strangely justifiable to you. Why wouldn't I inject into exposed veins in a rotting pit in my elbow? They're so easy to hit. Surely a blessing in disguise, no?
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Holy poo. What did you end up doing, stick a plaster on it and leave it be?
 
Plasters don't come in big enough sizes for holes of that size. Don't think a plaster would've really cut it. It absolutely should've had medical attention but I really was in uberfiend mode so... :\

I washed it out regularly with cold water and removed extraneous gunk and pus where required. This is why I'm amazed I didn't go on to develop a really serious infection cos it got minimal attention. I mention it - and my ridiculously lackadaisical attitude towards it - as demonstration of how far removed from reality and common sense a person can become when caught up in addictions combined with needle fetishism. Nobody expects to ever find themselves behaving like that but I can assure y'all I'm not alone in doing such things. I've known and seen people doing even worse...
 
Out of curiosity, why is shooting in the neck and groin so much more dangerous than other sites? I mean, if you had no qualms in injecting veins you saw in a rotten hole but still managed never to break your self-imposed 'no neck, no groin' rule, just how bad is it going for those sites?

I guess (and it is really just a guess) the groin is a tricky issue due to how deep the femoral vein is and how close it is to the artery (some big nerves are kicking about there also I believe), but just curious about the neck. Same issue with an artery perhaps?
 
I've had the worst needle phobia going for as long as I can remember. I even avoided seeing a doctor for 7 years running when I was in my 20s because I was convinced they'd know my tetanus booster was overdue and make me have it on the spot (still ought to sort that one out actually). Up until October 2012, the last time a needle passed through my skin was my tb shot when I was at school (which was a traumatic experience of panic attacks and passing out in front of my friends).

Things are a bit better since I had an emergency colectomy in 2012, where I had no choice but to deal with multiple cannulas, two arterial lines and a picc line inserted in my arm and threaded through to my chest to feed me, not to mention the daily blood tests during my 7 week stay in hospital.

Exposure therapy works pretty well though, and I can now handle an injection or a blood test if I'm lying down, look away, and engage in some friendly banter with the phlebotomist. I've only had 2 cannulas so far this year (one for each stay in hospital) and although I passed out for the first one, I somehow managed to hold it together for the second. Perhaps something to do with the fact that the first was put in by the junior doctor in A&E who took 3 attempts as he worked his way up my arm, and even fudged the last one, giving me a nice bit of phlebitis (apparently a real thing) meaning I couldn't bend my arm for about a month after. The one a couple of weeks ago was put in by a much more experienced doc who did it with no trouble at all in about 30 seconds.

Still don't think I could inject myself with something though.
 
Chemical Samile said:
Out of curiosity, why is shooting in the neck and groin so much more dangerous than other sites? I mean, if you had no qualms in injecting veins you saw in a rotten hole but still managed never to break your self-imposed 'no neck, no groin' rule, just how bad is it going for those sites?

I guess (and it is really just a guess) the groin is a tricky issue due to how deep the femoral vein is and how close it is to the artery (some big nerves are kicking about there also I believe), but just curious about the neck. Same issue with an artery perhaps?
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The problem with injecting in the neck is down to blood pressure afaik. Or embolisms. Quite possibly both. Problem with groin is more to do with clotting I think. There's also the closeness of the femoral artery as you mention which you really don't want to poke with sharp things. I've known plenty people who've used both but I also know of plenty people who did a lot of damage - particularly with the groin. I've heard horror stories from use of veins in the neck but not anybody I've known personally. I must admit I don't know all of the details but I do know those are the two sites that are generally considered to be highest risk and very much to be avoided if at all possible.
 
Cheers Shambles - I'd read on here a few times that they were to be avoided but didn't actually know why.
 
I have two mates who injected 'done gloop into their necks - one had a stroke. Groin injecting is relatively safe if you know what you are doing IF being the relevent word its between an artery and a nerve but id as thick as your middle finger, i've known people using it for years BUT eventually you will get a DVT or worse. I have been tempted many times biut its a line i wont cross as i dont want to lose a leg and I know that once ive done it once i would use it daily.
 
