What do you think of the needle?

[brimz]

It's a big problem is overuse of citric. Drug info and needle exchange places really should be giving out far more advice about how little you actually need to break down gear. The fact they put a shitload in each sachet can't help - most people I've known presume that's some kinda measured amount that's that way because it's what you need - like one sachet per bag. I've seen many people cooking up a big spoonful of citric with a dash of heroin. I've always tried to explain but some people will just insist that it must be right cos that's what they give you to use with the depressingly obvious suggestion that clearly my gear is shitty and that's why I don't need as much.

When my veins started getting really bad (they weren't good to start off with) and injecting became excruciatingly painful I started to look at the citric amounts on the basis that it was acid and it burned when I injected so maybe there was a connection. Trial and error got me down to just a few grains per hit - 1/4 sachet seems way too much to me and is a lot more than I ever used once I started experimenting to find what the minimum amount actually required was. I would advise anybody who uses citric to firstly try to get Vit C powder instead if possible as it seems far gentler on veins (although you do need a fairly large amount of it compared to citric - still not huge amounts though) but if citric is the only option try with just a few grains, add a lil heat and you can see if it's enough and add a few more if necessary. I suspect most would be surprised at how little you can get away with - it really surprised me and I dearly wish somebody had told me this early on so I didn't destroy quite so many veins quite so quickly. Still to this day I get intense pain on the (very) rare occasions I inject stuff that's even slightly acidic IV.

Where u say 1/4 a sachet is way to much 4 what ?

I take it u mean the example I gave where I quoted a .2 ?
You been out the game to long mate. For a start , I defy anyone to get the full 100mgs out of one of dem tings .

I reckon on avg. u loose about half .

U keep saying grains as we'll mate , that's old skool cit like the cooking stuff which is Fukin murder or the BP stuff .
The stuff in the yellow sachets is a fine powder n it is actually yellow .

U need at least 25 msg to break a .2 if you r in a hurry n Heroin addicts usually are !


Also u haven't even mentioned anything about different gear being easier to break down "............

Needle fixation is ann addictive thing thats for sure - i would shoot snything i could break down into a solution including mogadon and valium even thoiugh neither are water soluble - or barely. With citric , when i first started using needle exchanges didn't have it so we use to get a pot and i was always really careful how much oi put in as i didnt want those orrible lumpy itchy bumps that would come up.Vit c is deffo the way to go- for my 1st year it was lemon juice and u only needed a few drops last time i had to use it i needed more juice than water - so fuck knows what in the gear now (this was PD).

Shooting Moggys n Valium tablets. R u Fukin dinlo ?


I thought mixing Methadone amps with cyc was bad , we'll actually it's really good but still , Moggys Fukin ell ....

P.S

No disrespect to either of ya but Harm Reduction

 

[sinclair1984]

without a doubt.

 

[maxalfie]

1/4 sachet seems way too much to me

Yes a 1/4 of a sachet is far too much to use.I said a quarter of what i used out of the sachet would hace sufficed, not a 1/4 of a whole sachet, that much would fucking burn.

 

[Shambles]

If you'd asked me a decade ago I could've given the exact number of grains I used per shot - I was gobsmacked at how little was actually required. As mentioned below, there are various factors that will affect the amount required but at that time (actually for several years and countless batches) I needed the very tiniest of pinches. A single sachet of citric could last me a week at times.

Where u say 1/4 a sachet is way to much 4 what ?

Good point - I was being a bit vague. Too much for any dig I ever had. Obviously there is variation from batch to batch and on how much gear you are using per hit. I did suggest people start with a very small amount (literally a few grains was almost always enough for me when I was using) and add a bit more if required after heating for a moment. There's no way to tell somebody how much to use without actually seeing the gear and how it reacts - I was just suggesting that most people would likely be surprised at how much more they were using than is necessary but of course there are a number of factors involved and you're right pointing out that I didn't mention any of them. I'd still say the general point that most people are probably using more than is actually necessary remains. I base that on the sheer number of people I've seen using ridiculous amounts and I very much doubt things have changed that much cos info on citric still isn't really out there - it's not where I am certainly.

 

[maxalfie]

I have seen a video before where they demonstrated just how little citric is needed to break down gear, it may have even been on Bluelight that i first watched it. I much preferred the Vit C sachets as it was less harsh on the veins but it required more to break down the gear fully.

 

[Shambles]

Vit C felt much gentler on veins to me. I could use that without burning pains which were a real problem for me when I used citric and what prompted me to see how far back I could cut it whilst retaining effectiveness. Turned out I could cut it back quite some considerable amount. A relative shitload actually. Was really quite annoyed at how much unnecessary acid I'd been injecting and burning out all my veins in the process.

 

[maxalfie]

Agreed Shambles,you can get away with using far less citric tthan you think you would need.I think you said earlier that folk seem to think that the sachet is like the correct 'dose' for breaking down a bag when in reality it is much more than you need. Would be a good thing if they could provide smaller sachets or at least educate people on how little is actually required. Nobody ever told me, i had to find out through trial & error.
Next time i see my keyworker i shall ask her if they do tell people now about how much citric to use to break down gear and if they don't then i'll suggest that it would be a good idea to give folk that information, after all it is good harm reduction info.

 

[Shambles]

I'm sure I was given a reason - or so it mentioned somewhere - why they put such a large amount in each sachet. Can't for the life of me recall what it was though so presume it didn't impress enough to register. I can see how it could be difficult to give out precise info on how much is required for the reasons Brimz gave but I do think they should emphasise the fact you should be using the absolute minimum to break down your gear and that unless you're cooking grammes at a time you won't need anywhere close to a full sachet. Have seen several people just dump the whole lot in the spoon and whilst some of those agreed to try it with less to see if it they really did need that amount (clearly they didn't but old habits and all that) some really did seem to think that it was that amount per sachet because that is how much you needed - seemed to be a belief that it somehow "sterilised" gear so you wouldn't get infections from it which was kinda worrisome (not a common belief afaik but have heard it said). I do think drug services could give more info about citric and how much damage it can cause over the years. Have seen one or two leaflets now and then but never a concerted effort or any sustained campaign to get the info across to all. I think it should be a standard info leaflet that comes in swap packs with all the others. Perhaps it is in some places but doesn't seem to be much consistency around the country.

 

[Nicklazz]

I don't get the needle thing, and even more I don't get the analez RoA :D.

Smoke/Vap, Oral & snort should be plenty. Just do more drug if ya have too.

Take care everyone tho' that does the needle

 

[brimz]

I'm sure I was given a reason - or so it mentioned somewhere - why they put such a large amount in each sachet. Can't for the life of me recall what it was though so presume it didn't impress enough to register. I can see how it could be difficult to give out precise info on how much is required for the reasons Brimz gave but I do think they should emphasise the fact you should be using the absolute minimum to break down your gear and that unless you're cooking grammes at a time you won't need anywhere close to a full sachet. Have seen several people just dump the whole lot in the spoon and whilst some of those agreed to try it with less to see if it they really did need that amount (clearly they didn't but old habits and all that) some really did seem to think that it was that amount per sachet because that is how much you needed - seemed to be a belief that it somehow "sterilised" gear so you wouldn't get infections from it which was kinda worrisome (not a common belief afaik but have heard it said). I do think drug services could give more info about citric and how much damage it can cause over the years. Have seen one or two leaflets now and then but never a concerted effort or any sustained campaign to get the info across to all. I think it should be a standard info leaflet that comes in swap packs with all the others. Perhaps it is in some places but doesn't seem to be much consistency around the country.

End of the day u get 10 sachets of cit n 10 of Vit c in a standard Opiate pack together with a sin bin , 20 swabs a leaflet on basic 1st aid if someone is unfortunate enough to Od oh n a Condom .

That is what we get in my area from any chemist that participates in the Xchange scheme .