I must admit I was sorely tempted when most users I knew had gotten down to having the groin as their only realistic option of hitting a vein. Those permaholes are not such a good look but they are rather enticing on the speed and ease of access once you've created one. I'd always thought actual holes were just a Hollywood thing to make it look nastier than it is but they really do happen with groin injecting in particular. Not entirely dissimilar to my elbow pit I suppose. Only hopefully less rancid.

I think regularly watching people use their groin made me think about what I was doing and where things were headed more than anything had in a long time. It really did feel like a line once crossed would be very hard indeed to come back from. I'm glad I chose to stay this side of the line but can totally understand why people make the other choice. Once you do know what you're doing it is the gift that keeps on giving compared to other veins. At least it must seem that way when you first start using it. Have heard several people say precisely that - 'If only I'd tried this before - so quick and easy - hit it every time'. You know what they say about things that seem too good to be true...
 
royalp said:
On the subject of drugs do you think injecting is much more powerful in terms of dragging you into an addiction?
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No, far from it. In my view & experience your deep into addiction before you shoot anyway

I have never injected anything, never will for the reason i believe it will push me over edge from the occasional use to addiction.
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Best stay away then if your own mind you link it with pushing things over the edge.
 
Leda said:
No, far from it. In my view & experience your deep into addiction before you shoot anyway
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Whilst I would agree that you're usually a fair way down the road before going in for needles that's not always necessarily the case. I was still very early on in my heroin use - was using opies daily but mostly still sticking to various cough mixtures (primarily Gee's (opium tincture = yum <3) and codeine linctus (easy to acquire OTC back then)) and using heroin fairly regularly but not really daily and was really quite lightly addicted in the grand scheme. It was more because I just wanted to know what it felt like. Wanted the "full-on" heroin experience. Had been fascinated by it since the first time I saw a friend inject heroin back when he'd just give me the occasional line to chase when he'd come visit and use my place as a hideyhole so his g/f didn't catch him at it.

I remember getting tingles and chills up and down my spine watching him out the corner of my eye whilst he prepped and injected into the back of his hand. It looked so very exotic and exciting and forbidden. Was really very appealing to me back then when I was of a distinctly nihilistic nature with every intention of living fast and dying young. I accepted the chance of being shot up by a friend first time it was offered maybe a year or so after first seeing somebody doing it. My use most definitely spiralled after that and I wanted the needle as often as possible so quickly acquired the necessaries and started practising. I know I would've ended up going that route sooner or later but it was sooner for me and definitely sped up my descent into major addiction territory.
 
Well shambles I am one of the most nihilist people there is, the first time I shot up I had been on Heroin 8/9 years, I had watched people shoot up many times & felt sick from it & said I would never, ever go down that road. Watching someone drop their jeans & dig around with a 2ml for 20mins, hitting a nerve & screaming, shooting a really small bit into the femoral artery etc (you get the picture I am sure) made me feel very sick.

The first time I went IV I couldn't watch & had to have someone else do it for me many times, in fact out of all my shots I have done it twice myself out of several hundred by todays point. I have no veins left but refuse to go upto shooting into my groin, I know it's a lot more easy than digging around in the arm etc but I guess we are just coming from different ends on this subject. I am just giving my view on the OP comments, after all that is what a forum/message board is for.
 
Don't think we're coming from especially different viewpoints at all really. If you read my earlier posts I mention that I couldn't watch when I was first injected due to chronic needle-phobia. It's true I got over that pretty quickly but a large part of that was pure selfishness - I objected to having to share my gear every time I wanted a dig so got over my phobia and taught myself how to do it.

It's a shame you've lost all your veins even with other people doing the injecting. That's poor form on their part. I used to earn my daily requirements of both heroin and crack by being an on-call "doctor" to the dealers. They'd call me to inject them when they were past the point of being able to do it themselves due to damage. I'm apparently rather good at it. Shame I had to destroy so many of my own veins before I got the hang of it really :!
 
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