You can also get a Steroid pack as well that contains

10 long blue break off needles & 10 long greens n 20 2ml Barrels no condom ! But it does have the swabs

. Obviously as it is a roid pack it is designed with IM in mind but for folk that go deep vein, not something I suggest but end of the day people do , in fact I read that the South West has a nasty claim to fame . The most Femoral injectors per capita in the WORLD

Final word on acids .
IME it is always better practice to use Vit c were ever possible . The only time I may use the cit is for a snowball even then I use Vit c , sometimes man dem has no choice as such but that's another thing .......


I suggest that maybe other posters could do what I have n give a run down on what they get from the Xchange in there area ?

That is a good idea. No ?

One more thing .

If one requires more specialist injecting equipment then u will have to visit the local Needle Exchange u can find it by simply using a search engine .

In my city n most of ya know where that is we can get foil among a whole host of Harm reduction n money saving things .

There u go Harm Reduction post of the week !

Another idea 4 you , a Harm Reduction post of the week winner gets a Crunchie bar .

 

[Shambles]

Another idea 4 you , a Harm Reduction post of the week winner gets a Crunchie bar .

Hmm... I actually can't stand Crunchies - they make my teeth hurt and I never did like honeycomb. Have made it a few times cos is kinda kewl stuff to make. Nearer chemistry than cooking. We'll take your Crunchie suggestion under consideration

That's kinda nuts the thing about most femoral injectors per capita. Wonder why that would be? I know Bristol in particular is known as a druggy town but so are plenty other UK cities. I guess maybe not has heavily populated as some of the other big cities and got plenty rural areas. It's a claim to fame but perhaps not one anybody would really want to have.

I'm actually not sure what comes in swap packs here at the moment cos they changed policy and won't send them through the post any more so not gotten one far ages now and hardly ever use needles anyway now. Now and again but got given a shitload of stuff just before they stopped sending them out. I asked for samples of every type of equipment they have cos I wanted them for an art project I was doing and she came back with a couple carrierbags full of stuff. Mostly samples they get sent so not all of it is actually available - depends what they decide is most important to spend limited budgets on. I did use those... what they called... like micron filters (probably are micron filters actually) that you stick on the end of an IM-type barrel and filter solution through. Not actually sure what they're generally used for - IM afaik but presumably intended for pharms or steroids cos can't imagine they'd be suggesting anybody IMs street drugs. They're kinda like not-quite-as-good-as-proper-micron-filters micron filters. Better than using cig filters though I'd presume.

 

[blondin]

round here you get eiter a 1ml or 2ml pack, x10 spikes (cant remember how many barrells with the 2ml, 10 sachets, 10 swabs,2 jonnies (but never use them so dont know for sure) and a bin and a leaflet on HR.

micron's are good if yer shooting pills

 

[Shambles]

I was injecting RCs IM so microns would also be the best option there. Certainly better than cig filters anyway. Need to look into sterilising of powders and/or solutions though. Microns will help but not sure they'd cut it in all possible scenarios - they're more for particulate matter than bacteria or viruses, no? Not sure how small the filter size goes down to. Should look into that actually cos might come in sizes that would essentially sterilise what's in the barrel once filtered. Unless I'm misunderstanding them which is entirely possible.

 

[blondin]

......any idea how smal a bacterium is ? no filter will stop that getting thro

 

[Shambles]

Micron filters are used to remove bacteria from drinking water aren't they? They do come in sizes small enough to remove bacteria (that's a somewhat random linky - there's plenty info out there for anybody wishing to find out for themselves) but not sure how available for injection purposes they are or how practical they are to use (have heard of people using ultrafine micron filters but are hard to use apparently cos it's a struggle getting water to go through them let alone anything else).

 

[misplaced energy]

Personally needles don't bother me, I can watch people inject and I've often wondered what it would be like but never took the dive as I'd probably end up hooked. Watching my friend try for an hour to find a vein doesn't appeal one bit though. The guy is careless. Each to their own.

 

[Shambles]

Watching my friend try for an hour to find a vein doesn't appeal one bit though. The guy is careless.

I doubt he's careless. Desperate and addicted perhaps. Maybe careless in younger times too. Digging into flesh for an hour just to get drugs into your system is not a careless act - it's very deliberate and generally a sign that things aren't going too well and it is a route soon to be closed off to that person.